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jammy - Just to be clear. I never said otherwise. What I did say was that Mondays Hydrogen Truck explosion did nothing to help hydrogen's explosive reputation.
I also said Toyota removed any references to hydrogen from their car ads during the Tokyo Olympics after consumer testing which showed consumers make a connection for hydrogen and the Hindenburg.
mikman - CORRECTION: The forklift at the P&G distribution center in Louisiana was a Fuel Cell Forklift fueled with HYDROGEN. And the Fuel Cells were made by PLUG.
Can we please have a quarterly like Enphase had yesterday...Lord willing I can make it.
The forklift in Louisiana was propane Jack...please get facts straight
So just to be clear, Toyota does support the use of hydrogen. PLUG is in the right place at the right time. Thanks
Thanks mira. I should have specified, US advertising. But I did specify, during the Tokyo Olympics.
Not sure that Toyota disagrees with me. Here are some facts and that’s all that matters.
Fuel cell technology and carbon neutrality
For over 30 years, Toyota has invested significantly in its world-leading fuel cell technology. Instead of using power from electricity stored in a battery, hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) generate their electricity through a chemical reaction between hydrogen and oxygen in a fuel cell stack. It’s a process that leads to zero emissions apart from water. Refuelling the hydrogen tank from a pump takes less than five minutes. Once on the road, a FCEV gives a zero-emission journey that’s as safe, convenient and enjoyable as in a conventional vehicle.
DNV to assess the viability of blending H2 into South Korea's gas transmission network
07 Feb 2023
https://h2-tech.com/news/2023/02-2023/dnv-to-assess-the-viability-of-blending-h-sub-2-sub-into-south-korea-s-gas-transmission-network/
DNV has been selected by South Korea’s state-owned natural gas importer and transporter Korea Gas Corporation (KOGAS) to assess the viability of blending H2 into the nation’s gas transmission network. KOGAS is one of the world’s largest importer of liquefied natural gas (LNG) and transports the regasified fuel nationwide through its extensive high-pressure gas pipeline network.
The two-year project will assess the scope for blending H2 with natural gas in KOGAS’ 5,000-kilometer-long domestic transmission network. More specifically, DNV will assess the pipeline network’s suitability for H2 blending, provide technical and advisory support to KOGAS’s H2 blending test project on Jeju Island and provide support to KOGAS in addressing the requirements of South Korea’s regulatory authorities in overseeing H2’s integration and uptake.
The work plan includes assessing and demonstrating the viability and impact of blending H2 with natural gas at various ratios in KOGAS’ transmission pipeline system, advising on the options, construction and operation of H2 injection facilities and equipment, reviewing methods for controlling the concentration of H2 blending for customers, providing onsite technical support and data analysis for the H2 demonstration project and supporting KOGAS in addressing the requirements of the energy regulator through the application of knowledge gained in related projects internationally.
DNV is working globally with an increasing number of gas pipeline companies to safely repurpose gas transmission and distribution networks for the integration of blended and 100% H2 gas. In addition, DNV’s Spadeadam research facility in the UK is conducting full-scale testing on the safe transportation of H2 in gas networks through to the appliances in homes.
“DNV’s global technical expertise across the entire H2 value chain, from production to end use, means we are uniquely placed to support the world’s largest LNG importer KOGAS in creating value from H2 while also helping South Korea transition to a decarbonized energy future,” said Dr. Lim Dong Ho, South Korea Market Area Manager, Energy Systems at DNV.
"Our global H2 network of multidisciplinary experts, which has grown in Asia with key recruitments in 2022, has already been involved in numerous H2 initiatives across the energy and maritime industries, and we are in a unique position to cover the whole H2 value chain and maintain relations with all its key stakeholders,” said Brice Le Gallo, Vice President and Regional Director APAC, Energy Systems at DNV.
Our 2022 Energy Transition Outlook forecasts that H2 production for energy purposes will meet 9% of Asia-Pacific energy demand by 2050, and together with industry and governments, we are helping solve the technical challenges associated with adopting H2 as a leading fuel in the energy transition, to accelerate its uptake and meet our climate goals.
