Mr Cooper Group Inc (COOP)

[CBA09]

Ref You most likely wouldn't debate plastic processing or manufacturing with me.

Comment:

I would be all ears.

[BBANBOB]

I won't debate banking with you , as you most likely wouldn't debate plastic processing or manufacturing with me, it aint your thang

Again thank you sir for both your time and your insight here, it is very much appreciated by all here...........

[BBANBOB]

CBA09
Having been as you have said DIRECTLY INVOLVED in the industry in different capacities , I for one value your OPINION/FACT here far more than I do any of the arm chair dissectors of what has happened here and what is and will go on here, here by a long shot.

Now many of the arm chair guys have given a ton of their own time in the DD that they have supported us with over the years and that is greatly appreciated by myself and I am sure by many others here, but when if you will an expert or one truly knowledgeable in the field enter into the mix, I personally have to look at their view/opinion/facts as a tad more credible....................

Thanks again very much

[CBA09]

Ref: I agree, but pard hopefully you know me by now, I may think one thing but until it becomes a reality IT AINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Comment:

Understood!

I am, by nature, very conservative. Fortunately, these issues of accounting, banking and to some extend legal as related to my career experiences are my forte.

[CBA09]

Ref: Thanks for your input into the discussion of these VIP issues, they are extremely appreciated by all, i'm sure. I do find it odd though that those who often criticize and belittle us less learned posters, seem to religiously avoid any rebuttals to your contributions. IMO, that says a lot!

Comment:

These are not merely my opinions. What I have addressed are based on facts!

Thank you for your kind words.

[CBA09]

Ref: Now CBA09 are you referring to the actual bankruptcy Estate as far as any and all assets because if you are I concur 100% that NONE of this bankruptcy remote assets comes back to the former WaMu Estate?

****HOWEVER***

I assume you are talking about the bankruptcy remote assets AND in my view these ALL come back to the investors who signed timely releases by 2/2012 and who now have Escrow ShareMarkers in their accounts. This all is returned 75/25 all the way to the last bankruptcy remote dollar.

Comment:

Both are correct. As the court has no jurisdiction over assets that are not consideration assets of the estate.

By disclosing the worthless stock of WMI within the bankruptcy filings all "Future" asset value attached to WMI stock goes to the shareholders, ( in our case those that released ). As ownership rights attached to WMI stock, in turn transfers to Escrow Share Markers.

[BBANBOB]

I agree, but pard hopefully you know me by now, I may think one thing but until it becomes a reality IT AINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ODDS and all the known info or docs say IT IS MOST LIKELY BUT, I just try and stay grounded as I have in the past been disappointed a few times, A FEW 100 TIMES in 65 yrs

[hotmeat]

Thanks for your input into the discussion of these VIP issues, they are extremely appreciated by all, i'm sure. I do find it odd though that those who often criticize and belittle us less learned posters, seem to religiously avoid any rebuttals to your contributions. IMO, that says a lot!

[Large Green]

CBA09, you said the following.

"By WMI disclosing, via filing, it's stock in WMI as "Worthless" it effectively reclassified any future assets as bankruptcy remote. Thus, any and all future value will no longer be considered as assets of the estate."

***I also want to thank you CBA09 immensely for sharing your experience and due diligence with all***


Now CBA09 are you referring to the actual bankruptcy Estate as far as any and all assets because if you are I concur 100% that NONE of this bankruptcy remote assets comes back to the former WaMu Estate?

***HOWEVER***

I assume you are talking about the bankruptcy remote assets AND in my view these ALL come back to the investors who signed timely releases by 2/2012 and who now have Escrow ShareMarkers in their accounts. This all is returned 75/25 all the way to the last bankruptcy remote dollar.


In your your view is this correct?

[CBA09]

Ref: I have always wondered if these rules if you will are only governing what happens WITHIN THE BK, but NOT OUTSIDE OF IT.

Comment:

We have some prominent people, Hedge Funds, that are leading the charge. They paid little attention of what lied within the estate.

[CBA09]

Ref: One thing is for sure,that is all entities deemed Equity are not invested so heavy over so many years waiting on the chance they get a crumb at the feast.

