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Yessssirrrrreeeeee.
Agreed, and I wonder the same sometimes why he has not moved more aggressively in allowing the docs to see the light of day.
E X A C T L Y. Lol
You can bet Trump wants to admit in court that the Obama administration did something wrong .... (NWS)
Yep....that's the truth.
Crap! Why so high short on fnma?
I agree, JPS won't get canned.
Sorry for confusion....
I was trying to make a point about what MC "says"versus what happens and the vagueness of that HERA clause that the poster Kthompson was basing his argument onwith you. My point being MC can say might, maybe, possibly or may all day, but the proof is in the pudding and MC will not be doing an IPO, he will appoint if necessary and determine, as that clause can be interpreted.
These guys gotta quit getting hung up on vague legal statements in HERA. They write the laws vague and with ambiguity on purpose so that the enforcers of the law or the interpreters of the laws (judges), can have their say in how they view it and what it means.
There ya go! That's too much common sense, you'll scare the baJesus out of the pref posse.
Yanksghost and commons gang
Released under consent decree, MC says to new bod, hey you guys, you need more capital. New bod says, okay, we are gonna cancel prefs.
The law says he can require this...does it mean it's going to happen? Maybe, maybe not. Does it mean MC will do it personally, no. Could a new bod be involved, sure. Will the new lawyers and financial advisors be involved? Most likely.
Some folks read things literally unless it doesn't fit their narrative, then they use circular echo logic. Lol
(3) Acquisition of new capital
Require the regulated entity to acquire new capital in a form and amount determined by the Director.
In my mind it's this order, but I could definitely be misordering a few things:
1 Capital rule
2 relist
3 court cases, warrants,and seniors (I'm thinking all three of these will be in play at once since they each affect each others outcome.
Minimum capital requirement attained (or possibly more) after settlement of court cases, seniors and warrants.
4 bod shareholder elected. Probably one or two bod members will be fhfa appointed.
5 Either naturally released or via consent decree, depends on courts, etc.
6 1to2 years in, if certain cap requirement is not met through earnings, then more commons or pref's issued. Hopefully GSE's will be able to buy the higher interest bearing prefs and issue lower one's, there by helping capital build more. If capital is not at whatever the rule says 2 years out, only then does bod do a commons offering. By 2 years out fnma commons are in the $25-50 range, new shares knock back stock price the same percentage as percent shares issued. If housing takes off in the next 2 years, which I think it definitely will, then no issue of commons will be necessary.
If we get released or relisted before the election and Trump beats Handsy Bidden, that should be good for a $1-3 jump at the time, depending how far along we are.
7 Jps.....I really think they/most all bought because of Obama administration chanting non-stop about winding down the GSE'S, and bought into that scenario. So now, since direct claims are moot, I think they have but one thing to hold for and that is for the interest payments to turn back on our maybe par somehow. That could be possible 2 years out if housing flies, like I think it will.
JPS have no direct claims...they will have to sit on their investment and wait until their interest gets turned back on. While common share price appreciates due to derivative claims.
That to tough for ya to digest junior?
All these pref holders saying MC will do a capital raise IPO are true idiots. MC doing this amounts to Warren Buffett running a coney Island. The financial advisers will be letting MC and SM know what steps to follow, and I'm sure that step number 1 is not a capital raise. They won't be bothered with that when a BOD is perfectly capable of handling it. SM and MC have other things they will be needing to do.
Pref logic is if they (SM or MC) say they "may" or "its possible", it becomes God given law and they will personally be doing it.
This is speaking power to truth! A great quote....thanks
This is the simple fact stated beautifully that JPS can not wrap their heads around.
This, to me, explains Judge Sweeney's strong push back on direct claims, more of which I expect shortly. Deritive claims level the playing field between competing classes of shareholders and is the court's way of neutralizing the competing claims of JPS vs. the world.
For sure! I hope she spits her dentures.
It called fairy dust! Liberally applied and used for pref holders logic.
Shhhhhhh, you'll scare the pref's out of their wits.
My take on pref conversion to common is a non issue:
-if indeed all direct claims denied, no legal route for any conversion, it becomes a government decision, with they have little incentive to make.
-Government is charged with "preserving and conserving assets", a conversion would be giving away company assets and would create dilution chaos, so no new investors would want in if government allows share dilution via conversion.
-The government has absolutely no reason to make pref's or commons happy or whole, its been said. The only way this happens is via the conservator doing his job. Commons will benefit indirectly through share value increase, pref's only return to their interest payment if turned on later, when the companies meet their capital rule and other guidelines set by conservator. Courts will have affect on commons way more than prefs. (TBD)
-pref logic that the conservator and courts need to settle with them first and foremost does not hold any water in the restructuring taking place, only in liquidation do they get preferential treatment, hence the securities name, preferred's.
-pref's are in denial that their shares are dependent upon the actual overall health of the business. This is why interest on pref's can be withheld until determined AFTER the corporations are put into sound solvent condition.
-Commons benefit as the company moves forward, not directly (unless courts rule this way somehow), but derivatively as the business builds and prospers. Common Shares are speculative, which are priced based on investor perceived value. If pref's are perceived to be "on hold" for whatever amount of time, for their interest payments, the security will be priced accordingly by the market. If commons are perceived to have upwards potential, then the market will price accordingly.
