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TD offered $25 per outstanding WMI common share, for WMI's east coast operations only, not the whole company.
Let's get two more next week with some green news
I think he got it absolutely wrong and then later declared victory. But I am tired of arguing the point. Way too many uncritical followers on this board to deal with.
Great call Green.
because they know what's REALLY gonna happen
isn't that why it was seized on a Thursday night instead of the customary Friday night?
Oh yeh, "I want it now". I am a pre-seizure shareholder. How about you?
that's because it happened on the 2nd. maybe it's the proverbial "don't wanna be out of wamu this weekend" weekend and big things do appear to happening in the world. jmwy
that's what I was thinking...I think I'm catching on. thanks
So if the NOLS are truly gone it will therefore have to be announced to the public,...correct?
Also, seeing that the NOLS are basically WMIH's only real asset, why would the Hedge Funds remain invested here?
and some didn't get their tickets and are very nervous, right now
More endless wait and declining share value
Lol! The train is preparing to leave the station. IMO, this is going to be a good month.
STOP ALREADY with the I want it NOW AND TONS STUFF
SO AUSTIN how much do you have $ wise in each of your common escrows?
The $7 offer was a mockery, Dimon the bank mafia,then stated if they did not take the offer he was going to buy WAMU at a dollar a share.
~ What's Next ?, Well, NOW You Will Get To See ~
Now ?, You (and me) will get to experience and see, just exactly what was attempted to be legally kept from you, had Plan 6 actually been approved and the entire "dual tracking" legal process, ultimately end at the PIERS (hybrid) Creditor Class' ...
... (I say it is a lot', yes $Billions') ...
the relevant changes made in Dec 2011' (mediation) after Plan 6 failed were, the proper subordination of the WMB Bond's (forced by the WMB Bank Noteholders "Accredited Investors") ... Now the WMB Bonds are gone to JPMC along with WMB' ...
... and'
The Process, eventually ends with Tranche 6, as it rightfully should' ... The WMI Preferred Offerings Holders, and the WMI Common Shareholders'
In My Opinion, ... We' ... will be now be notified of the sale of WMMRC', by WMIH-Corp, now that the associated debt' has been paid off ...
(the plan to sell off WMMRC' was a part of Plan 6's original submission, Now ? with the debt paid off ?, this can also be done')
AZ
NOLs are GONE with
"the Final Payment".
JPM paid FDIC-C on or before June 1st, closing the PAA with JPM's Indemnification payment on July 14th. The FDIC-C will push the funds to FDIC-R for distribution to "the Debtor's Estate" WMI-Escrow Holders to complete the "Change in Control" for "WMB and it's assets".
When "the Debtor's Estate" WMI-Escrow Holders realize "the Final Payment", when WMIH will 'Book' the Capital Gain against the Capital Loss and the NOLs are GONE.
The old Capital Loss will be re-Booked as the new offsetting Capital Gain. Hence; No Capital Loss, no 'gives rise to' NOLs.
The current 8-K [Value from the Hawaii Insurance Bond "Assets" which Old-WMI owns] can be 'Booked' against current NOLs, until "the Final Payment" is realized by Old-WMI, and 'Booked' by WMIH.
HLCE,
Ron
Honestly some of the big A's posts are plausible and with which I agree, but a lot of the predictions/claims are utter nonsense, shrouded in ambiguous posts.
What's the real significance of the "assets" ?
It was only a $20 Mil debt that was cleared.
Actually, there were no "hidden assets" in the K-Mart bankruptcy as is believed in WMI's.
The Accounting practices utilized used their acquisition values, causing them to be severely undervalued.
Once their present day values were accounted for, their true worth was realized.
This was only done after shareholders were out of the picture and could not benefit.
That $25 offer "gone down the drain" makes me sad to think about.
This is something to ponder during this process.
Quote
But what if the WMILT closes, and sometime later assets are returned?
Ref: As per with K-MART BK the Debtors did not disclose the safe harbour assets,which at the end shareholders got zero.
At the end the assets gave the new K-MART a big boost and rocketing the price per share close to 500% within a year or two.
So my question is could WMIH end up with this assets just like K-MART and screw escrows?
Comment:
No. WMI the parent has ownership rights. Same token those that have rights to what WMI has rights to will own the same. Here sits escrow holders.
Yep 8 dollars, TD of Canada offered $25 That is when FDIC(government) took and gave to JPM for 1.9
I see up a little in DH, .9888
zeke, didn't JPM offer to buy WM for around $7 ? Maybe that's "fair and reasonable". I'd be thrilled even after waiting so long.
