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Chrispy - That would be a great Mega-Symposium surprise !
Think of the Hype milage it would generate!
Even more than MULAG !
Wouldn’t it be something if Plug bought Lhyfe?
Chrisp C.
Velcro - You are not alone. Think of all of those who bought at the $65 secondary.
OUCH! I expect some more selling for next week taxes and year-end tax loss selling.
The world economy does not look good, except OPEC is making easy money.
For two years I was overweighted on PLUG. Sold 90% a few months ago for a loss.
About H2 production from the last conference call.
Ameet Thakkar -- BMO Capital Markets -- Analyst
Hey. Hi. And thanks for squeezing me in. Just real quick on the production kind of outlook of 500 tons per day kind of exit rate in 2025.
Should we think about all of that as being kind of in the US, or is that going to be kind of global? Just kind of thinking about how the PTCs might kind of flow to the bottom line?
Andy Marsh -- Chief Executive Officer
I'm going to let Sanjay take that one.
Sanjay Shrestha -- Chief Strategy Officer
Thank you, Andy. So I mean, it does -- we've mentioned this in the prior calls as well, that 500 tons is really the number in North America. And by 2028, we said we want to be 1,000 tons, and that actually includes Europe as well. But you do bring up a good point, is there an opportunity for that 500 tons to be potentially higher given some of the activity we have going on in Europe.
The answer to that is yes, but that 500 tons number is strictly referring to North American production by end of 2025.
Plus is still a partner with Gaussin !!
Latest investor presentation (Oct 6-7 2022) :
https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/603ce43d5074b84572323408/633da20b1db567b803ff00e7_Investor%20Access%206-7%20october.pdf
see slide13 in particular.
Agnostic to battery and fuel cell suppliers. hey just signed an MOU with SYMBIO but it wont necessarily replace Plug as fuel cell supplier.
I suspect they may have Plug in USA, SYMBIO in Europe type strategy.
given current macro environment they may be right though. to get say to $50 (break through last year high) we need to see the real progress on H@ production as that is probably highest margin business along with cost savings . What are the locations for growing from 70TPD (Q1 23) to 250 TPD (Dec 2025), is this US or worldwide? f they accelerate this business SP will respond. Not expecting profitability myself until 2024 which will keep price subdued until they deliver, in current climate as Caramer says profits are vital to get support.
Price target of $32 by mid-year is not very promising now, is it? Long way from $100. Looks like they are pricing in a recession for sure. I guess we have another year or so of the markets playing with our stock if this is true. How many up and down 20-30% swings will we have to deal with?
Reasonable analysis of PLUG prior to the symposium.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4544272-plug-power-accelerated-path-to-profitability-and-positive-cash-flows
Lays out the case for another electrolyzer factory ASAP if you ask me.
Thanks Chris,
Hopefully on track for completion by end 2023. Do you know if the wind farm nearing completion?
Fit for 55: Transport MEPs want car-recharging stations every 60 km
Press Releases TRAN 10/4/2022
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20221003IPR42118/fit-for-55-transport-meps-want-car-recharging-stations-every-60-km
Summary
- Faster and more powerful roll-out of recharging stations on main EU roads
- Easy to use recharging/refuelling with affordable, comparable and non-discriminatory price
- MEPs also adopted mandatory targets for fewer emissions in the maritime sector
- Cars should be able to recharge every 60 km and refuel hydrogen every 100 km, while ships use on-shore power supply at ports, to help the EU become climate neutral by 2050.
The Transport and Tourism Committee adopted a draft negotiating mandate on the deployment of alternative fuels infrastructure by 36 votes to 2 and 6 abstentions on Monday evening. It aims to spur the deployment of recharging or alternative refuelling stations (such as electric or hydrogen) for cars, trucks, trains and planes and support the uptake of sustainable vehicles.
Mandatory recharging/refuelling stations targets
MEPs agreed to set minimum mandatory national targets for the deployment of alternative fuels infrastructure and to ask EU countries to present their plan by 2024 on how to achieve it.
