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An article that estimates / guesstimates what Apple paying.
The conclusion is that it's about 57 cents per phone -
much higher than the UK judge. If so, what's wrong
with that judge?
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=e2b75269-4d7a-43f8-9328-d7da9db35c5c
Lenovo is touting the decision as a substantial victory. I sure hope our attorneys do a better job in the appeal. My opinion is the decision is very dangerous for our future negotiations and renewals with our contracted companies. We need to continue to receive a fair value for our intellectual property.
Eagle
Court Awards Nearly $140M To Patent Firm Outperforming The Market
by
Anusuya Lahiri, Benzinga Editor
March 17, 2023 12:09 PM | 1 min read
U.K.'s High Court ordered Lenovo Group Ltd
LNVGF
LNVGF
to pay $138.7 million to InterDigital, Inc
IDCC
-1.29%
+ Free Alerts
in settlement of a licensing dispute.
The Court urged Lenovo to pay the penalty for a license to InterDigital's portfolio of 3G, 4G, and 5G patents and pay in full for past sales dating back to 2007.
The Court will decide whether additional interest is due on the one-time payments.
"We welcome the Court's decision as the first major SEP FRAND judgment that recognizes that a licensee should pay in full for the past infringement of standard essential patents, and we agree with the Court that this could be a powerful way of guarding against patent holdout in the future," commented Josh Schmidt, Chief Legal Officer, InterDigital.
"However, we plan to appeal, as we believe that certain aspects of the decision do not accurately reflect our licensing program."
In January, InterDigital shared winning a critical decision from a U.K. court in the company's litigation against Lenovo.
The Court upheld the lower court decision, confirming that Lenovo infringed a valid and essential InterDigital cellular patent.
In July 2021, the U.K. High Court ruled that the patent-in-suit is valid, infringed, and essential to the 4G LTE standard.
IDCC has outperformed the market year-to-date. Invesco QQQ Trust
QQQ-0.55%
ETF representative of the Nasdaq index has gained 14.04% YTD, while the IDCC shares gained 48.39% YTD.
IDCC Price Action: IDCC shares traded lower by 1.32% at $73.45 on the last check Friday.
https://www.benzinga.com/news/23/03/31397817/court-awards-nearly-140m-to-patent-firm-outperforming-the-market
750K shares will be exchanged through options tomorrow. I hope they are for long positions.
So, if you sum it up, they asked for 317 mil and received 138, which means their crack legal team is on par with their crack negotiating team. Correct me if I am wrong?
Lenovo Says UK High Court Rules In Its Favor In Ongoing Litigation With InterDigital
RTTNews
Mar. 16, 2023, 10:15 AM
(RTTNews) - PC and mobile maker Lenovo Group Ltd. (LNVGY.PK) announced Thursday that the UK High Court has ruled in Lenovo's favor in the ongoing litigation with InterDigital regarding license rates for 3G, 4G, and 5G patents.
This judgment reinforces the company's continued commitment as a willing licensee and validates the license rate Lenovo advocated for.
This is a landmark decision of a Court establishing a modern global FRAND (Fair, Reasonable, and Non-discriminatory) rate for Standard Essential Patents (SEP).
The Court's analyzed the cellular patent licensing history between InterDigital and others, supporting its determination that InterDigital's global cellular royalty rate should be $0.175 per unit.
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/lenovo-says-uk-high-court-rules-in-its-favor-in-ongoing-litigation-with-interdigital-1032173180
The one thing we all learned is that a Lenovo license will be coming in the UK at least. That is after IDCC appeals the FRAND rate UK ruling.
IMO...the only thing clear in the news release from Global Newswire is the following quote.
Is Lenova granted the same rate as Apple/samsung due to discriminatory performance?
According to IDCC press release,
The Court ruled that Lenovo:
should pay a total of $138.7 million for a license to InterDigital’s portfolio of 3G, 4G and 5G patents, and
should pay in full for past sales dating back to 2007
Is the past amount not included? This is contrary to what the reuters news indicated...Am I missing something here?
<<idc offered 337myn for a six year license....which 6 years and when did they make that offer?.... and the 138myn is only through the end of the year......and lenovo will have to negotiate a new license>>
That looks to be the case that Lenovo / Motorola will need a new license
from 2024 forward. But it also looks to be the case that the new license
will required to be at 17.5 cents per phone if the ruling isn't overturned.
Also, don't forget, that IDCC might believe that there's also some non-
standards essential patents that the infringers might be using.
That's important question to ask because I remember that's what
Qualcomm said in their case against Apple.
I don't think L=ovo has ever had a license, just free range Infringers, until now--
accelerated earnings, we are growing at 40% CAR-----we are not getting the premium we deserve
idc offered 337myn for a six year license....which 6 years and when did they make that offer?.... and the 138myn is only through the end of the year......and lenovo will have to negotiate a new license
So Judge Nellie determined that Lenovo should pay 138.7 million for past and future sales from 2007 thru 2023. That is a total of 17 years and comes to approximately 8.1558 million a year.
