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Seriously. Couldn't agree more.
I received confirmation of the same. Hopefully it will clear a lot of the questions when it's posted.
People are fussing about his compensation but they need to realize that he has been working on this case essentially for free for the last 2 years. The EC is not compensated and those who have represented us and stepped down have said it's VERY taxing on them personally and emotionally.
We would have had nothing without the hard work of the EC. Now we get the company, the NOLs and who knows what else will end up being "discovered" post BK. I say the man deserves to finally get paid for all his work on this case.
No qualms from me.
I agree. And unless it is the only way to keep the NOLs, the TPS group will have a pretty good case.
The way it was written into the POR, the parties appear to be done negotiating this aspect and will leave it to the court to allow or adjust the percentages. This will not be an issue that will hold up the POR.
My questions regarding the 30% going to the commons:
Is including the commons necessary to have full use of the NOLs? If so, they will bring value to the preferreds.
If not, how is 30% going to the commons fair and reasonable when the preferred class is receiving only a minor initial recovery? (1.733%)
Fish,
I may have a .pdf copy of what you are looking for. PM me your email address as I can receive but not send with my account.
T
Dr.,
What do you make of this?
222:
a. Section 382.
Under section 382 of the IRC, if a corporation (or consolidated group) undergoes an
“ownership change,” the amount of its pre-change losses (including certain losses or deductions which are
“built-in,” i.e., economically accrued but unrecognized, as of the date of the ownership change) that may
be utilized to offset future income generally are subject to an annual limitation. It is unclear whether the
implementation of the Seventh Amended Plan would result in an ownership change of the Debtors. Such
determination depends, in part, on the extent to which creditors choose to receive Reorganized Common
Stock under the Seventh Amended Plan and the status of certain of the Preferred Equity Interests as
“stock” for purposes of Section 382. The remainder of this disclosure conservatively assumes that the
issuance of Reorganized Common Stock pursuant to the Seventh Amended Plan will constitute an
ownership change of the Tax Group for purposes of Section 382. As a result, as indicated above, the
entire amount of the estimated $17.7 billion NOL currently available to the Tax Group, substantially all of
which is attributable to WMB, would be subject to the annual limitation imposed by section 382 of the
IRC. In any event, as noted previously, even if there is no ownership change on the Effective Date, the
current projected income of Reorganized WMI as reflected in the Projections (see Article VII) only
utilizes a small portion of the estimated available NOL. In addition, it is possible there could be a
subsequent ownership change after the Effective Date, which would further limit Reorganized WMI’s
NOLs (see Section VIII.A.2.a.).
This is great! Thank you for posting this.
I agree and it sounds like TPS may be the only major objecting party to a new plan.
The DS will not take that long (remember, she mentioned a blacklined version) to revise so if there are in agreement or just waiting for the signatures of a party or two, it can easily be out by Monday.
I take today as good news for us.
Strike,
While your words will resonate to the crowd here, your "choice" words to the Judge will not be viewed favorably by the court. She has given us a lot of leeway and opened the door for a settlement or litigation instead of just approving the POR, which would have been business as usual in the BK community.
This has not gone as well as we hoped but it could have gone a lot worse. The Judge seems to get it now and we have some favor with the court. No need for a shareholder to spoil what good will we have, no matter how good it might feel.
Now, Rosie, on the other hand...
Thank you for taking the time to write this and it is as spot on as it gets. God bless the informed here and other places who try to speak clarity to the situation day after day, even when the hyper-emotional and other-motivated posters keep whining.
Some, such as you Fish, have clearly grown through this process and it will make us better people and better risk assessors through-out life. Others have chosen the victim route as the case has progressed. This is a stock and not a life commitment. Only a few here were personally wronged by the actions of the parties involved. Almost all of us, including me, were poor risk assessors, as we watch this case through rose colored glasses. That is not the fault of the EC, parties to this case or the Judge. We can buy or sell at any time.
Regardless of mediation or how much of a better position we are in now, compared to a year ago, this case still has risk. If you don't understand or cannot assess where we are now, you don't need to be in this stock. All the "I demand justice" and the Judge is unfair posts will do nothing to change the outcome.
Do your homework. Understand the risk AND the process, then make your decision. At some point, this case will close and how I come out of it, is in my hands and my hands only.
GLTA
IF it involves the FDIC, it definitely would take longer to get them to sign on. I remember previous times when the FDIC needed signatures, it took their BOD several additional weeks to meet and decide. JPM's structure is much more nimble.
Hopefully, they are giving up the tax refunds and we can end this thing. :)
You have to wonder if even he expected his statements to have such an impact at the first confirmation hearing.
The guy is a hero and a great example for all of standing up for what is right, regardless of what you are up against. One shareholder changed the outcome of a multi-billion dollar court battle against the largest of foes. Amazing.
**tips hat**
I think this is the first post I have ever agreed with you on.
This is as clear as it gets: "The key thing I am looking for in settlement is .1) Equity SURVIVAL, and 2.) Increasing value potential."
As you mentioned, it probably won't be face for the preferreds and $ land for the commons but, it will ensure we have survived this three year nightmare and have increasing value moving forward.
The 2X value, all or nothing and the $24 Denke clones will be screaming, but value over time is a much better scenario than wondering if we will survive the next POR.