Yes, Exdimer. It was AZ who first made that assertion and then LG agreed. And it was my response to LG disputing the loss of the NOLs that started the entire back and forth about 8-Ks.
Thanks, that explains why they took all the assets.
Unaudited - Last Updated: 11/21/2016
https://closedbanks.fdic.gov/drrip/Ext/BalDetails/10015
Claw I think AZ first asserted such, LG then agreed
Of Course, as usual they are both wrong, and the latest disclosure proves the point as nothing about NOLs mentioned.
Ref: CBA09, I'm guessing you have given this some astute consideration. You feel 3 to 4 bucks per escrows share is "Waaay too little". Then, is 6 to 7 bucks per escrows share doable for common?
Comment:
Yes
LG: you asserted that the NOLs are gone. I disputed that arguing that such a major event would require an 8-K. You countered that WMIH had not 8-K'd the pay-off of the run-off notes. I argued - at that point in time - that WMIH could elect to 8-K that event, but did not have to. Then, later, WMIH did just that; they elected to 8-K the pay-off of the notes.
So I ask you: where is the 8-K about the loss of the NOLs? You insist that the NOLs are gone. So where is the 8-K about that? If WMIH will 8-k the payoff of the run-off notes, they certainly would 8-k the loss of the NOLs.
Answer: There is no such 8-K because the NOLs are not "gone".
not CB, but I do not know when you bought, see when you started posting. Do you think 6/7 $$ is adequate for waiting 15 years? I know it is more than we had but*******
Nice catch Azcowboy. Key word: assets.
This, I think, is potentially the big difference between WMI's bankruptcy and K-Mart's.
If I understand correctly, K-mart shareholders got nothing at the conclusion of K-Mart's bankruptcy. No shares in the new company, no escrow markers.
So, if assets come back, they have to go somewhere. WMILT or WMIH?
My position is that they would have to go to the WMILT. But what if the WMILT closes, and sometime later assets are returned?
CBA09, I'm guessing you have given this some astute consideration. You feel 3 to 4 bucks per escrows share is "Waaay too little". Then, is 6 to 7 bucks per escrows share doable for common?
As per with K-MART BK the Debtors did not disclose the safe harbour assets,which at the end shareholders got zero.
At the end the assets gave the new K-MART a big boost and rocketing the price per share close to 500% within a year or two.
So my question is could WMIH end up with this assets just like K-MART and screw escrows?
Yes, 8Ks must be filed within 4 BUSINESS days...key word business
Thanks CBA09,
Your second item addresses the issues I was thinking about when I posted the question.
We are then left with a major issue. Assume that assets come back, this year, next year, or further in the future: which entity would be entitled to recover those assets? WMILT or WMIH. It has been and continues to be my position that WMILT is the legal successor to WMI with respect to anything not specifically assigned or transferred to WMIH by the POR.
TD had another line on their site 8K must be filed in 4 days of event, unless I read it wrong.
Good info, keep it coming.
clawman, well what say you? Two 8Ks in same week discussing the very topic you tried to run over me with...you are too funny!
It's about the satisfaction and discharge of the Second Lien Indenture and the consequent release of the lien on the assets of the Company that secured the Second Lien Notes:
Item 1.02 Termination of a Material Definitive Agreement
As previously reported, on March 19, 2012, WMIH Corp. (successor to WMI Holdings Corp. and Washington Mutual, Inc.) (the “ Company ”) issued $20 million aggregate principal amount of its 13% Senior Second Lien Notes due 2030 (the “ Second Lien Notes ”) under an indenture, dated as of March 19, 2012, between the Company and Delaware Trust Company, successor to The Law Debenture Trust Company of New York, as trustee (“ Trustee ”), as amended by that certain First Supplemental Indenture, dated May 11, 2015, by and among WMI Holdings Corp., WMIH Corp. and Trustee (collectively, the “ Second Lien Indenture ”).
The Second Lien Notes have been fully redeemed by the Company and in connection therewith, the Second Lien Indenture was satisfied and discharged as of October 2, 2017 as provided under the terms of the Second Lien Indenture, which resulted in the release of the liens on the assets of the Company that secured the Second Lien Notes.
Ref: Any idea as to timing? Are we looking at sometime before or after the end of 2018?
Comment:
I believe timing will be two fold:
1) That what happens within the finalization of receivership before the end of Sept 2018,
2) That what happens outside of the receivership, specific to Bankrupcty remote entities - SPE's. This, I strongly believe, is were the lions share of recovery will come. Each SPE / Trust is governed by the expressed language of each PSA. There a many and most likely many have reached ripeness while others continue until to carry out payment compliance to investors / certificate holders.
