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JUST IN: David Tepper is converting hedge fund Appaloosa into a family office and returning outside capital to focus more on running the Carolina Panthers
lots of share selling/dilution going on for some reason (acquisition shares granted, board members, escrows paid who knows...) but lots of hidden dumping
on level 2 there has been thousands of shares being traded daily at specific price targets beyond what is showing on level 2, lots of hidden sellers, the price stays in a range but what is traded is way beyond what is showing for sale on level 2
be cautious here, wait for better opp lower price if you are trading it, not talking about investors or escrow holders
once this hidden selling is done, maybe July, do not be surprised to see news of another revere split from say $5 which is should be at in July at a 4x1 putting it back into the $20 range with a small float and all dilutive sellers gone
be cautious trading this
There's something going here for sure. For the last several months, I've been closely watching this trade on L2 and it acts like a dilutive penny ticker.
I.E., the Ask has 500 shares at a certain price for example, and thousand of shares being bought at the same price with no movement upward in pps.
I predicted that after the merger, the price would head back to a .75-.78 pre-merger pps ($9 post), because the merger was dilutive. However, the announcements afterwards of acquisitions and such, propped the pps up for the rest of 2018.
I still believe this will be a huge company with a pps in 50.00s or 60.00s in the coming years, but something is happening behind the scenes beyond the recent acquisitions, that is diluting this.
EXPECT another offering to be announced for XYZ reason.
And no, I don't think it will be for escrow payouts. That ship has sailed and gone, no expectations there. I hold many P's but I view them as another layer in a garbage pile at the dump.
I wish COOP had options to trade, because buying a ton of Calls here or in the $8s would be a home run in a year.
Good for bopfan for not taking this abuse without a fight! Very Nate like.
Time for us to buckle up for 5-7 more years of litigation.
Low volume preholiday week should drop this to mid 1.40s
Might be a good flip for next week exit
oh my god guys, please stop linking the new company to escrows
YES we all want escrows to get paid and send us to the golden castle, but they are NOT linked to WMIH/NSM/COOP
escrow is separate IF it even has any value which is highly debatable still
I have yet to see a public filing that outright says- "these assets xyz, belong to the legacy shareholders represented by the LT, and currently these assets are located at abc, and we can't release them because of 123...
If you have 10k shares at 1.50 = $15,000
after r/s, you will have 833.33 shares at $18 per share, however they do not issue fractional shares so the .33 fractional will be placed in a compu share account or your brokerage in cash roughly $5.94
there is no strike price technically, just an exact reverse ratio, the 12 for 1
the price can go in any direction before split and split at the 12 ratio approved, here's a few possible scenarios-
1- there's a selloff tomorrow from panic retail shareholders, can go to any price below 1.50, realistically if it did go down, it wouldn't go any lower .80 cents or so because most that own this stock are institutions and they are holding for the payday, so if it did go to say $1, it would reverse to $12, and everyone would have to wait for it to go back up to $18 (if they had bought at 1.50 originally)
2- the price goes up from here through Oct., this may happen if those that are short the stock need to cover immediately in fear which will drive the price above 1.50, they may also decide to short more and take it to $1 to cover at a lower price rather than panic covering their short positions, if KKR is short a big amount they will drive it down, if its mostly retail and small institutions, they will panic cover here tomorrow MAYBE
also keep in mind that short positions have to be closed out before the reverse mandatory
the post reverse float will be about 90mil outstanding shares and that is a very very small float which is hard to borrow if you want to short it after reverse, many retail trading chat rooms love to day trade low float stocks because they have parabolic moves, it doesn't take much to move them up because there aren't many shares to fight through
scenario 2 in my opinion is ideal
3- the stock does nothing , the market maker keeps it in a range of 1.4-1.5 until the reverse, with very little volume daily like the old days
The reason so many are in a panic as you noted, is because most reverses are failures of penny stock companies
however keep in mind that even good companies that reverse experience downturn in share price after reverse and they eventually recover, its just that your money will parked there dead until you can get your par or higher back
hope that helps
A few questions that need answers now.
1- Will this be shorted to death while it has a large float pre-split? Typically, reverse splits are NOT favorable for shareholders in the short term. We saw someone already dump on news after hours. Will the MMs control the price so that it doesn't tank? There's been evidence of that over the last week.
