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Yepper !!!!! LOL
can traders not sell a "Q" stock!?? what's going on here
well, im putting in another sell order since no one got my shares from yesterday.... 1625 at .0008
it would help to know if the MM are even trading this stock... cuz right now, it appears they arent
FWIW, neither bid nor ask are showing up in TDA... so i dunno whats going on with that
Open Sell
1625
PTFCQ
Limit
0.0009
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07/06/10
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that was a horrible copy/paste on my end.. sorry.. dunno how u did yours. but basically i have a sell in for .0009 with 1625 shares.... MM just not having it?
Nope...still shows open....
Action Ref. No. Action Qty Symbol Price Order Date Expiry Date Status Filled Qty
Change
Cancel RF*9521 Buy 2,000 PTFCQ $0.001 06-Jul 06-Jul Open 0
did you pull your order?
readjusted to .0009, dont know why it's not going thru. MM dont care anymore?! AHH
changed my order to .001, hope you get it
weird.. i have 1625 at market.. dont know why you havent gotten it
I have a bid in for 2,000 at .001 ...lets see if it goes
no one wants my shares?? im selling at market!!! >2000 shares!!!
Anyone else receive a letter in the mail regarding the Chapter 11 filing? Just wondering if this will effect the shareholders beyond the stock price? I dont want to get caught up in their mishaps just because I own some of their stock.
Thanks Speckulater
I am trying to figure out is how Penn Traffic is still running day to day operations as Debtors in possession. Are they talking about the subsidiary companies and not the stores themselves?
Topps has assumed possession of those stores and selling some off and the FTC has not ruled on their case yet.
I understand that topps did not assume the shell because they did not buy penn traffic the company just the stores penn owned. penn traffic still has ancillary companies still in operation but under bankruptcy protection.
The only solution to this is that Penn Traffic fills out form 15-211c to resume trading. Why has thois not happen. Did the court freeze the shell until such a time? I have not read anywhere that they did.
If penn refuses to fill out the form us shareholders can fill out the form and have trading resume but under grey market conditions.
I hope some of these question can be answered. Thanks
PBGC Is A Federal Corporation
Morgan does not own PBGC. They were merely holding the stock for PBGC, for a fee. As a Government Agency PBGC probably could not hold stock directly, due to conflict of interest. So Morgan held for PBGC.
Any fool could see Penn Bankruptcy coming 10,000 miles away, so I question why Morgan did not sell the stock long ago, would be there Fiduciary Responsibility. Makes me wonder if the PBGC shares were Restricted?
IF so, Holy Moley. The Court Restricted the shares from sale, then later is going to declare them worthless? Does Not Compute.
Morgan is not the loser, they will get their Fees. The loser will probably be the U.S. Taxpayer (PBGC).
If I was PBGC I would sue Morgan for Incompetency, or else their shares were Restricted. In my mind, I question if the U.S. Taxpayer unknowingly helped Topps Markets acquire Penn Traffic Stores at such a low price?
This is not over yet.
http://www.pbgc.gov/
http://www.pbgc.gov/media/news-archive/news-releases/2010/pr10-41.html
.
I know the unions don't but PBGC is the one covering the funds right? And see below, they owned 21.6% of PTFC shares from another bankruptcy, they lost millions on the stock drop. I am surpised JP Morgan (Who owns PBGC) will take this laying down and not flip the shell to recover some loss.
******from earlier post*******************
As noted above, Penn Traffic has two previous chapter 11 cases in the past decade. In the most recent bankruptcy, common stock was issued to holders of senior note claims and unsecured claims. As a result, the largest shareholders in Penn Traffic are Bay Harbour Management, L.L.C. (23.7%); Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation, held by JP Morgan Investment Management, Inc. as agent (21.7%); and King Street Capital Management, L.P. (15.6%).
Not Funds From The Union Itself
Isn't some of the retirement value in stock? Aren't some of these funds invested in this stock or shell.....? I will look into it.....
I can't believe that someone won't do any thing with a shell that has at least 60 to 80 million NOL. I just can't imagine that someone won't take advantage of that, just my opinion.
Just on the surface, I would think the more money there is involved the better off our chances of getting some of it.
Of course, if the debtors get compensated w/ actual cash, then it could make it more acceptable to eliminate the value of the shares that they were compensated w/ previously.
I have NO working knowledge of the details involved in corporate BK, & my above suggestion are a result of uninformed musing of the subject, so please read NOTHING into them beyond that.
Man, it sure would be nice to see this thing pull out a last second Hail Mary for us all. GLTA- Muk
NO idea what that means. Can you help me out?
PBGC To Cover $53.8M-$55.8M Penn Traffic Plan Shortfall >PTFCQ
Jun 23, 2010 10:14:05 (ET)
(MORE TO FOLLOW) Dow Jones Newswires (212-416-2400)
June 23, 2010 10:14 ET (14:14 GMT)
Anyone have any speculation as to what this might mean for the shareholders? Thanks.
Topps Markets Reneges on Pension Plans
Gracias amigo~
PTFCQ
PBGC To Cover $53.8M-$55.8M Penn Traffic Plan Shortfall >PTFCQ
Jun 23, 2010 10:14:05 (ET)
(MORE TO FOLLOW) Dow Jones Newswires (212-416-2400)
June 23, 2010 10:14 ET (14:14 GMT)
Penn Traffic execs get prison time for fraud
2 Penn Traffic executives sentenced to federal prison for financial fraud
PTFCQ
The Whole Story ??
