Pacific Sands Inc (fka PFSD)

[ORCA]

LET'S GET IDEAS.

[ORCA]

IF THE STOCK WAS TRADING TODAY.IT WOULD HIT .10 PER SHARE.NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.A VOLUME OF 30 MILLION WOULD ROCK THIS THING IN THE .10.IN ONE DAY.LET'S GO PUBLIC. AGAIN.

[ORCA]

WHAT;S THE SCOOP WITH TERRY?IS HE BUYING OUT THE COMPANY?I DO NOT SEE THIS GOING ANYWHERE FOR THE CURRENT SHAREHOLDERS.IT MATTERS NOT IF THE COMPANY HAS 100 PROFITABLE Qs.IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THEY MAKE 10 $ MILLION NET PROFIT.IF SHAREHOLDERS CAN NOT SELL THEIR SHARES IT MEANS JACK S$IT.I AM STARTING TO GETTING REALLY PISSED OFF WITH ALL THIS HOUPLA.TERRY DID THIS.AND MICHIE DID THAT.TERRY DID THIS.AND MICHIE DID THAT.MICHIE IS GETTING PAID.SHAREHOLDERS DO NOT.I WANT THIS COMPANY TO BE BOUGHT OUT,AND WE GET PAID AND MOVE ON.
I WAS TOLD BY TERRY IN 2016 THAT IF I WOULD STICK AROUND AND WAIT FOR 4 OR 5 YEARS.I WOULD GET PAID WELL.
NOW IT IS 7 YEARS AND NOT GOING ANYWHERE FOR SHAREHOLDERS.TERRY DID SAVE THE COMPANY.NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.
BUT TERRY IS SUING THE COMPANY NOW.STUPID MONEY IS BEEN SPENT NOW.
I THINK A BUYOUT OR A MERGER BY MID 2024 HAS TO HAPPEN.GREED KILLS.MICHIE WANTS TO WORK UNTIL HE IS 150 YEARS OLD.HE GET'S PAID.SHAREHOLDERS DO NOT.YOU SELL THE COMPANY WHEN IT IS ON ITS BEST.IF YOU GET GREEDY AND WANT MORE AND MORE,,,,,,, THINGS CAN CHANGE REAL QUICK.AND GO BAD.

[longago]

I went back and looked at all of the 10Ks and some of the 10Qs plus recent reports from the company since it went private.

Mick and Mike brought the company to Racine, WI on June 4, 2004. It had 30,299,000 shares outstanding at 6-30-04 FY yearend and had sales of just 61,703 for that year.

Mick left in Oct 2011. For the 7 1/4 years he ran the place ending on 9-30-11 shares o/s increased to 67,857,000 and the company lost 2.9 million or an average of 399K per year.

For the 4 1/4 years Mike Michie ran it from 10-1-11 thru 12-31-15 the company lost 2.4 million or an average of 558K per year. During that span o/s jumped to 184,181,00. As more bottomless converts got exercised in early 2016 the o/s jumped to 393,271,074 from 67,857,000 when he started. And some of those conversions were done at below par value of $.001 per share.

Terry Haggerty joined the company on 1-1-16 and since then we have had 29 consecutive quarters (over 7 years) of profitability and by 9-30-23 the company had repurchased and retired 53 million shares.

I am not sure of the details, and most importantly the back story, about how he got banned from FINRA. I might not open an account with him if he were back in the business again, but it looks like he has been the most successful at getting us to a consistent level of profitability. Maybe he was here to help his old clients recover from this disaster. Why else would he pay for the entire cost of this litigation on behalf of all shareholders? Any recovery of money would go back to the company to benefit all of us and not go to him.

Just a rhetorical rant and questions.
https://biztimes.com/former-cfo-of-kenosha-based-pacific-sands-files-shareholder-lawsuit-against-company-seeks-removal-of-ceo/?bypass=655662532c8b6

[joev2]

Again, not sure what you're referring to. Back in the day, they had like 20 million shares o/s for ages. They went up to 50 mil at some point but WAY less than had they done a floorless route. Mick avoided those games like the plague. He knew and spoke about the games so-called lenders played. He WAS going to do a small reverse split at one point and I personally begged him not to. Whether or not I had any influence, I don't know. I do know he gathered up some investors in CT and gave them a good deal (like 10% interest) so he could borrow more. THAT situation worked out for everyone...including the shareholders. As time went on though, he and the company just couldn't get both sales and margins working together in such a way to become a profitable company.

