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So LG,
"Commons 36M shares"
How does this equate per escrow?
Don
I am happy to say I am wrong…..after 15 years plus…it has been zero…..I am a preholder….it no longer matters…..if even a small percentage if that happens I will admit I was wrong….until then coop is it and coop has been great
DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I believe all we have ever dealt with here is ""WHAT IF's"" isn't it?
We have been mushrooms now for 16 yrs(at least me) in the dark and fed CHIT from all sides
LG
This also imho puts commons back to the position they should hold compared to what they held originally of 51% or very very close to it, which imho is what a true reorg is supposed to do......................
This only becomes true if there is a distribution and only if there is a distribution.
UPDATE-REVISIT ENTIRE POST - RECENT COOP FILING – THE PUZZLE NOW FIGURED OUT – JUST MAYBE
*** Thanks to BBANBOB for help in putting this together***
https://archive.fast-edgar.com/20240318/AS2E422CZ22EI2Z2222P2CEZA7GSZZ62B262/
JUST maybe with the help of BBANBOB plus some others who agreed with us like Cura Asada, Dmdmd1 and others that the COOP merger with NSM was not totally completed and POSSIBLY there is a positive finale. At least until they issue the owners of the former WaMu Estate who signed timely releases by 3/2012 shares.
These same investors just mentioned also agree that COOP does NOT totally own XOME as for years they have talked about monetizing XOME worth roughly one to two billion. Strange, after multiple years they cannot monetize XOME and we have said this is because COOP does not totally own XOME until they finish issuing the shares. More than likely this ownership of XOME is tied up in a DST owned (75/25) by those investors who signed timely releases.
***NOW LET US LOOK AT SOME NUMBERS***
• Post COOP 12-1 RS around Oct/2018, the outstanding COOP shares became roughly 100M
• The recent filing above shows around 64M COOP outstanding shares after a multitude of COOP buy-backs
• The difference is now 36M shares of COOP which MAY BE owned by timely signed investors
• If these 36M shares (36M + 64M) are given back to timely signed investors, then this takes the outstanding COOP shares back to around 100M but lowers the COOP price to roughly $50.00 a share based on current prices of around $72.00
• Now we have heard that XOME should be worth around 2B or so, NOW figure in 2B ($20.00 a share) on those 100M outstanding shares and WOAH back to $70.00 plus a share
• NOW figure the 75/25 ownership on the 36M shares and guess what you have roughly 27M shares for the Preferred and 9M shares for the Common
• The other thought is there are ten million authorized and shelf-ready preferred shares that can be issued on a minutes notice that has been part of the plan since the (ED) Effective Date of 3/19/2012 so ALL 36 M common shares could go the the investors who released common share and the preferred investors receive 1-1 preferred which explains why the UWs want into class 19 so bad – yes, this is their expertise and they have always known the specific class the big money was to be recovered from…CLASS 19
• IF COOP issues 36M common shares at $71.00 per share that is 2.5B so if they give this to commons that is roughly 25% of a POSIT of ten billion and they back preferred with 7.5B funding for a total of ten billion POSIT. NOW if COOP gets 2.5% of the 635B that Congress spoke about around year 2010/11 that means COOP gets 15.87B so with the ten billion funding of preferred and commons 36M shares at $71.00 it leaves roughly 5.6B for their own coffers driving the COOP common much higher
• Hopefully, these shares are coming soon to a timely-signed-released account near YOU
...
...
DarkBr
"""""" So unless you bought the hell out of WAMU when it was trading on the pinks in the pennies...., or WMIH when it was trading well under a buck, it was painful"""
I mean seriously why do you think many here held millions of shares before 3/19/2012 and the RV's, since a million was only $10,000 @ .01 or at .05 was $50,000
[color=red]WHICH I MIGHT SUGGEST IS WHERE 97 +% of those on this board BOUGHT, in the PENNIES and prior to 3/19/2012 as you well know few here are pre holders[/color].
I was pre @ $6.47
1 WAMU common = 0.03349842 of WMIH share. When WMIH was issued, it was at an "assumed" $1
1 WMIH/COOP R/S 12-to-1, so although the stock went up and down, the $1 issued would be theoretically be divided by 12, but in reality, you now had 12 WMIH shares = 1 adjusted COOP share. Everyone's cost basis in Washington Mutual shares determines the value in their current COOP shares. So although one example may be .18 cents, a more correct version might be:
1000 Washington mutual shares at a price of $10 = $10,000 cost basis
1000 * by 0.03349842 = 33.49842 WMIH divided by 12 = 2.791535 shares of COOP. However, partial shares were not issued
so actually, 1000 * by 0.03349842 = 33 shares of WMIH divided by 12 = 2 shares of COOP = ~$148. So unless you bought the hell out of WAMU when it was trading on the pinks in the pennies...., or WMIH when it was trading well under a buck, it was painful. If you took the risk and piled in, you probably made 10 to 13 bagger like several on this board, so far...
