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Yes, I'm sure. Investopedia is incorrect. Here's the scoop from the IRS
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p536/ar02.html#en_US_2010_publink1000177389
See the 4th bullet: How to claim a net operating deduction.
Your new shares will have the same holding period and tax basis as your previous shares. No taxable gain until you sell your new shares.
That is not correct zeus. The nol is deducted from the income for the year, then the result is multiplied by the tax rate, 35% for simplicity. In this example, the NOL can be used in 1 year.
Taxable income before NOL 15 million
NOL carryover -10 million
Taxable income after NOL 5 million
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Carrying this further:
Tax on 15 million would be 5.25 million
Tax on 5 million would be -1.75 million
Tax savings due to NOL 3.5 million
Value of 10 million nol is 3.5 million (10 million x 35%)
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Dont' be stubborn. I'm right on this one. LOL
There are always people who don't open their mail. Or if they open their mail, they won't understand it and won't vote or opt in to the releases. They will lose.
Many of us own shares in multiple WMI classes and in various ownership categories (individual, corporate, IRA, Roth, 401(k)). Each class and each ownership will get ballots. People may think they already voted and "what should I do with the other ballots. Will I get in trouble if I vote again". Yes, vote all your ballots and no, you won't get in trouble.
We, IMO, are ALL "above average" in intelligence, even if we are not all from Minnesota. Do you remember the mass confusion on the board regarding how to vote, where to send the ballots, and the significance of opting in or out during the 2 previous balloting? Some were leaving the option blank and writing in the margins to ensure some nefarious person at our brokerage firm doesn't check the box for them. And we were to mail the ballots in "the enclosed envelope" and none of us had the enclosed envelope. And the instructions said to mail the ballots to KCCLLC, but KCCLLC said not to mail it to them, mail it to the brokers who will tally the votes send the master ballot to KCCLLC. I'm glad we have that figured out for this time.
And the ballots came promptly for some, but many were delayed depending on the broker. My broker is Fidelity and I had just a few days to vote and mail. Fortunately someone posted their ballot and instructions on this board so we had lead time to figure out what to do. The main issue was whether to opt in or out of the releases. This time it seems clear to me how to vote. Most will be voting to Accept and opting IN to allow the release to most who screwed WMI. If one does not opt in, they will be free to sue the crooks on their own dime. Good luck with that one.
As you know, the EC letter states that shareholders must opt-in on the release issue to get a distribution. They don't have to vote. There may be a provision for a late opt-in but I can't say for sure.
Sorry byrd, you are wrong. A NOL is not a credit. A credit is dollar-for-dollar. But a NOL is a deduction and it is worth 35% against the tax.............I'm assuming the company's federal tax rate is 35%. So a $10 million NOL is worth $3.5 million.
Would anyone pay $3.5 million today for future value of $3.5 million? A buyer may wish to negotiate some lower amount.........lets call it a discount.
The ballots have not been mailed, relax oh nervous ones....The judge must approve the DS first, then we have a confirmation hearing probably in January, then the ballots will be printed and distributed. Just don't be late.
PS, we should receive the DS, POR and letters from EC, CC, and Debtors to start the process. The info should be on a disk like before.
What it says is one must grant the releases to get a distribution. It's a separate line on the ballot as before. Remember that most of us left the check box blank on the last ballot?
I suppose someone could not vote, but check to the box to grant the release...........may as well vote as well.
Articles of Incorporation: On page 3 of the EC letter, there is a reference to the proposed Articles of Incorporation of the Reorganized Debtor which was filed with the Plan Supplement documents.
I've been unable to locate this in the POR. Can anyone give me a pdf page reference? Thanks in advance. I have a meeting I'm off to.
If Ps are getting a better deal, there is still time to buy them. Just saying.
This has been covered........the pink (OTC) trading is not done on an exchange or organized market.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=70058989
Reminder: there are 2 debtors in this bankruptcy, Washington Mutual Inc and WMI Investment Company.. This is stated in every court filing usually in a footnote on the first page.
Of course, this is NOT a reference to Newco.
Some think we won't trade for a while due to restrictions on stock trading to preserve the NOLs. However, that doesn't apply to those of us who are WAY under the 5% stock ownership level. I've managed to keep my share count comfortably under the 5% level. LOL
Read this regarding exchange or organized market:
http://www.allbusiness.com/glossaries/over-counter-otc/4949106-1.html
If it won't be traded on an exchange or organized market, it will likely be traded on the OTC, aka pink sheets, as it is now. The DS does not say otherwise.
Note: this is my first use of color in 3 years. This is for those to are reading challenged or won't read the DS, sorry.
