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And we will see how that works out for them!
Although an irrelevant and not well thought out accustation...of something that first probabky didn;t happen and if it did ISN'T ILLEGAL ...so what difference does it make?
There certainly was a deluded, totally ignorant buyer for every share of the totally fraudulent scam of a stock though.
Those people lost their money to someone. Someone not sumb enough to go long on it!
Sorry to say, but not an easy task. SEC and FINRA has copies of all trading activity on this or any other security, but very tight-fisted with the records.
My advice would be to read through the court transcripts and draw your own conclusion. Again, this is only a little project I am working on, so don't know all the details, but somewhere in those transcripts I believe judge allowed a company representative and, in turn, gave permission to rep to obtain necessary doc's to put entire trading puzzle together.
Others I have done research on confirm what is being stated here. Only in case of Taser and a few others has NSS been exposed. Lawsuits are timely and costly against people hiding behind a curtain. Much easier for SEC to go after company, as principles are known. For either ease for SEC or an assortment of other reasons, SEC normally begins and ends at company level.
Not sure about conspiracy theories, but SEC seems to be looking in both directions now, and revocation is taking much longer than normal, as others have alluded to here.
Long answer to short question, but suggestion is to follow BK case. Most all answers can be found there. Will you ever see any of your investment? Chances are not in your favor, but judge is federal and not taking crap from anyone, including (if not especially) Trustee. He seems to want everything sorted out before making a ruling. Will that include NSS? The trading patterns indicate a high likelihood.
they don't exist.
you were praising SPNGQ management while they were illegally dumping 2 Billion shares on the open market and blaming NSS.
unfortunately, reality is the exact opposite.
So how do we get our money from them?
It is crazy. Even the tin foil "lady" left for *greener* pastures. Oh, wait, maybe there is something to be said about that.
"just because someone somewhere said something and someone else applied their own interpretation to it and wrote it down does not make it reliable reference material."
It does if you are grasping at straws to save face in why you invested and held SPNG!
You mean like "restricted shareholders needing permission from the SEC to sell"? Obviously they don't, just an opinion letter and the transmittal to the TA to exchange for unrestricted shares.
There is no way in hell this traded over 11B shares without NSS.
that is absolute nonsense and a weak argument backed by nothing factual.
Let's be clear and no more games. There is no way in hell this traded over 11B shares without NSS. SPNG insiders made their money and the rest was NSS manipulation. End of story.
A rather sweeping generalization for which no basis in fact is offered.
I have IOUs in my brokerage account for a stock that has less than 650,000 shares on deposit in street name at Cede & Co. Yet there are other shareholders who have tens of millions of IOUs for shares of the stock in their brokerage accounts.
Where are the street name certificates for those tens of millions of shares?
Cede & Co has less than 650,000 shares on deposit, shareholders in aggregate may have more than a billion shares of IOUs in their accounts. How will the brokers resolve this?
How will the brokers resolve their imbalances with SPNG?
Maybe they hope they can have the SPNG stock revoked, and the problem will just go away? Wasn't SPNG supposed to be revoked before Labor Day 2011? What happened? Didn't things go according to plan?
This all leads me to think that NSS is not a conspiracy, but more of a rationalization of bad behavior in the stock market, over and above any such behavior on the part of the SPNG execs.
What do you think?
for the last time, NSS in penny stocks is nothing more than a conspiracy theory peddled by those who run pump and dump scams and their naive victims.
but if you find some, please let us all know.
i am done with this nonsense, gl.
No, of course they are not public record, but available and attainable, yes.
It seems funny that the SEC would not make them public? Not to you or I, but to authorities who may have interest, like the DOJ and others.
My apologies again, but didn't make myself clear. We are in agreement that the SEC, DOJ, FBI, I don't think the DTCC as they are a private company used just in reconciliation, but the others, of course, are on the trail of the crooks, as well they should be.
