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Not if they don't put the right players on the field, they do not help on the bench/
Great game, I thought right from the beginning that France was going to be the Champions again. Beautiful game.
Team to watch in 2026 -- USA. 2nd youngest FIFA WC 2022. Well coached. Heaps of money and 332 million people behind them .. 2026 USA.
Superlative! Best game ever for mine. Argentina well up 1st half. France wonderful in the 2nd. Congratulation to the referee too,
Who is World Cup final referee Szymon Marciniak? League, background and experiences from key FIFA appointment
Hal Fish 16 Dec 2022 07:41+11:00
https://www.goal.com/en-au/news/who-is-world-cup-final-referee-szymon-marcinia/blt8934d7554823666e
who did everything right. Thanks heaps again for starting the board.
One hell of a final and I'm happy that Messi and Di Maria got their WC wins.
As they say in baseball it's a hell of a walk off.
Incredible!! Congratulations to Messi and Argentina for the win. And to Mbappé
for being the 2nd in history to get three goals in a World Cup final.
No player under the age of 24 has scored more goals than the Frenchman. Geoff Hurst was the only
other player to score a hat-trick, with his treble coming in 1966 final for England against Germany.
https://sportstar.thehindu.com/football/fifa-world-cup/news/kylian-mbappe-second-player-hurst-fifa-world-cup-final-hattrick-argentina-vs-france-qatar-2022/article66279378.ece
And to France for never giving up.
Argentina World Champs -- what a Game !!!!
Argentina World Champs -- what a Game !!!!
And France and Mbappe answers back.
Argentina head and shoulders, 2 goals better. All the patterned passing on their side. Oh well, though pocket was on France
heart was always with Messi. So all just admiration for the 2nd Argentinian goal. Messi key early in that one too.
And Di Maria is playing on another level.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81ngel_Di_Mar%C3%ADa
Messi is next to impossible to stop from scoring on a penalty kick.
About one in five in the world watching live. Woke at the perfect time. Now
back to bed to watch in warmth and comfort. Good to be here. Lucky us.
Go France.
Which brings us to yet another little trivia tidbit
Sadly for Messi, he has yet to win a World Cup for Argentina. The closest he has come so far in his career was back in 2014 when his side lost in the final against Germany in what was a repeat of the 1990 final featuring Maradona. On that occasion, of course, Maradona and Argentina also came up short.
After the 2014 final in Brazil, Messi was awarded the Golden Ball as the best player of the tournament after being the joint-third highest goal scorer, with four goals and an assist, while he also created the most chances of any individual player. That will have been of scant consolation given it was such a gut-wrenching defeat for him and his team-mates after so much expectation.
https://www.eurosport.com/football/world-cup/2022/has-lionel-messi-won-a-world-cup-before-is-qatar-his-last-world-cup-how-many-did-diego-maradona-win_sto9271597/story.shtml
Either Messi gets his WC or France repeats.
Morocco came particularly close twice, but looks like you've got your match.
That is the match up I'm waiting for. Mbappe vs Messi.
It was a good reason. i had my little $5 on France for two reasons. Had to have a bet, didn't i. And i'd just read an article on Mbappe.
I didn't either. You're more likely than not right on the black and white thought now. Though no doubt racism would be in some of the top people's minds, bottom line would be money talks. Though there would have been lots of historical racism in that likely racism takes a relative back seat these days. Hope so, anyway.
I'll read this tomorrow. It’s the End of the World Cup As We Know It
With the next men’s World Cup set to expand to 48 teams, enjoy this one last tournament of structural perfection.
Brian Straus Nov 15, 2022
https://www.si.com/soccer/2022/11/15/world-cup-format-expansion-48-teams-2026-fifa
I'm sure there must be quibbles with his "structural perfection", still you're probably on the right track with the "stinkers"
thoughts. Then again millions will probably love to see their teams there irregardless of what happens then.
the African teams are historically ranked at the bottom of the rankings---4 years is a long time but the 2026 Cup expansion to 48 teams will likely result in some stinkers...
One of the reasons I picked my final 4 was that Messi, Neymar and Ronaldo are playing in their last WCs.
Of course the USA was a heart pick.
I did not realize the disparity between Europe, SA and the rest of the world.
I'm not sure it is white dominance as opposed to Europe and SA leading in soccer compared to everyone else.
It is sort of like baseball and the Olympics.
As for Messi he and Argentina are on a mission.
‘Sporting god’ Messi drops all-time masterclass as Argentina reach WC final
OH NOOOOO. Poor Manuel Neuer. I relate in a tiny way, broke femur near top in about
1960 on a high school ski trip to Mt Baker, Washington. He'll enjoy his time off though.