But as one person puts it:
As In Baseball...
"It's true, of course, that, in the long run, the scoreboard for investment decisions is market price. But prices will be determined by future earning. In investing, just as in baseball, to put runs on the scoreboard one must watch the playing field, not the scoreboard."
-Warren Buffett, Feb. 28,1992
COOP could do a 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 forward split in the future to reverse (at least partly) the 1-for-12 reverse split from 2018, which would be a great first step IMO!
Bban legacy commons experienced 2 reverse splits since 2012. Please see my calculations in my earlier post
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/replies.aspx?msg=174063407
Preferred’s only had one reverse split
The first was a forward split
Second was the /12 reverse split
CACTUS... that's why it's called an open forum.
FACT, STRIKE
Roger that KEY... well put... I would like to throw a dash of "irrefutable evidence" in there for good measure.
AIMHO, STRIKE
Got it ty
But still if if ifin 36,000,000 shares come back to commons and they are at current pps of 71$ that SERIOUSLY OFFSETS the .18 does it not or sorry but am I still missing something
You need to factor in the fact that it took 30ish Common to get 1 WMIH.
$6.08/30 = 0.20
Xoom
I am not being a jerk over this and am asking nicely, so just show us how you have gotten to .18
TIA
Bban legacy commons experienced 2 reverse splits since 2012. Please see my calculations in my earlier post
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/replies.aspx?msg=174063407
Preferred’s only had one reverse split
The first was a forward split
Second was the /12 reverse split
~ AGAIN', MY Response on this here COOP forum, Was To XOOM' ... why do sum here ? always think they are being responded to ?, when they are NOT EVER considered' Relevant by ol' cactus; ? LOL' ~
... yeeesh' ... SMH, and LOL' ...
just sayin'
AZ
I fully agree !! Which sense does it make, to block or ignore a peson, just because she or he has another opinion ?? That's stupid.
I want optimists to check the facts from lodas as well.
I want lots of discussions between optimists and pessimists.
Why shouldn't this be possible ? I can't understand.
It only helps us when optimists and pessimists work together and clarify topic for topic .. thanks ..
Left handed or not
But PALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE show me where I have contended 100's of BILLIONs or RILLIONS,,SHORT OF possibly the 299 shown outside the FDIC's own pie chart that DID NOT INCLUDE WAMU
I think if you are honest and fair you will only cite 32-8=24 or the good DR "A"s 86 bill as to what has been said by me for the most part......short of the possible 299 part.
Remember though the SEN SUB COMM on banking DID DID DID say that at the time of seizure we had 635 BILL in loans out.
Now as any home owner knows, by the time they pay off a 30 yr mortgage they have for the most part paid aprox 2.4 times the value they actually borrowed.
SO yes I can see where the numbers COULD GROW exponentially very large but, please again KEEP IT REAL 32-8='s 24 of the 86bill or on a real stretch the 299
Let brink back your napkin math…wait another 15 years…..
👉👉👉Mr. Cooper Group COOP 100% BUY @ barchart.com
=====> https://www.barchart.com/stocks/quotes/COOP/opinion
~ Hmm', I Could See How the 2018' Acquired' sub grouping' ... "COOP" ... would need to offer some sort of financial recovery to the "Original Releasing Owners" of the actual WMI Holding Company's 2012 Reorganization' ... ~
To Me ?, This concept actually makes the most sense out of all of the ... "cock-a-mamey" ... hundreds of billions' coming back and any chapter 11 reorganization for the WMI Holding Company being allowed to reorganize with billions of dollars in retained earnings allowed to be listed, NOT' ... my opinion of course'
some thought went into this ... nice work' ... it would be nice to end all of this' ... this could work
oh, and just for continuity, ... the GSA was settled between WMI and the FDIC' pre reorg' ... and the Dual Track in Judge Collyers Court settled with "Globic" post reorg ...
Oh and added: ... LOL' I threw my calculator out a few years ago' LOL ... I'll let a few of you others consider the numbers' ... LOL ... I'll be just fine with any ending and final result' ... as stated, I've already pulled out my WaMu costs from the COOP' profit train, rolling up from the single digits into the $50.00 pps share ... with enough COOP shares still left to pay attention ! ! (pun intended LOL)
have a nice day people'
just sayin'
AZ
I must be missing something still, $73 div by 12 is $6.08 that seems to be a very long way from .18 SPLAIN ME PLEASE in all sincerity
TIME TELLS ALL RD
The 18 cents was without factoring new shares. That’s current reality of commons .
Now if we factor in new shares it will go up. But 18 cents is current reality. Wouldn’t call it fair as of this writing.Even if COOP pps is $73, when translated into legacy WAMUQ, for those who did not buy more COOP, is still around 18 cents.
