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I am sure there is plenty of his info via the internet.
cintrix, I will do the best I can to learn this strategy via internet. I would enjoy reading the book itself, but can't do so at this time.
Doesn't matter the education or experience one holds if you aren't making $$$. I hate to quote 'greed is good' but it is the single honest advice I've heard so far. You can invest in McDonald's, pick up the dividend each period, and see a 5% appreciation in price per share (pps) thanks to all the value investing you have learned. You could also learn one day (and this is fiction next) that McDonald's kills cows inhumanly and watch the pps plummet. You could invest in Facebook and ride the hype and watch Facebook miss a single earnings and watch the plummet. Each person has a specific risk appetite. Find yours, apply your strategy, and make $$$.
I always ask those I read or post with often how much have $$$ has been made. Sure some will lie but if they respond I'm ahead more than I lose then I feel that's an honest response. Results are important in investing. Results = $$$. Why else are you investing? Ok, some are very wealthy and like the adrenaline run of taking risks. Not me yet.
I have learned a few things about ethics. So why do I play penny stocks? Risk appetite, strategy application, and get out at a predetermined gain. I play penny stocks with Revenue and some other predetermined variables to decrease my risk some. I can go on and on but shhhh MBAMann...
All I can tell you is I was pretty big into this when I first began. I even attended one of his seminars. But now I do the total opposite of all those points. I buy stocks that are down over 15% - that are down because they missed on earnings or something bad happened. I only buy them for the bounce play. His philosophy is the total opposite of how I trade. Not saying that his is wrong - I just don't use it. Here a list of his books:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_11?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=william%20oneil&sprefix=william+one%2Caps%2C295&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Awilliam%20oneil
MBAMann, it took me a few posts to realize that you have an MBA. Again, sorry if I'm a bit on edge. I'm trying to quit smoking. I know for accounting, that penny stocks and TA won't be a topic. Though I know I will learn a bit more about the broader market.
cintrix, this seems like a great strategy. Sorry if I seem a bit on edge, I'm trying to quit smoking. I will probably pick your brain on this subject, like I did with value investing if you don't mind. I believe this strategy will be easier to understand. I'm curious, I know investors/traders use hybrids of strategies. Though do some use both separately?
Everyone needs experience. I've been doing this a long time and still learn things from day to day trading. There is no better learning curve than one that uses experience!
I didn't mean to imply you need experience :). Posting many times to get my point across can be common for me lol. I'd offer you a beverage and some food/snacks while we try to communicate but we're limited by this board :(.
I miss college and learning. But penny stocks wasn't really a topic. Neither was technical analysis with chart reading. I come here to learn from others while gaining experience with the trading.
Well when I first started doing a lot of reading - and this was back in the 90's, William O'Neil was the man when it came to giving advice about growth stocks. He is the Investor Business Daily guy who wrote a bunch of books on the subject. He was the CAN SLIM guy:
Investment Style
O'Neil blends a mixture of quantitative and qualitative strategies in his performance-oriented investing approach. In brief, his investment style is to seek out only those growth stocks that have the greatest potential for swift price rises from the moment they are purchased.
Essentially, Bill O'Neil's motto is "buy the strong, sell the weak." His criteria for identifying a stock that's about to head for the stratosphere are summarized in his well-known acronym CANSLIM:
C – Current quarterly earnings per share have increased sharply from the same quarters' earnings reported in the prior year (at least 25%).
A – Annual earnings increases at a compound rate of no less than 25% (P/E is unimportant – probably in the range of 20 to 45 with these stocks) annually over the last five years.
N – New products, new management, and new highs. Stocks with a good "story."
S – Supply and demand. The less stock available, the more buying will drive up the price. Look for stocks with 10 to 12 million shares outstanding.
L – Leaders and laggards. Stick with those stocks that outperform and shed those that underperform.
I – Institutional ownership. Favor companies that are "underowned" by the top professional investors. (For related reading, see Institutional Investors And Fundamentals: What's The Link?)
M – Market direction. Buy stocks on major downturns, but avoid purchases after a decline of 10% or more gets underway.
MBAMann, I do have some hands on experience with value investing. I think I'm not getting my point across correctly, which is fine. I will follow the link you provided and move on.