[pantherj]

The Floorless Convertible Debenture was to blame for many, if not most, of the company's early problems. In general, Floorless CDs are "death stars."

[ttubular]

If u remember when the company was failing mick packed up the company n moved it Wisconsin. He saved the company at that point or it was done

[joev2]

Why do you say that? You were around back in the day. If you remember, the couple that Pfsd bought out (I think it was the Oxy stuff), were not happy with the way things were going with Mick in charge, as their own compensation in the deal, was being negatively affected. I don't remember everything else going on as it was years ago, but the company finally got something going with a major chain (Kroger?) only for their margins to be crushed...only for them to again resort to targeting individual consumers, which was why they couldn't ever get profitable to begin with. In the end, I think everyone felt a change was needed. Unfortunately, they couldn't have made a worse choice than Michie. Up until then, I thought he was a decent guy.

Mick may not have gotten screwed so to speak in the buyout arena, but it was clear he was screwed via a vote of no confidence, when in fact, he was the only one that ever truly gave shareholders a hope....himself included.

[longago]

I am still trying to unpack the garbled and disjoint story about the trooper, and now this?

[pantherj]

There is not 1 oz of logic in that statement.

[ttubular]

He’s still around

[longago]

Is he still around?

With this suit to rid the company of the CEO and the 2 outside BOD this is a chance for him or somebody else to get elected to a new BOD.

[ttubular]

I believe that was part of the force out n he got screwed

[longago]

"In October 2011 the Company sold the direct to retail business of Pacific Sands, Inc., including unlimited rights and trademarks related to ECOGEEKS.com and entered into a three year distributor agreement with the Randum Creative Group, LLC. The transaction valued at $94,876 was purchased from the Company with 825,000 shares of Pacific Sands, Inc. common stock owned by a former executive officer of the Company and provided the Company with a net gain on the sale of $88,795. The former executive officer is the sole member of the Randum Creative Group, LLC."

That is word for word from a disclosure in the 6-30-2012 PFSD 10K.

Does not sound like he was forced out but rather bought the entire PFSD eComm business and agreed to be a distributor for the company products to all retail customers.

Anybody know if he is still around?

[ttubular]

I totally agree. INMO They forced him out n stole the company for their own money machine.

[joev2]

What changed was when Mick Wynhoff was ousted as ceo. From then on, honesty and integrity went out the window for this one.

[ORCA]

WOW,WHAT AM I READING THIS EVENING??MAYBE IT'S TIME TO GO PUBLIC AGAIN.MERGER ETC.VERY SOON.OR I TAKE OVER MOVE TO KENOSHA AND RUN THINGS.AND CHANGE THINGS AROUND.LET;S VOTE FOR ORCA NEW CEO OF THE COMPANY.

[pantherj]

Let me get this straight: You are the one with the permanent lifetime ban from FINRA because you did not obey the securities laws you understood. Yet, in your exalted, holier than thou self-serving opinion, I am the one with an insufficient understanding of the law. This, ever though I have not violated, either intentionally or unintentionally, any securities laws nor willingly and intentionally sought to damage other shareholders as you did.

You would be correct in assuming I do not know the securities laws inside & out. But, you might not want to assume that I do not know Attorneys who do know the Securities laws inside & out ... and how to use them. If my comments, or "sermonizing" as you call it, offend you so much, IHUB has an "ignore" feature that you can use.

Your understanding of the law is so limited I think we all could use a break from your sermonizing.

[longago]

Your understanding of the law is so limited I think we all could use a break from your sermonizing.

Any thoughts on the flawed Q3 report from the new guy?

[pantherj]

Your incessant self-serving observations have been duly noted! The FACTS are still the same. Terry Hagerty was slapped with a "Lifetime Ban" by FINRA for securities fraud relating to the illegal manipulation of this very stock. It would seem to me that a reasonably good securities attorney might be able to show that Hagerty bears some liability to shareholders. But, since my reading of the official record shows that Hagerty has not readily paid his incurred legal liabilities/levied fines in the past,, I am left to determine if a Federal Civil court judgment is a better route to justice than a mere complaint to FINRA.

