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Great Post. Thanks for your lucid explanation. GLTU & GLTA.
I rarely weigh in but you can not have it both ways guys either the company has assets meaning escrow gets paid or it has NOLs net operating losses, meaning we don't get paid. Do you really think that the tax man is going to let your knew company take 5 billion in nols and let you get paid for your old shares ie: escrow get paid NO!
http://www.woodllp.com/Publications/Articles/ma/030301.htm
Who cares if you're telling us it is wrong or right??We will know in a couple of days what is the truth.
I believe Az, was trying to point something different regarding WMMRC (not cash value)
bkshadow, If you focus on the smallest details, you never get the big picture right.
1. P&A is completed ,so when will be available to public we ll see ; JPM final payment made to FDIC for WMB ( book value as of 2008 ) . Every single asset of WMB will be accounted/paid in the FINAL PAYMENT.
Can you provide a link with final P&A completed ?! No one can do it. So,we can't argue without looking into the final P&A completed. Final P&A completed is the masterpiece of WMB trasfer to JPM.
2. WMI Interest loan portofoliu generated for 9 years. (++billion)
Many years ago you said that the value of wamu was +65 billion . Maybe you were right back then.
Now ,you are saying wamu is gone, and what is in the docs is what we get. What docs?! The Final P&A completed is what mater (every single asset will be there and paid for value).
Bkshadow, just IMO,
i'll appreciate if you don t PM me with bad language. Im ok if we agree to disagree.
Anything else is irrelevant
I can envision wmih nol being affected by assets coming back to wmih itself. But imo any assets coming back to the liquidating trust could not impact wmih nol because the nol belongs to wmih which is a separate entity. Any assets coming to the liquidating trust will be passed through to escrow holders and those individual holders will bear the tax consequences.
Thanks CBA09.
A valuable post to help understand the process. I think that you are suggesting that the unfolding of some SPE's is possibly already in process. But I gather that the process can take months vs days or weeks.
The PLAN to "SELL" WMMRC POR 6, wrong...
...assertion (theory) is totally wrong.
...the PLAN was to leave WMMRC in the reorganized debtor.
...with certain creditors, primarily the PIER with $2,000,000 in holdings, making an election to take WMMRC (as valued by the debtors from Blackstone) instead of cash.
...WHY?
...certainly not, and never mentioned by any party in interest or any of the $1B of professionals, including EQUITY (the wizard of Attorney Suman and the forensic BK expert EC Chair Willingham (after 'routing Joyce and prior EC experienced bankruptcy counsel)) was any mention of any value of WMMRC based on HIDDEN, SECRET ASSETS.
If they didn't get their tickets there is nothing to be nervous about.
10000 Escrows...or was that 10000 P's....ummm ok
Your question about WHEN is exactly why I asked several hours ago about it.
Timing.
yep followed TPG here at $6.47 per share with XX,XXX shares the day she went down $XXX,XXXX went POOF GHONDI.
This has just been freed up as of 4 days ago, why pitch a fit now after 9 years, can't wait a tad longer to see what if anything start to move????????
Hey I guess ifin ya can't then scream and yell and whine everyday and see how much that helps ya out...............
no seriously .10 20 30 50 in your COMMON ESCROWS
WAMU is gone, long gone.last I checked this is the WMIH board, two completely different companies.
Quite a few believed in WMI also.
To be completely critical you have to correlate the whole case, not just parts.
TD offered $25 per outstanding WMI common share, for WMI's east coast operations only, not the whole company.
Let's get two more next week with some green news
I think he got it absolutely wrong and then later declared victory. But I am tired of arguing the point. Way too many uncritical followers on this board to deal with.
Great call Green.
because they know what's REALLY gonna happen
isn't that why it was seized on a Thursday night instead of the customary Friday night?
Oh yeh, "I want it now". I am a pre-seizure shareholder. How about you?
that's because it happened on the 2nd. maybe it's the proverbial "don't wanna be out of wamu this weekend" weekend and big things do appear to happening in the world. jmwy
that's what I was thinking...I think I'm catching on. thanks
So if the NOLS are truly gone it will therefore have to be announced to the public,...correct?
Also, seeing that the NOLS are basically WMIH's only real asset, why would the Hedge Funds remain invested here?
and some didn't get their tickets and are very nervous, right now
More endless wait and declining share value
Lol! The train is preparing to leave the station. IMO, this is going to be a good month.
STOP ALREADY with the I want it NOW AND TONS STUFF
SO AUSTIN how much do you have $ wise in each of your common escrows?
The $7 offer was a mockery, Dimon the bank mafia,then stated if they did not take the offer he was going to buy WAMU at a dollar a share.
~ What's Next ?, Well, NOW You Will Get To See ~
Now ?, You (and me) will get to experience and see, just exactly what was attempted to be legally kept from you, had Plan 6 actually been approved and the entire "dual tracking" legal process, ultimately end at the PIERS (hybrid) Creditor Class' ...
... (I say it is a lot', yes $Billions') ...
the relevant changes made in Dec 2011' (mediation) after Plan 6 failed were, the proper subordination of the WMB Bond's (forced by the WMB Bank Noteholders "Accredited Investors") ... Now the WMB Bonds are gone to JPMC along with WMB' ...
... and'
The Process, eventually ends with Tranche 6, as it rightfully should' ... The WMI Preferred Offerings Holders, and the WMI Common Shareholders'
In My Opinion, ... We' ... will be now be notified of the sale of WMMRC', by WMIH-Corp, now that the associated debt' has been paid off ...
(the plan to sell off WMMRC' was a part of Plan 6's original submission, Now ? with the debt paid off ?, this can also be done')
AZ
NOLs are GONE with
"the Final Payment".
