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Remember the JBI 500k in revenue discussion? I know i do and i don't think that event is very far off....just eventin'
Sounds reasonable. I think it's worth 1.38 per processor at 4000 lbs an hour. So, we should expect to see some movement north here shortly.
About "crying wolf" JB has been overly, enthusiastically, impatient in the past. I think that is because the mind can create quicker than the body. However, recently it seems it is the opposite with understating and lowering expectations.
...I admire JB and believe him be very ethical.
Compared to who...Ponzi, Madoff, the US senators from your state?
Louisiana?
sec doesn't have a leg to stand on
due to the gross and egregious hypocrisy
in play specific to these self same media
credits >> and how and when *addressed* to
domark >> vs when and how jbi addressed them
did the sec even question any pipe investors
specifically did they even locate one who bought
into JBI due to media credits?
i'm hard pressed to believe their <sec> *baseline* has
any validity >> and i loved their total lack of *awareness*
as to what P2O is and does >> to say nothing of MMs' DOMINANT
whose manipulation is well documented of the co.s *stock* over
the past 20+ months
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=70570788
but as i've posted b4 >>
i want a trial by jury with the name of the author of that
complaint revealed >> (among other aspects) >> since it doesn't
jive (style wise) with other complaints out of the boston office of the sec >>
to say nothing of learning who financially benefited
from the >> er >> timing of info released in JAN 2012 and earlier
how many other sec complaints were *posted about* 2 weeks in advance
of their release via various stock msg boards as jbi's was
that is damning in its own right to the sec (circumstantially
of course) >> no matter which way it's sliced and imo is just
one of the reasons the sec would prefer to *negotiate*
regardless with the immediate goal impacting co.s (planned) uplist
the next *goal* would be the removal of the CEO
at this stage of the co.s development >> JB is JBI >>
whomever is *orchestrating* events >> knows exactly what they
are doing and asking for
there are no coincidences
it will be very interesting to see how this plays out
i never underestimate any entity when there is this much $$$$$$$ at stake
==
4kids
all jmo
I doubt big oil is concerned about JBI. JBI would barely put a dent in the oil demands here in the US even if they fully populated every recycling facility available with their machines. As you said, if big oil did take an interest, it would be for a 'green' marketing stunt more than anything else.
The fun part is that if someone did make an offer, we'd see the mother of all short squeezes take place.
Just crunching some numbers, but the pps should move north of $3.50 assuming they get the 4000lb/hr permits and if they are in fact running 24/7 now. That number goes up proportionally for each machine added beyond the current 2 units. However, they need to start posting numbers to make that happen since they've cried wolf too many times already.
Yes, and 500m is a drop in the bucket for them. I would imagine that P2O would almost immediately be mothballed or used at minimum capacity. Big oil is for big oil. But they would love to show the govt they are attempting to be alternative, just to get the govt off their back.
Don't really care. That said, I admire JB and believe him be very ethical. However, no matter what happens what do you suppose Exxon or GE would be willing to pay for the processor blueprints and the formula for the catalyst. I would suspect an opening bid of 500 Million. What's that roughy 6.50 a share?
Every other P2O technology company I know of is private, and thus:
. cannot use stock promoters to help sell their shares
. cannot have iHub boards
. cannot be investigated by the SEC
And while they certainly could have lied to their shareholders, I'm not in any position to be able to confirm this.
I agree with you that the SEC is not about killing companies. If there is a conspiracy involving the SEC as has been suggested many times on this board, isn't it much more likely that the SEC is trying to help JBII by getting Bordynuik out of the way? The company would stand a much better chance of success with Bordynuik banned, it makes more sense than the alternative conspiracy theory and the irony is crime story worthy. :)
Oh, I think we have a lot of clues.. you just need to open your eyes (or mind).