Neither pref's or commons will have any direct impact on each other if this conservatorship is done correctly. They had no impact on each other going into it. Both are very different in their use and treatment by companies.
So, conversion has about as much chance as liquidation.
All my honest opinion.
Found this on the end of 2007 10k
As reported in a current report on Form 8-K filed with the SEC on November 21, 2007, we issued 20 million
shares of 7.625% Rate Non-Cumulative Preferred Stock, Series R, with an aggregate stated value of
$500 million, on November 21, 2007. As reported in a current report on Form 8-K filed with the SEC on
December 20, 2007, we issued an additional 1.2 million shares of Series R Preferred Stock, with an aggregate
stated value of $30 million, on December 14, 2007.
As reported in a current report on Form 8-K filed with the SEC on December 11, 2007, we issued 280 million
shares of Fixed-to-Floating Rate Non-Cumulative Preferred Stock, Series S, with an aggregate stated value of
$7 billion, on December 11, 2007.
Could be why these pref guys here are so bent, bought in just before gov takeover.
I don't understand how they could even do/file for a direct claim in court? They get paid interest IF the companies are doing well, which by the governments play on words abandoned numbers says the GSE'S are struggling (yeah right), anyway, their interst payments got canned and it is in all the Gov pref circulars that they are non cumulative, SOOL (S___ out off luck). Their only other direct claim would be if bankruptcy, which some pref dreamers have been pushing, but ain't gonna happen.
I really think all these guys bought believing the Obama admin's insistence on winding them down and these guys were salivating a big pay day, while us commons were all going through bottles of Rolaids.
Now, the clown shoes are on the other feet.lmao
Absolutely. Trump wants the tails pinned on the appropriate donkeys. He does not like taking blame at all for others major screw ups. Hoping the documents...at least a couple, are thrown into the light.
Mrfence
I don't have private reply option, so, just wanted to say yeah, fully agree with the clown shoes comment. Lol
Irks me wheen BS is thrown out as fact.
KT right now talking about 100billion plus reipo....he's never heard of minimum capital requirement for release under consent decree. So any scheme for capital raise needed later can be determined by bod.
pref's are going to be screaming mad when they finally realize the conservator has no obligation to them. They are not paying attention to this whole servicers issue. SM and MC are protecting conserving GSE assets, as it should be. So, pref's thinking they are going to walk off into the sunset with this huge piece of GSE cake while commons and the company suffer, is just plain nonsense and wrong.
It's called KARMA. lol
Wrong - FNMA has traded above 6 while in conservatorship.
Get your facts right, or people will think you're bullshyting.
Pretty good resolution. Letting servicers know: "if you play, you pay"
Next time around there will be even far fewer scam loans hopefully
Loves his circular reasoning echo chamber.
Argues commons are not worth salt one day and the next argues 10X common to preff conversion. For someone who constantly rails against commons, he sure wants the conversion for some reason. Lol
I really, really want to see those documents...
The ones that incriminate Paulson, Geithner, Bernanke, BO.
They would save investors and courts a ton of time and grief,in my opinion.
The GSE's need to be disinfected of the conservator virus.
Me also
See post 605599
Added link to my previous post. Oops. Lol
Typical pref class government offering circular, interesting reading. Pref holders probably never read the below areas?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.fanniemae.com/resources/file/ir/pdf/stock-info/seriesm.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi8uMWl2fnoAhVIaM0KHaodB-sQFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw29TOtegMFcZDHHWeoPPxj5
See:h
Pg4 preemptive and conversion rights.
Pg13 top of page
Pg14 last paragraph
Pg15 3rd sentence
Pg17 last paragraph
MC does not need to be helping servicers or those defaulting. Let them pay their MORAL HAZARD DUES. Services living like it's 2006-2008 all over again and crying wolf.
Yes, me also. Some of the points in that doc are valid.
Why was this post of mine removed for being off topic?
I understand completely. The recap happens via the courts via derivative claims and finding that all or most of the backdoor dealings that were done to steal all the GSE's wealth will be reversed. Boom! Recap. Maybe not entirely....maybe minimum core capital required is hit, depends on how mean courts wanna get....so they withhold dividends from commons and interest from pref's until they are at full capitalization. Possibly a small stock offering or, as this will be a few years down the road, by then the pref's paying high interest will be dirt cheap, the GSE's can buy back as much as they can and reissue lower interest bearing prefs to raise additional capital.
I am very skeptical that the courts are going to find direct claims for pref's and back interest,,AND a swap for commons. Talk to KT, he runs the commons posters down all day yet he says 10 to possibly 30 commons per a pref share, lmao. If what he says is true and he beleives that and that commons have no upside, then he is in a catch 22 along with other nonsense posters.
Warren Buffett got the hell out of Dodge GSE way back - ya know why? His pref's were non cumulative then and they still are today. You probably own some of what he had.
He did a Ben Graham analysis of the GSE'S pref's situation and he and Munger both said "lets bail"
This is true....but no reason it can not be fixed and righted with a bit of time.
Sticky please!
It is sad....
I have a feeling they will push and post like mad for receivership now. I know that's a non starter at this point and with how things are. Don't be surprised if you see a pref's class action in the future.