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Old Bottle Bourbon Flavor
In my lifetime I have tasted from many bottles of Bourbon that were 50 or more years old – not the Bourbon but the bottling. These whiskeys taste different from today’s products of the same name. The question is why? What makes these old bottles taste different? Let us look at the six sources of flavor and see what we can find out.
Grain: The grain used before the 1940s was not hybrid grain. This could be a source of the flavor change as corn and rye have gotten sweeter and produce a higher yields. The older distillery practices may also have used more white corn versus yellow or a combination of the two types. The distillers also did not have the ability to use enzymes in the mash so they had to use more malt to get their conversion of starch to sugar.
Water: More distilleries today depend upon reverse osmosis to clean their water from the city water system than having their own source of well or spring water. This water was used not only for making the mash but also when cutting the whiskey to proof when bottling the Bourbon. The lack of mineral content in the water because of this technology may be changing the source of the flavor in the whiskey.
Fermentation: Distilleries of today have a better understanding of the science of microbiology and do a better job of preserving their yeast strain than was possible a hundred years ago. Yeast mutations of that period probably took longer to be noticed. Wooden fermenting vats were also harder to keep clean and there may have been more bacteria influences on the whiskey. These will change the flavor profile as well.
Distillation: There is much more use of stainless steel in the modern distillery. The stills of a century ago were copper – a lot of copper. Copper distillation was a selling point for the whiskey so the distilleries used copper in every way possible. Many distilleries also distilled at a lower proof – usually between 120 and 130, allowing for more grain flavor in the whiskey.
Maturation: Barrel entry proof was between 90 and 105 proof for much of the period up to the 1960s. This lower barrel proof had a big impact on the flavor of the whiskey. It also meant that less water was added to the final product at bottling. Many people mention old growth wood for barrels as a factor, but I think not because older oak trees do not make good barrel staves so most staves are cut from trees between 70 and 90 years of age now and most likely then as well. A bigger factor to me would be the environment as air and water quality changed affecting the flavors held in the oak. Barrel size has also changed from a 48 gallon barrel to a 53 gallon barrel. Less surface contact of wood to whiskey today. Barrels also got rotated and moved more in the old days as the government guager came in and spot checked barrels for fill level.
Bottling: There are many more efficient ways to filter whiskey today than there were a century ago. This means more flavor is being removed from the final product. The water used to cut to proof was usually the distilled version of their water source and probably was not a completely neutral flavor.
All of these changes to the sources of flavor have had an impact on the flavor in the bottle. The big unknown is how much impact that time in the bottle has had on the flavor. While many people have said that whiskey quits aging once it is in the bottle, it does not mean that it quits changing. I believe that over time there will be some small changes in the bottle as seals begin to fail and air gets into the equation. This is a slow change, but a change none the less.
Old bottles of whiskey do taste different from modern whiskey, I have listed many reasons for this change here but I am sure that have missed others. Enjoy those old bottles when you find them, but remember that the whiskey on the shelf today will be someone’s dusty bottle fifty years from now and they may asking the same question as today: “why does this Bourbon taste different from what is my bottle today?”
https://bourbonveach.com/2016/10/03/old-bottle-bourbon-flavor/
Don't recall if I posted Michael Veach's piece before.
And I'm sure you will be watching all the coverage....
Oooooh. Methinks I would like that rum finish Jeffersons.
Thanks for posting FUN!
FUN, I think the bottles on the right have a picture of you with a wig.
On how Scotch whiskey is made:
This is part of Whisky Wisdom—a series of tips and interesting tidbits about the world of Johnnie Walker.
The making of Scotch Whisky is an ancient craft that has been developed and refined over time from a cottage industry into a precision process.
Many things affect the final flavor and character of a whisky, from the type of grains and yeast used, to the shape of the still (apparatus used for distillation), to the cask and length of time the liquid is matured in it.