This decision definitely warrants appeal.
Reminds me of a rate set by the Chinese court in a case some years ago. In my opinion this is a farce.
LONDON (Reuters) - China's Lenovo Group Ltd must pay U.S. technology firm InterDigital Inc $138.7 million for a licence for its portfolio of telecommunications patents, London's High Court ruled on Thursday in the latest round of a long-running dispute.
InterDigital brought the lawsuit against Lenovo in 2019 over the terms on which Lenovo should take a licence of its patents which are essential to 3G, 4G and 5G standards.
The litigation, which has so far featured five separate trials, centres on the fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory (FRAND) terms of a licence for InterDigital's patents.
Judge James Mellor said in a written ruling on Thursday that previous offers made by both Lenovo and InterDigital – which had offered $337 million for a six-year licence – were not made on FRAND terms.
He said Lenovo should pay a $138.7 million "lump sum" to cover past and future sales of mobile devices from 2007 until the end of 2023.
Lenovo described the ruling as "a major win for the technology industry and the customers we serve".
John Mulgrew, Lenovo's chief intellectual property officer, said in a statement the decision "reinforces FRAND's critical role in facilitating transparent and equitable licensing practices for standardized technologies".
InterDigital's Chief Legal Officer Josh Schmidt welcomed what he said was the ruling's recognition that "a licensee should pay in full for the past infringement of standard essential patents".
However, he said in a statement: "We plan to appeal, as we believe that certain aspects of the decision do not accurately reflect our licensing program."
London-based patent lawyer Mark Marfe, who was not involved in the case, said the decision reinforced the High Court's willingness to grant a global FRAND licence.
China is the only other jurisdiction where courts have set global FRAND rates for so-called standard essential patents.
Marfe added that "all eyes will be on the Unified Patent Court", a common patent court for European Union member states which opens in June, to see whether it takes a similar approach.
(Reporting by Sam Tobin; Editing by Mark Potter)
thanks for the additional info. Just go to show you how bad IDCC wrote their statement.
But still no details on legal fees and interest, tick tock
my guess if IDCC was asking for 337mil they won't get legal fees.
Judge James Mellor said in a written ruling on Thursday that previous offers made by both Lenovo and InterDigital – which had offered $337 million for a six-year licence – were not made on FRAND terms.
He said Lenovo should pay a $138.7 million "lump sum" to cover past and future sales of mobile devices from 2007 until the end of 2023.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/lenovo-must-pay-1387-mln-interdigital-patents-london-court-2023-03-16/
vegas options, good point.
The interest alone could be $50 million going back to 2007. That's
assuming a 2.5% rate cumulatively. It's just a back of the envelope
number and I'm trying (just guessing) to use a conservative interest
rate number in what was a low interest rate environment since 2008
forward. It wasn't until recently that inflation and interest rates started going
back up.
I didn't say that IDCC was happy.
The PR is also confusing - it could have been more clear.
I could be wrong, but it does look like the past sales going
back to 2007 is included in the total - that's the way that I'm
reading it. And it makes sense assuming the 17.5 cents
per phone based on Lenovo's / Motorola's annual shipments
that I posted in my prior post.
I think that interest should be added - it almost always is:
<<The Court ruled that Lenovo should pay a total of $138.7 million for a license to InterDigital’s portfolio of 3G, 4G and 5G patents, and should pay in full for past sales dating back to 2007. The Court will decide in due course whether additional interest is due on the past payments.>>
https://ir.interdigital.com/news-events/press-releases/news-details/2023/UK-court-issues-decision-in-InterDigitals-FRAND-licensing-case-against-Lenovo/default.aspx
How many phones does Motorola sell per year?
Following a slight decrease in smartphone unit shipments between 2019 and 2020, Motorola shipped nearly 51 million smartphone units across the globe in 2021, representing a growth of around 18 million units compared to 2020, when it shipped around 33 million units worldwide.Oct 18, 2022
https://tinyurl.com/3yvmn6fu
sounds like IDCC was asking for 100's of millions, so why was IDCC happy?
and is the 138 a lump sum for everything, and nothing going forward ?
"InterDigital, a U.S. company, has been holding out for a "discriminatory premium" compared with the rates paid by other manufacturers — "to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars and to which it is not entitled," Lenovo said in court documents"
Read more at: https://www.law360.com/articles/1455185/lenovo-makes-80m-play-to-resolve-interdigital-ip-dispute?copied=1
Lenovo / Motorola offered InterDigital $80 million last year.
So at least this ruling is higher than that. But it looks like IDCC
isn't happy with the willing licensee aspect of the ruling as well
as the 17.5 cents per phone.