Okay, I'll issue an invitation for both of us to peek out of our respective corners. Assuming for the sake of argument that the P2O process is viable (a magnanimious concession given the strength of my view, wouldn't you agree :), do you really believe that the company has any chance of success at all with Bordynuick at the helm?
specific to the jury >> one of the questions
i asked of marty's asst on jan 5th was where
trial by jury would be held (if it proceeds
to that stage) >> commonwealth is indeed it
thee most educated state in the country
(per cnbc) and imo as aware as any are of
the *manipulation endemic* as it pertains
to wall street >> forensics undertaken to
show *exactly* who financially benefited
from the events of jan 2012 (and earlier)
will be all it takes to prove what is what
and who exactly *pulled the strings* and
dictated terms
i'm not underestimating the time that will take
or the resources involved >> i'd expect a hint
of which way the wind blows >> by the 3rd Q 2012
==
4kids
all jmo
Right now I would say that JBII is undervalued. When JBII becomes overvalued and rides that for a period of time I would suggest the short covering has begun.
The fight for shares is going to put a smile across my face. I completely agree that the SEC complaint's real purpose was to prevent uplisting and create a dark cloud for new investors.
Unfortunately, this game is old and the powers that be know the Playbook. I think this particular game has been pushed too far and it is going to implode on the people who have gotten away with abusively shorting start up companies.
That being said, this will get more obvious and pushed further. If we go to trial I am expecting jury tampering.
It would likely take 500000M to 7500000M to get JBI to the point of being "ready for an uplist".
That's assuming they get rid of Bordynuik, shed their CAVEAT EMPTOR status and survive the disrgorging of their ill-gotten gains, hire a competent CEO who doesn't commit fraud, and change business models from a share-printing-shell to one that sells some goods or services for a profit.
it would be closer to 500M to 750M shares
which is why in advance of uplist there
would be the usual r/s done along the lines
of say 1 for 10 >> this in just one dilemma
the abusive short stuck on stupid has re: JBII
there is a certain MO followed >> short >> reset/swap
short some more >> expect a r/s >> short again post r/s
then if JBI actually succeeds/outlasts >> ladder JBII's
pps up slowly as covering is undertaken in preparation of
co.s uplisting >> that would culminate (pps wise) approx 2 weeks
after co.s uplisting to the naz
JBI didn't accommodate the *usual* in any manner >> that is
why the immediate goal of the sec complaint pertained to co.s
uplisting (b4 said complaint i'd have put that at some time this summer)
after JBI became CFP >> proc no 3 was running essentially 24/7 and
national media exposure was embraced via p2o's unveiling at rock tenn's first site
that is why i've posted >> the longer this goes >> the more
parabolic the covering will be >> and that covering shouldn't
be confused with co.s market cap (tho' i'd expect to read posts
about it)
mgmt will also be under pressure to do a forward split (my guess)
within 12 months of uplisting >> my advice dont' play the street's
game >> rather go the berkshire route >> look at the SS (share
structure) of some of the most respected co.s in existence and
take notes >> some were far *wiser* than others in that aspect
while it may come sooner >> imo i'd expect aspects with the sec
will be resolved by mid summer 2013 >> which works for me since
my expectation is that fy 2012 (uploaded in march 2013) will be
the K that is the baseline for the co. going forward
==
4kids
all jmo
500,000 dollars of fuel might have been produced and sold since the second processor came online. Not bad since that occurred Feb 27, 2012. Three weeks.
We will find out over the coming quarters. Q2 numbers is what I'm really interested in seeing.
Makes sense. I don't think JBI built the machines to look pretty. They are running and producing spec fuels for customers.
I am simply amazed that JB was able to design and build these machines with as little share dilution. If this was about "selling shares" don't you think we would at least be at 150M shares instead of 73M.
IMO JB has not lied but changed the business model to capture the possibility of more revenue in the future. No need to discuss 2010. This is 2012 and we have a scalable, repeatable, machine design. Oh yah, two are running full time with a third in construction phase.
WRT stock promoters? They look like enthusiastic share holders to me. I'm excited about P2O's future.
Maybe the SEC is too. After all this looks like a job creator and that is governments focus for 2012. The SEC is not about killing companies.
How many of those guys lied to their shareholders and used stock promoters to help sell shares. Do they have busy boards on IHub???? Did the SEC investigate them yet???
Oh, I think we have a lot of clues.. you just need to open your eyes (or mind).
It does depend on what you choose to look at. A new company will not bat 500. Your pointing out past failures using words like "inflicting" reveal a bias in your viewpoint--You haven't even looked at the video???
