There sure is a lot of breath about escrows.
You either have them or you don't, that's it.
One couldn't sell them no matter how loud someone screams they are worthless.
One couldn't buy them no matter how loved and adored they are.
The decision to possess them was made years ago.

I have no idea why some find benefit in taking such a vigorous stand in either position.
Must be something there though.

Back to lurking

Great post ! Eom

I see things are getting interesting again.
I've been only 1/2 azz lurking since march.
What the deal with at&t coming back into this again ?
Anybody have a quick catch up paragraph or post to point me to?

Everybody has a price to roll on, some will roll for a nickle, some wouldnt roll for million, a hundred million, or even a billion- no rolling yet at that price. For some individuals on this planet, a billion is pocket change. Some people rolled collectively at just over 300 billion.
Everybody has a price, for some it is much more than others. Integrity and honesty of any man become vulnerable if enough money is involved. Question is how much is enough, that's the art of negotiation.

The estate has paid millions in "accounting fees" to blackstone for work that involves ZERO accounting. The disclaimer attached to their monthly reports states they have done such "no accounting has been performed ". So publicly, nobody knows what its worth, what is owed changes every time more money is found. Some folks state the numbers off of the MOR, or use them in calculations, but they are "in now way to be used by investors " also in the disclaimer.

DD stands for due diligence study & investigating in most cases and most investors know that.
This one appears to post her own definition of DD, Doo-Doo.
Complete nincompoopery based on Gypsy crystal ball & tourette's

Those type of " do nothing and you agree" contracts are quite sketchy and cause lots of trouble.

I can follow your theory, it makes sense but there are some IRS stipulations that make it difficult if not impossible to satisfy your theory. First, marketing the NOLS for the sake the nols of is a no-no. Second, to keep the nols, there can be no transfer of ownership. Third, via a merger to acquire the nols the companies must be similar size and like business. That little tid-bit makes it impossible for any company to buy us and keep the full value of the nols. This buying & equally valued company, couldn't have the capital. That excluded the big companies like GE, exon, Walmart ect. So that leaves us in a position of being the acquirer, or the looser.

This WaMu situation is unique, a $200, million company with $17 billion in "PRE PAID TAX CREDITS AGAINST FUTURE PROFITS" other wise known as a NOL. Remember that hedgie said a sophisticated investor could make significant profits. This is a circumstance that exists without a situation to exploit it.

Step one :
our 200 Million company plus equally valued company = 400 million company
Step two:
Our 400 million company plus equally valued company = 800 million company
And so on and so on with the maximum being current value and certainly less.
Let's just say this ain't going to be quick or easy unless you are a sophisticated hedge fund in chahoots with other sophisticated hedge funds.

Before all this IT problem tripped up the HF, I can see each and every sophisticated hedge fund cronies building up a 200 million re insurance company for the sole purpose of being acquired by this NEWCO. Even if its just 50k reinsurance shell, its a candidate for acquisition. Thus creating a situation to exploit the circumstance.

It's really kind of funny when you see that plain as day.

My point is that if the market and general public do a simple three step calculation in a few seconds based only on the few facts in the media, that's what the numbers are. Quite an easy conclusion to reach, and seems both logical and reasonable if based only on those facts.

The current price level is based on a few seconds of calculator effort. Imo, it very undervalued @ this level.

Did you see johnny winters posts the other night?
His math and basher spin shows our current value at 0.035 based on the published info.
That math used a value of alittle less than 200 million, 30% of that dollar amount , then divided that by 1.7 billion. Equaled about 0.035 per wamuq share.

I love it when that basher shows up because we go up.

Maybe that's the incentive to agree to take a haircut now. That APR has an exact letter expression of the spirit of the APR. that would follow the spirt, with some money over time liberties. It's a settlement, everybody has to give and take.

Way back, when RICO was on the table, as the evidence for bid rigging, conspiracy, and such was coming to light, when the GSA validity was in serious questions, before DC was dismissed ( now reinstated and stayed), when 2 yrs after the seizure the deal still was not complete, 2x value plus was just as viable as any speculations out there . Things are very different today.