And important question is how does the 17.5 cents reflect on their
other licenses like Apple and the Samsung arbitration. It's
important for IDCC to hit their revenue targets.
Lenovo Makes $80M Play To Resolve InterDigital IP Dispute
https://www.law360.com/articles/1455185/lenovo-makes-80m-play-to-resolve-interdigital-ip-dispute
So at a rate of .175 per unit, what might we expect in income from Lenova going forward? How many units do they sell per year?
Thanks Vegas and Gamco...I was not aware of that part of the story.
UK High Court recognizes Lenovo as willing licensee in landmark FRAND case
Thu, March 16, 2023 at 9:48 AM EDT
LONDON, March 16, 2023--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Lenovo today announced that the UK High Court has ruled in Lenovo’s favor in the ongoing litigation with InterDigital regarding license rates for 3G, 4G, and 5G patents. This judgement reinforces the company’s continued commitment as a willing licensee and validates the license rate Lenovo advocated for.
This is a landmark decision of a Court establishing a modern global FRAND (Fair, Reasonable, and Non-discriminatory) rate for Standard Essential Patents (SEP).
Lenovo’s John Mulgrew, Vice President, Deputy General Counsel & Chief Intellectual Property Officer, welcomes the decision as follows:
"Lenovo thanks the Court for its judgment in InterDigital v. Lenovo. We see this as a major win for the technology industry and the customers we serve, as it underscores both the importance of fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory terms for patent licensing and the requirement of transparency by patent holders engaged in licensing practices.
We are grateful for the Court’s careful and objective analysis of the cellular patent licensing history between InterDigital and others, supporting its determination that InterDigital’s global cellular royalty rate should be $0.175 per unit. With this judgment, the Court has confirmed that Lenovo is, and always has been, a willing licensee – even in the face of InterDigital’s supra-FRAND offers and behavior as an unwilling licensor.
In the meantime, we are pleased that this judgment reinforces FRAND’s critical role in facilitating transparent and equitable licensing practices for standardized technologies – enabling the proliferation of affordable innovation to customers around the world."
The full judgement will be available on the National Archive website later today under case number is HP-2019-000032.
View source version on businesswire.com: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230316005489/en/
Contacts
Stuart Gill
sgill@lenovo.com
The way I read it is, all they are getting is 138 mil for infringement, not clear whether there is a thru date (like 12/31/22) or is it one lump payment for everything? Motorola is not part of the case and there is no action against them.
It's a British court so do we get legal fees also ?? And then he has to rule on back interest, too.
Remember Lenova offered 100 mil a year ago.
IDCC is going to appeal, so do we get anything before the appeals plays out? Will Lenova appeal. More questions than answers.
Could be one of the worst PR's I have ever seen. And Mr. Market yawns
Monterey2000, Court ruled Lenovo is a willing licensee...so no penalties.
Looks like IDCC wants more and plans to appeal...
Monterey2000, I do not know if Lenovo bought the liabilities or not.
So does Motorola pay in full for past sales dating back to 2007?
I believe that the $138.7 is before interest, penalties, lawyers fees, etc. Lenovo bought Motorola phones at the end of 2014.
So is the 138.7 just for this year, or is it a paid-up license going forward?
Let's keep an eye out for any analyst comments
I'm dreaming of $4. Been waiting a pretty, pretty, pretty long time.
How about a dollar/share divvy?
And a special dividend would be nice. Buh-bye shorts, lower litigation costs going forward, WOOHOO!
Sounds good to me....that's a very explicit ruling!!!!.
UK court issues decision in InterDigital's FRAND licensing case against Lenovo
7:30 am ET March 16, 2023 (Globe Newswire) Print
GlobeNewswireMarch 16, 2023
WILMINGTON, Del., March 16, 2023 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- InterDigital, Inc. (Nasdaq: IDCC), a mobile and video technology research and development company, today announced that the UK's High Court handed down its judgment in the company's licensing dispute with Lenovo.
The Court ruled that Lenovo should pay a total of $138.7 million for a license to InterDigital's portfolio of 3G, 4G and 5G patents, and should pay in full for past sales dating back to 2007. The Court will decide in due course whether additional interest is due on the past payments.
"We welcome the Court's decision as the first major SEP FRAND judgment that recognizes that a licensee should pay in full for the past infringement of standard essential patents and we agree with the Court that this could be a powerful way of guarding against patent holdout in the future," commented Josh Schmidt, Chief Legal Officer, InterDigital. "However, we plan to appeal, as we believe that certain aspects of the decision do not accurately reflect our licensing program."
EDIT - I see you're already aware of this
https://www.reddit.com/r/LWLG/comments/11rca6y/my_ofc_experience/
Yes, he apparently did want to update that for you as he felt that his statement was misinterpreted, but is locked into one post per day limbo.