2- What will the outstanding float share count be after the split? If the float is very low after the split, the stock will be very hard to borrow to short. Thus, anyone short right now, will start to cover pre-split.
correct
countless posters speculated assets coming back simultaneously with merger, but zilch happened
now they are all loading up new theories with dates into 2019
they do it to take their minds off of the pain
its an exercise in sedation over the grief of a losing investment for many folks
Massive wall at 1.45
MM holding up the price for non KKR institutionals converting
, KKR converted at 1.36-1.38
After 1.45 converts are done, MM will release and retail will take it back down below $1
Then r/s
Dividends are probably a little bit of a ways off. Likely 2020 if the economy holds up (I think it will because we are in an unprecedented time relative to the last 40 years, where an administration is actually bringing value back to the mainland via corporate loosening, tax benefits, jobs, manufacturing, etc...).
However, anything can happen as we all know, to trigger a turn down in the economic cycle, as they call it.
Every 8 to 11 years, everything corrects via blaming some sector (home loans, .com bubble, LBOs, etc..).
I believe an attempt was made to correct and dip the economy earlier this year with the double leveraged volatility etf crisis in Feb 2018. Well, the market powered through that.
I expect a bull market to continue into the next 7 years but at a more tempered state (1950s like), little stair steps up. 7 years of COOP/wmih will likely be a $100 stock.
Somewhere around 2025, we should see a new sector selected by the money masters to kill and take the market and economy down with it. Who knows what it will be. Doubt it will be real estate, so COOP/wmih will weather and maintain value.
Perhaps the target will be whatever a millennial would own for retirement because they are next larger age group. Just like the elite have done with every age demographic. It's always about taking wealth from the masses that have it, and transferring it to the elite that want more.
I look forward to trading WMIH/COOP options in 2019 through 2025. Big profits I believe.
If COOP/WMIH releases a dividend in a year or two, what a great opportunity.I hope that you will be able to enjoy that also.
Even better if COOP/WMIH created a REIT dividend via a sub company (maybe XOME because currently it's terribly run).
Those REITs pay very high dividend percentages, and they are basically in the same business sector to do that. hmmm
These types of articles are speculations.
This person was never associated with WMI or government entity during seizure and liquidation of assets.
It's an opinion without data from government or WMI leadership.
Where is the factual documented evidence of that (assets hidden)?
Everythis posted in here for 10 years and/or the other board, not once have I ever seen, after reading everything twice, actual direct factual evidence that in summarized terms, says---
These assets/mortgages/warrants/cash/ whatever, belong to the legacy shareholders of WMI and will be managed by X, and distributed by Y (LT or whoever).
Is there anything in that document that you posted that says "WMIH, Nationstar, Washington Mutual)?
I couldn't find anything.
This is the wmih (former nsm assets business/wmih) board right?
Legacy assets (theoretical assets) of wamu/wmi belong to wmilt for distribution to legacy shareholders right?
There is no legal or governmental factual tie in of those theoretical assets belonging to WMIH.They are a completely off topic item belonging to another entity that is NOT WMIH.
Then why are those topics allowed on this board?
The big money and institutions own most of the stock. A vote is a formality because the shares that common folk own is maybe 10% or under of wmih/coop.
The major shareholders will vote it in.
The real problem is after the r/s, when typically most tickers regardless if they are penny tickers or bigger companies, after r/s 95% of stocks get heavily shorted. I expect wmih/coop will get heavily shorted after r/s (probably 20%-25% of post r/s price). So, if r/s yields a $17 price, then figure it will be shorted down to about $12-$13 and then after few months in 2019 make it back to around $15.
The value is way out long term as they gobble up other companies, 2020, 2021 and beyond.
Folks under 40 years old, that are liquid with cash, should load this heavily after the post r/s shorting, and put the stock away for 7-10 years and don't look. 10 years from now, you might have a $100 ticker that you bought for $12.
I can't wait to buy wmih/coop leap options when they are made available.
Why is LT escrow discussed in here now? Isn't this the new nsm/wmih/coop?
