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boy nobody has posted here in a long time,i have'nt been on ihub long but what relly sucks are the pumpers who show up on the same day their alias is created and throw out a bunch of one line bs."to the moon","up we go"."i see green",all i can say is fu all.you suck. go away.
Tuesday February 05 09:17 AM EST
Are There Other Universes?
By Andrew Chaikin
Editor, Space & Science, SPACE.com
The irresistible, mind-boggling fantasy comes to just about everyone, sooner or later: What if everything we knew, our whole universe, was just a speck of dust on someone's shoulder?
Of course, that's not an idea astronomers take seriously. But many cosmologists are giving serious thought to a more scientific question: Do other universes exist?
At first glance, you can't help but wonder how anyone could have the chutzpah to ask a question like that. We can barely figure out this universe, and now we're wondering about others?
Believe it or not, theorists have an answer. And the answer appears to be, Yes.
To understand why, you have to go back to the Big Bang, that mysterious, mother-of-all-explosions that most astronomers believe spawned our universe. One second, according to theory, there was nothingness. The next, our cosmos sprang into existence. Nature seems to have pulled off the feat of getting something ¾ in fact, everything ¾ for nothing.
As unimaginable as that sounds, it comes straight out of the theory of quantum mechanics, a set of mathematical rules that describe how the universe works on the smallest scales, inside atoms. Quantum mechanics says that matter and energy can appear spontaneously out of the vacuum of space, thanks to something called a quantum fluctuation, a sort of hiccup in the energy field thought to pervade the cosmos.
Cosmologists say that a quantum fluctuation gave rise to the Big Bang. And the thing about quantum fluctuations is that they can happen anywhere, any time. And if our universe was born out of a quantum fluctuation, say theorists, then it's possible that other quantum fluctuations could have spawned other universes.
There's a reason some theorists want other universes to exist: They believe it's the only way to explain why our own universe, whose physical laws are just right to allow life, happens to exist. According to the so-called anthropic principle, there are perhaps an infinite number of universes, each with its own set of physical laws. And one of them happens to be ours. That's much easier to believe, say the anthropic advocates, than a single universe "fine-tuned" for our existence.
But there's a problem. If these other universes exist, there's no way for us to detect them.
Of course, as Arizona State astronomer Chris Impey points out, there are parts of our own cosmos that we can't observe, because light from those extremely distant realms hasn't had time to reach us. "We know that our own physical universe is substantially, maybe enormously larger, than the visible universe," Impey says.
That doesn't mean, however, that Impey is prepared to accept the idea of other universes. For one thing, he says, cosmologists don't really understand the nature of quantum fluctuations, "because we don’t have any quantum gravity theory yet." That means the idea of multiple fluctuations, and multiple universes, is "truly speculative."
Other astronomers are even more forceful in their resistance to the idea.
"It's not a testable idea," says Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University. Because the different universes would not be detectable by one another, he says, "You can't really prove it exists or doesn't exist." When you talk about multiple universes, Steinhardt says, you're not talking about science anymore. "In my view, you're into metaphysics."
Not everyone rejects the multiple-universe idea out of hand. At the University of California, Virginia Trimble is more accepting. "I find it neat. In much the same way that I think it would be neat if there were reincarnation."
Not exactly a resounding scientific endorsement.
But Andreas Albrecht, a cosmologist at the University of California at Davis, says the question isn't open for debate. Why? You can't argue with quantum mechanics. "As far as we can tell," Albrecht says, "that's the fundamental language that Nature speaks. Nature doesn't answer questions for certain; it answers questions by giving probabilities."
And in quantum mechanics, "There's a possibility that almost anything happens." Including other universes. And if cosmologists are queasy about that, they don't have a choice. "It comes out of the mathematics," Albrecht explains. "It's forced down our throats."
"Quantum mechanics will not give up these other alternatives on its own," says Albrecht. "And we really don't know what to make about that. On one hand it sounds totally metaphysical. On the other hand, it's all we have to work with at the moment."
So, how would Albrecht answer Impey, and Steinhardt, and others who challenge the idea of a multiple universe?
"I would say, 'Your instincts are great, but do something with them. Give me a theory that doesn't have multiple universes.' And they'd be stuck."
That's not to say Albrecht agrees with the anthropic advocates. All the "fine-tuning" which they believe is too good to be true, is only true for life as we know it. Of the advocates, Albrecht says, "They don't know a thing about life. They don't know what it takes to have life in the universe. There could be forms of life out there that we haven't even thought of! It's really stupid."
There is no shortage of published scientific papers, articles, and books on the anthropic theory, including some by experienced cosmologists. And there's some good science involved in these studies, Albrecht says, if you take out the stuff about the anthropic principle.