VIDEO -- Messi takes the mickey in ABSURD display | 01:03
Zac Rayson from Fox Sports
December 14th, 2022 8:26 am
A virtuosic performance from all-time great Lionel Messi tore apart Croatia to book Argentina a place in the Qatar World Cup decider.
Four years ago, Croatia stunned the Albiceleste 3-0 in the group stage in Russia as talisman Luka Modric led the European nation to a stunning runners-up finish.
This time around, Messi and 22-year-old striker Julian Alvarez claimed revenge in emphatic fashion, winning 3-0 at Lusail Stadium.
Argentina struck twice in five first-half minutes to blow what had been a tense semi-final wide open, before Messi set up a third goal in the 69th minute with a sublime run that capped a remarkable individual effort.
More - https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/world-cup/fifa-world-cup-2022-argentina-vs-croatia-semi-final-live-scores-blog-lionel-messi-luka-modric-start-time-fixtures-how-to-watch/news-story/a11d88da2e338ee4b8bac2a950dccc49
Yep, Morocco is the first African and Arab team to make it to the semis. Heard that a couple of days ago. Didn't know
"Consider the World Cup slots set aside for Europe and Africa: Each continent has nearly the same
number of teams. But Europe got 13 qualifying slots for the 2022 World Cup, while Africa got just five."
That a good stat. No one should be surprised. Just more evidence of continuing
white dominance. LOL it's a difficult privilege for toooo many whites to give up.
Slowly but surely though. It's inevitable. And why not. Who cares about color. Heh, yeah some do
too much in places others have grown out of. Some will still though. Long after we have gone.
Messi rose to the top today. Cream spoke.
Some things I didn't know in bold.
The Power of History
Morocco could end European and South American dominance over the World Cup.
By German Lopez
Dec. 13, 2022, 6:39 a.m. ET
You’re reading The Morning newsletter. Make sense of the day’s news and ideas. David Leonhardt and Times journalists guide you through what’s happening — and why it matters.
If you watched all of the 21 previous men’s World Cups, you would see winners and runners-up from only two continents: Europe and South America.
This year’s World Cup could be different now that Morocco has qualified for the semifinals, making it the first African country to get this far in the soccer tournament.
Morocco will play France, the reigning champion, tomorrow. (The other semifinal match, today, is another European and South American affair: Croatia versus Argentina.) If Morocco beats France, it will be the first country outside of Europe and South America to make it to the final.
Today’s newsletter will look at why two continents have dominated the world’s most popular sport for so long.
Self-fulfilling prophecy
History is reflected in today’s World Cup. The tournament was a European invention, first held in 1930 by soccer’s global governing body, FIFA, after disagreements with the Olympics’ handling of the sport. European powers also spread the game more widely in places they had colonized, and it quickly took off in South America. The first World Cup was even hosted by a South American country, Uruguay.
That history gave Europe and South America a head start, which over time turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy. European and South American countries had historical roots in the World Cup and performed better in the tournament, so organizers made room for more teams from those continents. But because Europe and South America got more slots, other continents had fewer chances to break out.
Consider the World Cup slots set aside for Europe and Africa: Each continent has nearly the same number of teams. But Europe got 13 qualifying slots for the 2022 World Cup, while Africa got just five.
Money also plays a role. Based in some of the richest countries in the world, European leagues, teams and governments can spend more on developing better soccer players and programs. The world’s best players go to Europe to play in its highly lucrative professional leagues, widely seen as the major leagues of men’s soccer. “Europe is the bank of football,” said my colleague Rory Smith, who is in Qatar covering the World Cup.
Because of its historical success in soccer, South America also has more infrastructure than other continents to develop players and host top-notch, competitive leagues. It’s another way that the self-fulling prophecy has played out.
Public interest matters, too. The U.S. is a very wealthy country, but it has historically done poorly at the World Cup. That trend is partly explained by American apathy toward the sport; a star athlete in the U.S. is more likely to follow the culture, fame and money to, say, American football instead of soccer.
All of these factors culminate in soccer’s social networks — the conferences, leagues, teams, training grounds and informal gatherings in which players and coaches learn to perform at their best. Europe and, to a lesser extent, South America are at the center of these networks. These networks then perpetuate European and South American dominance.
Notably, Morocco is closely tied to the European network: It neighbors Spain, and many of its players were born in Europe and play in its professional leagues. “They all have access to European ideas about soccer’s best practices,” Rory said.
Changing times
Is Europe’s and South America’s grip over soccer easing? Morocco’s success is one sign that it may be. And so is Qatar’s hosting of the current World Cup, far from the European and South American centers of power.