According to the adopted text, electric charging pools for cars would have to be deployed at least every 60 km along main EU roads by 2026. For trucks and buses, the same requirements would apply by 2026, but only on core TEN-T networks. MEPs also want charging stations for trucks in a safe and secure parking place to be deployed more quickly: two charging stations from 2028 instead of one from 2031 as proposed by the Commission. In all cases, some deployment exemptions would apply to outermost regions, islands and roads with very little traffic.
MEPs also suggest setting up more hydrogen refuelling stations along main EU roads compared to the Commission proposal (every 100 km as opposed to every 150 km) and to do it faster (by 2028 as opposed to by 2031).
Simple recharging
Users of alternative fuel vehicles should be able to pay easily, the price should be displayed per kWh or per kg, be affordable, comparable and accessible to all vehicle brands. MEPs also want an EU access point for alternative fuels data to be set up by 2027 to provide information on the availability, waiting times and prices at different stations.
EP rapporteur on alternative fuels infrastructure Ismail Ertug (S&D, DE) said: “Sustainable alternative fuels and the deployment of their infrastructure play a key role in the transition to a successful decarbonisation of the transport sector. By expanding charging infrastructure more quickly, we are making the transition to climate-friendly mobility easier for people and the industry.”
Sustainable maritime fuels
Transport MEPs also voted through a draft negotiating mandate on sustainable maritime fuels rules (FuelEU Maritime) by 36 votes to 6 and 2 abstentions, the same evening. It aims to cut maritime sector greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions from ships by 2% as of 2025, 20% as of 2035 and 80% as of 2050 (Commission proposed a 13% and 75% reduction).
This would apply for ships above a gross tonnage of 5000, in principle responsible for 90% of CO2 emissions, to all energy used on board in or between EU ports, and to 50% of energy used on voyages where the departure or arrival port is outside of the EU.
MEPs also set a target of 2% of renewable fuels usage and mandated containerships and passenger ships to use on-shore power supply while at berth at main EU ports as of 2030. This would significantly reduce air pollution in ports.
In order to secure compliance, the committee favours the introduction of penalties. Revenues generated from these should go to the Ocean Fund and contribute to decarbonising the maritime sector, energy efficiency and zero-emission propulsion technologies.
EP rapporteur on sustainable maritime fuels Jörgen Warborn (EPP, SE) stressed: “With today’s vote, we lay out by far the most ambitious pathway to maritime decarbonisation in the world. This agreement strikes the balance between ensuring that our climate targets are met efficiently, while safeguarding the maritime sector's competitiveness and shielding industries and families from rising prices.”
Next steps
Once Parliament as a whole has approved this draft negotiating position at the October II plenary session, MEPs will be ready to start talks with EU governments on the final shape of the legislation.
Site prep has started at the Graham Texas site. Soil is being moved around in preparation for foundation/slab work to begin. No work on the water line from the wastewater treatment plant as of yet.
since then though, Steve, Gaussin have been doing a lot of promoting their H2 tuggers and their famous Rally truck. We know the Rally truck didn't have PLUG FCs but what bout their tuggers. The pictures are of custom Fuel cells and no mention of PLUG in any markings or literature.
It could be custom made under contract of course (the power ratings match ProGen engines) or it could be that here was nothing after the 20 truck order. or both as there isn't any indication of them making huge sales yet
As usual nothing from PLUG.
Now for something new - what is happening at Graham?
We did a deal for like 20 Gaussin Yard Dog trucks if I remember correctly. GAUSSIN Group announces an initial contract forhydrogen-powered yard trucks ATM-H2 with PLUG POWER. These 38T vehicles will be delivered starting inNovember 2021 and deployed to PLUGPOWER’s customers.
https://www.gaussin.com/news/gaussin-group...
That product has potential once you have Green H2 available for companies like Amazon and any big shipping company. Hope we hear more in the future.
Steve - There's a long list of Nothing Burger deals including Gaussin, Energy OR, MULAG, FedEx vans and many more.
We did a deal for like 20 Gaussin Yard Dog trucks if I remember correctly. GAUSSIN Group announces an initial contract forhydrogen-powered yard trucks ATM-H2 with PLUG POWER. These 38T vehicles will be delivered starting inNovember 2021 and deployed to PLUGPOWER’s customers.
https://www.gaussin.com/news/gaussin-group...