Cwg, you need to fix this or have it deleted.

Everything goes south after the 4th section and then is compounded by that error.
It's not a 3/1 exchange its 30/1

I can see minds boggled by math this evening.
What the hell is going on.

@ .06 , $6000.00 buys you 100k shares

If its a 30old/1new exchange or rs that leaves you with 3,333 new shares.
All things equal, those 3,333 shares would be roughly 1.80 each.
Same 6,000.00



Go ahead and calculate you investment off of 33,000 shares and you'll be really confused.

IMO and that of a very wise mentor

Some part of something is much better than 100% of nothing.

Rodent carried on about "equity is out of the money" for many months. He had us to be zeroed out on every published version of the POR.

I can't say we got an excellent deal out of mediation but I can say it is very very very far away from what rodent tried so very hard to do for years. Rodent lost, rodent failed his true clients whom ever they may be. That my friends is marvelous by itself.

Equity also has everything these that the lowlifes tried so hard to keep from us. That wasn't a playground game of keep away. That was a no holds barred, nasty as it takes, bad faith, get Equity gone no matter what mission and they failed. Jpig and fdic would only consider the conspired take down if equity got cancelled, yet here we are.

Is it overnight "wake up with money in your account"; not as of yet. Is a wealth of DC litigation coming; probably not. Is it "BAMM halted and you're in or out" , evidently not as of yet.

There are very few people who know what was left as far as WMI assets, potential, and future value. It must be enough for them to risk freedom, careers, and fines to keep it concealed. To engage in conspiracy to keep it hidden, to give up billions in cash in order to keep the silly 140 million dollar run off company. We will find out soon enough.

Strike, do you think that the SNH would have needed to wait a year or more to see gains with the newco after BK emergence if they got POR 6 thru. I'm going to guess they wouldn't have needed that long and neither will we my friend.
If we do most if us should be really good at waiting by now.

IMO and that of a very wise mentor

Some part of something is much better than 100% of nothing.

Rodent carried on about "equity is out of the money" for many months. He had us to be zeroed out on every published version of the POR.

I can't say we got an excellent deal out of mediation but I can say it is very very very far away from what rodent tried so very hard to do for years. Rodent lost, rodent failed his true clients whom ever they may be. That my friends is marvelous by itself.

Equity also has everything these that the lowlifes tried so hard to keep from us. That wasn't a playground game of keep away. That was a no holds barred, nasty as it takes, bad faith, get Equity gone no matter what mission and they failed. Jpig and fdic would only consider the conspired take down if equity got cancelled, yet here we are.

Is it overnight "wake up with money in your account"; not as of yet.
Is a wealth of DC litigation coming; probably not.
Is it "BAMM halted and you're in or out" , evidently not as of yet.


There are very few people who know what was left as far as WMI assets, potential, and future value. It must be enough for them to risk freedom, careers, and fines to keep it concealed. To engage in conspiracy to keep it hidden, to give up billions in cash in order to keep the silly 140 million dollar run off company. We will find out soon enough.

Just think, if they posted those trades while it was running, it would have ran higher and faster no? There's lots of dirty hands here trying to wash other dirty hands. Usually that makes a bigger mess.

That's the spirit, never give up ! !
Silly

That info is in one of the prior DS that was issued.
# of shares, initial price, projected value & There were also restrictions on the minimum amount that be purchased. They even discussed it being unfair at one hearing. It's there I just can't search so good from my phone..

Just thinking out loud here: about the math

I can't find it immediately but in one of the prior disclosure statements, there was a breakdown of the new stock initial price, projected future value and some heavy requirements in order to purchase. Sure wish I could find that .

Ok so there are 200,000,000 new shares, of which wamuq gets 30% or 60,000,000.
Does that mean our wamuq conversion factor will be 1,700,000,000 to 60,000,000 ? Or
1,700/ 60 = 28.3 28.3 wamuq shares for 1 new co share. Am I on track ?