The next World Cup could shake up the game further. Its initial rounds will include 48 teams, up from 32, allowing for more geographic diversity in who qualifies. (And a huge shift from the just 13 teams that participated in the first World Cup, in 1930.)
Still, there are also signs that little has changed. The other three teams remaining in this year’s World Cup are from Europe or South America. If anything, Europe has become more dominant, even over South America, in recent years: European teams have won the previous four World Cups, dating to 2006.
So it’s too early to know if Morocco’s success is a sign of a bigger shift for African teams. “It’s hard to say whether this is the start of something, because we have not seen it before,” said my colleague Tariq Panja, who is also in Qatar covering the World Cup. “It has to happen again to make it a trend.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/13/briefing/morocco-world-cup.html
As kids in BC we got bored with baseball too. And test cricket is still boring as hell for me, but old guys who have grown up with it still love it. I wouldn't be keen on sitting for four hours at any tennis match either. One day cricket is as interesting a spectator sport if not more than baseball. I'd guess there are more spectacular catches on average. Personally i don't sit and watch anything any more without doing other stuff too. Unless am at a friends house. As you know, like so much else in life much of what we enjoy or don't is just what we have grown up with. Just more conditioning is all.
I forgot about water polo but I was never much of a swimmer to begin with.
Several years ago I worked with a bunch of people from India cross training them and they were hooked on soccer. We took them to a baseball game and they left in the 8th inning since they got bored. They missed the home run barrage at the end.
And cricket is one sport I'm totally lost on.
Actually in soccer some time is spent off play and moving easily. And goalies have heaps of time off. Football (soccer) is rated 26 here.
The World's Fittest Sports - What You Think
There are individual athletes from a large range of sports which would be considered extremely fit, whichever way you define fitness (see info about the world's greatest athlete). However, here we are interested in the SPORT which requires the greatest demands of fitness. As fitness is not defined by just one component like endurance, speed or strength, the world's fittest sport would be one that requires the highest level overall on a wide range of factors.
We have come up with a list of factors of success in sports, and ranked just the fitness components of these for a range of sports to create our list of the World's Fittest Sports. In a similar process used by ESPN (Most Demanding Sports .. https://www.topendsports.com/world/lists/fittest-sport/espn.htm ), by rating each of these factors in a whole range of sports .. https://www.topendsports.com/resources/polls/sport/factors-of-success-sport-list.htm , the profile of each sport can be compared to determine the sport ranked highest in terms of these fitness and sport psychology factors. See also my ranking of fittest sports .. https://www.topendsports.com/world/lists/fittest-sport/calculation.htm .. using the same method as below. These sports rating figures are also being used to compare sports 'head to head .. https://www.topendsports.com/head2head/sports/index.htm ', with interesting results so far.
[ Outed from that last link - American Football (NFL) v Aussie Rules (AFL)
https://www.topendsports.com/head2head/sports/afl-gridiron.htm ]
Water Polo is your Fittest Sport
The following ranking is based on your ratings of just the main trainable fitness components (aerobic, strength/power, speed, flexibility and agility) of the factors of success, with a weighting giving more leverage for aerobic power, then strength and speed, with the least effect of agility and flexibility.
water polo is one of the world's fittest sports
Water polo was considered the most overall physically demanding sport based on your ratings.
This table was created December 2019 - the ratings are still being made so the rankings are expected to change over time. You can add your rating too. There are over 50 sports being rated, however there may be other sports that could score as well as these if they were included.
Ranking Sport Overall Fitness Rating (%)
1 Water Polo 80.3
2 Rugby 7s 79.6
3 American Football 79.3
4 Ultimate 79.3
5 Martial Arts 79.1
6 Boxing 79.0
https://www.topendsports.com/world/lists/fittest-sport/your-list.htm
While every player gives his all to win the World Cup, their clubs breathe a sigh of relief when they get their stars back healthy to resume their seasons----this won't be the case for Manuel Neuer, perhaps the best 'keeper on the planet who plays for Bayern Munich and was also between the pipes for the 2014 German World Cup winning squad...
when Germany got knocked out of this year's Cup, Neuer went skiing on his unexpected (and unwanted) time off---and broke his leg, ending his Bundesliga season along with his Champions League title hopes...
Dreams crushed but back to the day job. These players will need our patience and understanding
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Dec 12, 2022
79
When the final whistle went on Saturday evening, the England players looked like they had lost the World Cup final. Harry Kane had to be propped up by sympathetic team-mates. Declan Rice almost had to be peeled off the grass. Harry Maguire struggled to get to his feet. It was a moment of immense pain and sadness for the England players, and understandably so.