JPM paid FDIC-C on or before June 1st, closing the PAA with JPM's Indemnification payment on July 14th. The FDIC-C will push the funds to FDIC-R for distribution to "the Debtor's Estate" WMI-Escrow Holders to complete the "Change in Control" for "WMB and it's assets".
When "the Debtor's Estate" WMI-Escrow Holders realize "the Final Payment", when WMIH will 'Book' the Capital Gain against the Capital Loss and the NOLs are GONE.
The old Capital Loss will be re-Booked as the new offsetting Capital Gain. Hence; No Capital Loss, no 'gives rise to' NOLs.
The current 8-K [Value from the Hawaii Insurance Bond "Assets" which Old-WMI owns] can be 'Booked' against current NOLs, until "the Final Payment" is realized by Old-WMI, and 'Booked' by WMIH.
HLCE,
Ron
Honestly some of the big A's posts are plausible and with which I agree, but a lot of the predictions/claims are utter nonsense, shrouded in ambiguous posts.
What's the real significance of the "assets" ?
It was only a $20 Mil debt that was cleared.
Actually, there were no "hidden assets" in the K-Mart bankruptcy as is believed in WMI's.
The Accounting practices utilized used their acquisition values, causing them to be severely undervalued.
Once their present day values were accounted for, their true worth was realized.
This was only done after shareholders were out of the picture and could not benefit.
That $25 offer "gone down the drain" makes me sad to think about.
This is something to ponder during this process.
Quote
But what if the WMILT closes, and sometime later assets are returned?
Ref: As per with K-MART BK the Debtors did not disclose the safe harbour assets,which at the end shareholders got zero.
At the end the assets gave the new K-MART a big boost and rocketing the price per share close to 500% within a year or two.
So my question is could WMIH end up with this assets just like K-MART and screw escrows?
Comment:
No. WMI the parent has ownership rights. Same token those that have rights to what WMI has rights to will own the same. Here sits escrow holders.
Yep 8 dollars, TD of Canada offered $25 That is when FDIC(government) took and gave to JPM for 1.9
I see up a little in DH, .9888
zeke, didn't JPM offer to buy WM for around $7 ? Maybe that's "fair and reasonable". I'd be thrilled even after waiting so long.
Yes, Exdimer. It was AZ who first made that assertion and then LG agreed. And it was my response to LG disputing the loss of the NOLs that started the entire back and forth about 8-Ks.
Thanks, that explains why they took all the assets.
Unaudited - Last Updated: 11/21/2016
https://closedbanks.fdic.gov/drrip/Ext/BalDetails/10015
Claw I think AZ first asserted such, LG then agreed
Of Course, as usual they are both wrong, and the latest disclosure proves the point as nothing about NOLs mentioned.
Ref: CBA09, I'm guessing you have given this some astute consideration. You feel 3 to 4 bucks per escrows share is "Waaay too little". Then, is 6 to 7 bucks per escrows share doable for common?
Comment:
Yes
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Mr. Cooper Group Inc. (NASDAQ: COOP) provides quality servicing, origination and transaction-based services related principally to single-family residences throughout the United States with operations under its primary brands: Mr. Cooper® and Xome®. Mr. Cooper is one of the largest home loan servicers in the country focused on delivering a variety of servicing and lending products, services and technologies. Xome provides technology and data enhanced solutions to homebuyers, home sellers, real estate agents and mortgage companies.
Upon completion of the merger between WMIH Corp. and Nationstar Mortgage Holdings Inc. on July 31, 2018, WMIH became the parent company of the Nationstar Mortgage Holdings Inc. family including Mr. Cooper (Nationstar Mortgage LLC, d/b/a Mr. Cooper), Xome and Champion Mortgage (Nationstar Mortgage LLC d/b/a Champion).
As of October 10, 2018, Mr. Cooper Group Inc. is the new name of WMIH Corp. On July 31, 2018, WMIH, now Mr. Cooper Group, became the parent company of the Nationstar Mortgage Holdings Inc. family including Mr. Cooper (Nationstar Mortgage LLC, d/b/a Mr. Cooper) and Xome.
As early as late 2006, WaMu would begin to become a victim of what would eventually become the worst recession in US history since the Great Depression of 1929. WaMu's aggressive business strategy would begin to unfold throughout the end of 2006 and become increasingly disastrous through 2007. As housing rates were at all time highs before the recession began, WaMu would use its considerable leverage and assets to make large amounts of loans in both subprime mortgages and subprime credit cards. The banking division of WaMu at one point before the end of 2007 had nearly 336 stand-alone branch buildings where various types of home loans were processed and approved. WaMu would eventually over leverage themselves due to the high number of Adjustable Rate Mortgages (ARMs). As the US economy slowed down, the number of home loan defaults began to rise in quick succession. This coupled with the falling home prices throughout most of the US meant that even with foreclosures and the properties back in the hands of the company, they were unable to sell them back into the market, or were not able to derive enough revenue from the sale to cover the loan that was made on them. In the mean time, the credit card division was also seeing a surge in the number of late and non payments being made.
By September of 2008, WaMu's stock price had fallen to $2 from its previous highs of around $50 just two years earlier. Amid strong voices from the shareholders, then company CEO Kerry Killinger was dismissed by the company board. In the meantime, the company went looking for a buyer for part of its banking division. WaMu had been unsuccessful in finding an appropriate buy until its seizure by the FDIC. Overnight the companies banking division was bought by JP Morgan Chase in a secret deal brokered by the FDIC for 1.9 billion dollars. Washington Mutual Inc. has reorganized to Washington Mutual Holding Inc. WITH SHAREHOLDERS INTACT
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