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Good analogy! lol
Level 2 has helped me out quite a bit as a relatively new investor / trader. To me, Level 1 is like purchasing a used car and taking it for a test drive. A test drive may not reveal other hidden things that could be going on with the car. However, it may be enough for some car buyers who have a general knowledge of how cars work.
Level 2 is like taking it to a mechanic and having him point out additional things under the the hood of the car, so to speak. He may find something with the engine, cooling system, etc (MM games, dilution) which may influence your decision to purchase.
I would suggest, as Cintrix said, to try a trial. I am on a trial with InvestHub and may continue with it. I like what it shows and it helps me to make better decisions. However, if you are confident that your test drive (Level 1) is enough, there is no need to take it to a mechanic (Level 2).
Thanks, that answers my question.
MM
To be honest with you, I don't think 2-3 trades per month warrants paying for level II. Don't be paying anyone for level I - you get that for free. If someone is offering you level II trial for free the first month, then try and see if it is worth it to you. You may find that you will be trading more often once you have it. If you find it is not worth the money cancel the membership. Another idea is for you to go to:
http://www.otcmarkets.com/home
there are certain companies that pay them to show their level II for free - I don't know the tickers off hand (maybe someone else can throw you a few tickers) but once you find a few you can study it and see if you like it or not.
I get my level II from Etrade - I think they require that you trade 30 per quarter in order to qualify.
My long term trading usually amounts to a few times a year but my short term maybe 2-3 times monthly. If I make $200-$300 on a short term trade I'm happy. If all I get is bid/ask from level I, I get that with Scottrade. That's not worth paying for. I thought it would have more than that.
As far as giving my credit card, it's not that I don't trust a reputable company like this one it's just that I don't want to sign up for something that only provides something as you say, bid/ask which I can get anywhere.
Maybe I asked the wrong person. Sorry
MM
What do you mean by limited amount of trading? If you are an investor and you are purchasing big board stocks for yourself only a few times a year you don't need to buy level II - level I with current bid/ask should be sufficient. But if you are actually trading (buying and selling equities and not holding them long term) you need level II. When you are buying and selling it is to your advantage to see the mm line up. You can usually judge by looking at level II if something is going to uptick or downtick.
I'm not sure why you don't want to give them your credit card. If it is a reputable company I really don't think you have anything to worry about. Just remember to read the fine print and give them whatever notice they ask for in regards to canceling it if you chose to. If you are nervous about using your credit card online, there is something called virtual credit cards. I know Citibank has it and I use it often. Don't know how many other credit card companies have this option, but it generates a different number for each merchant so no one can steal your card and use it elsewhere.
This is directed to cintrix and sayuncle.
I have been following your thread and it seems as though both of you have a much better grasp on things than I do. The info I got from you is very insightful. Cruising these boards has been the best place for me to learn things I couldn't get anywhere else. The one thing I would really like to know about is, this level 1 & 2 thingy.
Because of the limited about of trading I do, the $9.95 @ month for level I is all I would like to spend. How would I find out it's advantage without giving out my credit card number?
Also, which level do you think is necessary for a limited trader like myself? Would level I help?
Thank you both,
MM
That is a very broad question. With the majority of public companies most information is available via a filing or news release. If it is a reporting company, specific questions would probably be geared toward their business or product. Unless it is a pink and then you might have to ask them questions such as "who is your ta" or "why is the ta gagged?" or "is there any truth to a rumor regarding...", "do you plan on increasing the os?" There are loads of questions.
What are some great questions to ask the Investor Relations department of a company you want to invest in?
Technical glitch. It happened to me when I traded through ShareBuilder. By the way, they charge a grip for trading pennies because they add on an additional fee on top of the commission.
I would suggest eTrade or another service that charges a flat rate. I would have saved a lot if I moved to eTrade earlier.
Good luck.
You didn't mention what type of an account you have. There are so many different balances such as cash buying power, overnight buying power, daytrading buying power, etc. The easiest way to find out is to call up your broker and have them explain why your account is showing a 1760 balance when it should be 450. They will tell you if they are letting you have four times your actual amount or if it is just a technical glitch. They are the ones showing the discrepancy so don't be shy about asking them.