South Korea - a hub for H2
Using imported LNG, natural gas is responsible for around 26% of South Korea’s power generation capacity, a share expected to grow to 31% by 2050 as coal and nuclear plants are phased out in accordance with South Korea’s 2050 Carbon Neutral Strategy and 9th Electricity Plan.
South Korea adopted the H2 Economy Roadmap in 2019 and established the H2 Economy Commission in 2021 to oversee the development of a fully-fledged H2 economy to decarbonize transport, power generation and industry while also driving economic growth and global industrial competitiveness.
Up to 2040, KOGAS is planning to invest $37 B internationally to establish renewable power generation facilities that produce H2 which will be imported, stored and transported through a specialized H2 pipeline network.
South Korea sees H2 as a potential driver of job creation and economic growth worth $43 B. It is targeting H2 use to grow from 5.26 MMtpy at present to over 130,000 MMtpy by 2040, helping to develop large-scale stationary fuel cell power generation facilities and fuel cell electric vehicles.
South Korea has the highest share of industrial energy demand of all IEA member countries at 55% and the third-largest public investment in H2 after Germany and Japan. H2 blending will support the decarbonization of South Korea’s manufacturing sector and is the backbone of the nation’s national H2 strategy.
Really? Have a look my friend Jack!
https://www.toyota-europe.com/electrification/fcev
Toyota disagrees with you. For the Tokyo "Hydrogen" Olympics , Toyota did exhaustive consumer research and focus groups. The results were so negative about hydrogen, that Toyota removed any references to hydrogen in all of their fuel cell advertising.
I think there have been many more issues with gasoline. Hydrogen has a great reputation
Yes. Gasoline is very flammable. Thank good for PLUG and hydrogen
There are some that are trying to scare PLUG investors with what I consider to be false news. PLUG is solid that’s why Morgan Stanley, JP and many others have buys on this stock. Don’t be fooled or scared by people
That would mean hydrogen would dissipate quicker if a leak were to develop
I don’t that this is the case.
I think a truck carrying gasoline would ignite if hit by another vehicle
I think there’s some people trying to scare PLUG investors based on false accusations.
I don’t think the fire was caused by exploding hydrogen. PLUG continues to be solid
True, nat gas is lighter than air, but much heavier than hydrogen.
Natural gas is much lighter than air and rises fast propane much heavier and stays low.You are correct on the percentage.
It was a mixture of things static electricity smoking sections for the wealthy on certain portions of the ship lighting and the ground crew
Mac - Not quite. Natural gas is about the same density as air and doesn't rise like hydrogen does.
And natural gas ignites ONLY when there is a 15% fuel / air ratio. Higher concentrations of natural gas won't ignite because the mixture is too rich to support combustion.
More than once I have witnessed a methane "cloud" burning at the extremities, but the center of the cloud not burning.
WTM - Correct. The fire was caused by the exploding hydrogen. The explosion ignited the outer fabric coating of the airship and diesel fuel.
Please note : A static spark cannot ignite the WET fabric coating of an airship.
Same with natural gas
Repost from HYZN board, courtesy of
G-Oil-D.
The Hindenburg disaster was not caused by hydrogen.
Green hydrogen benefits aside, one of the common myths that lead to some questioning H2 safety is the notorious Hindenburg disaster, which occurred in New Jersey, back in 1937.
After decades long debate and research, it is now believed that while the German passenger airship was docking during an electrical storm on the fateful day of the explosion, an electrical discharge from the clouds ignited the skin of the airship. This resulted in the ship’s hydrogen bags igniting.
However, what caused the large and deadly fire was not the hydrogen, which burned rapidly and safely above the ship’s occupants, but the dark iron oxide and reflective aluminum paint that coated the ship’s surface. Those components were highly flammable and burned at a high energetic rate once they caught fire.
Source: https://solarbotanic.com/hydrogen-safety-busting-the-myth-that-hydrogen-is-more-dangerous-than-gas/
Yes. There was an explosion in California 2 years ago and another in Louisiana about 5 years ago which killed a forklift operator, and another in the Netherlands about 3 years ago. Hydrogen doesn't have to be in a tank or cylinder to explode.