Here is a simple walkthrough of the basics in making a true Scotch Whisky:
Malting Process
I. In order to make alcohol, the starches found in cereal must be converted into sugars. So, hot water is added until the cereal is ready to grow. This is called malting.
II. Next, the cereal is dried in a kiln (oven) to halt the growing process. Peat smoke can be used to help the drying and impart flavor. The cereal is then ground in a mill to be mixed with water.
III. Hot water is mixed in to extract the sugars. Next, the resulting liquid is drawn off and left to cool. Yeast is added and fermentation begins, creating a kind of beer.
Adding Hot Water
Copper Stills
IV. This "beer" is then distilled twice to increase the alcohol concentration and flavor. This occurs in a large container called a still, which is usually made of copper.
V. After distillation, the liquid is transferred to specially treated oak casks to mature for a minimum of three years before it can legally be called Scotch Whisky. For example, Johnnie Walker Black Label is created from whiskies aged at least 12 years or more.
Agreed that Rob Neville is absolutely a class act. While Savara was privately held and before engaging in merger talks with Mast, I could always count on a straight answer from Rob if I emailed or called him with a question. Now, he has to be extremely circumspect with material non-public information. He is still quite responsive.
I have gotten the impression from almost all Mast holders that McCully is someone they'd prefer never to see or hear from again.
Pray, Those are very old numbers for Savara. I have been a Savara shareholder since Series B in 2012 and I believe we've passed Series C as well. I just exercised my Series B warrants to buy more Savara shares at $3.13 in advance of the pending merger. This against a value at our last funding round of over $5/sh.
The pitchbook information also was back when Savara had 19 holders. I believe we are now much more broadly held: in the several hundreds. The Savara story (forgetting about MAST at the moment) has resonated well with investors.
Also holding a number of MSTX shares.
MisterEnzo, There are very few of us on the board, hence not a lot of posts. Most of us who hold shares are also on the company's email list, so I get most of my information that way or from my brokerage.
Happy to welcome you as a fellow shareholder. Jonathan Adams seems to be doing the right things (IMHO) to move the ascites drug forward. Technically, there are more drug assets on the books from the company's days as NNAB, but he is concentrating on getting the most advanced one across the goal line.
Furthering our whiskey education:
http://www.liquor.com/articles/canadian-whisky-rules/#gs.gF2jyW4
Indeed.
Ahh, OK. Thanks FUN.
Thanks $oldier, I'll see if I can get over to that store. Not looking good now. Still too much to get done.
Sorry about having been out so much and so often lately. Still busy but a friend brought me a bottle of the regular Jefferson's yesterday and had used a Jefferson's box to bring it over.
The box is (from) "Jefferson's Reserve Pritchard Hill Cabernet Cask Finished." I had not heard of this variety before.
Paul, My best wishes for your son, UP and otherwise.
OK. I know it isn't offered that often near me.
Hey Meister,
Didn't you say you like the Groth finish Jefferson's? Well guess what Caskers is featuring--
Jefferson's Reserve Groth Reserve Cask Finish Very Old Straight Bourbon Whiskey
This limited release was extra-matured in ex-Cabernet Sauvignon barrels from Napa Valley’s Groth Vineyards for nine months.
$89.99
The principal author of the Declaration of Independence and one of the greatest Founding Fathers, Thomas Jefferson was elected the third President of the United States in 1800. During his tenure, Jefferson authorized the purchase of the Louisiana Territory, dispatched Lewis and Clark westrrtrtward in order to explore the remainder of the continent and repealed the Whisky Excise Tax.
After Jefferson retired from public office in 1815, he often tended to the garden that he had cultivated on his Monticello estate. At the time, it was customary for wealthy farmers, including Jefferson, to distill the excess grains they harvested from their farms into spirits (George Washington was one of the country’s largest distillers of rye whiskey). As a result, each farmer’s spirits were unique and reflected the local terrior of their farm. The Jefferson’s brand pays homage to Jefferson and the exquisite whiskey he distilled.