He replied to me earlier on IHUB that many were in the room, but the conversation was between the four people. I notice my posts have been removed as well as KCC's.
Loop, Reddit is temporarily offline - KCCO stated that in this case proto did not exaggerate and that Lebby did indeed silence the room.
I suddenly cannot get into Reddit. I guess I have been removed. Proto was not right about silencing 250 people during the rump session. The conversation was between KCC, Richard and two LWLG representatives.
MO
loop
Loop, KCCO responded to you on Reddit/LWLG. It appears that proto had that particular bit of hype correct.
my3sons87, Yes they can to all of the cases you state. The reason I am interested in the institutional holdings is that it was over 26M shares as of Dec. 31
Vegas are the institution’s allowed to own shares and short shares at the same time, or loan them out to shorts. Are maybe have a subsidiary company short them? How does that work, if at all.
It will be most interesting to see the end of quarter institutional ownership. We know by default insider ownership went up due to the Dutch auction. To have 3.83M shares short out of 26.93M should make it exciting...
cat....you took the words out of my mouth....short term treasuries are yielding 5%....the coupon on the converts is 3.5%.....that is the textbook definition of positive carry.....good work if you can get it...especially in this market!!!
InterDigital sues OPPO in the UK, India and Germany over 3G/4G/5G and HEVC
2023-03-12 10:26 HKT
Remember the Christmas lawsuit between Ericsson and Samsung at this time last year? At that time, the two license agreements expired, but the new negotiations have not progressed. So Samsung took the lead in issuing a unilateral counterclaim injunction "Christmas gift" to Ericsson in the Wuhan Intermediate Court.
Ericsson was even better. During the Christmas holiday in the United States, the Texas court successfully issued a counter-suit injunction to Samsung for overtime on December 28 and responded with a "Christmas gift". The energy behind it can be seen.
But the dispute between the two companies was quickly over within half a year. But this "Christmas gift" stalk left is probably remembered by others.
I wonder if each family wants to carry forward this "SEP Christmas gift" tradition?
Just now, the documents disclosed by InterDigital to the US SEC show that on December 20th and 22nd, it has sued the Chinese OPPO company and its affiliated companies OnePlus and Realme in the UK, India and Germany, accusing it of infringing on InterDigital. 3G, 4G/LET and 5G patents, as well as HEVC patents, and seek injunctions.
Although it is very likely that there is no direct connection between InterDigital and Nokia, this kind of "group" to sue a company will obviously consume OPPO's internal resources, because fighting a lawsuit consumes the fighting power of the corporate IP department.
From the OPPO point of view, this is currently the only Chinese company that has rushed forward to resist the "5G reasonable rate" of foreign rights holders. Therefore, the joining of InterDigital this time makes me think that this is not an attempt by Western rights holders to join forces. A move to encircle and suppress China's "pioneer" rushing forward.
Because the future 5G coverage is too wide, the US think tank had a special report in November to recommend to the US government , so if the 5G rate OPPO fails to take the lead in setting a reasonable range, I am afraid that many Chinese companies will have to follow suit.
Since 2019, InterDigital has sued Huawei, Lenovo and Xiaomi, all in the United Kingdom. It seems that InterDigital prefers the rulings of the British courts.
On August 3 this year , it reached a settlement with Xiaomi and also signed a package license agreement including 3G, 4G, 5G, WiFi and HEVC video technology.
The litigation with Lenovo is still ongoing. In a latest ruling in a British court on the 16th of this month, a British judge rejected InterDigital's request for an injunction against Lenovo, but this is only one of the five patent litigations of both parties. The "bad war" between the two sides is still going on.
Therefore, InterDigital continues to sue OPPO before completing the litigation with Lenovo, which is also a considerable expense for it.
But in order to receive royalties, InterDigital also has a budget for "war" each year.
For example, its financial report shows that in 2019, InterDigital filed a lawsuit with ZTE, Huawei and Lenovo, and sued Xiaomi in 2020. This has caused InterDigital's IP enforcement costs in 2020 to rise from US$25.4 million in 2019 to US$28.6 million, accounting for 17% of its total patent management and licensing costs (US$170.2 million) in 2020.
According to InterDigital's financial report, in 2020, revenue from Apple, Samsung, and Huawei accounted for 31%, 22%, and 15% of its license fee income that year, reaching 111.7 million U.S. dollars, 78.5 million U.S. dollars and 52.1 million U.S. dollars, respectively. The fourth place LG contributed more than 30 million U.S. dollars.
So it's not clear whether this is a battle for Christmas gifts, or whether InterDigital also wants to learn from China's surprise spending at the end of the year.
https://min.news/en/digital/8c6eabc7dcfa4b5a0a24a5fda385c07c.html
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