Preferred collectively get 70% of 200,000,000 or 140, million.
What's there conversion factor going to look like?

I hope this little honey has a great ARSA

Not once, not ever have I heard rodent say anything that was later found to be completely true.
He has said so much crap at this point you can't possibly take anything he says and make an informed decision for yourself. Since he's the lead for the debtors you can't ignore him but need to analyze everything. Find the omission, the 1/2 truths and the rest is a little more useful than dangle berries.

Ok, so what's your point ?
That the director is represented by SG and not the constituants of the director.

Why would you think preferreds should get control, meaning 51%, or more of the new co. Just by definition, preferred shareholders had no rights to vote at shareholder meetings. They are offered, dividends contracts and maturity dates along with preferred status, meaning paid first, should a liquidation event occur. This isn't a liquidation, APR DOESNT mean squat in a settlement. The judge will need to follow it if she is forced to calculate a distribution but she can't figure out if she needs to scratch her watch or wind her ass. Even then it isn't so very absolute.

The commons do not have separate representation, the preferred do not have separate representation, and in fact, neither have any representation at all. SG is representing the EC, those individuals only and that's where its duty is. By default, what happens to or with their shares happens to your shares. The EC can agree amongst themselves to do what they want in a settlement because the APR doesnt mean squat in a settlement environment. Remember the bribe they tried to give MW & EC? He didn't accept, probably won't, but could have or might.

Since preferred holders as a group do not have separate representation, who will file the objections? individuals on their own expense at this point. Have a few holders get together and form a collective and then they need to disclose when they bought and at what or the what can be extrapolated easy enough. Be a tough place to argue from for more unless you are 100% pre seizure and didn't average down.

I don't know if its too late to appoint a preferred committee, select a firm, have it approved for compensation, get it up to speed, do discovery or forward discovery to them on and on. When the EC was granted and formed we were happy to see that and no separate representation was warranted. Maybe its needed now I don't know. An ad hoc committee will have lots if stuff to deal with as far as disclosure and then only those on the committee will have representation..

Some of the Preferreds have a maturity date far off in the future, and are owed back dividends..catch them up and continue until the maturity date , its not liquidation.

The Acharya numbers are a pipe-dream.

Imo, those numbers are real, but were they based solely on WaMu part of the rise in jpm or was that rise based on the 390+ secret loans to jpig by the fed. Or Is that part of the burried treasure every party is desperate to keep hidden.

If Dr A calculated this without the secret info then they may reflect all gains at jpig as a direct effect of WaMu. Hard to say.


Not a pipe dream, just a glimps at what secrets, too big to fail, corruption, and lack of transparency can do. Just a quick peek

Large, the short report we see posted is generated by FINRA and is comprised only of FINRA members submited information. No others, only those members. It's also based on the honor system. It's not a blanket membership either, meaning any subsidiary of the member firm isn't automaticly a member. Any short position held outside of FINRA is not included in that report. I find it fascinating that investor after investor quotes the FINRA report as the exact # of shorts.

FINRA has an application process and they don't have to accept any firm into the organization. It's more of a club than anything else.

Ive posted all the links to this before , its in my post history.

Rockie, that very well could be true just as much as not true.
Just watch and see who asks for it or causes it.
If its a mutual request or an agreement then it just might be so.

Board is quiet this morning. Delays are the only tactic available at this point. Delay and hope for new info or a screw up from the other side.
Just watch who causes it, most likely they are the ones not getting their way at the moment.

Remember, every dollar that is distributed out of NewCo reduces NewCo's value by one dollar, and reduces the merger potential size by one dollar (or two dollars if you consider the combined size with merger targets)

...Catz

That's a great point and one that should be in every investors plan. As long as the gsa is there this is where the value lies.

This case is so dynamic and also very twisted, laced with fraud, and then shrouded in secrecy. It's much different now than it was years ago before the issues were systematically eliminated.

