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jammy - up 30% from 52 week lows.
Congratulations.
Jack
you were busy over the weekend.
Falling cost of hydrogen because of Natural gas prices cratering is very very good for PLUG this year - they meet their hydrogen gross margin targets earlier with less contribution from in house manufactured green hydrogen.
Currently they are doing 9.1 TPD green I believe is the latest information - I doubt Wednesday will be lower and I would rather they build the first dedicated facilities right than rush them.. the falling cost of natural gas helps reduce the financial pressure on this. I can still see 120 TPD constructed by end of the year. BTW pay attention to the actual adjectives used when talking about production capacity
No idea of the actual numbers of liquefaction systems designed and installed but pretty sure Joule has at least 10 designed done or in progress may be more if you include nat gas systems. That may be more than Linde and they have been recruiting well, so I expect a certain number of key staff may have switched in order to be with the green hydrogen leaders. I think they are well aware of the complexities of it that's why it costs so much. It is a nice added value in PLUG's product portfolio and could be adding may be as much as GenDrive to the revenue line as they are sold to partners
You mentioned in an earlier post the falling cost of green electricity - isn't that beneficial for PLUG? The generation of hydrogen could end up being with free power. Generate as close to usage as possible and you won't need liquefaction, but there will always be a need to do some bulk transportation and the costs of liquefaction becomes affordable.
With the booming renewable electricity industry (I saw 30 GW of wind and solar waiting to be added to the Texas ERCOT system alone.) the low usage periods will need a way to store the excess and hydrogen is one very viable option.
Let's see what new information we get on Wednesday.
Reminder, on January 25, Plug Power will be holding an annual Business Update:
Time: 4:30 pm ET
Toll-free: 877-407-9221 / +1 201-689-8597
Direct webcast
Plug Power invites you to attend.
Register for Business Update Webcast
The benefits of green hydrogen are clear:
- Zero carbon emissions
- Robust and dependable performance
- Flexible and sustainable operations
New Mission Hydrogen webinar, January 25, 2023, 16:00 CET (Europe), 10 am ET (US)
One of the main challenges we see in the development and buildout of new hydrogen systems is the automation. All subsystems – electrolzyers, compressors etc. – come with their own automation solution. To connect them, to make sure they “speak” to each other, and to make sure the system safety is always guaranteed is sometimes a tricky job.
Everything would be much easier if we had standards. Standards that make sure hydrogen systems become “plug and play” components instead of “how on earth am I going to do that” or “I hope that the other side is somehow compatible”.
One company that is actively promoting an “Open Automation” approach and standard is Phoenix Contact, a family-owned “Hidden Champion” with 20,000+ employees from Germany.
In our next webinar on Wednesday, Andreas Lautmann and Thomas Oesselke will explain how this can be done in the Power-to-X industry.???????
Based on the example of an electrolyzer manufacturer, they will discuss the following topics:
1. Certification, e. g. functional safety and explosion protection,
2. System availability,
3. Secure remote access for maintenance and operation,
4. Asset monitoring and data for process optimization,
5. System integration into end-user applications.
As always, the presentation will be followed by an interactive Q&A session.
Register: https://event.webinarjam.com/register/647/o82omhwm8
PLUG is almost 30% in three weeks. Shorts caught their as&&w here.
This will be a lot cheaper way of storing energy.
How many times did Ford go bankrupt ?
Great analogy.
No significant change in Plug Power Institutional Ownership. https://fintel.io/so/us/plug
Mac, nice post, welcome back to the PLUG board.
People were just as skeptical about the horseless carriage as it was called.Gasoline could only be bought at drug stores and only by the gallon if you were lucky their were no gas stations. A few years will make a big difference in the availability of hydrogen.
JB, all green energy stocks are down significantly this past year, a buying opportunity in my opinion, let's check back again in one year.
WTM - Green Hydrogen for $4-$5 / kg ! That's fantastic ! And if Andy said it, then we know that it's true!
So we will soon be seeing Andy's "Linde Trucks" which don't exist, traveling on Andy's "Hydrogen Highway" which doesn't exist, and buying Andy's "Green Hydrogen at $4-$5 /kg". Excuse me if I remain skeptical and do not believe Andy.