Thank God for our EC and everyone who has had a hand in getting us to where we are now.
Hopefully they will be drafting docs this weekend for announcement next week. If we are almost at the end, it's been a long time coming.
Enjoy your weekend everyone.
Again, I agree completely. Why would we give up the bird in the hand (settlement) for a "chance" to get a recovery through litigation. We all thought we had a sure case at the beginning of this WAMU mess but after three years, a lot of what we thought would happen, didn't.
Shares in a new company will increase in time and can have the same end result as successful litigation. But, your risk is greatly decreased. If the litigation only route is unsuccessful, you are left with nothing. To me, this hero or zero talk on the boards is foolish.
A settlement, giving us some cash for the preferreds and shares in the new company, with a litigation fund is the way to go.
They are showing 200 shares on the ask at about 24.10 but I've seen about 2,000 shares go through at that price. Crooks.
Thanks Jack and I agree. I also think we will get about 10-20% cash for the preferreds and shares in the NewCo that will bring value over time. Considering where we were in Jan, this would be a huge victory and we can all watch the value of our new shares rise, without the uncertainty this BK has shackled us with.
Good luck to all and may we have a happy ending soon.
**sigh** I'm hoping this is sarcasm as it's so out of touch from where we are in this case.
Yes, we are in mediation but until the FDIC and Chase are included, the potential for huge numbers like this do not exist. Even if they are included, they are not looking to give up an additional $17 billion so the commons have $10 per share. They won't even give up the $4 billion of our own money.
It's sad where we are but, it's where we are.
I think we will have a settlement and it will be more than we have now, but less than the pie in the sky numbers seen on the boards.
Ilene,
When you get a chance, can you describe the Judge's non-verbals when she was discussing Judge Lyons? From the audio, it appeared she was very comfortable with him and it sounded like he was already aware of the shenanigans by the way she echoed his comments of a Nov 7th mediation deadline.
I got the feeling this is a good choice and would like to hear your thoughts.
Thanks.
Thanks Mordicai. I always appreciate your opinion.
Mordicai,
Do you think these appeals were just filed to meet the cutoff? I have not read them yet (at work) but I can't think of what final judgment they would be appealing.
Thanks.
This is probably one of the most honest assessments of where we stand now that I have seen to date.
Thanks.
Yes, she added "including the court." when she said she would reserve the right of parties to object to the fees.
I caught that as well and seemed to say it with a little emphasis....
Did I hear it the same as you?
Thanks! I really appreciate your updates.
Yep. It was towards. I'm listening closely to her tone to see what that means.
Her pushback on Rosen about another case was encouraging.
Voodoo,
You may have already seen it but this came out last night:
Notice of Partial Withdrawal [Docket No. 7951]
http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229110817000000000012.pdf
"NOTICE OF PARTIAL WITHDRAWAL [DKT. NO. 7951]
Aurelius Capital Management, LP (“Aurelius”) hereby withdraws the portion of the Objection of Aurelius Capital Management, LP to Confirmation of the Modified Sixth Amended Joint Plan of Affiliated Debtors Pursuant to Chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code (Dkt. No. 7951; Filed 6/22/11) (the “Objection”) that relates to the reasonableness of the Amended Global Settlement Agreement.2 For the avoidance of doubt, the portion of the Objection withdrawn by Aurelius is the portion set forth in the section of the Objection entitled “The Amended Global Settlement Agreement Should Not Be Approved” at pages 12-15. Nothing contained herein shall constitute a waiver or withdrawal by Aurelius of other positions, objections or arguments contained in the Objection, all of which are hereby expressly preserved.
Over the last three years, Aurelius has steadfastly endeavored to expedite this proceeding. Aurelius filed the Objection after witnessing many delays inflict several hundred million dollars of loss to the PIERS, with no dependable end in sight. Since Aurelius is encouraged by the subsequent progress made toward confirmation, Aurelius would rather withdraw its Objection than have such Objection be a potential source of further delay and attendant loss. As a result, Aurelius is withdrawing the aspect of its Objection concerning the Amended Global Settlement Agreement but nevertheless reserves its right to re-assert that objection if the Court denies confirmation of the Modified Sixth Amended Plan or if there is any further delay in implementation of the Amended Global Settlement Agreement."
Thanks Mordicai.
Courtesy of Wmish:
http://wmish.com/docs/810/8423.pdf
Thanks to all for your hard work and tireless efforts!
I put him on ignore weeks ago. Even had to clear out another basher to make room but it was well worth it.
3,800 shares on the bid and only 200 on the ask. Nice!
I agree. You have to know your opposition and you have to try to match up your cross examinations to your benefit as much as possible.
He got the guy to basically admit to insider trading with no ethical walls during and after confidentially periods. What else do you want? Listen to the substance and not the tone of voice.
He is doing a great job.
I've never seen someone forget so much without a severe blow to the head.
UZ,
Have you seen anything on the release issues? I don't recall that the debtors made any major changes from when it was denied last time.
Thanks.
Got ya. Happy belated birthday by the way. Hope you were able to get away from the board for a little while and enjoy it!
Love to hear more on your JPM fly on the wall one day...
I love your posts but you lost me on this one. :)
I hope we don't. I would love the possibility that something bigger may be going on behind the scenes.