No, that was yesterday when the fantastical midas riches were supposed to be exchanged for shares and cash so that COOP could service them.
The assets flew the "coop".
Now the fantasy land fun bunch have dates of Oct., Nov., and Mar '19 as their new sandbox to play in and make up more fiction.
theres only reading the trading tape daily and marry that with factual business moves publicly released by this company COOP/nsm/wmih
kind of how many got excited about ticker price in 2018 when COOP/nsm/wmih purchased XOME, without reading that the company did not expect any benefit of this acquisition to occur in 2018, it said the acquisition was accretive to 2019
oh gosh no, that would be dumb dumb right now
some folks take my posts as being short and anti nsm/wmih/coop, when my posts are just reality, reality is sometimes perceived as negative because people have a hard time accepting the reality of how this stock ticker is trading, I'm just reading the daily trading tape
my favorite play here is to wait for reverse split at 20x or post r/s of $17, then wait another few weeks after for it to be shorted to $12-$15 as reverses usually do, and then hopefully options are available and load heavily on late 2019 and 2020 leap options calls because by 2020 nsm/wmih/COOP will be a very big business, I suspect a $40 a share ticker WITHOUT fantasy items coming back, based solely on nsm items and further acquisitions
price targets for the week still remain at a low of 1.25
next week low will be 1.07
and the week of 8/20 will be .85
then reverse split ratio of 20x to $17
then shorted for a few months to $12
then back up to settle at $15 or .75 pre reverse split
opportunities for making money in the short term here-
1- short it when it reverse splits
2- buy late 2019 and 2020 call options, long term leaps, when available after reverse split
happy hunting
See the SEC publicly traded company documents posted by wmih & nsm that say the new ticker symbol will be COOP.
this is the COOP board
COOP= NSM & WMIH a company merged from two others that have NOTHING to do with Washington Mutual NOTHING
this company's operations and revenues are from NSM ongoing business
these LT board members get paid for what?
regurgitation of the same quarterly release with the date changed
what do they discuss when they meet, lol
free lunch and a bonus paycheck looks like to me
ok, now we can move on from the unicorn billions attached to the merger horse crap and talk about how COOP will trade as a ticker
It's not mom and pop. If it were, the MM would not prop up the price and hold it steady 1.32-1.33.
It's conversion of B preferreds.
Millions traded in a 2 cent narrow range. Mom and Pop selling millions would have instantly tanked this to under $1.
MM is holding up the price similar to how they do when a penny stock dilutes and the toxic lenders sell shares in the ask price. Same thing when conversions happen in blue chip tickers.
MM hold up price for big money but never for common folks
line up your bets on LT delay:
1- delayed because there are billions upon billions coming to LT to make escrow holders rich beyond their midas dreams
2- delayed because some finance exec was in the Hamptons balling out with his 3 girlfriends, and forgot to complete the quarterly docs
I vote #2. NOTHING will be different in the quarterly. Maybe just a little note and reminder to direct questions about COOP back to COOP and not the LT.
its hopium
next one after that one will be 2019 date aligned with BK exit date of 2012 because how could it not happen, billions landing 7 years post BK exit
then it will be some 10 year date after 2012 BK exit, "assets and billions coming back on March 2022..." LT has extended etc... etc...
years and years of horse crap
1.32 as predicted
tues- 1.29 close
wed- 1.25
thurs- 1.19
fri- 1.07
next week 1.06 through .90 closing end of week at .90
8/20 week .85 as all institutions complete their conversions
R/S 8/22/18 20x ratio to $17, after R/S I think it will get shorted a bit to around $12 and after a few weeks settle in at $15 and stay there through the end of 2018
regular folk commons holders holding bags at $15 or prior R/S equivalent of .75 cents, with hopium for 2019, unicorns and such...
big money does what it always does, puts the smack down on the common folk
Tomorrow's bid and ask should be 1.29 - 1.32
Unless MM moves it faster to bid of 1.25, but I think there's still way too many B holders that are in line waiting to be converted
Agreed, but unfortunately, the majority of common holders are the big money players, so its getting approved regardless.