These stand alone SPE's have many accounts that keep separate various types of revenue. I know from first hand experience the amount of retained assets within can be massive. Many Trusts have 6-7 tranches with 10's of Thousands of loans in each tranche.
When a given Trust's PSA has completed it's fulfillment to certificate holders a provision called "Accounts Removable" takes place. But before the actual removable is initiated a reconciliation of "Retained Assets" takes place. This is the vouching of reports to $ in the captive cash accounts along with any remaining over "Over Collateralized Pooled Receivables." Then a true-up, namely $ distribution is performed by the Master Servicer. Here, from my experience, the Holding Company (WMI) would be the receiver of these retained assets.
Now the question is when will this happen. Since this is outside of Bankruptcy it could have happened with each fulfillment of PSA. Then again it could be ( for completed "True-ups" ) in tandem with the finalization of Receivership. Then of course, as those that meet fulfillment a payout accordingly.
~ The WMIH-Corp Debt Is Now' Paid As Of 10/02/2017 ~
"The Second Lien Notes have been fully redeemed by the Company and in connection therewith, the Second Lien Indenture was satisfied and discharged as of October 2, 2017 as provided under the terms of the Second Lien Indenture, which resulted in the release of the liens on the assets of the Company that secured the Second Lien Notes."
WMIH Files 8K - Termination Of Definitive Agreement >WMIH
Just copied and pasted this from TDA...haven't read it yet.
This isn't a link just the headline and the timeline hasn't happened yet. 8:30pm tonight
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000119312517305937/d470625d8k.htm
:) Talk next happy hour all the best. GG4
Jest, all you need to know for now, is yes it will happen relative to when WMIH files their 8K moving forward.
Thank you LG for letting me know about happy hour and Bob for reminding me. Thanks again both of you. Thank you both for the information over the years, a couple of very smart guys, along with a few others. Glta
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Mr. Cooper Group Inc. (NASDAQ: COOP) provides quality servicing, origination and transaction-based services related principally to single-family residences throughout the United States with operations under its primary brands: Mr. Cooper® and Xome®. Mr. Cooper is one of the largest home loan servicers in the country focused on delivering a variety of servicing and lending products, services and technologies. Xome provides technology and data enhanced solutions to homebuyers, home sellers, real estate agents and mortgage companies.
Upon completion of the merger between WMIH Corp. and Nationstar Mortgage Holdings Inc. on July 31, 2018, WMIH became the parent company of the Nationstar Mortgage Holdings Inc. family including Mr. Cooper (Nationstar Mortgage LLC, d/b/a Mr. Cooper), Xome and Champion Mortgage (Nationstar Mortgage LLC d/b/a Champion).
As of October 10, 2018, Mr. Cooper Group Inc. is the new name of WMIH Corp. On July 31, 2018, WMIH, now Mr. Cooper Group, became the parent company of the Nationstar Mortgage Holdings Inc. family including Mr. Cooper (Nationstar Mortgage LLC, d/b/a Mr. Cooper) and Xome.
As early as late 2006, WaMu would begin to become a victim of what would eventually become the worst recession in US history since the Great Depression of 1929. WaMu's aggressive business strategy would begin to unfold throughout the end of 2006 and become increasingly disastrous through 2007. As housing rates were at all time highs before the recession began, WaMu would use its considerable leverage and assets to make large amounts of loans in both subprime mortgages and subprime credit cards. The banking division of WaMu at one point before the end of 2007 had nearly 336 stand-alone branch buildings where various types of home loans were processed and approved. WaMu would eventually over leverage themselves due to the high number of Adjustable Rate Mortgages (ARMs). As the US economy slowed down, the number of home loan defaults began to rise in quick succession. This coupled with the falling home prices throughout most of the US meant that even with foreclosures and the properties back in the hands of the company, they were unable to sell them back into the market, or were not able to derive enough revenue from the sale to cover the loan that was made on them. In the mean time, the credit card division was also seeing a surge in the number of late and non payments being made.
By September of 2008, WaMu's stock price had fallen to $2 from its previous highs of around $50 just two years earlier. Amid strong voices from the shareholders, then company CEO Kerry Killinger was dismissed by the company board. In the meantime, the company went looking for a buyer for part of its banking division. WaMu had been unsuccessful in finding an appropriate buy until its seizure by the FDIC. Overnight the companies banking division was bought by JP Morgan Chase in a secret deal brokered by the FDIC for 1.9 billion dollars. Washington Mutual Inc. has reorganized to Washington Mutual Holding Inc. WITH SHAREHOLDERS INTACT
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