Just fuel, air and an ignition source ( small spark).
Was the Hindenburg an internal or external ignition? It doesn't really matter, any static spark will do it.
1937 is a long time ago. Do you have a more recent example of a small spark causing a Hydrogen explosion? The Hindenburg had a spark within a confined space filled with Hydrogen we are talking about a storage tank that has been punctured in an accident. Modern storage technology is much better than 1937 at preventing a spark inside the tank.
Sub, very interesting, thanks for sharing. In my opinion, this last incident/accident actually proves that hydrogen is not dangerous, even in the event of a severe accident as this clearly was. What I saw was not explosions, but rather, hydrogen released flaring or burning, as expected. As others on the board have mentioned, any hydrogen that is released burns quickly, and firefighters can afterward easily put out the fire, just like any other fire.
In contrast, I have heard about incidents of Tesla's batteries catching on fire for no apparent reason, subsequently taking up to 10 hours of firehoses pouring water on them to put out the fire, and taking thousands of gallons of water for just one car battery.
Steve, I believe Nikola is planning to sell the Hydrogen FCEV trucks in a package deal that includes 1 million miles of hydrogen refueling. The estimate that was circulating at the time this package deal was mentioned, a couple of years ago or so, was $1 million per truck.
Please check your facts. All it takes is one small spark / static to destroy an airship.
Yeah the battery does it randomly for no reason and burns down your garage the Hydrogen truck has to get into an extreme accident. In most cases with a Hydrogen leak it will dissipate into the atmosphere without an explosion. It needs a perfectly timed ignition source to cause an explosion.
subrunner - There is a very big difference between a lithium battery catching fire and burning, and a hydrogen explosion. Banger - You may call it burning quickly, but that is also the definition of an explosion.
The Hindenburg exploded (the hydrogen did), this in turn ignited the "skin" and diesel fuel which is the fire we see in the news reels.
Not sure it's that,.. the whole green sector is down which includes alot of battery car companies.
Train derailment in Ohio yesterday with chemicals on board with fire and hazardous materials...big news yesterday not so much today..hmm
Gee, how many tankers trucks, gas trucks and others carrying hazardous material have accidents? If you are on the road these things happen and even gas lines blow up. All bad, but stuff happens because we are human.
They seem to have gotten used to the almost 300 natural gas explosions a year I don’t think their to concerned about a few hydrogen explosions
Once Tesla's trucks hit the road and start randomly catching fire like their cars no one will be worried about a few Hydrogen fires
Several years ago, my cousin was marketing hydrogen fuel cell backup for SPRINT rural cell towers. Township officials were always concerned about explosive fires. He showed a short video stressing that hydrogen being lighter than air that an explosion never goes wide but always straight up and short-lived.
Nevertheless, a hydrogen explosion is a scary thing and doubly so because the news media loves to blow up things, as well as terrorists.
This explosion does nothing to improve hydrogen's explosive reputation.
I count at least 3 recent explosions just in the USA.
interesting , hope we don't see too many of these still the hydrogen if any was released would have burned very quickly and th fire is all diesel fuel
their website:
https://oneh2.com/solutions/delivered-hydrogen/
states they can survive a 40,000 lb impact from any direction
of course impacts aren't measured in lbs....
Today's drop might be related to the truck crash yesterday. PLUG wasn't involved but seems like all Hydrogen stocks are taking a hit. Just another bump in the road as we move much higher soon.
https://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/truck-carrying-hydrogen-fuel-explodes-in-delaware-county-parts-of-us-23-closed-orange-road-home-road-vehicle-crash-delaware-county-sheriff-ohio-state-highway-patrol
The dream of carbon-free flight is inching toward some reality.
The Federal Aviation Administration on Monday granted California-based Universal Hydrogen clearance to proceed with a first flight of its hydrogen-powered Dash-8-300 test airplane at Moses Lake.
On Friday, the aircraft began initial ground taxi tests and on Monday the propellers ran up to their full RPM. The FAA’s grant of the special airworthiness certificate in the experimental category means that, provided the taxi tests go well, the plane could fly as soon as this month.