I need a question answered. In my sharebuilder account i have three positions, one for about 50 dollars, one for about 100 dollars, and one for right at 300 dollars, totally 450 dollars worth of stock. However, when i look at my portfolio overview, it shows my account balance at $1760.00 It was accurate until this morning when i bought the new position for 300 dollars. If i look at the details it shows the stock and ETF balance at 1950.00, and the cash value at -200.00, because i bought the stock direct funding via my bank account. But when i open the portfolio it shows the three positions at the values abouve and the total at 450.00 So where is this $1760.00 figure coming from? All three stocks have been steady at the same price they opened at, so that is a non factor, I need help PLEASE!
I have been online trading since 1996. But I will be bluntly honest with you. If I didn't have my spouse's salary (and health benefits) coming in during some really bad trading years I would have been out of this business a long time ago. I also over this time period had to take night jobs at certain times to supplement if I was having a bad year. If you do this for a living it takes a lot of time to learn the ropes and develop a working strategy. And your strategy has to change during market/economy fluctuations.
(or at your leisure without a day job)
lol there is no "at your leisure" if you decide to do this full time and make a living out of it. You have to be a slave to your computer all day if you want to trade.
This full time trading has worked well for me, but as I mentioned, I had other income coming in during the hard times (and you will have them). I personally don't encourage anyone to leave their jobs to do this full time. There have been so many people I know who tried it and are long gone. There are very few of them left from the 1990's when online trading first got started.
Wow. Maybe that is the mistake I was making...investing as opposed to trading them. Out of the 15 penny companies I have been involved in, only 1 appears to be a long term investment and have the customers, product and cash to back it up.
If I may ask, have you been successful at it to do it full time from home (or at your leisure without a day job)? That's where I want to get to....personal trading to the point it surpasses my job income.
Any pointers you can offer to move in that direction are appreciated in advance. Thanks for responding.
I will tell you this and it is MY OPINION regarding investing. Don't invest in penny stocks. Just trade them. I have been trading them for 15 years now and learned the hard way. There are very, very few penny stocks worth investing in. If you want to make money off of them, short term trade them.
Now, to answer question #1 if you decide to INVEST in the big boards, here is a site that tells you each day which sector is going down, up, and flat. It shows its' competitors too. It is divided into sectors. Just put your mouse over the box and it will tell you the company name:
http://www.smartmoney.com/map-of-the-market/
Hi. I need some help with my DD - lots of help! I have had way more losses than gains in penny land (investing less than 6 months) and readily admit I MUST be doing something wrong. I have halted all real trading (but not funding to my brokerage account) and will commence paper trading tomorrow.
1. Is there a relatively quick and easy way to pull up a list of a companies by sector and industry, see their competitors and how the industry/sector is doing overall?
2. What are some good questions to ask Investor Relations after doing your DD?
I cannot think of anything else now. I just know I need to do way more digging into companies and not get so caught up on the share price and look more for the value and potential for growth. The share price has bitten me more than enough times over the last 6 months and it is time to reverse this trend.
Depends on which level II service you use. Some show the full offer size and others abbreviate.
Ohhh, I see. I was wondering who would sell 50 shares at .0001. Thanks for responding. This is the most helpful site I have been on in a long time.
Another thing about your screen shot - you do know that you need to add 00 to the size of the offer. 50 really means 5k
Those numbers always get filled in. In that example say it actually went up to .033 the next ask isn't showing. It isn't going to go from .033 to .185 although I always laugh when I see someone post something like "it's thin from .033 to .185"
Not quite sure what you are asking. The mm lineup or actual prints?
Interesting, going to start looking into the matter as well!
Is this an example of PPS manipulation by MMs?
For example, a stock is generally going for .0005. However, Lev 2 shows sell orders for extremely high ranges such as 50 shares for .05 per share or 1 share for $100.
I don't use Ihub level II but it should say next to the quote the amount of shares on the offering (the size). But it is really just retail that they are showing. There are many times when you will see a mm show an offering of say 5k and way more than 5k goes off and it still sits there.
How are people able to tell that X amount of shares are left before they move up in price? I see it all the time where posters would say "21M to .02" or "10M to go."
How can I tell what's left in order to move to the next price? If it helps, I have a Level 2 through IHub if you use that as an example.
Thanks for the info, hoping i never have the problem
I think it's more the PENSON people which is their (clearing house?). ChoiceTrade uses PENSON also.