None of the players would have wanted to say this in public but they must have felt that the France game was a final before the final. Win it and they would have one foot in next Sunday’s decider, and a winnable game at that.
And there must have been moments in the course of Saturday evening’s game — not least when Kane was preparing his second penalty against Hugo Lloris — that the England players might have imagined their own path from that point onwards. Overcome France in extra time. Back up to the Al Bayt on Wednesday night for Morocco in the semis, with far more experience and confidence than they had facing Croatia at that stage in 2018. It would only be human at that point to think about what might follow after that.
But instead England are flying home, with their dreams shattered. France will be playing Morocco instead, and must be favourites now to be the first team since Brazil 60 years ago to retain this trophy.
Kane looked distraught after his miss (Photo: Julian Finney/Getty Images)
It is the kind of disappointment that takes months to get over. Imagine for an instant if this was a normal World Cup in a normal year. Imagine that the France game took place not on December 10th in Qatar but on July 10th in Russia, Brazil, South Africa, Germany or almost literally anywhere else in the world. Under those circumstances the players would always be given three weeks of break before coming back for pre-season. They would get back up to speed, slightly slower than their team-mates. They may even miss the very start of the new season. And there would be a general understanding that they had been through a physically and emotionally draining process. It would take them a while to get back to their best.
(This is an area where you do not need to be an elite professional footballer to get a very vague sense of the feeling. Anyone who has ever put a huge amount of physical, mental and emotional effort into one particular project or event or cycle will be familiar with the feeling of being spent when it is over, of emptiness, of the struggle to go back to the well to dredge up some more motivation for your next challenge. Now imagine all that but the event is the biggest show on the planet, and rather than ending in the best moment of your professional life, as you thought it would, it ended in pain and tears instead.)
Under these circumstances we would generally make allowances for players taking a while to get back to their best. They might even take until Christmas to rediscover their rhythm and motivation and start playing their best football again.
Now think about this dynamic but transplanted into the current context. These England players are going to have to return quicker than normal to get ready for the resumption of the club football calendar. There is a full calendar of Premier League games spread from 26 to 28 December, with seven of those games on Boxing Day.
Mount, Sterling and Rice at full-time (Photo: Matthias Hangst/Getty Images)
Tottenham play the first game back at Brentford at 12.30pm on Boxing Day, meaning that if Spurs take kick-off then Kane, of all people, will be the player to get the Premier League campaign back underway. If anyone deserves more special sympathy — not that he would want it — it is Kane, whose penalty miss makes him the public face of this defeat, in a way which was instantly apparent as soon as his kick sailed over the bar. He came to Qatar seeking the World Cup, his first major trophy, the England goals record, and perhaps a signature big-game moment in his career. He will wait elsewhere for all of that.
But there are even domestic games before Boxing Day: with Manchester United playing in the League Cup on December 21, and Manchester City playing Liverpool in the same competition the following day. It might be that managers spare their returning players for those matches but there is no question at all that teams will want to be at full strength for the league games straight after Christmas. And that means that the players will be put through the bizarre situation of playing Premier League football just 16 days after their desert heartbreak against France. The same applies to Portugal’s stars.
That leaves them hardly any time at all to go home, have a break, return to their clubs and start training for the resumption. Different clubs have slightly different approaches on this. Arsenal expect Aaron Ramsdale and Bukayo Saka back at the end of this week, giving them slightly more time to prepare for their Boxing Day game with West Ham. Manchester City want John Stones, Kyle Walker, Phil Foden, Jack Grealish and Kalvin Phillips back in the middle of the following week, before the Liverpool game. West Ham United have given Declan Rice 10 days off. Spurs will give Kane between eight and 10 days before he has to come back.
So a short break then, and less than one week of training for most players before they have to play again in the league. On the physical side the players should be fine. This is not pre-season — the players have been keeping in good condition during the course of the World Cup. Those who did not go to Qatar got at most two weeks off, and so did those whose teams were knocked out early. They should be able to get back up to speed soon enough.
But mentally? Of course, it is unknowable really what emotions will be going through them over the next few weeks and when the grind of the club game comes back. But it feels plausible to say at the very least that these players will struggle to summon up the same levels of motivation they had here in Qatar.
Maybe we will all be surprised and the players will be so desperate to prove a point they will come back better than ever, taking out some of their frustrations on the second half of the domestic season. But right now it does not quite have that feeling. And if the England squad do struggle, they deserve a bit of leeway from fans, media, even their own team-mates and employers.