Universal, led by Paul Eremenko, former chief technology officer and leading clean energy visionary at both Airbus and United Technologies, is developing the technology to retrofit midsized turboprop aircraft to run on hydrogen.
To create the necessary infrastructure for hydrogen-powered aviation, the company is developing modular pods of liquid hydrogen that can be easily transported to any airport by truck and loaded onto an airplane.
Separately, Universal’s engineers are developing a power system inside the plane’s nacelle — the casing around the motor — including a fuel cell that converts the hydrogen to electricity that turns the propellers.
Eremenko in an interview Monday compared the hydrogen pod to a Nespresso coffee pod and the airplane to the coffee machine.
From what I can find that would cover the whole cost of the truck plus some at an estimated $268,000. I think they also have a lease program. Not sure why their stock is down. Now all they need is a supply of H2 and that should boom sales.
News form Plug Power partner Nikola.
Nikola Tre FCEV Receives CARB HVIP Incentive Eligibility
Fleets Eligible for $240,000 to $288,000 in California Incentives per Truck
Feb 07, 2023, 07:55 ET : https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/nikola-tre-fcev-receives-carb-hvip-incentive-eligibility-301740512.html
Jammy, general hydrogen news, positive for hydrogen, thus positive for Plug Power. There is no competition among hydrogen companies, as the projected total Tangible Adressable Market (TAM) numbers in the various applications for hydrogen are astronomical. The only real competition is from fossil fuel energy companies, which cuurently dominate the market, representing about 98% of it, and are detrimental to the environment.
I don’t see PLUG in any of these posts. Are losing out to competitors?
Thanks
Horizon Europe funds maritime onboard application for Ship-aH2oy project
03 Feb 2023
https://h2-tech.com/news/2023/02-2023/horizon-europe-funds-maritime-onboard-application-for-ship-ah2oy-project/
The Ship-aH2oy project will develop and demonstrate a zero-emission propulsion technology on board ships using green H2 from liquid organic H2 carrier (LOHC) on a megawatt scale. The European Climate Infrastructure and Environment Executive Agency has informed the consortium of 17 partners that they will be granted €15 MM (project period: 5 years). The concept is based on the combined use of LOHC and solid oxide fuel cells (SOFC) as a powertrain, providing a significant improvement from conventional internal combustion engines. The project has real-lab character as the developed LOHC/SOFC powertrain will be demonstrated on board one of Edda Wind’s commissioning/service operation vessels.
Hydrogenious’ LOHC technology with the thermal oil benzyl toluene as the carrier material, already proven in stationary systems, allows for handling H2 in a very safe and efficient way, at ambient conditions and by utilizing existing infrastructure (transport, bunkering, etc). The gaseous H2 molecules are bound to and released from the carrier in a chemical catalytic process (hydrogenation/dehydrogenation), without self-discharge over time. Due to the inherent characteristics of the carrier (non-explosive, hardly flammable, among others), the hazard potential is even smaller than for diesel and thus clearly superior to ammonia.
In Ship-aH2oy, Hydrogenious LOHC Technologies will oversee the detailed design of the LOHC release unit and the integration with the SOFC, while Hydrogenious LOHC Maritime will interface with the external SOFC supplier and take care of the entire system to be introduced and installed on the already prepared Edda Wind vessel. The design of a scalable system architecture for larger ships and power plants by integrating several megawatt LOHC/SOFC modules is consequently intended.
Østensjø Rederi as the project manager for the newbuilds is responsible for the key interface and machinery space contributions, and jointly with ship owner Edda Wind, the aim is to demonstrate the efficient operation of the onboard power plant using green H2.
The Ship-aH2oy partners have already plans to retrofit several other vessels with LOHC/SOFC systems after the first successful demonstration of the technology. In the further course of the project period, a replication study for the developed LOHC/SOFC system will follow, allowing easy replication in (e.g., service vessels and ROPAX-vessels).
Dr Caspar Paetz, CTO of Hydrogenious LOHC Technologies, said, “The very special technological twist in the Ship-aH2oy project will be the targeted high-level thermal integration allowing SOFC residual heat to be used in the H2 release unit for the endothermic dehydrogenation process. With this targeted efficient heat integration, a high overall system efficiency can be achieved. Along with the inherent safety and handling benefits of LOHC, this makes it the very viable emission-free fuel for ships.”