"People get into these studies because they are intrigued because there are real scientific issues to address. Then they say, 'Oh, this looks familiar, I'd better call it anthropic,' and they start using all these buzz words. But they [alienate] a large part of the scientific community when they do that. It's a kind of sloppiness."
"Science is about trying not to be sloppy, but it's hard because we're human. This is an example of our humanity creeping in and getting in the way of sheer rationality. I think with time it will get much better."
"In the end," Albrecht says, "we may understand that there are a bunch of other universes, but it won't be the way the anthropic guys want…. There's a lot of room between the total smorgasbord that the anthropic people want, and just having a few extra universes around."
Next page: Could other universes be detected?
But if these other universes do exist, are we really destined never to detect them? Some theorists have speculated that gravitational energy from other universes might leak into ours, and that someday we might figure out how to detect it. But even the most open-minded cosmologists say that's a long shot at best.
"That is also pure speculation," says Impey. "It’s maybe reasonable speculation, but it’s speculation in a very similar vein to the speculation of someone like Kip Thorne about wormholes and time travel and white holes and black holes. It’s very careful speculation by a highly trained theoretical physicist who knows what the boundary of the current theory is."
It wouldn't be the first time that a wild idea turned out to be right.
A bit more than 100 years ago, in the second half of the 19th century, Albrecht says, most scientists didn't accept the idea that matter was composed of atoms ¾ an idea supported not by direct observation, but by inferences based on theories of temperature, heat, and viscosity.
"Atomic theory had some great things to say about that, and seemed to give a consistent, unified picture," Albrecht says, but "the majority of physicists at that time didn't really believe atoms existed; they thought it was just some flight of fancy."
Like quantum mechanics, Albrecht ponts out, atomic theory was a construction that went way beyond what anyone could see 100 years ago. And if it's a challenge for scientists now to embrace wild ideas like other universes, he says, that just comes with the territory.
"So far, everything we've done to try to understand the universe has pulled us out of our shell, so to speak, and made us think about things that are way beyond what we see, and way beyond what we'll see in the foreseeable future. So we're just stuck with that… Unfortunately, it's part of the nature of always being at the frontier of what we understand."
Law Enforcement Related Discussion - http://www.investorshub.com/boards/board.asp?board_id=938
Watch out for JOHN M HOLLEN!!!! He "specializes" in penny
stocks and promotes them everywhere!!!! Here is a rundown of just some of his "recommendations" and what has
happened to them:
Promoted ESWW at $2.00+ and now it is around .45
Promoted TMOTQ which is now bankrupt (chpt 7 variety) and will halt soon
Promoted IVEH at .66 and is now halted, CEO arrested for securities fraud
Promoted LGOV at 1.00+ and now trades for .13
Promoted AREE at .22 and now trades for .005!
Promoted TXMC at 1.00+ and now trades for .07
Promoted ECNC at 20.00+ and now trades for .10, dozens of lawsuits from investors claiming false pr's were released,
had trading halted, SEC investigation. He even claimed to be the Director of Corporate Alliances for ECNC until the
lawsuits started flying! Now, if you ask him about his involvement with ECNC he won't even acknowledge the question!
Also, claimed to be the CEO's private pilot!!!!!!!
Promoted OPWR at 9.00 and now trades for 2.80+- (he also claimed to have a cousin working for HP who was feeding him insider info about an upcoming deal in the works between HP & OPWR)
If you want to see a hypester in motion just follow this guy around!!!!! Has dozens of screen names and is
WIDELYIGNORED by most investors after becoming acquainted with his hype. You can see his posts on the AREE board, among others. If you go there, tell him I said "hello"! LOL!!!!!!
I thought I already explained this to you privately, but maybe it was after this post. I'll answer again here, though, to clarify for anyone else who might wonder.
No thread chairperson can (currently) suspend any rules from our Terms of Use in their threads. The relevant example here would be personal attacks. The *site* has a policy of not allowing personal attacks, so any *thread* created on the site needs to comply with that rule.
Bob
Lola,
I see where JOHN M HOLLEN has had Bob remove my posts from your board. Can you tell me why this is or if I violated YOUR guidelines for posting on YOUR board?
You go dude (or dudette)! Just don't call him JohnnieBoy ... that's my nickname for my son ... other than that you can call him whatever you like as long as you obey the few rules I have in the header.
Lola:)
It would have to be adopted sister..that is for sure!
If you weren't married Tim Luke would probably be in canada right now
hahahahhahahahahahahahaha
Thank you, darlin'.
No bitterness or vindictiveness on my part. Just a sincere warning to watch out for the scams this person is running. He has conned many "newbies" and other unsuspecting people into considering very bad "investments".
Hey, is Lola's mom really Lisa's mom ??
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... I always wanted a sister ... it's an easy way to double your wardrobe at no added cost!
Maybe Lisa is my sister ... sniff sniff ... pass the Kleenex ...