Comment:
Cash flow is king. Why were so many Hedge Funds here and did release? Simply put, these "Business Moguls" jumped on here as they got wind of the massive future cash flow being generated.

[gg4]

AZ; with the acquisition of Scottrade by TD Ameritrade do you foresee any problems with the escrow markers? Without a doubt no problem in transferring shares of wmih and others but just a little concerned about escrow markers any thoughts? Anyone else with info please chime in.Thank you gg4

[CBA09]

Ref: How much value? And how would this play out, going forward?

Comment:

Any and All future value returned!

By WMI disclosing, via filing, it's stock in WMI as "Worthless" it effectively reclassified any future assets as bankruptcy remote. Thus, any and all future value will no longer be considered as assets of the estate.

A very clever move!!

[CBA09]

Ref: I actually thought about this very point and had previously been of the opinion that abandonment meant WMI relinquished their full rights of control over WMB. It never occurred to me that this was a move that was legally permissible, if it was done under the umbrella of the bankruptcy.

Comment:

Yes, a clever filing. By fully disclosing as worthless stock at the time of bankruptcy filing it gives WMI full and complete ownership of any future value return. Further is satisfies "Any & ALL" future value returned as assets removed from the bankruptcy estate. Thus future value being bankruptcy remote!!

[hotmeat]

That's why I made reference to the "LT Assets" because they would refer to bankruptcy specific assets. To counter that point though,...why would the LT specifically state to whom the Equity and Assets of WMIIC belong???

[temocat]

Just as in the US bankruptcy of 2008 the main players were in both sides of the deal
We are sitting good

[Johnnyiwantsome]

Very interesting points. There is assets beyond a shadow of a doubt shielded snd once again were cerrtified under abratration after Por 6. The amount of the shielded estate is something we will not know for sure as to the exact the time and or vehicle and mechanism.

Even a run of the mill bk attorney understands as to the how and WHY our lrfal team including A&M shield assets of the debtor from the court; legally.

So as we all see the peripheral and obvious, the true accounting of assets without a full accounting in black in white it is truly difficult to know for sure the true $ Amount.


One thing is for sure,that is all entities deemed Equity are not invested so heavy over so many years waiting on the chance they get a crumb at the feast.

If it were just lowly share holders involved and none of the massive billion dollar players (deemed) Equity then I would agree show is Over!!


I find the mere fact a full accounting of all assets and liabilities may never be known due to the fact a Schrivers error occurred as the trap door for the FDIC OTS Treasury Jpmc and the henchman to save our fincial system from collapse due to Jpmc's collapsing bank becuase their exposure to the Trilateral Repo market.. As all things would be fought out in court and as long as equity could keep its seat at the table some restitution had to be paid .

As last week I made my final call to the FDIC and spoke to my contact whom previously where polite and somewhat accommodating, the final conversation was much more direct and curt as reaction to my pointed list of questions. In the end the call was completed by saying I would need to file a F. O.I.A . to see what more could be provided. WHY so secret? FOIA's are the only mechanism outside of those who are privy to THE SHELTERED true accounting of what went where and whom gained or loss and its related mechanism.
Your post CBA09 is very good and well posed. Your background as a c.p.a.is even more qualifying for the legitimacy of your thoughts! Bravo
C.P.A .
Regards
B

[goodietime]

CBA,
"On another issue,do you think that by WMI having abandoned it's stock in
WMB as worthless will remain worthless? I don't. This was an astute move. By doing so, having this on record within the bankruptcy, any value that returns will not be an assets of the bankruptcy estate and whollly retained to WMI.


How much value? And how would this play out, going forward?
Thank you.

[hotmeat]

Quote..."On another issue,do you think that by WMI having abandoned it's stock in WMB as worthless will remain worthless? I don't. This was an astute move. By doing so, having this on record within the bankruptcy, any value that returns will not be an asset of the bankruptcy estate and whollly retained to WMI."




I actually thought about this very point and had previously been of the opinion that abandonment meant WMI relinquished their full rights of control over WMB. It never occurred to me that this was a move that was legally permissible, if it was done under the umbrella of the bankruptcy.

[dennyduper]

From the first post, yep, you betcha.