Jefferson’s Groth Reserve Cask Finish Bourbon Whiskey was first aged in new American oak barrels for approximately six years before being extra-matured in ex-Cabernet Sauvignon barrels from Groth Vineyards for an additional nine months. Groth Vineyards and Winery is a high-caliber producer out of California’s Napa Valley that is particularly well-known for its Cabernet Sauvignon, and these special barrels give Jefferson’s Groth Reserve Cask Finish Bourbon Whiskey its unique and robust characteristics.
The whiskey has a starbright aroma of peaches, blackberries, caramel corn and toffee, which leads to a palate marked by burnt oak, red wine, cinnamon spice and dark and dried fruits. The finish is long and dry, with lasting notes of sweet tobacco, cornbread and baked apples.
This release, which was released in the summer of 2015, is extremely limited — pick up a bottle or two today!
Crashco, Excellent expression of what I feel as well.
Agree it is better for ROX -at the moment - to stay out of the Russel indices.
Meister, Train might slow down, even back up a bit. I'll stick my arm out to help pull you back on board. I'm sure $oldier and FUN will as well.
Caskers promoting Jeffersons Ocean Cask Strength:
Jefferson's Ocean Aged at Sea Cask Strength Kentucky Straight Bourbon
Aged at sea on a huge container vessel. this cask strength bourbon stopped in five different continents and crossed the equator four times during its journey.
$104.99
The principal author of the Declaration of Independence and one of the greatest Founding Fathers, Thomas Jefferson was elected the third President of the United States in 1800. During his tenure, Jefferson authorized the purchase of the Louisiana Territory, dispatched Lewis and Clark westward in order to explore the remainder of the continent and repealed the Whisky Excise Tax.
After Jefferson retired from public office in 1815, he often tended to the garden that he had cultivated on his Monticello estate. At the time, it was customary for wealthy farmers, including Jefferson, to distill the excess grains they harvested from their farms into spirits (George Washington was one of the country’s largest distillers of rye whiskey). As a result, each farmer’s spirits were unique and reflected the local terrior of their farm. Jefferson’s Ocean Aged At Sea Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey pays homage to Jefferson and the exquisite whiskey he distilled.
Jefferson’s Ocean Aged At Sea Cask Strength Bourbon is first matured in older bourbon casks for approximately six to eight years on land, before the casks are placed on a ship and allowed to rest for another several months at sea. At sea, the bourbon and oak casks are forced to mingle with each other as the ship — which stops in five different continents and crosses the equator four times during the journey — rolls back and forth over the water. In addition, the temperature and barometric pressure fluctuations during the sea voyage cause the oak staves to expand and contract, and allow the bourbon to extract more of the tannins and flavor from the oak during its maturation.
Bottled at cask strength for the first time, Jefferson’s Ocean Aged At Sea Cask Strength Bourbon has an aroma of cinnamon buns, orange zest, burnt sugar and marshmallow. Thick notes of salted caramel, figs and chocolate fudge dominate the palate, and lead to a playful finish accented by sweet mint, lemon cake and nutmeg.
We have only a handful of bottles available. Pick up a bottle today!
https://www.caskers.com/jefferson-s-ocean-aged-at-sea-cask-strength-kentucky-straight-bourbon?_ke=c29tZWNvbmNlcm5zQHlhaG9vLmNvbQ%3D%3D&utm_campaign=Daily&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=Caskers
cool!
FUN, I get the response:
"Sorry, this content isn't available right now"
Did you get your barrel yet?
I'll have to remember that excuse: "corroded bands had burst off a couple of barrels."
Sox, Watching the scientific progress on the different studies. Sitting. Waiting. Patiently.
Also picking up more shares as funds permit.