Øystein Skår, General Manager at Hydrogenious LOHC Maritime, said, “Within the Ship-aH2oy project, we will enter the range of megawatt drive power provided by emission-free LOHC technology. This depicts a relevant power range for a wide operation range of service operation vessels and other ship types. Thus, in Ship-aH2oy a significant reduction of greenhouse gas emissions can be achieved for a specific ship. Moreover, the project is a large step towards the serial production of on-board LOHC power systems in the megawatt range.”
Egil Arne Skare, Chief Project Officer at Østensjø Rederi, said, “This grant demonstrates that the EU believes that LOHC is a technology that can cut emissions from offshore shipping. The EU support allows us to test this ground-breaking technology on board, and at the same time show that maritime operations for offshore wind can be carried out emission-free. Østensjø Rederi is proud to take part in a project that will make it easier to get more zero-emission ships with LOHC solutions at sea in the future.”
Kenneth Walland, CEO at Edda Wind, said, “We are thrilled to be a part of Ship-aH2oy and to have the opportunity to demonstrate this cutting-edge technology onboard one of our vessels. With the support from EU and our excellent consortium partners, we are ready to take the next step toward zero-emission maritime operations for offshore wind farms.”
Basis of the Ship-aH2oy project is the strong commitment of the wide range of industry partners to realize zero-emission shipping. As the consortium covers the whole value chain from design-offices and class-society to ship builders, owners and operators, efficient dissemination and exploitation of the results will be a natural outcome of the project.
BMW Wants to Hitch a Hydrogen Ride at Future Truck Stations
- Carmaker plans rollout of small fuel-cell test fleet
- Hydrogen cars will be an option for some 30% of customers: CEO
February 5, 2023
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-05/bmw-wants-to-hitch-a-hydrogen-ride-at-future-truck-stations
Notable quotes:
“The key is to build combined hydrogen gas stations for passenger cars and trucks,“ Jürgen Guldner, who leads BMW’s hydrogen technology program, said in an interview. “It’s much easier to set up hydrogen stations for larger truck fleets as logistics operators already show interest in this.”
Volvo AB, which formed a venture with Daimler Truck Holding AG in 2021 to lower the cost of hydrogen trucks, said carmakers joining in on hydrogen infrastructure would help speed its rollout. The world’s two biggest truckmakers plant to start making hydrogen fuel cells from 2025.
“The more we are who can unite around this network, the faster it will happen,” Volvo CEO Martin Lundstedt said. “It will probably be similar to what we see in the case of diesel. There you have coordination and piggy-backing even if there are specific pumps and such.”
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Welcome to Plug Power
http://www.plugpower.com/Home.aspx
Plug Power is the leading provider of clean hydrogen and zero-emission fuel cell solutions that are both cost-effective and reliable.
In 2020/21 Plug Power cemented two major partnerships
https://www.plugpower.com/plug-power-and-sk-group-partnership/
https://www.ir.plugpower.com/Press-Releases/Press-Release-Details/2021/Groupe-Renault--Plug-Power-Join-Forces-to-Become-Leader-in-Hydrogen-LCV/default.aspx
The architect of modern hydrogen and fuel cell technology, Plug Power is the innovator that has taken hydrogen and fuel cell technology from concept to commercialization. Plug Power has revolutionized the material handling industry with its full-service GenKey solution, which is designed to increase productivity, lower operating costs and reduce carbon footprints in a reliable, cost-effective way. The Company’s GenKey solution couples together all the necessary elements to power, fuel and serve a customer. With proven hydrogen and fuel cell products, Plug Power replaces lead-acid batteries to power electric industrial vehicles, such as the lift trucks customers use in their distribution centers.
Extending its reach into the on-road electric vehicle market, Plug Power’s ProGen platform of modular fuel cell engines empowers OEMs and system integrators to rapidly adopt hydrogen fuel cell technology. ProGen engines are proven today, with thousands in service, supporting some of the most rugged operations in the world. Plug Power is the partner that customers trust to take their businesses into the future.
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