But I wonder if the road took a fork somewhere along the way, and there should be bloodhounds searching both paths. What do you think? We could become famous if we actually exposed NSS in pennyland. Too easy to catch Metter, Moskowitz, and those schmucks, but a higher degree of difficulty finding the NSS. I still the Blue Sheets is a good start, but how do we get SEC to release them to us?
Yes, but trading records are available, right?
they are not public record, no.
Sometimes the paper trail seems endless, but I have done this with other stocks, and they can actually drill down to an individual trader or trading firm.
congrats, let me know when you can prove this NSS in penny stock scams like SPNG.
Let's you and I find these trading records and see how much SPNG insiders bilked the shareholders and maybe we would find NSS too.
go right ahead and try but you won't get the information you are looking for.
the SEC has that information which is exactly how they uncovered and exposed the actual crooks here, M&M.
you can continue to think that NSS exists in penny stocks but that requires also believing that not just the SEC, but also the FBI, DOJ, DTCC, etc are all in on the NSS conspiracy.
Yes, but trading records are available, right? Sometimes the paper trail seems endless, but I have done this with other stocks, and they can actually drill down to an individual trader or trading firm. Blue sheets seems the best avenue, but maybe you know of a straighter line.
With your help, maybe we can solve this puzzle.
Congratulations. Smart man. Take the money when available. Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered, right?
But you didn't answer. You seem like a bright guy. Let's you and I find these trading records and see how much SPNG insiders bilked the shareholders and maybe we would find NSS too.
Want to join me? It's just a project I am working on and help from someone who knows as much or more than me about the trading reconciliations on DTCC, Blue Sheets, NSCC, etc would be helpful in my quest.
leads me to believe you do understand there is NSS
no, i stated that i don't believe there is no NSS in penny stocks.
no dog in this fight
there is no fight, it was ended when the FBI arrested the SPNG crooks.
i had a dog in the fight though, SPNG was my most profitable stock in 2009. every single trade was a legal buy and sell, no shorting here as suggesting by those pushing the NSS theory.
So we are in agreement again. Why don't you and I figure out a way to see all trading activity during this time frame.
What do you suggest? Go to brokers, or straight to blue sheets? It would be interesting to see exactly which insiders traded how many illegal restricted shares and would also put to rest this crazy notion of mine that NSS also exists, especially in fraudulent companies.
Want to join me in this crusade?
it is virtually undetected based strictly on volume of investigations required to expose NSS. It would be an overwhelming task.
that is load of nonsense. if NSS existed in penny stocks there would be plenty of evidence, every single trade is electronically tracked and regulated.
Also agree that penny stocks are nothing to invest in. Better to take money off the table every time news hits, the old buy the rumor, sell the news is never more defined than with penny stocks.
As stated in many posts, we are in agreement on everything you and the rest here state, except to at least be open-minded enough to say there is a "possibility" that NSS exists in pennyland, probably more so than any other market because with thousands of stocks in OTC and PK, it is virtually undetected based strictly on volume of investigations required to expose NSS. It would be an overwhelming task.
Maybe you are right. I think the argument could be easily solved by getting all trading records and accounts from brokers regarding the trading of SPNG between May and Sept '09.
Maybe even the Blue Sheets would provide answers. My guess is FINRA, SEC, or even brokers could provide these details, on this or any other stock where a scam is known and NSS is prevalent...or not.
Let's pretend we are all novices here and think about this very easy-to-understand scenario.
I am a hedge fund or other institutional-type investor able to short penny stocks at a much less expensive fee than small-time investors/traders. I learn about a scam and see the scam coming to fruition as national advertising commences, knowing full well the 10K is bogus. What a perfect time to short as PPS rises. Then I make one call to a newspaper reporter known to have connections in the securities industry and whisper in her ear. Then I whisper in the SEC ear, who are obliged to act upon these whispers.
Crooks are exposed and due to DTCC lacking either the wherewithal or the balls to reconcile the trades, and the SEC allows a security to remain on FTD for months, let's face it, have short interest is nothing short of counterfeiting. Hell, if I was a hedge fund, or anyone with ability to short penny stocks at a small fee, and if I had no conscience, I would jump on that deal everytime.