Thanks, Gulley
Cintrix has a good point that hands on experience might aid in what you like to trade. I'm biased when I say having a strategy first is key. I did simulations and then applied two strategies to see which I liked the best. Everyone is different on how the learn and trade.
cintrix, no not overload. I just think learning TA itself is too complex of a subject to learn in my free time while in college. I would be open to learn other types of trading/investing strategies. You helped me learn about value investing, which I enjoy. Though I would like to expand on other investing styles and practice them on a stock simulator. Which would give me some experience. I have a feeling you're not understanding me... If not its fine, someone below provided the link. I don't expect what I learn to put me ahead of anyone while in school or at a better chance for a career. This is what I love doing...
There's nothing wrong with reading and educating yourself. I just get the feeling from things you say that you may be on overload and you really don't need to do that. Believe me, when you start trading, you will find what type of investor/trader you will become. Most people don't just look at the different types of investing and pick one. They make a bunch of trades and get the feel for what they like and what they don't like. When I started out I was reading about fundamentals and what everything meant, etc. Now I trade very short term so that doesn't even matter to me. As with any type of work, you really don't learn anything until you have hands on experience.
cintrix, even if I'm going to school for business finance and a minor in economics? The financial market will become my career in the future. So it's not necessarily too far from my studies.
I highly recommend that you stick to your studies in college. When you are done with that and you have time on your hands there are loads of sites and books you can get to better your knowledge in the stock market. You really don't need to learn each and every style of trading/investing. Once you start making trades on a more frequent basis you will eventually figure out what style is for you. I really beleive you are over-thinking all of this. Sometimes too much info can = overload.
Growth investing: http://onswipe.investopedia.com/investopedia/#!/entry/stockpicking-strategies-growth-investing,5228c729da27f5d9d017aab7
Hybrid GARP (growth at a reasonable price) investing: http://onswipe.investopedia.com/investopedia/#!/entry/stockpicking-strategies-garp-investing,522a70abda27f5d9d01b60a7
While you're on the topic of stock picking strategies, here's a guide Investopedia offers: http://i.investopedia.com/inv/pdf/tutorials/stockpicking.pdf
cintrix, I wanted to give you an update. As of lately, I haven't been able to learn more about TA. I have been busy with school, and I have not had a chance to continue reading the book you recommended. Before school I wasn't able to put the book down and got about a third of the way though the book. I am afraid I should put the learning of TA on hold for the time being. With my horrible comprehension I find when I do pick the book up, I am lost. I do hope to continue one day, but at this time I feel it's unproductive. I think I will try to learn something else that is not as complex at this time, that I can learn about and pick up after a few days or weekends. In short, TA is just too complex to learn during college studies. I think until then, I would like to gain knowledge of growth investing. I feel this would be not as complex, I could pick up from where I left off from time to time and would involve research on the Internet. Which is easier than reading a book. When you helped me understand value investing, you gave me an Investopedia link that was very helpful. I have tried to find a link that explains growth investing in an easy to understand manner. Do you have a link to such?
Well, there you go. If you used a stop limit they could only sell them at your price. With a limit order once your price is triggered it turns into a market order and it can sell even lower if it dropped fast.
Just check my AMT, the order was a LIMIT order, instead of a STOP LIMIT. Which, I was side tracked an it cost me. I was trying to sell at 0.03 and some of my shares were hit at 0.025. But, totally my fault.
A stop sell or a stop limit sell? A stop sell turns into a market order once your price is hit.
Cintrix stop limit sell
What sell type did you use?
I made the same mistake not too long ago. Trading while at work, the PPS went high and I wanted to eject before the down turn, I placed the wrong sell type, and lost 2k.
Well, yes you brought up two points. One is that in the situation I gave, there was no liquidity. Second, it was years ago - back in the late 90's when it happened. What I do instead of using market orders in the scenario you presented is that if I really want to sell something that might be moving down quickly due to news or something similar, I put an order in a few ticks under the bid to make sure my entire order fills.
I thought I made it clear that the use of market order was for the case of a fast moving market where the price is moving quickly implying liquidity. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.
Back in the days of handwritten orders on the trading floor, there were more opportunities for shenanigans. Now, with computers and level 2, it's more transparent.
If I didn't have the market depth in front of me, I'd use market orders even less often than I do (and that's less than 50% of the time).
Ok, so you don't use market orders with pennies - that make more sense. I would hope you wouldn't be advocating using them with penny stocks.