Here is my question: Is the $4-$5 the cost to produce hydrogen or is that the retail price.
If that is the retail price, then it looks like PLUG is giving the $3.00 credit to the consumer.
And I am glad you chose Heliogen as a poster child : DOWN 98%
JB, the last estimate for the cost of green hydrogen to customers from Andy Marsh, was about a year ago with the statement "will be competitive with gasoline" so $4-5/kg. From the following video, also from a year ago, this company claims that they can produce green hydrogen at $1.8/kg or $14.83 per Mbtu (at minute 8:40 into the video). With respect to the hydrogen pressure at refueling stations, Nikola claims that they will design their hydrogen FCEV trucks for 700 bar, but that the trucks will be able to refuel at either 350 or 700 bar hydrogen refueling stations, it will just take longer to refuel at 350 bar stations.
Looking forward to Wednesday to see if they UP the 2023 & 2024 revenue projections compared to the projections they made for the same years at this time last year!
Based on their experience of another year i think their projections could be more realistic and accurate. Also if their order pipeline is growing, the institutions might all start buying more thinking that Hydrogen's time has finally arrived in the next year or two and they will want to be in early.
There are more and more articles appearing in my news feeds that are stating that we should be taking off in 2023,.... Especially since the IRA act that was passed. Europe has noticed this and they don't want to fall behind.
If the projection increases are substantial,... I could easily see us getting back to $50 in 2023 and doubling to $100 in 2024.
Let's hope for the best!
jammy - Thank you so much. Since you understand hydrogen, can you or anyone tell me how much Green Hydrogen costs to produce? How much Green Hydrogen costs in Bulk ? And how much Green Hydrogen cost at retail? jammy, do you recall how much NASA is paying for their grey hydrogen in Bulk?
Banger - You and I have some familiarity with Cryogenics. Are Cryogenic applications and infrastructure expensive ? How about for Hydrogen? I "understand" from Air Products and Linde, that the reason only a small percentage of their hydrogen production is Liquid is because of the added complexity and costs. From our LNG experience, we both know that ambient temperatures, barometric pressures and relative humidity all affect the liquification process and it takes years of experience and tweaking to adapt to these changes. How many engineers and how many years of experience have PLUG's engineers had with the Joule process?
And speaking of Liquid Hydrogen, how many hydrogen liquification plants has Joule designed and built? Anybody ?
I think all of these complexities might be affecting PLUG's ability to meet their green hydrogen forecasts and goals, again. Maybe they will tell us the truth for a change on Wednesday.
Investors aren’t worried at all as they understand hydrogen. The ones that should be worries are those that short stocks like this winner
Banger - How do you manage the pressure drop? It is not easy to maintain 700 Bar (10,000 PSI) with multiple fill-ups in a day. If there is more pressure in the truck, the hydrogen flows the wrong way.
Hydrogen as a energy fuel is far from perfect. Have you heard much about Green Hydrogen production costs lately? You ought to be worried.
Hydro is so cheap that Oxford, Reading and London will all be damming the Thames to make cheap Hydrogen.
but it can be delivered this year not in 2025 (typical lead time for a utility to install fresh MW power capability).
Hydrogen form excess electricity (hydor especially) is very cheap to make.
It can be transported unlike batteries
it can be refuelled fast unlike batteries
So you run a truck stop and need to install 10 Fast chargers - how would you get your daily dose of energy?
Steve,when I first learned about GNS a few days ago it was $0.4, saw it rising and thought I am not chasing, By the time I decided to tip my toes in it, I had to pay $0.6, bought a few more shares at $0.8 for a gran total of 165 shares. It's currently trading above $3.
Thank you for sharing those other sites you follow, I'll have to look into them.
Wish I had jumped on this one, but held off fearing a dilution and P&D. I also listen to a guy name Steve Van Meter. Pretty good synopsis of what is happening. I look at a few that are stock pickers, but like Moon Market and Theresa Perrin as more a curiosity than to trade since I'm usually out when they make their calls and the stocks had already moved. Every once in a while, they put you on to a good one, but you better use stop losses, or you can get wiped out quick.