Being aware of typical penny stock "investors," they rarely have the expertise to flip, but instead hold their shares to become millionaires...lol.
there are investors and there are traders, penny stocks are not an investing market 99% of the time.
If all the Eurozone countries are trying to bring legislation to prevevnt shorting on countries' debt, we know NSS exists.
you are comparing apples to watermelons. countries debts have nothing to do with penny stocks.
there has never been a single piece of credible evidence for NSS in any penny stocks. the people who promote this mystical NSS are typically scam victims who are unable to accept reality. it is also not uncommon for anyone who calls a scam a scam being accused as part of that NSS.
there is a HQ for the NSS circus, maybe you will enjoy it - http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.aspx?board_id=18322
Completely agree that flipping shares can turnover trading volume, but my point remains, on so-called Black Friday, when 550M shares were "traded" my opinion is this is the day SPNG crooks collaborated to sell their illegally unrestricted shares (the illegality being the fake opinion letters).
Being aware of typical penny stock "investors," they rarely have the expertise to flip, but instead hold their shares to become millionaires...lol.
And the folks here insisting NSS is a myth know better. If all the Eurozone countries are trying to bring legislation to prevevnt shorting on countries' debt, we know NSS exists. Swiss banks are currently in hot water over the trillions of dollars of fake sovereign debt, so NSS is not mythical, that is a given. Did it happen with SPNG? I only raise the possibility that it could, same as with any other stock.
For reference, check when G-S was fined $400M for shorting Lehman, Bear Stearns, and others, and why shorting of financials was temporarily halted in, I believe, July 2008.
for you to have closed minds regarding NSS leads me to believe there is reason for this.
that's because NSS in penny stocks is nothing more than a conspiracy peddled by scammers and perpetuated by their victims.
i suggest searching this board for 'NSS' back in 2008-2010.
here is a start...
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/MemberPostsToBoard.aspx?userid=104725&boardid=7664
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/MemberPostsToBoard.aspx?userid=153128&boardid=7664
I agree with you guys all about SPNG mgmt, but for you to have closed minds regarding NSS leads me to believe there is reason for this.
And if you reply to a post of mine, please copy entire sentence. It was a rebuttal to puppy about using using "authorized" in reference to having restriction lifted via opinion letters. We are all in agreement here, but the copy and paste took my verbiage completely out of context.
Restricted shares are ALWAYS a part of total authorized shares. For the restriction to be lifted converts them to unrestricted, thereby able to be traded in the open market.
Whether intentionally or not, puppy kept saying opinion letters authorized restricted to be traded. This discussion has no more merit, since the clarification has been made that "restricted shares are a part of the authorized share count - simple math formula - Float + Unissued + Restricted = Authorized share count."
Can't get much more simple than that and, if OBO + NOBO > Authorized Share Count, then there is uncovered short sells for a security. This is not a SPNG argument, this is a clarification of when NSS exists.
It seems more than solely selling of restricted shares (illegally) in the open market.
that's because SPNG was a highly traded stock. that means the majority of daily volume was shares being flipped repeatedly and not accumulation.
it is a fact that the crooks behind SPNG, Metter and Moskofraud, were behind the NSS fairy tale in an attempt to cover their crimes.
it is not by chance that the only penny stocks where this mythical NSS is claimed are all scams.
Thanks. Still catching up. No matter who the culprits, there was a large turnover between May and Sept '09, even if all 3B A/S in market.
It seems more than solely selling of restricted shares (illegally) in the open market. The more learned, more convincing corrupt activities on both SPNG mgmt and NSS sides of the fence.
Reading court transcriptsa is most compelling.