I would say now that there is an inevitability based on continuing progress and a reasonable acceptance that developing and launching a disruptive industry changing technology takes time. It took Haber and Bosch 4 years to scale up from a lab demo to industrial production of ammonia.
That's a stretch. I didn't see the video but I doubt rather seriously if the economic viability of the P2O process and Bordynuick's management was demonstrated to the viewers. We have seen some of the economic effects of what Bordynuick's management is capable of inflicting and it doesn't exactly fall into the category of viable. We don't have a clue about the economic viability of the P2O process except that the recent 10K exploded some of the previous speculation.
The video is much more convincing evidence that a lot of time and investor money has gone into a finished NEW technology that will make investors a nice return on their money.
That's a stretch. I didn't see the video but I doubt rather seriously if the economic viability of the P2O process and Bordynuick's management was demonstrated to the viewers. We have seen some of the economic effects of what Bordynuick's management is capable of inflicting and it doesn't exactly fall into the category of viable. We don't have a clue about the economic viability of the P2O process except that the recent 10K exploded some of the previous speculation.
The video is much more convincing evidence that a lot of time and investor money has gone into a finished NEW technology that will make investors a nice return on their money. The biggest piece of the plan has always been to get P20 from desktop concept to full scale production. You haven't been keeping your eye on the ball if you missed that.
MASSIVE FUEL SALES -- LET ME WALK YOU THROUGH THIS
(1) In 2011 JBII did a lot of testing that involves full tankers of production be given to potential customers. Full tanker samples were produced but many were used as samples for testing during months of due diligence by customers.
(2) Those tests lead to major fuel supply agreements at the end of 2011:
See Indigo Energy:
http://plastic2oil.com/site/news-releases-master/2011/12/21/jbi-inc-signs-long-term-fuel-supply-agreement-with-indigo-energy-partners-llc
See XTR Energy:
http://plastic2oil.com/site/news-releases-master/2011/12/23/jbi-inc-signs-multi-year-transport-fuel-take-off-agreement-with-xtr-energy
And the CC where a huge purchase orders with a fortune100 company began:
http://plastic2oil.com/site/events/1515/
(3) Now just after halfway into Q1 "boots on the ground" are reporting production from two machines being shipped to the above. Calls to Indigo Energy early in the quarter confirm receipt of a purchase of a rail car of fuel (400 barrels) with them eager for more. We have confirmation that the Fortune 100 company has a 500,000 liter purchase order that is actively being filled.
(4) No wonder Discovery Channel and National Public Radio are catching on. Any thoughts on what happens when JBII shows annualized fuel sales of $2 million or $500,000 in a single quarter? I figure I should get opinions now. I made a bet with a "friend" about it who I don't think I'll be hearing from ever again if I win so I'm kind of in suspense. YaknowwhatImean? :)
"I think you have to learn that there's a company behind every stock, and that there's only one real reason why stocks go up. Companies go from doing poorly to doing well or small companies grow to large companies."
~~Peter Lynch
JBII has gone from doing poorly (partnering with the Florida Group in 2009) to doing well (2010 onward). JBII is in the process of growing from a small company to a large company.
By the way, a little known CEO named Warren Buffett started out as CEO of a little known company called Berkshire Hathway -- Warren Buffett's first company as CEO that he then "managed into the ground" and to this day admits that buying and running Berkshire Hathaway was his biggest investment mistake of his career. Those people who judged Warren Buffett at the time by his brand spanking new experience as CEO while ignoring his vast talent in other areas remind me of the same type of mistake people are making when they thumb their nose at John Bordynuik. Warren Buffett made a mistake buying Berkshire Hathaway. John Bordynuik made a mistake buying PAK-IT. Buffett focused on his insurance businesses and got rid of Berkshire and went on to build an insurance investment monster. Bordynuik got rid of PAKIT and has gone one to build the first and only viable green energy process in history. They're both forgiven for their first years as CEO. :)
Nice story but that's not what happened. The original business model was to fund P2O development internally from the profits of Javaco, Pak-It and the tape reading biz. Monumental miscalculation, certainly, but not a very convincing rewrite of history. As an admittedly dull aside, the financial statements have never reflected a development stage company.