That product has potential once you have Green H2 available for companies like Amazon and any big shipping company. Hope we hear more in the future.
I am puzzled about Gaussin still - not sure we aren't building a custom set of fuel cells for them. (a model we could then follow for others in the mobility space ). They seem to realize the potential and targeting a better market than Mulag and FEdEx. Each year that passe makes that whole sector more attractive but may be not quite yet for any reasonable adoption.
As for the cost of green hydrogen - once you have three or four plants operations with real world efficiencies then you can calculate it. Many projects waiting for this data, only one or two gambling that it is cost effective now. From PLUG perspective Georgia, Stamp, Egypt and Lyfte will be a good mix of installations and scales to average out.
I will settle for a mix of updates and announcement from current known partners and JVs as we are spreading our skills all over the world.
Banger - I am not expecting much that can be booked very soon. Probably a bunch of long-dated JV's and deals which never amount to anything like Energy OR and MULAG and Gaussin.
The longer I hang around here the less convinced I am that we will ever see a sustained $70's again.
No one can show me the real numbers for Green Hydrogen (cost to produce, cost at retail, ROI's) and this has me very concerned.
This would be a great agenda item for our Mega/Uber/Super-Symposium.
indeed they do,
but they are all over the world speaking this week (and next!). Hopefully there is time to sign contracts/agreements and get the PRs out.
in 2020 we had them in a run up , last year it was all on the day of (or night before)
What announcements are you expecting this year Jack?
PLUG needs to start the Mega-Symposium Hype machine.
Destinus hydrogen-powered plane to revolutionize air travel
By Anela Dokso, 1 hour ago
https://energynews.biz/destinus-hydrogen-powered-plane-to-revolutionize-air-travel/
The Swiss company Destinus plans to create a supersonic aircraft that would one day travel at nearly 20,000 km/h in the highest layers of the atmosphere, fuelled by green hydrogen. This aircraft would be able to transport important cargo halfway around the world in just one and a half hours.
Destinus is developing a “hyperplane” that will fly without pilots at speeds of up to 18,500 kph at an altitude of about 60 kilometers. After the invention of the jet engine and the first passenger aircraft using this novel kind of propulsion, the aviation industry experienced a golden period marked by numerous innovations and accomplishments.
However, the autonomous aircraft will initially only carry up to one ton of freight rather than passengers. You should be able to go from Frankfurt to Tokyo in 1.5 hours using 15 times the speed of sound and an altitude of 60 kilometers, where air resistance is particularly minimal. Sydney ought to be reachable from Germany in less than two hours as well.
But until this occurs, it probably won’t be for a while. Although the business has already created two prototypes of the Hyperplane and launched them into the air, these models were greatly scaled back and only flew for a short period of time to gather data on flight behavior. They were just seven and ten meters in length.
By using green hydrogen to power this engine, only water will escape into the atmosphere. The transportation of donor organs or especially sensitive data could then be areas of application for the hyperplane.
Steve, agree, plenty of room for both companies to succeed, they are not really in competition, their only competition is to replace fossil fuels.
They both have advantages in certain uses. Been saying that for quite some time. It does not make one better than the other. It it just about having the right tool for the job. They could be quite the powerhouse if they combined, but I don't see that happening.
Bloom Energy Has a Sneaky Advantage Over Plug Power
Maxx Chatsko - Friday
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/technologyinvesting/bloom-energy-has-a-sneaky-advantage-over-plug-power/ar-AA12rRV2
The fuel cell stocks are both gaining traction in hydrogen markets. Bloom Energy has the edge when it comes to materials.
The hype of the hydrogen economy may gloss over major technical and economic challenges standing in the way of making it a reality.
Despite that minor detail, hydrogen stocks have defied the broader stock market correction. Since the first day of 2020, fuel cell stocks Plug Power (PLUG) - Get Plug Power Inc. Report and Bloom Energy (BE) - Get Bloom Energy Corporation Class A Report have gained 575% and 164%, respectively. Each easily outperforms the 12.5% rise in the S&P 500 in that span. Both are outperforming the index since the beginning of 2022, too.