IMO, you are right, sometimes right. The language seems clear to me. The new company will not be traded on "any national securities exchange or other organized trading market". None of the WMI securities are now trading on a national securities exchange or other organized trading market. Our securities are traded on the OTC thanks to the MMs. Millions of shares of WAMU flavors are traded each day.
The DS does, however, restrict the sale of Newco's stock by greater than 5% owners. I think I'm safe in assuming that none of use owns greater than 5%...........so everyone relax.
As to the 300 share issue, I'm sure that, with the totality of the classes of WMI, we are way above that limit. This should be a non-issue, IMO.
I'm glad this was brought up though. I was getting bored with the posts lately.
http://www.allbusiness.com/glossaries/over-counter-otc/4949106-1.html
http://thediligentinvestor.blogspot.com/2011/12/dime-ltws-join-wamu-mediation-fray.html
Thanks to hurtrhino on the dimeq board.
http://thediligentinvestor.blogspot.com/2011/12/dime-ltws-join-wamu-mediation-fray.html
Thanks to hurtrhino on the dimeq board.
And where would WE be if MW didn't have a profit motivation. The only reason I bought these shares was due to a PROFIT MOTIVATION. Long live the vultures..... even if we only get to eat the crumbs. The crumbs will be mighty tasty.....LOL
We should have carryover tax basis AND carryover holding period.
http://www.fool.com/personal-finance/taxes/how-to-calculate-a-holding-period.aspx
Stock splits and spinoffs: If you receive a stock dividend, your holding period for the "new" shares is the same as for the "old" shares. This is also true if you receive new stock in a company that has been spun off from the original company that you purchased.
For example, Jack purchased 100 shares of stock in April 2006. In June 2007, the company declared a 100% stock dividend, also known as a 2-for-1 stock split. Jack now has 200 shares of the company stock, but they all have the same holding period -- starting with the date of original purchase back in April 2006.
Here's another example. Using the same facts as above, let's assume that instead of declaring a stock dividend, the company spun off a subsidiary. Jack receives an additional 30 shares of the new company in January 2008. Even though these are brand-new shares in a brand-new company, they will have the same holding period as the original shares that were purchased back in April 2006.
There are other tricks and turns regarding holding periods. These are only the common rules, and they by no means cover every holding-period situation. So if you find yourself in the middle of an unusual transaction, check the holding-period rules carefully. The tax dollars you save might be your own.
Just hold them. It's automatic. You are not required to vote.
Forest, look at it differently. Perhaps all the PQ shareholders believe their shares are not worth selling at this level. The market, at this point, is us. And we won't sell at this level. Someone has to sell for someone else to buy.
Zilla, I was so disgusted that I added 200 sh today. I'll show them!!! LOL
Incorrect. If you own it, you're in.
No, it's the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil. In other words, it's greed.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_meaning_of_the_phrase_'Money_is_the_root_cause_of_all_evil'
Joe513, you don't post often, but when you do, you certainly get to the heart of the matter. It's a pleasure to read posts of clear thinkers. Your words are right on.
Compare Susman billing to Weil & others Oct. billing??
Does anyone have the time to compare Susman's billing (focusing on the settlement word) with Weil and others billings (focusing on the XXXXXXXXXXXX notation?? This could make for some very interesting reading.
Compare Susman billing to Weil & others Oct. billing??
Does anyone have the time to compare Susman's billing (focusing on the settlement word) with Weil and others billings (focusing on the XXXXXXXXXXXX notation?? This could make for some very interesting reading.
Agreed. Susman & Co. knows exactly what they are doing by presenting such wonderful detail. They know people are reading their billings. They know exactly what the effect would be by using "settlement" so many times. And we know that WE latch on to the word even if it is mentioned ONCE in a billing period. LOL
That's right. And no redactions or XXXXXX!
It probably felt like a vacation to Folse..............seeing great progress.
Catz, have you noticed that certain people post, on average, 1 post every 1 to 6 minutes?
Your posts are always meaty. I appreciate your fine work.
This would be .139 per share.
I believe she said sue us right away aftr this is over to get it over with so we can move forward.
Does Folse bill for these emails?
The judge said she would address the billing issues at the end. She said this in open court..I don't have the date.
Voo, now that makes sense. Consider though that attorneys in my area charge a minimum of .2 hour even if it's just phone tag.
voo, why don't you phone BR or send an email. Then we'll see your name on the billing statement. That's what attorneys do. Bill for everything.
On second thought, don't contact him. We can't afford it. LOL.
11/04/11 Mediation status report only per the calendar
Thanks ptolomeo. This is EXACTLY why I switched to almost entirely PQs. When my PQs get paid in full, then my UQs should be paid.
How many times do we have to go through this? Thanks for taking the time to do the calculation.
I REALLY want PQs paid in full and any decent amount to UQs.
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