I think the best move here, is to sell commons if one owns them. Wait for R/S. Then buy the options when they become available. Good value strike price for options for $17 ticker will probably be priced at around $2-$3
You buy far out leaps and it's like holding the ticker long, except you get much more return on your money when it COOP actually moves way up say in 2019
IMO, 2018 COOP pricing is hosed.
Ugly bag holding I see coming, or for those that have time, a great opportunity to profit 20 years down the road.
This is not for those who want a payoff now, it's not going to happen, and no fantasy assets are going to help either. There will not be sudden share price moves to the upside due to a new valuation either.
It is what it is, it's trading like a share dilution dump factory, or in this case, a share conversion factory. The market is telling what it's worth, there's no price conspiracy.
Every day a new lower high and lower low, its trading like I remember penny crap tickers used to trade whereby every day it gets pinned to a new lower price, and tons of shares start to go off at the ask price but it never moves up or down, a very very clear sign of toxic diluting in penny stocks and in this case, tons and tons of convertible transitioning into common shares.
Again, at this rate, after all B's are converted daily, this will be stair stepped all the way to .85. Question is, will it bounce back up after all the converting is done? I doubt it, that's when R/S will happen.
So, if one owns a share price avg of 1.40, and it goes to
.85, and reverses lets say 20x to $17, in order for one to get their par value back, the stock would need to move to $28. Ugly bag holding I see coming.
It crapped the bed as more execs and institutions converted and unloaded their positions end of day, it was ugly red.
We should see .85 within a week or so.
Then R/S, then bag holding for months/years, like many have already in here.
The daily chart now looks like crap. The moves to the low 1.30s created a messy chart and no trend.
The Assurant acquisition isn't likely to do anything nearterm to the price, because they said it was accretive to 2019.
I still believe it's going to .85 within a few weeks.
The LT has zero to do with this now, that is all fantasy land. They delayed quarterly report has absolutely nothing to do with WMIH because if it did, WMIH would have to disclose that pre-merger. Too many people on here smoking the crazy cabbage.
I'm seeing lots of dumping again on level 2. Big lots of shares, same action as yesterday in a controlled steady stream.
Prepare for another release after hours regarding more execs dumping shares.
Jay meant "value for the majority shareholders" (the ones with so many shares that a 10 or 20 to 1 reverse, would not affect adversely)
just like in 2012 when KKR said that they would be creating value "hand in hand with shareholders" (the ones with millions and millions of shares)
The 2 monkeys running the show for the past few years sell a mil at 1.42 because they know the R/S is coming and this is going lower tomorrow. I bet old Gene sold some also. 20% down tomorrow to start with is my prediction.
Who has the majority voting power? YES, the people that want this reversed to control it. A vote is a formality that's all, come on, you know that.
I'm not creating false panic. Some people living in dreamland. Like those believing that assets would appear after merger in conjunction with the merger. Watch how they present a new fantasy story in the coming days.
Like I said, to each his own. If you want to park your money for years until you can get your buy in back or a little profit, have fun.
I'd rather bang out and sell, and rebuy after the R/S when they offer options at reasonable level.
The reverse split statement on the PR is a signal that the company:
#1- Does not believe it can surpass the $5 a share mark in the coming months, thus institutional investors would not buy in.
My take- BAD, company does not have confidence at this level
#2- The company wants common shareholders to have very little power in the form of shares. They want to control how this trades by owning the majority and reducing common folk share count significantly via the R/S. My take- GOOD and BAD If it keeps the shorting to a minimum when reversed then its good, but I've seen more times than not, R/S get shorted into oblivion. Look at HMNY.
WMIH is going to get slaughtered tomorrow at open. Prepare for this to go below $1, and the R/S to be so massive that your quantities of shares in the grand scheme will be insignificant after the reverse.
For example, lets say someone own 50,000 shares in the 1.40s, and this goes to .85 a share, and they reverse at a ratio of 20 to get it to $17, the 50,000 owner will have 2,500 shares and will need it to get to $28 or so to recoup original buy in.
No, it's not impossible to get there after R/S, but it will take many many quarters of high profitability to get there, sitting on your money just to break even.
So if you have time to hang out and let your money not work for you, then R/S is no issue because the company will eventually be huge.
But if you need to turn a profit like I suspect many people that have been hanging on this board for years, well then this R/S is a big FU to common holders.