Plug Power has long championed the necessity of a hydrogen economy. It took a global pandemic and shifting attitudes about clean energy, but investors now seem to agree. A tweaked business model that leans on manufacturing hydrogen has also helped win over reluctant investors.
Bloom Energy hasn't always been associated with hydrogen, but the company is pouncing on soaring interest from industrial customers. It also has a sneaky advantage over Plug Power that investors have yet to fully realize.
Bringing the Heat for Improved Hydrogen Production
There are four major production processes that can be used to create hydrogen. Three involve electrolysis, which most investors are at least loosely familiar with. Electrolysis is the process of using electricity ("electro") to split ("lysis") water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen.
As with any chemical reaction, a certain amount of energy is required. This is where those devilish details come into play.
Whereas Plug Power uses a process called cold electrolysis to manufacture hydrogen, Bloom Energy can use something called high-temperature steam electrolysis (HTSE).
The latter could produce zero-carbon hydrogen at much higher efficiencies and much lower costs. That's because heat could be used to meet some of the energy requirements for electrolysis, thereby reducing the amount of electricity required. Electricity represents nearly 80% of the cost of hydrogen production for cold electrolysis.
Materials Science For the Win
The competitive advantage of Bloom Energy comes down to the materials used in each company's fuel cells.
- Plug Power uses polymer electrolyte membrane (PEM) fuel cells. The second-generation technology uses materials that are not durable enough to be used at high temperatures. PEM fuel cells also require rare and expensive platinum-group metals (PGM) to operate at peak efficiency.
- Bloom Energy uses solid-oxide fuel cells. The third-generation technology uses materials that can operate continuously at high temperatures, which improves system efficiency. Novel ceramics may be required for future solid oxide fuel cells, but they're easier to source and manufacture than PEM fuel cells.
Whereas PEM fuel cells require roughly 52 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity per kilogram of hydrogen production, solid oxide fuel cells require roughly 38 kWh/kg. That's a nearly 28% decrease in the amount of the electricity required.
Why does this matter? Both companies are eager to utilize electricity produced from wind and solar farms to produce green hydrogen. But only Bloom Energy can utilize electricity and heat from nuclear power plants to produce clean hydrogen, called pink hydrogen.
Bloom Energy has tested its technology with Idaho National Lab, the leading nuclear energy research lab in the United States. The lab's director, John Wagner, had high praise for solid oxide fuel cells, saying:
The Bloom Electrolyzer is, without a doubt, the most efficient electrolyzer we have tested to-date at INL. When hydrogen is produced from a clean, 24/7 source, like nuclear, it can help us address some of the significant challenges we face around decarbonization. Pairing the research and development capabilities of a national laboratory with innovative and forward-thinking organizations like Bloom Energy is how we make rapidly reducing the costs of clean hydrogen a reality and a real step toward changing the world’s energy future.
Bloom Energy has also signed a letter of intent with Westinghouse to jointly explore large-scale hydrogen production from nuclear power plants. Westinghouse is a leading provider of nuclear technology. Meanwhile, electric utility Xcel Energy (XEL) - Get Xcel Energy Inc. Report has teamed up with Bloom Energy to test solid oxide fuel cells at its Prairie Island Nuclear Generating Plant.
In addition to lower-cost hydrogen production, nuclear plants are often located within a reasonable radius of major industrial facilities that could consume hydrogen. Wind and solar farms eager to manufacture green hydrogen would need to transport the fuel to customers, which would further increase costs associated with hydrogen produced from cold electrolysis.
Don't Forget the First Rule of Growth Investing
Although Bloom Energy boasts a sneaky advantage over Plug Power on the quest to enable the hydrogen economy, investors cannot forget an important rule of owning growth stocks: You invest in businesses, not technologies.
Unfortunately, both companies are lousy businesses. Bloom Energy reported a first-half 2022 operating loss of $168 million on $444 million in revenue. Plug Power performed even worse, coughing up an operating loss of $286 million on $292 million in revenue in the first six months of the year.