Steve, it was covered in Zip Trader's latest video (See below at minute 8:38 into the video), whom I know you also follow (you and I and 606,000 others). He predicts a domino effect will likely occur, with other stocks in a similar situation experiencing similar massive short squeezes.
Steve, thanks, I saw it and posted it on a couple of other sites when it first came out, could not post it here due to ihub limit of same post on only two sites. In any case I emailed the video and article I posted here earlier today to investor relations of every company I am invested in.
Wall Street Stole $300 Million From Me. I'm Getting It Back. Look this up on YouTube. All CEO's need to look at the fraud going on. This includes FINRA and the SEC being complicit. Look at the MMTLP garbage that just happened..
I sent this to Roberto to have Andy view it. I said all CEO's need to join the fight. Look at GNS and HLBZ today. We know we have been manipulated. We will see if Andy has the stones to do something or if he's married to the street.
WTM - Correct. And this has nothing to do with PLUG.
PLUG isn't worth $70/share, and shorts didn't take it there or bring it down. Management and hype. Shorts just take advantage. Nothing wrong or illegal.
JB, I disagree, it exposes short sellers illegal tactics and explains how companies can fight back, applies to all companies. Here is a related article.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230119005334/en/Genius-Group-Appoints-Timothy-Murphy-To-Lead-Illegal-Trading-Task-Force January 19, 2023
WTM - Nothing to do with PLUG . Off-Topic?
Genius Group Appoints Timothy Murphy To Lead Illegal Trading Task Force
January 19, 2023
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230119005334/en/Genius-Group-Appoints-Timothy-Murphy-To-Lead-Illegal-Trading-Task-Force
Actually a lot. This is not a nothing burger but a steak. Thanks
Funny how, due to worries about the environmental impact here we ceded rare earth production to China and virtually allowed them to corner the market. How short sided we are and now it is happening once again with oil and gas. Reality is the transition will take decades. Sure, you can subsidies green energy and advocate for it, but it needs to be thought out and planned to cause the least amount of pain and duress on society. Forced change never sets well with people.
How much Hydrogen does a Draft use ?
A Nothing Burger.
Europe to draft Net Zero Industry Act
By Dominic Ellis
on Jan 17, 2023
https://www.h2-view.com/story/europe-to-draft-net-zero-industry-act/
I wonder why the 180 degree change in outlook today.
I just want it to close above $15 tomorrow. ( I previously sold some $15 puts )
Toofuzzy
you need to listen to the actual words used. As they leave 2023 they will be profitable (ie EBITDA or may be just gross margin)
next week we get the update anyway so no need to debate words
As we know from last year entering a new market - not just new to PLUG but new to the industry - is hard and some things take longer than even the worst case planning. Key components of the H2 plant can be on 12 month lead time (some from PLUG themselves) and then there are permits and sub contractors like water and electricity suppliers. Any slippage means delays. A project I am involved with had a 2 week extension 2 months before "opening day" it has slipped 5 months as a result....
Understand the strategy and the math behind their profitability by xyz date statements - it is pretty sound but can slip.
Ask yourself have they failed to close business or open any new facility promised as part of the growth, cost reduction strategy? Have they lost any existing customers?
From what I see the 2023 is in the bag already so may grow revenues more if they can manufacture the hardware, 2024 will need partners to kick in like Hyvia and Acciona as well as announcing more sites in the USA for production so they can supply Amazon and Nikola.
Net result is you can be buying more down here at these bargain prices for longer period of time.
The problem with using hydrogen is the efficiency loss with any and every energy conversion.
Solar to hydrogen
Hydrogen to electric
Electric to battery
I don't believe Andy. Another Hydrogen Highway..
ANDY told cramer on his last visit on madcroney that 2023 plug would be profitable...that said I don't really beleive it...my ptsd worsens when Andy talks... ive been a holder since 2015 and added since 2017...Andy has to have it right someday..lets hope soon!
so they said... (listen carefully)
as they end 2023 they will be gross margin positive (so may not actually be Q4 just December...)