[longago]

Well then, the BOD certainly failed in its oversight function if they overlooked a thing that is this easy to find. Maybe this complaint has enough substance to it to prevail on its merits.

Afterall, it seems they overlooked a great deal of financial and ethical misconduct with the CEO.

[Oxonius]

I would like to wish all of the company's stakeholders (employees, consultants, shareholders, board members, customers, vendors) a very Happy and Healthy Thanksgiving. We have a lot to be thankful for this year and would like to recognize the energy, hard work and loyalty of everyone involved.

[Oxonius]

Actually, I don't believe that this "CFO" and Board Member ever communicated the FINRA matter (lifetime ban for manipulating trading of Pacific Sands shares) to shareholders. Consequently, there are many shareholders that are not even aware that this occurred.

[longago]

The company reviewed his FINRA matter and then made him the CFO and Chairman of the BOD for many years.

Bad judgment on their part, or acceptable risk to have that kind of talent in house?

[pantherj]

You don't "know" that at all! You may assume that to be the case, you may want that to be the case, and you may want others to believe that is the case. But you don't know that is the case. The company was not a one man show. The court will figure it out in due time. Meanwhile, I repeat: While you are so focused and intent on getting others to judge the CEO based on an allegation which may or may not have any validity; it is a 100% proven fact that Hagerty schemed to illegally manipulate PFSD. Thus harming every single shareholder in the process. That is a proven, indisputable fact.
I am not going to carelessly accept the word of one proven guilty of Securities fraud about the supposed guilt of another that has not been proven guilty of Securities fraud.

All I know is this guy came in after 21 years of losses and turned the company around so that we have over 7 years of profits.

[longago]

All I know is this guy came in after 21 years of losses and turned the company around so that we have over 7 years of profits.

Now he has funded 100% of this suit against the CEO and the BOD. He has contacted some of the largest holders about another suit to force the company to hold an election. I guess you are not one of the larger holders or you would know that.

Read the press release which summarizes a nearly 50 page complaint.

The BOD has refused to hold an election so that the owners can have a voice in the operation of the company.

Here’s a link to the story: https://biztimes.com/former-cfo-of-kenosha-based-pacific-sands-files-shareholder-lawsuit-against-company-seeks-removal-of-ceo/?bypass=655662532c8b6

[pantherj]

Think as you wish. But while you are so focused and intent on getting others to judge the CEO based on an allegation which may or may not have any validity; it is a 100% proven fact that Hagerty schemed to illegally manipulate PFSD. Thus harming every single shareholder in the process. That is a proven, indisputable fact.

When a known miscreant accuses someone else of being a miscreant it strains credulity and I am left to simply roll my eyes wondering what the real story is. It reminds me of the time I was on a ride along with a friend of mine who was a State Trooper. We went to take a complainant's statement that he had a significant sum of money stolen from him. It turned out that while he was correct, the money stolen from him was money that he had recently stolen himself.

[longago]

We all see your angry posts all over this sight but a little reflection here might be worth the effort.

The CEO appears to have taken money from you and I as well as the other shareholders. Engaged in other questionable activities.

Should we just let this continue to happen?

The law in Nevada says the owners must be allowed to vote on Directors each year to provide oversight and direction for us as owners. These directors have refused to do that for almost 2 years. You would not have to vote for Terry in an election but we certainly could vote for people who find Michie's behavior unacceptable.

[pantherj]

Nonsense! I find it more than a little odd that the very person that was banned for life by FINRA for illegally manipulating PFSD stock is now suing the company alleging impropriety by the company's CEO! Below is a link folks might find interesting. Be sure to follow it to its conclusion.

https://adviserinfo.sec.gov/individual/summary/728634

[ttubular]

I always thought they were crooks and nobody believed me. Our money is gone never to be seen again

[longago]

Here’s a link to the story: https://biztimes.com/former-cfo-of-kenosha-based-pacific-sands-files-shareholder-lawsuit-against-company-seeks-removal-of-ceo/?bypass=655662532c8b6

[ttubular]

I always thought they stole the company for their own money printer

[ttubular]

A former c-suite employee of Kenosha-based manufacturer Pacific Sands has filed a shareholder lawsuit in federal court against the company’s chief executive officer and board of directors alleging that he found evidence of misconduct on behalf of the CEO that was ignored by the board. A formal complaint was filed Wednesday in U.S.

