Liberation from 25k Day Trading Rule

[Nettles]

oops sorry wrong board.

[Nettles]

the same thing that moved all the currencies, the Fed's decision to embark on quantitative easing. Sorry wrong board! anyway you asked what bumped the AUD on the currency so that is my answer.

[Om Mani Padme Hum]

I'll try to work something in, thanks for the suggestion!

[cintrix]

You might want to add that since the market downfall the major exchanges have suspended certain rules, like the minimum bid requirement. Since they try to take circumstances into consideration for publicly trading companies, why shouldn't they also at least suspend the pattern day trading rules for the people who trade them?

[Om Mani Padme Hum]

Kind of on hold for the moment, been kept busy with work. Still need to piece together the actual wording and figure out the best way to put it together online so people can sign, count will be tallied, etc.

[cintrix]

Are you still working on this petition?

[Om Mani Padme Hum]

[DrHarleyboy]

I too support the destruction of this rule. It is blatent discrimination, and the rule was only invoked because so many clever daytraders made more money the government for a long time. This rule needs to go if only for the reason of monetary discrimination. "At $24,999 you are an idiot Amateur, but at $25,000, you are a worthy of GOD trading status" Please! Where is the ACLU when you need them???

[zigzagman]

That's a great start ~

But it doesn't mention how the Brokerage houses would benefit from the increase in trading activity, which would increase the amount of commissions they earned on a yearly basis by a lot...That would equate to higher taxes paid by the brokers on a yearly basis...

It also doesn't address the extra taxes successful traders would pay at the end of each year...Our government needs money, and this would be a plus to the tax collections made each year...

It's important to note that if Congress passes the additional taxes that are being proposed on active traders, this whole thing is moot...Because no one will be able to afford the extra taxes and day trading will become a thing of the past to many mom and pop traders that are engaged in the practice now...

[Om Mani Padme Hum]

ROUGH DRAFT OF PETITION

Okay, below is a rough draft for the online petition I am creating which will have a direct URL link that can be spread far and wide to obtain maximum signage. Please give any suggestions, ideas, etc. I have mixed in some of the ideas already posted here.

Note that this is going to be the wording for the online petition to be signed, and will be included with a formal petition to be filed with the SEC upon reaching an acceptable amount of signatures.

ROUGH DRAFT:

We, the undersigned, hereby show our support of repealing and/or amending the 2001 SEC amendment to NASD Rule 2520, which requires investors who wish to engage in pattern day trader (PDT) behavior (four or more day trades within a five business day period) to maintain $25,000 of minimum equity in their brokerage account so as to allow individuals with less available cash the same opportunity to profit from the current level of volatility we are experiencing in the markets today that the higher level equity traders are enjoying.

Unfortunately, because of the 2001 amendment to Rule 2520, it is incalcuably harder for an individual that does not have day trading privileges to make a sizeable income day trading. In these economically challenging times the last thing our government should be doing is limiting the ability of our citizens to capitalize on opportunities of financial advancement. Discriminating against individuals with less than $25,000 in cash available to place into a brokerage account is an enormous handicap and hindrance to the millions of citizens who have the right to invest their money as they see fit, but may not necessarily have an extra $25,000 cash to deposit into a brokerage account.

Part of the 2001 amendment states, "The NASD believes that the proposed rule change is appropriate to address the additional risks inherent in leveraged day-trading activities."

But, in reality, the rule can actually increase a trader's risk. For example, a trader may use 3 day trades, and then enter a 4th position to hold overnight. If unexpected news causes the equity to rapidly decrease in price, the trader is presented with two choices. One choice would be to continue to hold the stock overnight, and risk a large loss of capital. The other choice would be to close the position, protecting his capital, and (perhaps inappropriately) fall under the rule, as this would now be a 4th day trade within the period and the trader would now face trading restrictions of varying degrees depending on their broker, potentially incapacitating their trading ability for up to 90 days.

[learning as I go]

Sounds good, and comleted the questionaire

[Om Mani Padme Hum]

How's this sound?

In these economically challenging times the last thing our government should be doing is limiting the ability of our citizens to capitalize on opportunities of financial advancement. Discriminating against individuals with less than $25,000 in cash, those who are suffering the most in this economic crisis, is absolutely wrong and is an enormous handicap and hindrance to the ones who desperately need the ability to capitalize on financial opportunities more than anyone.