Logically and elementary , in order for us shareholders to see any cash payouts let alone a large one, several things need to happen. Rightful ownership needs to be established and proven, a wrongful seizure needs to be established and proven, an exact value of what was wrongfully taken needs calculated and proven, exactly who took it and exactly who owns it now needs to be calculated, determined and proven, a judgment on who needs to make restitution and how much. Someplace in those details is going to be assets returned or not or a mixture. If those assets were to be returned there wouldnt be a cash restitution the value would come from the market more slowly than instant. Personally I think its all bs, but Thats where we are, here and now as wrong as it may be.

None of that has been proven yet, and 99.9% of that is covered in the GSA and simply is no longer relevant because of that document. Prove some of that and we would be looking at huge cash payments.

If we were to get any cash as shareholders, then I don't see it being anything of substance without some new facts. Also if we get token cash then I dont see any reason for them to give rights to the new co. also. Here and now, I believe the best we can hope for is complete ownership of the newco, next would be control of it, next is a stake in it. Trumping the GSA, would be the absolute best but ........until that starts to be a reality vs a remote possibility we are here.

Having a part of newco is a very good thing, they gave up billions in cash to keep their stake.

I certainly wouldn't consider a 5% increase on 900k volume slow for a stock that has traded around 8 mill on a regular basic over 3 years. Those 8 million days wouldn't have 5% movement most of the time. Some days 2 million in 5 mins and not that much rise.

Anemic volume and up 5.xx%.

Strange how 900,000 shares being traded can increase the value of the entire 1.7 billion isn't it.

You are going to be in the dark and frozen..

Apparently you chose to ignore the other points in that post.
Apparently Nelson was pulling numbers out of his bunghole to embarrass himself.
Apparently disclosure of the exact items required to reach a total is not needed.
Apparently reality is relative and not an absolute.
The reality is the basics are skewed and the particulars are based squarely upon the bias.

Clawman, there are a few things to look at.
Sept26, 2008- the first document ever filled in this case, rodent had over 30 billion in assets and 7+ in liabilities. It's there. Before tax refunds and nols. If that Did include the 4 billion deposit or not wasn't disclosed, But WMI didn't have it at that point.

Then there was much talk about a missing 29 billion. Kirsten grind brought that to the media, its there. Also before tax refunds and nols. The info is out there.

Nelson remarked on court about 30 billion and then a few months later had a slide presentation that showed the 30+ billion.


One could add the 25 billion from the petition, the 4 billion deposit, the missing 29 billion, nelsons 30 billion, & the tax refunds, the nols, and be well over 60 billion. Since there's no disclosure, it may be the same money being counted several times. Much like the duplicate and redundant claims. One could also take the general 30 billion and 1/2 it to 15. But its very difficult to ignore it all together.

Voodoo, that was the very first document filled in this case
Sept 26, 2008. Document #1

Lyons is going to "two weeks" us to death in your opinion.
I find it hard to believe he could help get the mess ironed out in just a few meetimgs. But need two weeks is what he said, then need two weeks or 17 days whatever.
He's 2 for 3 on extensions so far. I would expect another also on one hand, in the other I expect him to do what he says he's going to do.

Hard to say with this information blackout, speculate is all there is. If jpig and fdic got called in, nobody knows. Two ways that can go right? Complete holdouts or they see a graceful way to settle, get out and save face. Only two ways, just varying degrees grace.

Rockie, there were plenty of suicides reported to be caused be the financial crisis in general. Plenty of them never made CNN. ACCORDING TO ECONOMIC PROFESSIONALS - The financial crisis was triggered by WaMu being taken down. Don't take much to connect them, nor does it take much to keep them separated. Make your own call.

Directly connected WaMu suicide, did you look at that link I gave you yesterday? Kirsten Grind (back when she was on top of this) talks about it and they also have a brief discussion about the fdic's disregard of the widespread personal harm caused by their actions.

This one mentions one suicide directly from WaMu
http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/415296-truth-and-transparency/39433-transcript-of-the-dave-ross-show-seattle-washington-why-did-they-close-wamu-the-29-billion-dollar-question

There were more from the financial crisis, the crisis started with WaMu.