2024 fiscal year will be EBITDA profitable
2025 we will be truly profitable after taxes
but that can all change next week, especially as the fineprint of the IRA becomes clear and how they will be using the subsidies with their customers. (Tax credits aren't useful for PLUG as they dont pay taxes but the customer does for instance)
Thanks for that and maybe you know as well when the company said we would become profitable,... end of 2023,...end of 2024,... or end of 2025?
I think current revenue forecasts are:
2023 $1.4 Bn
2024 $2 Bn
depending on how Q4 turned out we may get a bump from carried forward deliveries.
Backlog is a very useful indicator of confidence in the forecast as well
I agree that PLUG did well considering the market drop.
Looking forward to it!
What had PLUG already estimated 2023 & 2024 revenues to be,...?
If anyone knows we wil see if they up those estimates now that the new IRA act passed and all the other new developments that have happened in 2023.
On January 25, Plug Power will be holding an annual Business Update:
Time: 4:30 pm ET
Toll-free: 877-407-9221 / +1 201-689-8597
Direct webcast
Plug Power invites you to attend.
Register for Business Update Webcast
The benefits of green hydrogen are clear:
- Zero carbon emissions
- Robust and dependable performance
- Flexible and sustainable operations
stealing this from a new company in partnership with GM for their fuel cells but it sets out the case for hydrogen charged EV's especially heavy duty - class 3, buses and class 8 that need the DC Rapid chargers
https://www.renewable-innovations.com/blog/why-hydrogen-is-the-answer-to-rapid-ev-charging
this is what the GenSure High Power devices are being designed for (as well as data centers).
Wondering if PLUG will get a Green H2 supply deal with them, their current Hydrogen supplier is gray.
In Georgia so we have a bunch of distributions centers. Kingsland, Ga. is a few hundred miles south of me.
Steve, agree. Nice to recall at one point we were rich.
I have bought back a few PLUG shares, but burnt once to a crisp I'm waiting for the next SEC Report.
Andy Marsh is a globalist. As yet, no one in my county or state is using PLUG. However, some statewide company forklifts might be using PLUG hydrogen fuel cells and I'm not aware.
WTM - After watching PLUG this morning, do you think that LONGS manipulate?
Over $18! Now I only need another $35 to get back where I started. Oh well, my fault. Should have sold at $70 or at least when Andy cashed out and SK took that position at $29. That was the ultimate sign I missed. That told us what they thought the real value was at the time. A long road back!
Friendly advice to shorts, this is not the year to short green energy stocks.
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Page is currently being updated - watch for more information about their recent acquisitions and competitors
Welcome to Plug Power
http://www.plugpower.com/Home.aspx
Plug Power is the leading provider of clean hydrogen and zero-emission fuel cell solutions that are both cost-effective and reliable.
In 2020/21 Plug Power cemented two major partnerships
https://www.plugpower.com/plug-power-and-sk-group-partnership/
https://www.ir.plugpower.com/Press-Releases/Press-Release-Details/2021/Groupe-Renault--Plug-Power-Join-Forces-to-Become-Leader-in-Hydrogen-LCV/default.aspx
The architect of modern hydrogen and fuel cell technology, Plug Power is the innovator that has taken hydrogen and fuel cell technology from concept to commercialization. Plug Power has revolutionized the material handling industry with its full-service GenKey solution, which is designed to increase productivity, lower operating costs and reduce carbon footprints in a reliable, cost-effective way. The Company’s GenKey solution couples together all the necessary elements to power, fuel and serve a customer. With proven hydrogen and fuel cell products, Plug Power replaces lead-acid batteries to power electric industrial vehicles, such as the lift trucks customers use in their distribution centers.
Extending its reach into the on-road electric vehicle market, Plug Power’s ProGen platform of modular fuel cell engines empowers OEMs and system integrators to rapidly adopt hydrogen fuel cell technology. ProGen engines are proven today, with thousands in service, supporting some of the most rugged operations in the world. Plug Power is the partner that customers trust to take their businesses into the future.
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