(a possible paragraph for the petition letter, critiques, criticism, and comments are welcome!)

Also if anyone has the time to write up a short paragraph such as the one above for consideration to be included in the petition please do!

[Om Mani Padme Hum]

Zigzagman,

Thank you very much for your input! I am actually in the process of creating a petition as I type through a 'petition community' type website.

I also found where to submit petition to the SEC in regards to rule making, including issuing, amending, and repealing.

I am almost done with the petition and will post a link, but I am kind of stuck on the part "letter to target". I can think of numerous things I would want to put there, but am unsure of the wording.

Would anyone be willing to write up a semi-short letter for consideration in using it or parts of it in the petition?

All input is incredibly appreciated. My goal will be 1,000,000 signatures, and I am going to promote the heck out of this petition around the internet. Upon reaching the signature goal a formal request will be made with the SEC, which will include this petition as a demonstration of the support.

[Om Mani Padme Hum]

PLEASE TAKE SURVEY AND SHOW YOUR SUPPORT FOR REVERSING THE 25K MINIMUM EQUITY DAY TRADING RULE!

http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/board_surveymenu.asp?board_id=14995

[zigzagman]

Great board! ~ The $25K minimum cash limit is a bad idea ~~~

For many reasons...I don't have a problem with it since I have two fully funded day trading accounts...One at Fidelity, and one at Scottrade...But, I teach my students how to day trade and many of them are restricted and frustrated by this limit on their ability to make money...Three ins and outs in a five session period does not give a trader a good chance of making a decent income day trading...

The easiest way to get this rule removed would be for the brokers to lobby for this cause...Not only are traders missing out on money making opportunities, but the online brokers are missing out on millions of dollars a year in lost commissions...It would be in their best interests to have this rule removed so that we and they could make much more money per year...

This would help the economy as a whole...The brokers and the traders would be paying more taxes, which would help the government get more money...And it would also help to increase consumer spending from the successful day traders...

IMO, there are many more benefits to removing this rule than keeping it...If every trader would write to their Congressional representatives urging them to repeal this law, that might also help...Maybe someone should start a petition and circulate it on the web until it has enough signatures to be valid, and then send it to the SEC...

Happy Trading,
zigzagman

[Om Mani Padme Hum]

Agreed, a unified voice can move mountains! Thanks for the support.

[Om Mani Padme Hum]

Thank you and welcome!

[Om Mani Padme Hum]

You got it, it's a great run down and covers all the bases concerning the controversy. I've run across so many people expressing anguish over the rule here on iHub that I figured there ought to be a place to discuss it specifically, and hopefully figure out some solutions.

[sykes111]

niiiice, thank you for reposting my stuff!

[spottrader]

The SEC works? I was going to apply for a job there until I read their 360 employee eval. Seems to be a crummy place to work. I assume the lack of SEC "diligence" has attributed to the madness.

I am too for the removal of the ridiculous 25k rule. I will do my best to contribute as much as I can.

[FiremanDave]

Don't have anything yet to contribute but I'm with ya on getting rid of the 25k rule. Glad you started a board on it. Maybe with enough boardmarks,posts,attention from one of the biggest investment board we could somehow start a campaign or help an existing one to end the rule. Let me know how I can help. Dave

[Om Mani Padme Hum]

I am looking for the brightest minds on iHub...

To put forth what they believe is the way in which to remove the $25,000 day trading restriction.

I know it's possible. I know if we could all vote on the issue the vote would be overwhelmingly in favor of removing the rule. But obviously that's not how the SEC works.

So, I ask you. How do they work? What would it take to get this restriction reversed?

All opinions and ideas are welcome, and encouraged!

[Cowboy]

I vote yes to end this (25k min) unfair rule and also feel the brokerages should allow trading at the same prices we see on our level II screens.

eTrade is one brokerage that forces you to trade in whole numbers on Nasdaq stocks when they are trading in 3 and 4 digits numbers.

I have lodged many complaints as I feel this is an unfair pratice.

In other words level the playing field...its our money and they are taking it faster than we can loose it.

[Om Mani Padme Hum]

Welcome, this is quite necessary.

Welcome are any and all contributors to this understanding.

Discrimination is a thing of the past, help us make non-discrimination a thing of the future.