These England players are only human and they have gone through an experience which must in its own way be crushing. They have spent years building up to this point, making plans, conserving energy, keeping themselves fit, always with the Qatar World Cup in their minds. Now that their World Cup is over they will have to find new targets, new energies, new sources of motivation, and that will take longer than it will take for the Premier League treadmill to resume. They deserve our patience.
(Photo: Julian Finney/Getty Images)
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Jack Pitt-Brooke is a football journalist for The Athletic based in London. He joined in 2019 after nine years at The Independent.
https://theathletic.com/3990816/2022/12/12/england-world-cup-premier-league/
Messi is another player who is probably playing in his last WC at 35. The pressure on him must be enormous. American football is relatively tame in comparison. They play for 60 minutes and take 30 seconds between plays. Granted it's hard hitting but I think soccer takes more endurance.
I also think tennis is extremely tough to play competitively. It is a young person's game and people like Nadal and Federer only come around once in a generation.
LOL good one. Tough at the top,eh. Guess more than anything else it's just that the top teams are so closely matched
it's hard to say which team is the best. Ranks come from performances over time, but on any one day.... like golf too.
Agree it's one of the toughest to play for the reason you give, running all the time. Have thought that forever. Haven't looked but the only thing i've read about how Kane felt was him saying he would have to live with it. That's the thing about sport at any level, but most of all at the highest levels. No one can be perfect. Just would be so hard for those top guys to swallow, but again that's part of the deal. Part of them being there. And yep, who would have picked the semifinalists. Though could have picked Croatia .. https://indianexpress.com/article/fifa/fifa-world-cup-2018-schedule-semi-final-fixtures-timings-5248986/ .. who were there with France, England and Belgium in 2018. And they are ranked 12. Morocco not that far away at 22.
this year. Semis 2022 -- Argentina 3 v Croatia 12 and France 4 v Morocco 22
https://fanbanter.co.uk/sam-matterface-under-fire-for-mocking-harry-kane-with-comment-after-penalty-miss-vs-france/
Sadly Sh*t happens.
Absolutely gutted. We’ve given it everything and it’s come down to a small detail which I take responsibility for. There’s no hiding from it, it hurts and it’ll take some time to get over it but that’s part of sport. pic.twitter.com/lw5Esl4fnA
— Harry Kane (@HKane) December 11, 2022
interesting tidbit since the fifa ranking came into play. The number one ranked team heading into world cup has never won the tournament, which this year was brazil.
I think it is one of the toughest sports to play considering they are basically running for 90 minutes and the margins of winning or losing comes down to one goal. Add in the pressure of playing for your country and even making it to the WC then on to the knockout round and win or go home for 4 years.
It's tough to play Monday morning quarterback regarding the penalty or missing the penalty kick after the fact is what I am saying.
Best thing I read was
Harry Kane has scored 53 goals for England but he’ll now probably be best remembered for the one he didn’t. Such is FOOTBALL ⚽️
— Ian Doyle (@IanDoyleSport) December 10, 2022
Belgium FIFA rank 2, Italy 6, Denmark 10, Germany 11 didn't make the final 16
this year. Semis 2022 -- Argentina 3 v Croatia 12 and France 4 v Morocco 22
https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/men?dateId=id13792
"...that's football."
Thanks for the insight.
i agree kane bottled it up. He is one of the best penalty takers. But's that's football.
Umm, BullNBear52, maybe you have a problem with the term i used. In suggesting brainsnaps occurred i was not taking
away from the overall performance of the two teams. To clarify: by brainsnaps i simply meant an oops under pressure.
The France player who created the penalty guessing would have had 2nd thoughts about his push. And i wonder
how Kane would describe his miss. If i had said oops under pressure would you have jumped as you did.
It's been a long time.
There were no brain snaps. It was two teams playing their hearts out to continue on. It is ridiculous to say either side screwed up mentally in the heat of the match.
A France brainsnap created the penalty. A Kane brainsnap created the miss. You
know more than i obviously re England and penalty kicks. You got one of the top two
.. https://www.90min.com/posts/which-world-cup-team-is-the-worst-at-penalty-shootouts .
I don't have a problem with him unless he says something differently he sat on the bench and played his heart out when he got in the game.
yeah typical england another heartbreak. What is up with england and penalty kicks. They always miss em when the game is on the line.
OOps, Kane on 2nd penalty chance. Two friends in Sydney are watching the game at Cheers Sports Bar .. https://www.sportingnews.com/au/soccer/news/watch-world-cup-games-pubs-live-sites-sydney-australia-2022-fifa/cankd9rl8okfcyd1isasis0a .. with other keen, guessing mostly English fans.
She helps me stay off the pokies, her fiancee is the really keen soccer fan. Their disappointment
now is the only thing that takes the shine off the present situation for me.
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