They are afraid to allow me to explain to the group that our value is not transferred in the Bankruptcy. The settlement had the goods that Brian Rosen could not get his hands on and have always used the bankruptcy to hide. Our legal representation from the Hedge funds settled outside of BK. Why would BR still be involved if there was not an outside settlement to Escrow/Legacy/ and remote assests. Read all Lotus BS only using the BK language. All Trust or remote assets language is completely separate and has become the great deception from the Rosen/Lotus machine. He thinks he is the master of the universe while being the demon of samantics. The definition of a lawyer. They will burn.
Royal
Lotus
Re: None
Monday, March 18, 2024 8:25:22 PM
Post# of 724726 Go
sadly. what some people on this board expecting more recovery dont understand is that THESE COMPANIES CEASE TO EXIST ANYMORE!!!....... when the chapter 11 was ratified and closed, and release signatures were secured, these companies went into lala land, or oblivion, and buried...a new corporate structure emerged from the old remains with no ties, or obligations to the old equity holders, AND THERE IS NO OBLIGATION TO MAKE THEM WHOLE AGAIN!!!!!!!....if you signed a release, then you gave up all your rights to any former values in the old company... if you did not sign a release, then you have to go to court and sue to get your values returned to you.... 6 that simple... for those of you who have waited, and are waiting to be made whole, you are waiting for a train that derailed on the tracks 12 years ago.....everything posted concerning returns, without documentation is hope and fantasy, and a waste of time....Lodas"
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I see you are still working on buying escrow holders shares!! Hmmm !! I’m not a huge believer in this share compensation of coop shares our escrow shares!!
XOOM
Not sure how you figure this....... IF you were to get new shares @$71 TODAY, on top of what you have already gotten and you pay nothing for them, please tell me how they are only worth .18., seems to me they would be worth their trade able current value, over and above what you have already received.
Now granted the ones you have now are only worth INCLUDING ALL OF THE RV's are only worth .18 according to you but how is that even possible?????????
$71 divided by 12=s 5.91
ALSO how many paid .01 to .10 and or didn't avg down if they were able? Heck even MW paid .20 and $5.91 divided by .20 is a pretty darn good return 20.99 X's ROI based on $5.91
Not saying that we were treated fairly, but I see NOTHING negative about possibly getting additional shares today @ $71 and ifin you don't want them if this happens I AM SURE there are many here that would gladly take them for you
What are you afraid of…..that lodas is right…if you want him to stop posting….show him the truth as to why he is wrong…very simple….
I do not even see the name LODAS , unless someone responds to his post and I see it is in response to him, IGGY here on IHUB takes the poster out of the lime light
If there is a crash….. I am ready for it…..coop is the tell….hope you are in or you are buying coop…
Why not just email him and ask him what you’re thinking…
Maybe you are just wrong and just need to quit talking because nobody wants to hear you.
Thanks LG, so what would that pay old preferred owners?
JHD
man your the BEST....YOU got a answer for EVERYTHING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
read the official documents again, or get a lawyer to read them for you... YOU ARE NOT A SHAREHOLDER ANYMORE IN WAMU, AND NO RIGHTS TO ANY POST CHAPTER 11 ASSETS (THERE ARE NONE) OF WMI.......!!!!!.........I am getting tired of repeating this stuff to you guys who do not read the documents..... the only thing that was said in court, or out of court thats matters is WHAT WAS AGREED TO AND SIGNED BY THE JUDGE AND FILED ON AN SEC DOCUMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Lodas
Rosen said in court: There are assets other than these equity committee can go after those assets. Second if nothing exists why they changed interest rate on Ps?
Big guys will buy puts before market crashes. Makes sense.
It’s less than 18 cents per share (UQ)
So made out well is completely false for a 15 year hold.
WMI Entities: WMI, WMI Investment, Ahmanson Obligation Company, H.S. Loan Corporation, WAMU 1031 Exchange, WM Mortgage Reinsurance Company, Inc., WM Citation Holdings, LLC, WMI Rainier LLC and Washington Mutual Capital Trust 2001.
(https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000090951812000087/jg02-2712_8ke21.htm)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“WMI Entities” shall mean WMI, WMILT, WMIIC, together with their present and former subsidiaries, affiliates, successors and assigns, including, without limitation, WMI Holdings Corp.
(https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1545078/000090951815000162/mm06-0115_8ke101.htm)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which are the WMI entities now??
is Woodway fiduciary & advisors LLC a current WMI entitie??
Phone: 2066612310
Email : CHARLES.E.SMITH.WMI@GMAIL.COM
Clinton
""So fair and reasonable going from 1.8 billion shares before reverse splitting 12 to 1""
Only 1.2 elected to participate and if you were to get shares valued @ 71$ when ya paid pennies for them even after a 12/1 seems you'd make out pretty well, UNLESS YOU WERE A PRE
Brian is this you?