Anybody care to lay claim to any of this:
http://www.sec.gov/about/offices/owb/owb-awards.shtml
Especially:
SEC v. Myron Weiner
Case number: 11-cv-05731 (United States District Court for the Eastern District of New York
Case filed: November 22, 2011
Qualifying Judgment/Order: December 19, 2011
and it wasn't just the fault of mangagement, so tell him time to get over it the world didn't end. GL
if not 100% the fault of the gang of SPNG crooks ( the management )
who spent the entire time deceiving, lying and commenting securities fraud
who's fault was it?
I don't see anyone else up on federal charges
That many prople got hurt here is entirely and solely the fault of management ... and a pinch of their own greed for good measure.
It is sad. But the failure of the company was 100% as a direct result of the actions of a corrupt management. The only thing that they didn't do is make anyone buy the stock. For that, individuals can only blame themselves.
buddhas not exactly sure but i think Metter appears in court march 7th you should be able to get that info it's all public and has been posted on this board -- tale scion's posts and there is a court hearing on the mar 22 that is also of public record .. so sorry you friend is so devasted, tell him to join the club lot's of people got hurt here, and it wasn't just the fault of mangagement, so tell him time to get over it the world didn't end. GL
Hi, can anyone give me an update to as if the share holders will recover money from losses in this lawsuit?
I know someone who owned $35,000 worth of SPNG at around .20
The person is still devastated from the ordeal. The person, and all share holders, are victims of blatant fraud which is against the law to perpetrate in this country.
I believe that even if these men do not see harsh prison sentences and have their assets seized, at least the public outcry against them can be intense, with movies, episodes of American Greed, and maybe even a story in on a national news magazine that confronts what harsh, relentless, pathetic criminals these men are.
Any other professionals who associate with these men (Officers of SPNG) should also have their integrity questioned and their actions scrutinized, because association with CRIMINALS is a huge red flag.
What these men from Spongtech did was wrong, and these can be no acceptance for these men in society. While our police arrest pathetic, homeless addicts and teenages for cannabis, while letting men CRIMINAL PREDATORS, like Metter and Maskowitz, roam free?
I have not looked into it recently because I know that this type of stuff comes to a grinding halt sometimes and it takes years to play out.... I figured its about time to look into the developments.... Anyone care to provide any thoughts or info?
Thanks
Also, are there any groups of SPNG shareholders who attend the court proceedings? The person I know who was a victim claims they would like to see the sentencing of these men in person....
Could that be possible?
The IRS must be full of pranksters:
"must be claimed in the year that the criminal indictments are handed down"
Why allow the loss in the year that the criminals are ACCUSED of the crime, which is all an indictment is, when they have yet to be tried? How is that in any way connected to the timing of the loss? It doesn't even establish that there was a crime.
Anyway, you're right about the indictments having occurred in 2010, if that's really determinative.
SEC hears METTER: 17:46, after 'IT MELTED' at Noble conference.
Why Mr. Moskowitz said "IT MELTED" uh Kisslinger?
Mr. Moskowitz said, at 17:35 at an INVESTORS conference:
"...the product, just so that you know, five years ago when we first tested it, we shipped it on a UPS truck, and actually melted, when shipped across California, today..."
Now Kisslinger, tell me, if Mr. Moskowitz wanted to "scam" and sell 2 billion shares to the investors that were in front of him at that conference, why would he have said this uh?
And listen VERY carefully, at 17:46 in that same conference, just when Mr. Moskowitz said the product melted, we hear a "Uh uh" coming from METTER. A bit like he would have preferred that Mr. Moskowitz would have skipped that melting detail thing.
And at 17:56, METTER felt the URGE to add: "And we've improved on it" (ref. the product that MELTED)
At 17:56, Metter litterally cuts Mr. Moskowitz and speaks over his voice, just to make SURE that EVERYBODY in the audience full of investors DISCARDS completely from their mind the very non selling "melting" pitch Mr. Moskowitz just gave.
Listen for yourself! -> http://hosted.mediasite.com/mediasite/SilverlightPlayer/Default.aspx?peid=3bf950b23c3d4cd79150b998f17295be
I would NEVER have said that my product MELTED like a crappy cheap product if I wanted to sell 2 BILLION shares into the market, and in front of a big audience full of INVESTORS.