[gg4]

Just in case you didn't know Lehman Brothers bankruptcy is not over either. They were the largest Washington Mutual 2nd. Tick tock tick tock

[dennyduper]

Yes on both accounts.

[BBANBOB]

"No reversion (of LT Assets) to the Debtors" clause in the LT Agreement.


I have always wondered since WMI off BALANCE assets could NOT BE USED IN THE BK since they were not theirs LEGALLY by title!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are they actually ASSETS OF THE DEBTOR IMHO NO???????????? ANd especially once this is really over those assets if you will are only earmarked or can legally come to the ESCROW and KOSTUROS has a blank check as to what he has the right to do as a TRUSTEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have always wondered if these rules if you will are only governing what happens WITHIN THE BK, but NOT OUTSIDE OF IT

[CBA09]

Ref Would this really also apply to WMI even though they never securitized or sold any MBS's?

I believe WMI would have transferred assets to WMIIC as it seemed to be their Investment Management Vehicle.

In such a case, how would WMIIC's assets be treated post bankruptcy with regard to the WMILT and WMIHC?

It was specified (in an LT MOR, not sure) that WMIHC owns the Equity and the WMILT owns the assets of WMIIC.

In addition there is the "No reversion (of LT Assets) to the Debtors" clause in the LT Agreement.

I honestly believe we're sill missing a lot of important pieces here.

Comment:

WMI is the parent and thereby have ownership rights to all the assets of it's children, namely subsidiaries. Holding companies are the "Gem" within it's conglomerates. Their survival is dependent upon it's revenue of it's subsidiaries. The courts know this and will support this ownership position.

On another issue,do you think that by WMI having abandoned it's stock in
WMB as worthless will remain worthless? I don't. This was an astute move. By doing so, having this on record within the bankruptcy, any value that returns will not be an assets of the bankruptcy estate and whollly retained to WMI.

[gg4]

I agree dips are buying opportunities. Go Cubbies!

[Theoaktree2017]

Blackshadow just relax,everyone will win in the ends except for non escrow holder,,so just enjoy the ride..

[Olti100]

We both know who we are and who they are and one thing is certain right now.



1.The BK isnt still over from the FDIC in its capacity as Corporate.
2.The Fight againt the hedgies on the IT Claims got settled after two months of Discusions and the TPS got involved and one side acepted in the first hand(majority of them)and the rest did get along because run out of options.
3.The "More than fair and Reasonable"after four years going for five irregardles of your opinion still didnt materialise and geting working out from the Parties involved in the case knowing as much as necesarily but for sure on the highth of their presence on this food chain.
4.The WMIH is right now in the proces of letting him self being tested from the SEC and preparing to issue the Billion of more shares in the return of the Assets from the FDIC R and more than that selling their bussines model to the new Investors to get in after the billion shares get distributed to the Escrow shareholders in the return of their releases given for free to the FDIC+JPM.So the prices of those releases are those to be issued new shares too the old Escrow holders and the dollars to the Serviced MBS from JPM+DB.

So enjoy the ride to come and dont forget that only after the october gone will start the New Era of the WMIH Escrow holders.


Ps My hats of to you too and all Mason group which so proudly tried to make the diference.Thanks for everything you and others did but to Willingham and othe Equity members too which fought and stood against all the Odds against the Crime Syndicate of the WALL STREET.Enjoy the New Week and Life ahead.

Sincerely Altini.

[bkshadow]

Olti100, I'm 100% sure that will not be...

...the sentiment when the receivership and liquidating trust end.

...100%.

Olti100 Sunday, 10/08/17 10:00:28 AM
Re: bkshadow post# 491039
Post #
491041
of 491042 Go
when NOTHING MATERIALIZES (and it won't, other than what's in the WMILT) the praises of Mike Willingham and Susman will turn quite bitter.

Now wonder how would Willingham and More than anything else Sussman known for his integrity and Personality would feel if they would read it from you knowing that you actually fought so much to bring your man in the table with them before the BK was finished.Wish they would read your MEssage and let us know what they thought about it.