Boots on the ground are all saying that's NOW.
Can't we cite more authoritative sources than "boots on the ground"? How about a message from the company itself such as what appeared on the website during the third quarter saying that P2O production was proceeding 24/7? Wouldn't a more creditable source than boots on the ground be the production VP who was quoted as saying that business was booming last fall? Rather than boots on the ground, why not rely on the CEO himself who said that tankers were being filled early last year?
The first quarter 10-Q will reveal whether JBII is the business turnaround story of the third millennium or if the latest comments are just part of the continuing scam. Based on how well Bordynuik has managed this company thus far, I place my bet.
All development years in developmental companies have "losses". The Discovery Channel video of the processor speaks convincingly that those "losses" are better described as prudent investments in a disruptive plastics recovery technology that will redirect industry resources and close a wasteful throwaway industry into a leading resource recovery industry.
Thanks for reminding everyone of that specious wording. Maybe there is some reason to think that there are influences biasing the prosecution of JBII by the sec.
Who here would claim that the sec is immaculate???
Try this for some references then:
http://www.plastic2oil.com/site/current-partnerships
Get the point?
Not one of those links contained a single G.D. reference to JBI. What is your point?
You better buy some shares before they get too high. Feed the Beast!
Beautiful day in Niagara Falls, NY. Home of JBII beasts. I advise all to pay attention closely. Don't be distracted, or allow yourself to be misled.
Opportunity is slipping away.
As always, accumulating and happy to be long.
"I think you have to learn that there's a company behind every stock, and that there's only one real reason why stocks go up. Companies go from doing poorly to doing well or small companies grow to large companies."
~~Peter Lynch
http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/daily-planet/march-2012/daily-planet---march-20-2012/#clip641572
I guess this is your wake up call...
Great day to be a jbi shareholder.
National news with probably more to come
2 processors getting fed plastic like the beasts that that are.
Processor number 3 is expected to be finished soon.
All this equates to pure satisfaction as a shareholder.
As cramer would say. Buy buy buy!
transcript:
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=147506525
< Startup Converts Plastic To Oil, And Finds A Niche
Copyright ©2012 National Public Radio®. For personal, noncommercial use only. See Terms of Use. For other uses, prior permission required.
text size A A A
Heard on Morning Edition
March 19, 2012DAVID GREENE, HOST:
A new and possibly more environmentally friendly way to produce oil: it involves plastic - yes, like those soda bottles you discard.
Only 7 percent of plastic waste in the U.S. is recycled each year, according to the Environmental Protection Agency. Well, now a startup company in Niagara Falls says it can increase that amount while also reducing the country's dependence on foreign oil.
From member station WBFO, Daniel Robison has more.
(SOUNDBITE OF MACHINERY)
DANIEL ROBISON, BYLINE: This machine's known as the plastic-eating monster. Thousands of pounds of shredded milk jugs, water bottles and grocery bags tumble into a large tank where it's melted together and vaporized. This waste comes from landfills and dumps from all over the United States.
JOHN BORDYNUIK: Basically, they've been mining their piles for us and sending them here.
ROBISON: John Bordynuik runs his namesake company, JBI, Inc. He's invented a process that converts plastic into oil by rearranging its hydrocarbon chains. According to tests by the New York Department of Environmental Conservation, JBI's patented technology is efficient, with close to 90 percent of plastics coming out as fuel. Bordynuik says that makes the case for this kind of recycling to go mainstream.
BORDYNUIK: When there have been attempts in the past to make fuel from plastic, it's been a low quality, low flashpoint, kind of sludgy. In this case here, we're making a very highly refined, consistent product that's within specifications of any standardized fuel.
ROBISON: JBI executive Bob Molodynia points to a spout at the other end of the plastic-eating machine dripping a thin, brown liquid.
BOB MOLODYNIA: You could tap this right now, and this is ready to go. That's a number six fuel. That's what a lot of like U.S. Steel uses, a lot of major companies. That's what they pay the big bucks for, right there.