You’re obviously wasting your time by continually reading, critiquing and responding to the opinions of others.🤔 Geeezzzzz, Hollywood, gotta script for ya, it’s a good one!
So you've already linked a certificate of dissolution (or equiv) for WMI, and everyone missed it?
For that matter, does COOP still exist? Technically, I shouldn't be questioning the obvious, but you don't seem to be right in the head.
Lodas,
I think everyone has heard you. If people want to believe something, let them. I think EVERYONE on this board that have been here since the beginning already has their mind made up on what they want to believe. The newbies that came after and follow COOP don't have escrows ( worthless or not ) to even talk about so you are not talking to them anyway. Stop beating your head against the wall. If someone wants to believe they MAY get something back, let them. It's not hurting anyone.
"So if one had 200,000 old commons ÷ .03 ÷12= and recieve apx. 500 new shares x 75.00ish currently price per share=roughly 37,500.00? Wow sounds too good to be true....not!"
You got that right. $37,500/200,000 = $0.1875 :(
sadly. what some people on this board expecting more recovery dont understand is that THESE COMPANIES CEASE TO EXIST ANYMORE!!!....... when the chapter 11 was ratified and closed, and release signatures were secured, these companies went into lala land, or oblivion, and buried...a new corporate structure emerged from the old remains with no ties, or obligations to the old equity holders, AND THERE IS NO OBLIGATION TO MAKE THEM WHOLE AGAIN!!!!!!!....if you signed a release, then you gave up all your rights to any former values in the old company... if you did not sign a release, then you have to go to court and sue to get your values returned to you.... its that simple... for those of you who have waited, and are waiting to be made whole, you are waiting for a train that derailed on the tracks 12 years ago.....everything posted concerning returns, without documentation is hope and fantasy, and a waste of time....Lodas
So if one had 200,000 old commons ÷ .03 ÷12= and recieve apx. 500 new shares x 75.00ish currently price per share=roughly 37,500.00? Wow sounds too good to be true....not!
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Mr. Cooper Group Inc. (NASDAQ: COOP) provides quality servicing, origination and transaction-based services related principally to single-family residences throughout the United States with operations under its primary brands: Mr. Cooper® and Xome®. Mr. Cooper is one of the largest home loan servicers in the country focused on delivering a variety of servicing and lending products, services and technologies. Xome provides technology and data enhanced solutions to homebuyers, home sellers, real estate agents and mortgage companies.
Upon completion of the merger between WMIH Corp. and Nationstar Mortgage Holdings Inc. on July 31, 2018, WMIH became the parent company of the Nationstar Mortgage Holdings Inc. family including Mr. Cooper (Nationstar Mortgage LLC, d/b/a Mr. Cooper), Xome and Champion Mortgage (Nationstar Mortgage LLC d/b/a Champion).
As of October 10, 2018, Mr. Cooper Group Inc. is the new name of WMIH Corp. On July 31, 2018, WMIH, now Mr. Cooper Group, became the parent company of the Nationstar Mortgage Holdings Inc. family including Mr. Cooper (Nationstar Mortgage LLC, d/b/a Mr. Cooper) and Xome.
As early as late 2006, WaMu would begin to become a victim of what would eventually become the worst recession in US history since the Great Depression of 1929. WaMu's aggressive business strategy would begin to unfold throughout the end of 2006 and become increasingly disastrous through 2007. As housing rates were at all time highs before the recession began, WaMu would use its considerable leverage and assets to make large amounts of loans in both subprime mortgages and subprime credit cards. The banking division of WaMu at one point before the end of 2007 had nearly 336 stand-alone branch buildings where various types of home loans were processed and approved. WaMu would eventually over leverage themselves due to the high number of Adjustable Rate Mortgages (ARMs). As the US economy slowed down, the number of home loan defaults began to rise in quick succession. This coupled with the falling home prices throughout most of the US meant that even with foreclosures and the properties back in the hands of the company, they were unable to sell them back into the market, or were not able to derive enough revenue from the sale to cover the loan that was made on them. In the mean time, the credit card division was also seeing a surge in the number of late and non payments being made.
By September of 2008, WaMu's stock price had fallen to $2 from its previous highs of around $50 just two years earlier. Amid strong voices from the shareholders, then company CEO Kerry Killinger was dismissed by the company board. In the meantime, the company went looking for a buyer for part of its banking division. WaMu had been unsuccessful in finding an appropriate buy until its seizure by the FDIC. Overnight the companies banking division was bought by JP Morgan Chase in a secret deal brokered by the FDIC for 1.9 billion dollars. Washington Mutual Inc. has reorganized to Washington Mutual Holding Inc. WITH SHAREHOLDERS INTACT
WMI Equity Escrow Calculator
WMIH: Here's how old shares relate in value to the new shares.
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