Lola:)
Ah, just what this thread needed .... some bitterness ... vindictiveness .... now, it can really cook .... even if Lola's mom can't !!
Hey, is Lola's mom really Lisa's mom ??
And Sam .... there is only ONE Poet ...
J
I knew you'd appreciate the elegance of my call. -gg
I've also got a lounge, Poet's Corner, where we hang out, talk OT, and eat cookies. Feel free to hang out there too.
LOL! An after the fact call. Trying to think of someone else that does that... <grin>
Got your new thread bookmarked.
Sam
Hi Sam,
You want a sign, huh? OK: Buy OEX puts yesterday. <gg>
Yes, it's me. Somebody had already taken "poet" here before I came, so I have to settle with being the real one.
TRP... are you the real poet (as in plain-vanilla "poet") on SI? I'm trying to get my poet's straight here... I think you can understand my confusion.
If you are, give me a sign please... A nice double-my-money overnight option play will do nicely.
Sam
And she made you live in that drafty old boarding house up on the hill overlooking the harbor..<gg>
She doesn't know how to cook.<gg>
I swear you must be psychic! My mother really can't cook ... we almost starved growing up.
Lola:)
I know it's not true.
She doesn't know how to cook.<gg>
God you people are giving me a headache. <ggg> The post will stand unless you can prove it is not true ... hell even then I think I will let it stand so somebody doesn't hire a hitman to get me.
Lola:)
I demand post 30 be redeleted!!!!!!!!
You trying to make me look stupid?
Ok ok ... don't have a cow! Post 30 is restored ... my mother will be very angry.
Lola:)
I can still respond to this message... heheh
*#&$&^@
I demand that post 30 be put back
YOu are obviously showing your bias towards Godiva by deleting that post...
and by god ...we can't have a thread talking about food on a STOCK SITE unless it is related to a publicly traded company...
LOL!
I'm going to go to the kitchen now and demand the the cook (a/k/a me) fix something for dinner.
See you later, you *#$)%^. -g
Cheez Doodles?!!! That fat &*&*^(&*^ the last thing he needs is cheez doodles. Next time send him a case of slim fast.
Lola:)
Oh yeah? Then how do you explain the case of Cheez Doodles my attorney had to send to your attorney as a bribe?
I better not see a bill for a box of raspberry crown chocolates from my lawyer saying he had to buy you a box just to get you to keep quiet!
Lola:)
OK. But they'll bill you more than they bill me.
Have your attorneys call my attorneys and they'll do lunch or whatever the hell they do and bill us for it.
We do not like that at all. You will hear from our band of very angry attorneys, toot sweet!
That's it I'm banning you ... oops can I do that? Ok than I will stay up 24 hours a day monitoring your every move ... I'll zap zap zap you right out of my cyber universe! How do you like that?
Lola:)
You say that ONE MORE TIME and I'll %$#^ your *^@$ and kick it all the way to &@#$%@.
Well you're a *&()*&(*^^ and everybody knows it! HA!
Why you *#$%*&^$*.
How about that?
Just as I suspected that Lola is a Delete Queen. Post #30 is gone ... zappo. I really must stop talking to myself.
God the people on this thread are too polite. I will start with something naughty ... Lola's mother wears army boots! HA
Let's see if that Lola deletes this post.
Hey somebody post something vulgar so I can feel the thrill of deleting a post.<ggg>
Lola:)
The secret to looking thin is buying outfits that are all one color and one size too big. Trust me it works. Most women wear clothes that are one size too small for them thinking it will make them feel thinner but it only makes them look fatter which makes them feel fatter.
Lola:)
I'll only eat it when they make a calorie-free version. There are far more worthy ways of getting my calories. Like French food and good wine.
Gawd I'm hungry.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... you may be on to something there ... I'll try it and report back my findings.
You mean not every woman sips it through a straw? -g
SInce I ain't gotta a body like L-O-L-A..despite us both having L's in our name....
I can't eat that stuff except when it goes on sale
I never noticed that with the men in my life ... it must have something to do with the way you eat your ice cream.<ggg>
You're so right.
Have you all ever noticed that guys ADORE ice cream? Is this a gender thing? I like it, but am not as crazy about it as the men in my life have been.
That sounds almost erotic! Actually erotic is real raspberries half dipped in chocolate ... they melt in your hands almost but you can only get them a few weeks out of the year.
Lola:)
That would be the world's deadliest ice cream. Imagine: Vanilla ice cream with raspberry swirls and whole raspberry crowns running through it.
Told you so. tee hee
I've been dieting for six days. Even talking about chocolate feels sinful at this point.
I don't think they have it in the ice cream but I never checked. Damn what a good idea that would be. We should suggest it.
Lola:)
yeah, AND you both have O's in your name
do they have it in the ice cream?
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