Caskers promoting Knappogue Castle Irish whiskey this week:
https://www.caskers.com/knappogue-16-year-old-twin-wood-single-malt-irish-whiskey/
Knappogue 16 Year Old Twin Wood Single Malt Irish Whiskey
This single malt Irish whiskey was aged for 14 years in ex-bourbon casks before being transferred by the Master Distiller into sherry-infused casks made specially for Knappogue Castle, where it rested for an additional 21 months.
$89.99
In 1966, Texas architect Lavoné Dickensheets Andrews and her husband, Mark, stumbled upon the remains of Knappogue Castle, an Irish landmark in County Clare which was originally built by Clan MacNamara in 1467. Struck by the passionate impulse to restore the castle, the couple purchased Knappogue Castle and embarked on their journey to restore its original grandeur.
While Mrs. Andrews focused on the architectural details of the project, Mark Andrews began buying casks of the finest pot still Irish whiskey and bottling them under his own independent label, suitably named Knappogue Castle. Andrews was unusual in that he chose to bottle single malt Irish whiskies, as opposed to blends, which most others were choosing at the time. The last of Andrews’ selections, Knappogue Castle 1951, was distilled at the now-defunct B. Daly distillery, and since become the oldest and rarest publicly-available Irish whiskey in existence.
Knappogue 16 Year Old Twin Wood Single Malt Irish Whiskey carries on the tradition started by the Andrews over a half-century ago. As a single malt Irish whiskey, it is crafted exclusively from unpeated, malted barley before being triple distilled through both pot and column stills. Distilled in November, 1995 and bottled in October, 2012, Knappogue 16 Year Old Twin Wood Single Malt Irish Whiskey was aged for 14 years in ex-bourbon casks before being transferred by the Master Distiller into sherry-infused casks made specially for Knappogue Castle, where it rested for an additional 21 months.
As a result of this meticulous aging process, Knappogue 16 Year Old Twin Wood Single Malt Irish Whiskey has a deep, reddish gold color and a rich bouquet of fruits, nuts, malts and peppery spice. The palate is oily and filled with dark chocolate, with further notes of sherry and vanilla extract appearing on the body. The whiskey finishes dry and semi-sweet, with pleasant notes of oak and sherry rounding things out.
Only 4,500 bottles of this impeccable whiskey were ever produced, each numbered and signed — pick one up today!
BEVERLY, MA--(Marketwired - March 06, 2017) - BioVie Inc. (OTCQB: BIVI), a development-stage company focused on the discovery, development, and commercialization of innovative drug therapies for liver disease, announced today that its stock has commenced trading on the OTCQB market after successfully uplisting from the OTC Pink market.
OTCQB membership provides enhanced investor benefits including higher reporting standards, increased analyst coverage and access to news services, and more comprehensive compliance requirements. "We anticipate that trading on the OTCQB will raise BioVie visibility in the investment community and broaden our shareholder base," commented CEO Jonathan Adams. "It's an important step towards building BioVie into a larger company."
BioVie recently submitted a complete response to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), addressing the issues identified in the Investigational New Drug Application (IND) clinical hold letter received by the Company in January. If notified by the FDA that clinical development of BIV201 may proceed, BioVie expects to commence a mid-stage (Phase 1b) clinical trial in US ascites patients in the next few months.
About BioVie Inc.
BioVie Inc. is a development-stage company pursuing the discovery, development, and commercialization of innovative drug therapies. The Company is currently focused on commercializing BIV201, a novel approach to the treatment of ascites due to chronic liver cirrhosis. In late 2016, BioVie submitted an investigational new drug (IND) application to the FDA for BIV201 and is awaiting clearance to begin a clinical trial program. This new drug candidate could potentially enter a mid-stage (Phase 1b) US clinical trial in early 2017. BIV201 has the potential to improve the health of thousands of patients suffering from life-threatening complications of liver cirrhosis due to hepatitis, NASH, and alcoholism. It has Orphan Drug designation for the most common of these complications, ascites, which represents a significant unmet medical need. The FDA has never approved any drug specifically for treating ascites. For more information about BioVie and BIV201, please visit our website: www.biovieinc.com.