Ps IMHO am 100% that Sussman presence and fight on our side gave the tone and the hope to our Fight and we were luck to have Willingham bring so heavy Weight wolfes on our side and am 100% they did the best to give the maximum for the Retail Shareholders and that 100% that the "More than Fair and Reasonable" still didnt materialise its self.My many thanks to them for everythink they done on our behalve for our pockets and Lifes..

...he (MW, conceivably brought in originally) didn't bring in he best either, he tossed the credentialed bankruptcy counsel (along with Joyce) and brought in one (Susman) with little to no such experience at this level.

...with postential conflicts with hedge funds and noteholders of WMI (note Carmody and Third Point).

...again, when all is said and done it will be realized that all that was done is over and all the 'said's were mere fantasy.

[dennyduper]

If it does I’ll buy some more. Dips are buying opportunities.

[2221]

Your pain and suffering shine through just let go let go start relax and you will find peace after all nothing will change the out come either way take care

[Olti100]

when NOTHING MATERIALIZES (and it won't, other than what's in the WMILT) the praises of Mike Willingham and Susman will turn quite bitter.


Now wonder how would Willingham and More than anything else Sussman known for his integrity and Personality would feel if they would read it from you knowing that you actually fought so much to bring your man in the table with them before the BK was finished.Wish they would read your MEssage and let us know what they thought about it.


Ps IMHO am 100% that Sussman presence and fight on our side gave the tone and the hope to our Fight and we were luck to have Willingham bring so heavy Weight wolfes on our side and am 100% they did the best to give the maximum for the Retail Shareholders and that 100% that the "More than Fair and Reasonable" still didnt materialise its self.My many thanks to them for everythink they done on our behalve for our pockets and Lifes..

[Large Green]

Has a WMIH QA Been Triggered – If So WMIH 8K Imminent – Also WaMu 1031 Exchange Information

For a Qualified Acquisition, then all the Series B preferred stock converts. Currently, WMIH currently has 206M shares, so now add in another 342M shares that converts from preferred B and maybe another 61M (Tranche A and B) and you get over 600M WMIH shares. The price is probably dropping due to dilution.

Possibly, we have gone from roughly 200 hundred million shares to 600 million shares outstanding which also took the price from roughly $3.00 to $1.00. So the math works and now we need to see an 8K showing the (QA) Qualified Acquisition.

On another note, remember when ole Rosie tried to cancel out all of equity when he was ready to announce his plan at the very end of 12/2009 but was caught with Joe McMahon “Exigent Circumstances” in middle of 12/2009 so Rosie postponed his infamous announcement of “no money for equity until 3/12/2010 when the stock plummeted with Rosie’s connection to Kevin Stark.

My thoughts now are now is the same plan in effect where WMIH wants to be as close to the end of year 2017 to formalize a QA if it has to do with maximizing various tax attributes? I am not sure but in principle makes sense.

600,000 shares of Series B Convertible Preferred Stock

10,065,629 Shares of Common Stock issuable upon conversion of the Series A Convertible Preferred Stock

342,857,143 Shares of Common Stock issuable upon conversion of the Series B Convertible Preferred Stock

30,700,000 Shares of Common Stock issued upon exercise of the Tranche A Warrant

30,700,000 Shares of Common Stock issued upon exercise of the Tranche B Warrants

The Series B Preferred Stock is not convertible at the option of holders.

All or a portion of the Series B Preferred Stock automatically converts into our Common Stock upon an Acquisition (as defined below) or a Qualified Acquisition, as the case may be. If an Acquisition does not occur, none of the Series B Preferred Stock will convert into our Common Stock. If an Acquisition occurs but a Qualified Acquisition does not occur, only a portion of the Series B Preferred Stock will not convert into our Common Stock. Holders of the Series B Preferred Stock will have no right to convert their shares of Series B Preferred Stock at their option into Common Stock. Furthermore, if an Acquisition or a Qualified Acquisition does occur, the Series B Preferred Stock will automatically convert into Common Stock at a conversion price no less than the Floor Price even if such conversion is unfavorable because our Common Stock is trading below the Floor Price.