[ttubular]

Anyone have access to the whole article?

[longago]

https://biztimes.com/former-cfo-of-kenosha-based-pacific-sands-files-shareholder-lawsuit-against-company-seeks-removal-of-ceo/

[pantherj]

You are free to spin FINRA's findings and defend yourself anyway you want. Bear in mind, however, it is a "Lifetime Ban." That seems a bit serious to me. Please define your term; "connection to the company." And why would you assume I have any "connection" to the company.? Suffice it to say it was not me who violated any laws, shirked any fiduciary responsibilities or delved in any double-dealing.

[ttubular]

Insiders probably stole money. They were crooks since they took it private

[longago]

They mentioned a pending suit in the Q3 numbers. Anybody know what that is about?

They skipped sending out Q2 report. What are they hiding?

[ttubular]

This stock turned out to be a piece of shit and we all lost our money.while Michie continued to make money from our money. Another piece of shit ceo

[longago]

I did as you recommended and went over and read what was there.

No monetary fine for this and no required customer reimbursements so it seems FINRA didn't deem this a catastrophic event.

I did notice that you used quotation marks in your original post. It was almost as if the company had provided you with a script to work from.

Any comment on your connection to the company?

[pantherj]

You're free to interpret/reconcile things any way you wish. My many years of experience in the OTC world have shown me that FINRA pursues & prosecutes only the most glaringly egregious issues.

My recommendation is still as follows: Anyone interested can get a report from FINRA, read it for themselves and draw their own conclusions. It would be my recommendation that you do so. Why accept my interpretation of the subject, or anyone else's when all the facts, circumstances and conclusions are readily available to you?

[Oxonius]

It is with great sadness that we must inform you that Dr. Jack Hagarty passed away on Monday, November 6. He was a long-time Board Member, colleague and friend and his contributions to the company's success were immense. We send our deepest condolences to Jeannie and to all his extended family and friends.

This is a link to the announcement:

https://meredithfuneralhome.com/obituaries/john-donald-jack-hagarty.144854

[longago]

Interesting.

Trying to reconcile this with Terry coming in and turning the company around so that we now have almost 8 straight years of increasing profits. He also reduced outstanding shares by a substantial amount starting right after they had their public trading status revoked.

[pantherj]

Terry was banned for life by FINRA. The ban was not result of an "over sight." The ban was not the result of a "misunderstanding." The FINRA ban was not the result of an "inadvertent mistake." The ban was for intentional misdeeds.

Anyone interested can get a report from FINRA, read it for themselves and draw their own conclusions. It would be my recommendation that you do so. Why accept my interpretation of the subject, or anyone else's when the all the facts, circumstances and conclusions are readily available to you?

[longago]

Well, here it is the last day of Oct. Did anybody think Michie would follow thru on Q2 and Q3 earnings reports by the end of Oct? They were always released quickly when Terry was there. Anybody know what has changed and if there is some bad news pending?

[ttubular]

How will anyone ever recover their investment in PFSD? They went private n we got screwed. They are going nowhere fast. How sad they had a chance. Does anyone here think they will recover any of their investment?

[longago]

They suspended Terry for sending out the 2022 annual and the Q1. Who did you talk to????

They said $5 million in annual sales in Q1 and they had record back log so Q2 and Q3 should be good but they lost an Inc 5000 PL customer.

I have been in this POS since 2008 and they never made a nickel until they hired Terry in 2016. Anybody heard from him since they sacked him??

[pantherj]

Received call back from PFSD. Q3 will be out in Oct. I was told I would probably be quite happy.

[pantherj]

Anyone have any info on Q2 report? Have not had any report since Q1. EmaIl addy doesn't seem to work and telephone goes straight to a message center. No call back as of yet.

[ttubular]

Lol ok