Investors are hopeful the hydrogen economy could lead both companies (and themselves) to riches, but there's a long way to go. In the case of Plug Power, a significant amount of future growth is priced into shares. If that growth fails to materialize on the scale or schedule currently expected, then the fuel cell stock could crater. Bloom Energy is more attractive from both a technology and valuation risk perspective, although I wouldn't own either stock just yet.
Here's How Much You Would Have Made Owning Plug Power Stock In The Last 15 Years
Benzinga Insights - Yesterday 4:32 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/here-s-how-much-you-would-have-made-owning-plug-power-stock-in-the-last-15-years/ar-AA12yBDm
Plug Power (NASDAQ:PLUG) has outperformed the market over the past 15 years by 8.23% on an annualized basis producing an average annual return of 14.07%. Currently, Plug Power has a market capitalization of $12.64 billion.
Buying $1000 In PLUG: If an investor had bought $1000 of PLUG stock 15 years ago, it would be worth $7,061.49 today based on a price of $21.82 for PLUG at the time of writing.
Lol. At your username! Love the movie Big Daddy!
Yes, I used to own a boat and kept it at the lake. They had two large forklifts to remove the boats from the bins and put them in the water. Since they were diesel powered my boat always had black soot on it and it would take me 30 minutes or more just to clean it up each time, I took it out even with a cover. I wished they could have used electric for fuel cells, but that was 10 years ago, and they needed the power to lift those 25-foot boats.
Steve - Good point. There is a reason why there are no fuel cell forklifts in retail stores, even in Walmarts. It doesn't make economic sense (cents).
The same is true with GSE's, and Vans.
It will be interesting to see how Hyvia does.
The value in Fuel Cells is in applications where the equipment is in use 24/7 and indoor air quality is important. Like: Material handling in Distribution Centers
Not sure how a small business if forced to comply with a new law will be able to afford a system to do this is they have one forklift, or will there be size limit, or they just go with a lithium battery forklift. If they could make this in any size and affordable for a one lift shop, then how far would they be away from doing this for a home to power cars? I know many years ago they had a prototype with Honda, but nothing ever came from it.
Tosca, welcome to the board, great post. Look forward to your updates.
Thoughts on why PLUG didn’t tank on Friday with the rest of the market. It’s just flushed down the toilet the past 10 days along with the market.
https://www.chemanager-online.com/en/news/green-hydrogen-way-out-energy-crisis
Living in Bruges I will follow up the PLUG progress
This information was apparently put out too early by a Plug employee so the link was pulled. I assume it will be officially revealed at the symposium.
Link not working for me,... But sounds exciting!
Nice,
how about a proper launch or are they waiting for the symposium flood of PRs?
I see Preeti Pande's influence here. getting packaging and looks right so they don't look like refineries with all the pipes is vital for adoption. She got Bloom to do that with their standard "server" look and is now doing it with GenDrives and now Electrolysers.
Would be nice to know a RRP and how many sizes they come in "x kg a day" I suspect will be the measure
This is the new product Andy Marsh spoke about that could be quickly installed in the smaller warehouse settings. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/simondwalker_greenhydrogen-electrolyzer-materialhandling-activity-6981649163012734976-IpR3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&fbclid=IwAR3C5iLbP3ApLjidlyLlZgCxgkgk29PCI0AaPk2Tr4LPnbF4uw0Na_heKKk
Transitioning from fossil fuels to green hydrogen just got easier.
Plug Power has just released an exciting new product called PLUG All-in-one. With a supply of water and electricity, now businesses can make their own green hydrogen right inside the warehouse.
Switch to hydrogen fuel cells and electric forklifts to benefit from the 30% federal Investment Tax Credit.
Starting in phases beginning in 2026, you won't be able to buy fossil-fuel-powered forklifts (Executive order N-79-20), so why not transition your fleet to electrics now? Instead of powering them with batteries, use fuel cells and make your own hydrogen fuel.
Additionally, you can fill the GenDrive fuel cell with hydrogen for as little as $6 per shift. Compare this to the cost of propane at $20-$30 per shift.
Plug Power fuel cells refuel in just 3 minutes, which means you can run a zero-emissions forklift fleet without waiting hours for batteries to recharge.