About Liver Cirrhosis and Ascites
More than 600,000 Americans and millions worldwide suffer from liver cirrhosis. Cirrhosis is the 12th-leading cause of death due to disease in the US, killing an estimated 40,000 people each year. The condition results primarily from hepatitis, alcoholism, and nonalcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH) linked to fatty liver disease and obesity. Ascites is a common complication of advanced liver cirrhosis. With no medications approved by the FDA specifically for treating ascites, an estimated 40% of patients die within two years of diagnosis. Certain drugs approved for other uses may provide initial relief, but patients often fail to respond to them as ascites worsens. In addition to patient suffering, US treatment costs for liver cirrhosis, including ascites and other complications, are estimated at more than $4 billion annually.
So, drink up your open-bottle Jefferson's collection and buy more!
In furtherance of our whiskey education:
How Long Does Whiskey Keep Once Opened?
Contributed by The Whiskey Wash on Aug 30, 2016
DrinkWire is Liquor.com's showcase for the best articles, recipes and reviews from the web's top writers and bloggers. In this post, The Whiskey Wash offers advice on storing your favorite bottles of whiskey.
How long does whiskey keep? In the simplest terms, it lasts almost forever. Distilled spirits don’t spoil. They won't make you sick like old milk and won’t turn to vinegar like beer and wine.
But in practice, a bottle of whiskey doesn’t last forever. (Ah, if only!) Once you open a bottle of whiskey, exposure to light, air and temperature fluctuations start to change its flavor.
Initially, that can be a good thing. We’ve all had the experience of opening a bottle, tasting it right away and not particularly enjoying its contents. Coming back to that same bottle a month, we find a spirit that feels much more integrated and cohesive on the palate.
But what about the long term? Eventually, open bottles of whiskey will start to oxidize, losing some fragrance and flavor. Some experts say bottles should be finished within a year or two; others feel five years is the limit, as long as you follow these recommendations:
1. Limit Light
Your whiskey collection might be beautiful enough to display out in the open, but it’ll last longer if you keep it behind a cabinet door. Many whiskeys are packaged in dark glass bottles for exactly this reason. If your bottle came in a canister or box, storing it inside the original packaging can provide another layer of protection.
2. Limit Temperature Fluctuations
Cool room temperature is fine, but try not to go hotter. Avoid warm rooms, indirect sun, radiators, furnace vents and other heat sources. Good places to store your whiskey: basements, root cellars or even the bottom shelf in your pantry. (We know, we know—your collection is anything but "bottom shelf.")
3. Limit Oxygen
If you’re trying to preserve a bottle for long-term consumption, consider investing in a vacuum sealer, the kind used by bars and restaurants to keep open bottles of wine fresh longer.
4. Store Bottles Upright
Whereas wine needs to remain horizontal to prevent the cork from drying out, stronger spirits will actually eat away at cork, imparting flavors to the spirit and potentially ruining the seal.
Lastly, and most importantly, stop saving that half-full bottle of fancy booze for a special moment. Start making your everyday indulgences more special by drinking that prized possession before it starts to lose the flavors that made it fancy in the first place.
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- See more at: http://drinkwire.liquor.com/post/how-long-does-whiskey-keep-once-opened#gs.eoERTQo
From Motley Fool:
"Here's Why Opko Health Inc. Stock Lost Some More Ground Today
The beleaguered pharmaceutical and diagnostics company's latest earnings report failed to please investors.
Cory Renauer
(TMFang4apples)
Mar 2, 2017 at 4:47PM
What happened
Shares of multinational pharmaceutical and diagnostics company Opko Health, Inc. (NASDAQ:OPK) are feeling the heat after reporting fourth-quarter and full-year 2016 earnings. Despite a major thumping late last year, the stock gave up another 10.5% as of 3:31 p.m. on Thursday.