In addition, the market price of our Common Stock could also be affected by possible sales of our Common Stock by investors who view the Series B Preferred Stock as a more attractive means of equity participation in us and by hedging or arbitrage trading activity that we expect to develop involving our Common Stock. The hedging or arbitrage could, in turn, affect the trading price of the Series B Preferred Stock or any Common Stock that holders receive upon conversion of the Series B Preferred Stock.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000119312515400186/d29830d424b3.htm


The WaMu 1031 Exchange is Key to Time-frame of WMIH Moving Forward – Hidey Hole of Sorts – Yeah!

• 600 million funding expires-must be returned to investors 1/5/2018 if QA not accomplished

• WMILT – 2nd set of 3-year extension expires 3/19/2018

• If WMILT wants to extend – Court hearing/approval a must

• WMILT must file 6 months prior 3/19/2018 as before-Mid to late Sept-Allow court time

• Currently, only one remaining subsidiary – that is WaMu 1031 Exchange

• This is expected to be dissolved be 12/31/2017

• Please see below what a 1031 Exchange can accomplish

• If JPM receives 645 million 9/19/17 (60 days + 10 business days from Calif Judge Signature) time condenses more

• One can condense timeline due above facts

• Timeline based on previous facts when WMIH files 8K moving forward follows

• That timeline is between 9/20/2017 and 10/31/2017

*WaMu 1031 Exchange*Why Leave One Sub Open hm, hm

Note 9: Investment in Subsidiaries Since the Effective Date, the Trust had five (5) dormant subsidiaries without any active business operations. The subsidiaries adopted a plan of liquidation in October 2012. The assets held by these subsidiaries were comprised solely of cash and cash equivalents. On June 23, 2017, four of the subsidiaries were merged with and into the last remaining subsidiary, WaMu 1031 Exchange. Prior to such mergers, such subsidiaries distributed their remaining cash to the Trust. The Trust received $444,333 on June 27, 2017. The last subsidiary, which no longer has any assets, is expected to be dissolved by December 31, 2017.

From 78 to 93 million in till-No payoff for Piers-Left impaired?


http://www.wmitrust.com/wmitrust/document/8817600170728000000000001


https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=9262133

Consumer Finance
Company Overview of WaMu 1031 Exchange, Inc.

WaMu 1031 Exchange, Inc. operates as an exchange intermediary for 1031 tax-deferred exchanges in the United States. Its services include preparation of exchange agreements and other necessary documentation, management and disbursement of exchange funds, coordination of the exchange with settlement providers, and general exchange assistance to exchangers and their advisors. WaMu 1031 Exchange was formerly known as Lawyers Asset Management, Inc. The company was founded in 1977 and is headquartered in Manhattan Beach, California. WaMu 1031 Exchange, Inc. operates as a subsidiary of Washington Mutual, Inc.
3601 North Aviation Boulevard
Suite 1000
Manhattan Beach, CA 90266
United States
Founded in 1977
Key Executives For WaMu 1031 Exchange, Inc.
WaMu 1031 Exchange, Inc. does not have any Key Executives recorded.

[bkshadow]

dragoon76, read what? The "P&A?" What is...

...the P&A from your reference to the bankruptcy case or to the banking subsidiary?

...there is something known as the Purchase and Assumption Agreement, generally referred to by reasonably informed investors OSM as the "P&AA."

...that is available on the FDIC-C website and has been SINCE 2008.

...not only read it, but fully comprehend it, don't have issues with the 'wording, or other nuances that are confabulated into billions missing though.

dragoon76 Saturday, 10/07/17 07:00:07 PM
Re: bkshadow post# 491019
Post #
491020
of 491038 Go
I just asked you if you read it or not, that's all. simple question that deserves a yes or no answer. No other info is needed.

Stop being salty about not being on the equity committee, too. LMAO !!

...one's not 'salty when one 'turns down the offer, you know.

...when NOTHING MATERIALIZES (and it won't, other than what's in the WMILT) the praises of Mike Willingham and Susman will turn quite bitter.

...the time for "LMAO" was back in December 2011.

[hotmeat]

Ref post #489606 for context....what's your take/comments???



Quotes from post............

"Commentary:
Trust Sales accounting solidified! Reason - Two Tier SPE Entities. First tier (i.e., Depositors - “WaMu Asset Acceptance Corporation” and “Washington Mutual Mortgage Securities Corporation), Second Tier issuing Trusts.