Jude Dora L. Irizarry said: "... In his opposition to the asset freeze, Metter baldly asserts that he was not involved in Spongetech's daily operations ..."
Page 14 : http://spongetechtrustee.com/index.php/download_file/view/44/1/
When a >>
JUDGE
<< (not a JUNIOR BUREAUCRAT GREEN LAWYER) tells you BALDLY asserted something, shows how she believes you uh Kisslinger?
I thought she was appointed August 16, 2011. Same day Moskowitz appeared in court for plea deal.
I called the IRS...they instructed me to use Revenue Procedure 2009-20, which involves claiming casualty/theft loss as a result of a Ponsi scheme type investment, which this qualifies for.
You need to fill out the Appendix A worksheet on page 13 of the Revenue Procedure 2009-20 document.
Then fill out Form 4684, page 2 Section B.
This loss must be claimed in the year that the criminal indictments are handed down or confessions are made, which was for tax year 2010 in my estimation, so I had to file amended Federal and State tax returns.
Do a Google search on worthless stock or talk to your CPA if you have one. I just shared my situation with my CPA, provided him with my positions and the letter from the DTCC and he did the rest.
My CPA is preparing my 2010 amended tax return so I'll be getting back from both state and federal and I was able to offset gains from the sale of other stocks in 2011 plus take an additional $3k off my adjusted gross.
All without selling (which I can't do) or forfeiting a single share.
It's nice to have a little closure.
Big Lug
Thank you loanranger,
I should have said SOME of the shareholders.
BMK,
One of the shareholders was given trustee power to conduct a share count. This shareholder( susan- can't think of her last name) can and probably has requested documents from the appropriate sources to achieve the share count. The power was granted to Susan about 7 months ago. Unfortunately, like many others who get involved with spng, she has chosen to keep the remaining shareholders in the dark.imo
Pacer update 01 Mar 12 - SEC v Spongetech CIVIL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 1:10-cv-02031
https://ecf.nyed.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/iquery.pl
Date Filed # Docket Text
03/01/2012 ORDER re 211 Letter filed by Solution Funding, LLC -- The proposed schedule as to Solution Funding LLC's motion to intervene, served on Feb. 7, 2012, is approved as follows: Response memoranda and supporting papers shall be served on or before March 16, 2012; reply memoranda and supporting papers shall be served, and the fully briefed motion filed electronically with the court, on or before March 28, 2012. Counsel for Solution Funding LLC must provide a hard courtesy copy of the fully briefed motion to chambers promptly. If counsel for defendant Metter does not oppose the motion to intervene, then the Court sees no reason why she should file a response to the motion. The parties must advise the Court on or before March 16, 2012 whether or not they have reached an agreement as to a claims process. The Court is willing to consider such an alternative, if it seems reasonable and satisfies any due process concerns of interested parties. SO ORDERED by Judge Dora Lizette Irizarry on 3/1/2012. (Carosella, Christy) (Entered: 03/01/2012)
Defendant
Spongetech Delivery Systems, Inc.
Defendant
RM Enterprises International, Inc.
Defendant
Steven Moskowitz
Defendant
George Sperenza
Defendant
Joel Pensley
Defendant
Jack Halperin
Defendant
Michael Metter
https://ecf.nyed.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/iquery.pl
Ray LUCIA HAITIAN boss PROUD of METTER/LAZAUSKAS sale!
BTR sells WXBR for $250K, METTER paid $1 MILLION in 2006 what a SUPERB Greenwich businessman uh Kisslinger?
"THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 16, 2012 - Business TalkRadio sells Boston-area WXBR, Brockton (1460) for $250,000
Michael Metter-run BTRN paid $1 million for the station in 2006. The new owner will be Azure Media. Its two principals are Florida-based Jhonson – that’s the correct spelling, “Jhonson” – Napoleon and Betsy Napoleon. In Florida, they own jazz-formatted WFHT, Avon Park (1390). The FCC filing shows Jhonson Napoleon as the 85% owner of Azure and Betsy, a citizen of Haiti, holding 15%. WXBR, the onetime WBET, is currently running talk with a local “Metro South Morning News” block and syndicated shows such as Ray Lucia, Battleline with Alan Nathan and Doug Stephan’s Good Day. WXBR is licensed for 5,000 watts daytime and 1,000 watts at night. Broker: Harold Bausemer."
http://www.radio-info.com/news/business-talkradio-sells-boston-area-wxbr-brockton-1460-for-250000
METTER & LAZAUSKAS applying SCORCHED EARTH policy at BTR!
"A scorched earth policy is a strategy or operational method which involves destroying anything that might be useful to the enemy while advancing through or withdrawing from an area"
Ray LUCIA FORCED to accept RIDICULOUS low-level 75% down price HAITIAN BOSS! (that way, Lucia will LEAVE BTR!) (i.e. SCORCHED EARTH policy)
Weber FORCED out to! (kiecked buett method!) (ThePrez... out!)
Shouldn't that OPPORTUNIST be rebuilding Haiti instead?
Ahhhh... Napoleon?
Wake up maybe? -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Haiti_earthquake
Duh???
This looks like a good buy right now!
CELIA COMPETING DOG WASH sponges with MASSAGING BUMPS now UH?
All by Wayne CELIA Sr., 100% under NON compete agreement?
DICON's Dog Wash -> http://en.diconpacific.com/newEbiz1/EbizPortalFG/portal/html/ProductInfoExhibit.html?ProductInfoExhibit_ProductID=c373e9106db5d3b28fef43e5926fe34e&ProductInfoExhibit_isRefreshParent=false#
Wayne CELIA's Dog Wash -> http://www.divdist.com/products/infusion-%E2%84%A2-massaging-bath-sponge/
The REAL Dog Wash -> http://1stchoiceontv.com/img/sponge-tech-604605-1-step-pet-bath-sponge-as-seen-on-tv_7482_500.jpg
https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/ycOcZi
CREDITOR Rush Hour wants MORE JOB, NOT final payment! -> https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/vGRTj
In a search for a contractor to replace my roof I had 5 estimates provided from 5 different companies. STEVEN MOSKOWITZ of Renovex LLC gave me the best price by over a couple thousand dollars. This was too good to pass on, so I hired Renovex to do the job.
Steve immediately demanded 60% of the cost to be paid upfront. I was hesitant so I told him once the material arrives on site I would give him the 60%. He rudely told me "I am not a bank, and I won't lay out that kind of money." We eventually came to an agreement. The following day, 80% of the material arrived and so I paid him in good faith. That was my second mistake. My first mistake was hiring him in the first place. I was initially promised that the entire job would be completed in 3-5 work days. Over the course of 3 weeks I've heard one excuse after the other. It went from bad weather (which never came) to family emergencies, to sick days (6 in a row, with no communication) This company left my roof unprotected which lead to a semi-major leak in multiple areas of my home. I am currently in the process of filing a claim against his insurance, which I'm beginning to think is fraudulent. I have gotten no where. After over three weeks from the start date they were only competent enough to complete 45% of the job. I had finally had enough of the excuses and contacted Steve. I told him I have no other recourse at this point. I need to hire someone else to complete the job. His response was, "Why didn't you tell me that my workers haven't been there in over 5 days? You are just trying to steal my materials and I will see you in court!" As if I'm responsible for managing his labor force. Save yourself the headache, don't use Renovex LLC for ANYTHING! It was a waste of my time and money in the long run. It was the least professional management I've ever dealt with in my entire life. PLEASE DON'T BE TEMPTED BY THE LOW COST, IT IS A FACADE THAT IS WELL WORTH AVOIDING!
Ross G. and 1 other voted for this review
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