ROBISON: Each barrel of oil costs about $10 to produce, which JBI can sell for around $100 through a national distributor. The young company is already producing a few thousand gallons of oil a day. They've signed lucrative deals to set up operations next to companies with large volumes of plastic waste. But in its rush to grow, JBI has been accused by the SEC of overvaluing some of its assets in order to raise more funds. And John Bordynuik says it's been hard to find acceptance from potential oil buyers because JBI's product has been dubbed a green fuel.
BORDYNUIK: We don't make a synthetic other product that has problems. We make an in-spec fuel just like everyone else. In fact, if anything, the word "alternative" has a stigma attached to it, more so because of prior attempts.
ROBISON: If JBI has its way, plastics will become a significant source of domestic fuel that reduces the country's dependence on foreign oil. But just how green is JBI's recycling when it produces a fossil fuel that pollutes just like any other?
CARSON MAXTED: To enter themselves into this industry, I think that they've all bought into the idea of producing a fuel.
ROBISON: Carson Maxted is with Resource Recycling, the plastic recycling industry's trade journal. He's not sure whether converting plastic to oil can be considered recycling or even environmentally-friendly. But he says JBI's methods can co-exist and even complement current recycling practices.
MAXTED: So they're getting value from something that would otherwise go into the landfill, because the plastics, most of them are looking for, the plastics that are either not easily recycled. They're of low quality or of mixed plastic types, or that they're dirty, things that wouldn't be accepted into a recycler.
ROBISON: And since there's no lack of plastic supply or demand for oil, Maxted says this technology has the potential to transform both industries.
For NPR News, I'm Daniel Robison in Buffalo, New York.
Copyright © 2012 National Public Radio®. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to National Public Radio. This transcript is provided for personal, noncommercial use only, pursuant to our Terms of Use. Any other use requires NPR's prior permission. Visit our permissions page for further information.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by a contractor for NPR, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of NPR's programming is the audio.
Boots on the ground are all saying that's NOW.
Interesting comment found elsewhere on the internet:
>>>> The second plastic to oil machine is operating. 3 tankers shipped a week since operational. No tankers or fuel inbound. As I stated in my prior post, fuel transportation is a small world. <<<<
Interesting about Agigoo -- they got a many year headstart and didn't get a lick of funding until they started selling some tankers. Now we've advanced to Agigoo's stage and more.
Me thinks all heaven is going to break loose. Whales of all sorts love a good environmental clean-up story that makes money and will be lining up in droves to help out now that proof of concept is official.
Item 4. Use of Proceeds. as of April 6, 2009
USE OF PROCEEDS
The selling stockholders are selling shares of common stock covered by this prospectus for their own account.
We will not receive any of the proceeds from the resale of these shares.
We have agreed to bear the expenses relating to the registration of the shares for the selling security holders.
that is sooooooo 3 years ago :)
Great video right!? It showed the new P20 machines making clean desired fuel that has been paid for by OTC shareholders and pipe investors who believe in this spectacular company.
It is my understanding that only smart people are shareholders and or partners with JBII....
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2012/Mar/0312_greenleaders
http://www.chrysler.com/crossbrand/intl_site_locator/index.html
http://www.cocogroup.com/
http://xtrenergy.ca/wholesale-fuel-supply.php
http://indigoenergy.com/terminal_locations/terminal.html
http://www.rocktenn.com/about-us/smurfit-stone/supplier-zone/WhatWeBuy.htm
Really REAL!
"This could be the final piece of the sustainability puzzle for plastics"
Man I do love that quote at the very end of the Discovery Channel video!!
Wake me up when they are running these things 24x7...
No it is not. I work in Project Controls. Contols is a concept. It does not matter what systems the financials are runnning on. And this is not a huge company. Maybe if they had to implement SAP or something, one could make this excuse. But, excuse me... JBI is 50 employees or so? ALmost anything will do.
THey are talking about Cost Control.
Means people are spending money left right and center with no approvals.
By my readin of the para, they were late because mistakes were made and transactions had to be recoreded late. Also, the results may be wrong now or in the future for the same reasons.