Has anybody here bothered to read that whole story? Looks like with a free 7 day trial you can read the rest of the story. I wonder if there is any more info in the article that we might find interesting? Maybe, maybe not.
http://bankruptcy.law360.com/registrations/user_registration?article_id=175286&concurrency_check=false
.
Wound be nice if someone could answer that Murphy, anyone on the board with some knowledge in this area of law. Making them sell the shell to pay off some more of their debt.
Why would a judge not make them sell the shell as an assist, w/ the Money generated being put towards some of the dept that Penn is sticking their suppliers with.
While I am minimally knowledgeable about the intricacies of bk laws & procedures this seems like an absolute no brainer.
There we go, the plan will be submitted, now we see if it is APPROVED!
Not looking good though.
Another lesson learned !!!!!!
http://bankruptcy.law360.com/registrations/user_registration?article_id=175286&concurrency_check=false
All in taking a quick look at the court docket I came across several hand written letters entered into evidence opposing the termination of the pension plan.
http://www.donlinrecano.com/Dockets/penn3/09-14078
That may be something to watch, if the court does actually terminate the pension, that would be bad........in my opinion.
What approach is the different approach?
well if nerachals's dd is correct , I guess that blows plan "a" to hell lol
crappy
but just for giggles try calling them back and pressing the issue.
worth a shot, I am taking a different approach
i dont recall the ladys names but she was in the investors relations dept.
Your the one who posted that you talked to Penn and they told you Tops had bought the shell? Who did you talk to at Penn that told you that?
WOW WHEN I CALLED I TALKED TO A LADY DO NOT RECAL HER NAME.i FIND THIS BANKRUPCY AWFUL STRANGE AS OTHERS HAVE NOT GONE TO THE GREY SHEETS DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHY THIS ONE HAS????
Thats just plain ugly. Looks like another writeoff for next tax season. damm
While the TOPS info bites, I still feel that the fact that the courts previously used shares as compensation will pack allot of weight in the current courts decision, for courts generally don't like to go against prior judicial rulings, & if they rule the shares have no value , then that is essentially what they will be doing. Hopefully the current court accepts the precedent of assigning value to the shares.
Of course, in the prior case(s) Penn wasn't going out of business, which I see as a fact that hurts our case. Anyhow, this isn't dead until the courts say it is, & even then A clean shell, I've seen posted else where on I-Hub) has a value of about a million bucks.
Here is a link to the post by trderg that talks about a shell's value.
Sheel post link
in the judges hands now...looks like it will take a while.
Your welcome and you never know what the future holds.....maybe the judge will surprise us.....in a good way !!!!
Thanks for the update. I'll just keep these shares for posterity. Maybe one day it will resurrect... Oh well, can't win em all..
Kind of looks that way. Unless as, I think it was "speckulator" who made the comment about the court and all those entities who recieved common shares from the prior bankruptcy hold any weight with the court as well as this: Penn Traffic has two previous chapter 11 cases in the past decade. In the most recent bankruptcy, common stock was issued to holders of senior note claims and unsecured claims. As a result, the largest shareholders in Penn Traffic are Bay Harbour Management, L.L.C. (23.7%); Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation , held by JP Morgan Investment Management, Inc. as agent (21.7%); and King Street Capital Management, L.P. (15.6%). Plus, there is another entity which I don't recall that could be a candidate for the shell.I have no idea how a sale of a shell would work during a bankruptcy, yet wonder if it, in fact, has value along with the NOL's.
this means we are left bagholders forever?
And the Hits keep coming !!! Just got off the phone with Kevin Darrington and Tops DID NOT buy the shell or the NOL's. They bought assets in the stores only....and that really sucks !!!!!
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Last Updated 2/17/10
1/29/10 - Tops Markets Finalizes Purchase Of 79 Penn Stores
(PTFC) Synopsis
On 11/17/09 (PTFC) stock sold for $2.00 a share. The next day Penn Traffic Filed Chapter 11. Bay Harbour Management LLC sells 1,788,457 shares of (PTFC), the stock sinks to $0.10. Eventually, Tops buys Penn for $85 million cash plus $100 million in Financial Incentives, debt is absorbed or eliminated, Chapter 11 is avoided. We now believe that this is a squeaky clean shell with substantial Net Operating Losses available. Tops Markets and C & S Wholesale Grocer are currently both Independent, Privately Held Companies. IF either Company rolls into the (PTFC) shell, shareholders will reap TREMENDOUS value.
DD Links
Tops/PT, LLC (Filed January 20, 2010)
Many Local Articles On Penn Traffic Chapter 11
List Of Institutions & Mutual Fund Holding 62.4% of PTFC Stock (No Longer Up To Date)
Shell Stocks Explained & $80 Million NOL
Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation Holds 21.7 % Of PTFC Stock
11/18/09 Penn Traffic Co. Chapter 11 Voluntary Bankruptcy Petition
Penn Traffic Chapter 11 Info & Court Docket
1/8/10 Penn Traffic Bankruptcy Court Hearing Transcript
(PTFC) Share Structure
Authorized Common - 15,000,000
Outstanding Common - 8,779,832
Share Count Source - 9/15/09 10Q
Tops Markets LLC
Type - Subsidiary of Morgan Stanley Private Equity
Founded - 1962
Headquarters - Williamsville, New York
Number of locations - 151 Stores (Including 5 Franchise Locations & former Penn Traffic stores)
Key people - Frank Curci CEO
Industry - Retail (Grocery)
Products - Full Service Grocery Stores
Revenue - $1.75 billion (2008)
Employees - 15,800 (2010)
Tops Markets President and CEO Frank Curci is asking patrons and employees of the former Penn Traffic stores to be patient
(PTFC) Hourly Chart
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