Thanks for posting that. A few years ago when this first started (at that time there were only a few companies involved) I was charged two or three times an exorbitant amount for trades I did weeks prior. Contacted the broker and they credited me all of these charges (I am an active trader so I don't know if they would do this for everyone). That is when they told me they would start restricting trades on these companies. Since then they put blocks on any company that isn't eligible and I have never had a problem with excessive charges.
Thanks, RJ5. Zecco's list is MUCH longer. Looks like they want out of the pink sheet game..?
This may help
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=67158239
Although i've seen other lists far longer
Well...I think I'll just do that!
That is the problem - most brokers can't keep that updated. This non dtc eligibility is fairly new thing. Maybe you can call the dtc up and ask them why they don't have a realtime list on their site:
http://www.dtcc.com/contact/participant/index.php
Thanks, cintrix. I found one on Zecco but I beleive one would need an account there to access it...and it comes with the disclaimer that it may not be complete. Seems odd in this hi tech age that such an important list could not be automatically updated to show addtitions/deletions and be available for anyone to view.
I don't think that list is available. I have asked my broker and they said that it changes so often they can't supply me with that info - unless the dtc has a list they update. If you find it post it here.
Anyone have a link to a current DTC non compliant list?
Please keep in mind that this is not a stock picking board. Please don't ask or advise what stock to buy on this board.
good luck to you
That is the size of the market maker's order. Say you put a sell order in at 4903 shares at the ask price - it would show up on the ask next to the mm's name and price. Or say you put in a buy order on the ask at 20000 shares and they only filled you 3k - then the remaining 17000 would be the rest of the offer sitting at the bid.
What does it mean by Size: 17000 x 4903 on a Level 2 display?
Happy 9/11 to all. Hope everyone got a chance to pray for the fallen today. What are you all watching tomorrow?
I think the catch is that at one time years ago you couldn't short stocks under five bucks. Back when I started trading pennies everyone would say that the only ones who could short them were through a Canadian brokerage. But from what I understand it is different now. I don't think you can short penny stocks with the main brokers like Etrade, Ameritrade, etc. but there a few out there that let you short pennies. I have never ever done it so I don't know much about it.
With pennies shorting sounds too easy. With dilution and panic selling it almost seems like you can't loose. From what I've seen most pennies go down sooner or later. So what's the catch? Are the commission costs really high? Is the a time limit to replacing the shares?
no that's not how shorting works - when someone shorts a stock they sell shares they don't own. So they are basically borrowing the shares. Say the price is $10 - but because they don't own the shares they are borrowing them and have to return them. When they return the shares (cover their short position ) it is in their best interest for the price of the stock to be lower than where they sold it. So say that stock went to $8 and they covered there, they made $2 because when they returned the shares it was $2 cheaper from where they sold short.
one more question about shorting. i have heard of it and some what know what it is. how do you make money on shorting a stock. doesnt short sell me sell a stock you dont own? example ill use emll. they were trading at.001 if someon ecame along and tyed to short it down to .0006 but dont own shares only thing i can think of is they short it down to .0006 then they have to buy it at that price for amount of shares they shorted in hope it will go back up to .001. am i correct?
1st off, make sure you have a margin account and not a cash account. By doing this, the proceeds don't have to wait three days. You can use those funds to immediately buy another stock with the proceeds from that sale. If you have a cash account, you can use those funds to purchase something else but you can't sell the replacement stock until those funds clear (3 days later).
2nd you will need at least 25k in your account otherwise you will get caught up in the daytrader pattern rule which says that anyone with under 25k in their account cannot trade more than 4 daytrades within five days. If you have over 25k there is no limit to the amount of daytrading - you can do as many roundtrips as you like.
I explained here to someone else:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=64329208&txt2find=25k
i have a question about day trading. im fairly new to stocks only been trading for 4 months. i have noticed alot of people make money day trading non stop buying and selling same stock that day or next day etc. how do you day and trade what do you need. i tryed it when icbt was doing its runs. everytime i baught shares real low and tryed selling high scott trade wouldnt let me sell they said they would fine me then suspend my account. so exactly what is day trading and how do you do it im interested in learning. thank you T.J.
Sometimes I wonder if the RS "effort", is to decimate the lowly shareholder only, yet "preserve" the trade in value, of pref shares, held by the owners. I was under the assumtion also, that a RS involved the entire SS, and all categories within. I guess it can be for only "part" of the SS........
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