Conclusion:
$615 Billion were removed from the Balance Sheet of WMB in true sales. Neither WMB / JPM nor the FDIC receivership has any claim to these securitized Trust assets.

Further, revenue that has & continues to be generated remains captive within each respective Trusts.

Now the caveat - The holding company generally receives the cash flow from Trusts either directly from the Trusts or indirectly thru it's Depositors. From here the holding company will past "on an as needed basis" cash to it's banking entities. To safeguard and protect the assets received by the holding company it will not have an expressed contractual rights to pass on what it receives."

[hotmeat]

Would this really also apply to WMI even though they never securitized or sold any MBS's?

I believe WMI would have transferred assets to WMIIC as it seemed to be their Investment Management Vehicle.

In such a case, how would WMIIC's assets be treated post bankruptcy with regard to the WMILT and WMIHC?

It was specified (in an LT MOR, not sure) that WMIHC owns the Equity and the WMILT owns the assets of WMIIC.

In addition there is the "No reversion (of LT Assets) to the Debtors" clause in the LT Agreement.

I honestly believe we're sill missing a lot of important pieces here.



Note: getting caught up on missed posts

[fwh3334zeke]

IN your Wildest DREAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[REALtime64]

You mean REAL Rich opens Monday .84 then sinks to low .70's

[gg4]

Got my jogging shoes on!

[hotmeat]

Did JPM purchase ALL of WAMU??? Actual expertise required.......



Pg 2 of P&AA: “Assets” means all assets of the Failed Bank purchased pursuant to Section 3.1. Assets owned by Subsidiaries of the Failed Bank are not “Assets” within the meaning of this definition.”


Pg 9 of P&AA: Section 3.1 Assets Purchased by Assuming Bank


Pg 11 of P&AA: Section 3.5 Assets Not Purchased by
Assuming Bank (Listed in Schedule 3.5)


Pg 11 of P&AA: Section 3.6 Assets Essential to Receiver

(a) The Receiver may refuse to sell to the Assuming Bank, any Asset or asset that the Receiver determines to be: (parts iv + v of v)

(iv) secured by collateral which also secures any asset owned by the Receiver; or

(v) related to any asset of the Failed Bank not purchased by the Assuming Bank under this Article III or any liability of the Failed Bank not assumed by the Assuming Bank under Article II.


ZC!!!

[diamondguru-one]

I'm here for the kmart RUN....its coming.....

[UpTickMeA$AP]

People saying "You better cover your short position!" since 2.25....lol. Shorts have benn the winners for the last year or so. Check a chart.

[Theoaktree2017]

Poor Real your plan didn't go to well.. you better cover your 's shorts position. ..

[wowalters]

You should scroll down, IH has the end of day volume.

[REALtime64]

47K shares changed hands by the end of trading on Friday. Trading volume was down 89.05% under the stocks average daily volume time to let this company die

[bkshadow]

dragoon76, so what is the "P&A" you...

...refer to?

...LOL.

...doesn't appear related to the WMI/WMIIC debtors, WMILT.

...is it the basis for another 'theory of hundreds of billions of hidden secret off balance safe harbor fantasy?

dragoon76 Saturday, 10/07/17 02:20:03 PM
Re: bkshadow post# 490988
Post #
490995
of 491017 Go
Have you seen the P&A?

...again, what is a P&A?

[dragoon76]

Geee....thanks for NOT answering my question. A simple yes, I have read it or a no, I have not would have sufficed, LOL.

[clawmann]

Exactly right.

[bond-007]

Thanks, we will be fine about 100 miles from the cost but I have some trees that may come down not near the house thank God. Good luck all all we can do is wait!

[fwh3334zeke]

We will see what happens after 4 BUSINESS days which is next Friday IMO!

[bkshadow]

draggon76, what is the "P&A" in such...

...esteemed and erudite understanding of the WMI/WMIIC (i.e., the 'debtors) bankruptcy?

...the court documents are absent such acronym.

...thanks.

dragoon76 Saturday, 10/07/17 02:20:03 PM
Re: bkshadow post# 490988
Post #
490995
of 491003 Go

Have you seen the P&A?