As far as that trade with me, it was an illiquid stock. I probably should have put an inquiry in because it was so blatantly wrong what they did.
No, I don't trade pennies at all.
Unless you swamped the bid with your order, I would have gotten in touch with the SEC immediately. Unless the bid was swamped with selling, your broker screwed you and should have made it good or gone to jail. Since the market became computerized, there is a record of every trade and the conditions at the time of execution.
You are using market orders on penny stocks? I can tell you that years ago I put a market order in on a NYSE stock and they filled my sell order $2 below the bid. When I called up to complain they told me that there was nothing I could do since I used a market order. Using market orders on pennies is even more dangerous.
You may want to check if that applies to sell orders. Most restrictions that I have heard of are limited to buy orders.
There you go! I can remember years ago that a lot of brokers didn't even allow market orders on penny stocks, but I never ever use them so I didn't know for sure if they still had that rule.
If you need to sell immediately in a fast moving market, the only way to be sure of selling is to use a market order. I've seen stocks go down so quickly that by the time you've entered a price, it's already too late. The same goes in the opposite direction sometimes.
One needs to be judicious in their use but a market order is the only sure way to get a fill.
My scottrade won't let me trade pennies unless a limit order is placed
If you sell at market, you don't need the AON.
If you have 500 shares to sell when you reach the front of the queue, and there are only 400 on the inside bid, you will fill 400 at the inside bid and then the next 100 at the next lower bid.
If you use an AON limit current bid price, your order will not be executed unless more shares are added to the bid at or above your asking price. Meanwhile several 100 share lots could go off ahead of you.
I NEVER use market orders - too dangerous. But in theory you are right. Especially if you are trading pennies you should not use market orders.
Yes, but there is no guarantee that you will get the fill even if you put your order in at the bid - they might not have enough shares at that price to sell you. I rarely use AON orders. The only time I ever use them is if it is getting close to the end of the day before the close. I don't want to get stuck selling say a penny stock at 100k shares and have them fill me 1k right before the close. It is a waste of a commission.
Actually, if you need to sell immediately, you put in a market sell order. The order should fill at the current bid price when it enters the queue. In a fast moving market, the bid price could go down faster than your order reaches the front of the queue.
AON theory you stated, included?
Absolutely, if you need to sell it right away you put the order in at the bid price.
So another stupid question- to get a sell in, the bid is quicker to fill than the ask?
Once again:
RE AON: It is not a guarantee to fill and it is considered a special order so someone else could get filled in front of you.
I know what AON is, I got screwed by forgetting to check the box, once, in the past. My question is if I have a sell order put in and it should sell, why wouldn't it?
Time to research AON lol. Thx for the inspiration cintrix.
What is AON?
Your sell order would occur according to how you placed the sell order. If you said market sell then your broker/brokerage would try to sell (Ask) at the best price in the line of others (over simplified). If you placed a limit order at $35 then you'd have to wait for a buyer to be interested at $35 who places a limit buy (Bid) at $35 or market order and wait for that line to be dwindled through of sellers (Asks) competing if a market buy. I won't go into other order types yet.
My brokerage told me MM don't have to place my order (buy or sell). Depending on the action occurring and prices it depends how you place the order and all the situations occurring. Best bet is to "slap" the highest Bid showing to sell quickly, if the Bid has enough shares to cover your share count being sold. Or, you wait for your order type to clear if your Ask is higher than the Bid.
First off, I don't think you can even use an AON for 50 shares. There is a minimum amount - you would have to check with your broker.
If you are not clear on what an AON is let me explain it using a different situation. The reason one uses an AON is so that they don't get a partial fill. So say you want to sell 5000 shares of something at $2.00, but you don't want to sell it unless you get the entire order sold at $2.00, you would use an AON. It is not a guarantee to fill and it is considered a special order so someone else could get filled in front of you.
Stupid question but let's say I picked up 50 shares at 2$. I now wanted to sell them at or around the 35-40$ range which is where the stock is at or above. I put my sell in AON, would they sell? What would not allow it to?
Listing on more than one exchange gives the stock more liquidity - I don't know that much about the Irish Exchange regarding the disadvantages to listing there.
What are the disadvantages of a penny stock dual listing in the Irish Stock Exchange??
Thanks I understand free riding better! I do have a cash account.
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