With the PLUG All-in-One electrolyzer, companies become their own fuel supplier. Hydrogen is made from water, with the only emission being oxygen. The H2 you make then powers forklifts at a constant voltage throughout the shift with the only emission being water.
High productivity, zero emissions, low-cost fuel, 30% ITC, no swapping batteries, and no waiting to recharge - these are just some of the reasons to switch to hydrogen fuel cells and the PLUG All-in-one electrolyzer and hydrogen dispenser.
I was referring to the NAZ. Could we hit the 52-week low again? I hope not, but then again, I did not think we would be back here again either.
Steve - I share your concerns. Tax loss selling especially all of those who bought at $65, is a real possibility.
The 52 week low was $12.70
While I agree this fall is the market and not Plug directed it hits use doubly hard since we have no profits. As far as writing the company and getting a reply, good luck with that. The only time I ever got any replies and amazingly quickly I might add, was after the accounting issues and initial lawsuits boy, were they prompt then. Any other time I have been ignored. I just hope this is the bottom for us and the NAZ bounces since we are at the 52-week low and down 33% market. If not, we sink lower. I hope some news leading up the Symposium and earnings gets us back up to $30 at least, but I maybe dreaming. If the market collapses, we could retest lows. I'm not sure if we get one more pump of the market so the ultra-wealthy can pump and dump the market before the holidays for spending money and WS bonuses or they drive it all down since they are short?
Yes but PLUG has seen a significant drop over a very short period of time. Just my opinion. 30 to,20 in like 5 days. That’s bad. I will say the volume seemed light which might be a good thing. Thanks
Surely you aware that the markets worldwide are dropping due to the threat of high inflation and recession, the war in Ukraine, the threat of nuclear war, the insecurity of energy supplies, food insecurity in 25% of the population and the climate emergency. Plug’s share price is not dropping because the CEO is being quiet. If you have specific questions for the company, you can email them. Posting random complaints on a public forum will only get you random answers. You can Email the company in this link. https://www.ir.plugpower.com/events-and-presentations/events/event-details/2022/Annual-Business-Update-call/default.aspx
My question is how does a stock drop over 30 percent in one week. How does the CEO who never shuts up goes quite during that same week.
Jammy32, If your generic questions about Plug is the extent of your due diligence you may consider not investing in Plug.
Steve - I would happily exchange my PLUG shares for NextEra shares depending on the exchange rate.
If NextEra overpays, then I would Short NextEra after the deal.
I think we get part of at least one or two of the HUB deals with all that support we have in NY. That big project in our backyard should be one for sure. I am glad we have a head start because long term I'm not sure we can beat the big guys out of Germany, and we end up being bought by 2025.
I would not be surprised if they end up buying us out at some point. Hopefully, at $100+ down the road.
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Page is currently being updated - watch for more information about their recent acquisitions and competitors
Welcome to Plug Power
http://www.plugpower.com/Home.aspx
Plug Power is the leading provider of clean hydrogen and zero-emission fuel cell solutions that are both cost-effective and reliable.
In 2020/21 Plug Power cemented two major partnerships
https://www.plugpower.com/plug-power-and-sk-group-partnership/
https://www.ir.plugpower.com/Press-Releases/Press-Release-Details/2021/Groupe-Renault--Plug-Power-Join-Forces-to-Become-Leader-in-Hydrogen-LCV/default.aspx
The architect of modern hydrogen and fuel cell technology, Plug Power is the innovator that has taken hydrogen and fuel cell technology from concept to commercialization. Plug Power has revolutionized the material handling industry with its full-service GenKey solution, which is designed to increase productivity, lower operating costs and reduce carbon footprints in a reliable, cost-effective way. The Company’s GenKey solution couples together all the necessary elements to power, fuel and serve a customer. With proven hydrogen and fuel cell products, Plug Power replaces lead-acid batteries to power electric industrial vehicles, such as the lift trucks customers use in their distribution centers.
Extending its reach into the on-road electric vehicle market, Plug Power’s ProGen platform of modular fuel cell engines empowers OEMs and system integrators to rapidly adopt hydrogen fuel cell technology. ProGen engines are proven today, with thousands in service, supporting some of the most rugged operations in the world. Plug Power is the partner that customers trust to take their businesses into the future.
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