So what
Revenue for the year jumped to $1.22 billion from $492 million last year. That looks great on the surface, but the top-line growth is largely due to the $1.5 billion acquisition of BioReference Labs in mid-2015.
Downward sloping chart with a question mark at the end.
Investors weren't too impressed with last year's net loss of about $25.1 million in light of taking on the big diagnostics company that was supposed to drive profit growth. Those hoping for some early signs of a successful launch for Rayaldee were also disappointed when the company didn't break out any sales data.
Now what
To be fair, Rayaldee didn't launch until November. That said, Opko claimed its addressable market could be as large as $12 billion, although most analysts predict peak annual sales of the kidney disease drug to top out at about $500 million. The company did tell investors that it had secured coverage for about 60% of U.S. patients already. All eyes will be on this drug's sales next time the company reports to see which end of the enormous sales estimate appears more likely.
Another revenue stream that's had a hard time delivering on its promise is the prostate cancer screen known as the 4Kscore. The company had once predicted annual revenue of around $300 million based on about 1 million tests performed each year at a cost of $300 per test. Again, Opko didn't break out 4Kscore sales figures. More than a year after its launch 18,000 tests ordered in the fourth quarter, though, suggests the company overestimated its potential as well.
Until Opko can show some clear signs it can live up to expectations, it's probably best to watch from the sidelines."
Cool. I like the emails j3sg sends me, alerting me to all form 4 buys and sells in just the one place. It's much easier than going from board to board.
Well I date back to a first lot at 28 cents in 2012 (my average is way higher, of course) and I am holding for the big gains I expect when ROX is ultimately sold to a much larger beverage business in search of growth and our desirable brands. Goslings has done a great job of growing organically and now it looks like sales will catapult upward.
I'm looking forward to detailed financial projections from FUNman when he gets the time to focus. Everyone have a great weekend and either a Dark n Stormy or a nice glas of Jeffersons. Whatever floats your boat.
I was just going off my report from j3sg.com. It's a bunch of shares, anyway!
Atl, It's just a nitpicking difference, but I see 98,400 shares purchased by the good Dr. Frost yesterday.
Yup. First gear, then second....
Just thought you newbies might like to learn more about how pleasurable the ROX products are. I realize some of you are probably into and out of some stocks pretty quickly. The products might give you a chance to decide to stay awhile.
http://www.mensjournal.com/food-drink/collections/the-best-cask-strength-whiskeys-w463833/jeffersons-ocean-cask-strength-bourbon-w463860
This is the portion on ROX:
WHISKEY
The Best Cask Strength Whiskeys
By Ari Bendersky
Jefferson's Ocean Cask Strength Bourbon
Talk about going the distance for your craft: Jefferson's Ocean is produced in small batches and then the barrels are set to sea to age, often crossing the equator three to four times, visiting five continents and more than 30 ports during the journey. Briny sea salt air, temperature fluctuations, and the gentle rocking of the ocean all influence the bourbon as it ages. Each batch takes on different characteristics, and the "Voyage No. 7" that we tasted offers sweet vanilla and cotton candy notes on the nose with heavy deep wood characteristics that turn into sweetness and toasted brown sugar in the mouth. At 112 proof, this is definitely a very special selection. [$69.99, jeffersonsbourbon.com)
Yes, those are pretty economical and easy to park in small spaces. I would guess it's either a rep or a courier who runs between the lab and doctors' offices picking up samples for analysis.
Have not posted here for a while but thought I'd relay that I saw a small white Toyota Yaris today with "4ScoreTest" emblazoned on the rear bumper in big red letters. Also had "OPKO health companies" on the side, including bioreference labs.
Rayank, Its the world today, with so much fake news. You, $oldier, Funman, and a few others (myself included) have been in ROX for several cycles, so we know it's real. Some other folks saw this pop up on their volume and price gain screens so they don't know ROX from some pump and dump penny stock. I do not blame them in the least for doing whatever DD they can.