I bet there was alot of internal discussion between JBI and the CFO over that...
pristine indeed. 'internal controls' is cpaspeak for 'please upgrade your computer equipment' - BFD
the financial statements themselves were audited and opined they were PERFECT
jbi isn't spending anything of the sort. most of that was noncash costs, one timers, development costs, stack test, and pakit. they no longer own pakit so its incorrect to include all that going forward. operating cash flow is maybe 400k a month which is less than what 1 processor can make.
They will settle but not for that list of garbage :) JBII will be fined, nothing will happen to the company or its personnel and once that fiasco is over with, JBI can direct its full attention to building processors for its partners starting off with Rock Tenn
Pristine Auditor Report? hardly
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1381105/000121390012001206/f10k2011_jbi.htm
Page 64
"....A material weakness is a control deficiency, or combination of deficiencies, in internal control over financial reporting, such that there is a reasonable possibility that a material misstatement of the Company’s annual or interim financial statements will not be prevented or detected on a timely basis.
As described in Management’s Annual Report on Internal Control over Financial Reporting, the Company did not maintain effective control over financial reporting as of December 31, 2011 due to pervasive control deficiencies and material weaknesses. The existence of pervasive control deficiencies and material weaknesses impair the effectiveness of other controls by rendering their design ineffective or by keeping them from operating effectively. The Company’s material weaknesses are a result of a lack of policies and procedures, with the associated internal controls, to appropriately address entity level matters. Management concluded that the lack of adherence to the Board of Directors’ policies and more specifically, the Audit Committee Charter, which requires a three member committee with one member qualified as a “financial expert”, caused a failure at the entity level for proper governance over the Company’s financial reporting environment. The lack of oversight on the Company’s routine transactions, as well as a sufficient number of qualified personnel to timely account for such transactions in accordance with U.S. GAAP resulted in the recording of numerous post-closing and late adjusting journal entries during the quarterly reviews and delayed the financial statement closing process for the fiscal year ended 2011.
These material weaknesses were considered in determining the nature, timing, and extent of audit tests applied in our audit of the 2011 consolidated financial statements, and this report does not affect our report dated March 15, 2012, on those consolidated financial statements.
In our opinion, because of the effect of the material weaknesses described above on the achievement of the objectives of the control criteria, The Company has not maintained effective internal control over financial reporting as of December 31, 2011 based on criteria established in Internal Control—Integrated Framework issued by the Committee of Sponsoring Organizations of the Treadway Commission (COSO)...."
the auditor agreed 100% with jbi's financials are absolutely pristine actually:
In our opinion, the consolidated financial statements referred to above present fairly, in all material respects, the financial position of JBI, Inc. as of December 31, 2011 and 2010 and the results of its operations and its cash flows for the years then ended in conformity with accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of America.
JBII is losing at least $1,250,000 per month
according to the latest 10K.
Each of the thousands of barrels you cite has historically been sold at a huge overall loss
2011 Plastic to Oil Sales $ 288,442 (inc sales of waste paper)
2011 Net (Loss) from Continuing Operations -$15,119,658
NET LOSS -$18,259,363
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1381105/000121390012001206/f10k2011_jbi.htm
JBII is making and selling thousands of barrels of fuel as I type to you.
I personally find that quite annoying. :)
Anyway, I don't know why some funds invested in Agilyx. Maybe they like toxic fumes and gas masks, I don't know, but none of them invested very much and perhaps they got venture capitalist size stakes that gives them majority of the company if they ever go public and for less than $2 million a piece. However, what I do know is that JBII has at least "3 very high net worth individuals" and at least one of them, a world famous billionaire, was at the last annual shareholder meeting with around 500 witnesses. It was also mentioned at that same shareholder meeting that JBII had "billion dollar conglomerates" invested. Now I have no idea what the heaven that means, but it sure sounds like institutional support to me, and clearly not doing it for publicity (aka greenwashing as Waste Management are known to do) but are doing so for actual investment purposes without the benefit of being venture capital.
But what do I know? I'm the dummy who thought waste plastic was free even though you can find a bucket of it for $650/ton in Iceland through alibaba.com even though over 12 million tons of argiculutral plastic alone are landfilled annually in the USA alone because there's no viable way to recycle it.
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