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Former king Mohammed Zahir Shah has become a focus of international efforts to form a broad-based post-Taliban government. Some high-ranking Taliban officials in Kandahar have agreed with supporters of Afghanistan's former king to join a national reconciliation government, a top Pakhtoon leader said on Sunday.
Karzai is one of three Pakhtoon leaders in southern Afghanistan who have been negotiating with the Taliban leadership inside its spiritual bastion of Kandahar with a view to ending the siege without bloodshed.
"Some Taliban, including high-ranking officials, are in contact with us. They have agreed to national reconciliation and to the establishment of a national government," former Afghan deputy foreign minister Hamid Karzai said by telephone from the neighbouring province of Uruzgan. But he declined to give the names "for the time being" of the Taliban officials concerned because it "could endanger their safety".
Iqbal Latif
<Ike, what do you make of the Northern Alliance's recent public warnings to the British and other foreign troops ?
I am beginning to sense a power play on their part that I believe will end badly for all involved !>
I think big man jockeying for power. When it comes to power even to be exercised on powerless people of Afghanistan every warlord gets a kind of tingling in his head.
Power and marking territory are traits of our animal nature, like lion that does that by pissing on larger areas so that other lions are well aware of his territory.
Much as we dislike it we all at one given time are corrupted with the desire to control our little territories that we hold dear and protect them. Moderates, extremist and nicest of human beings do trip on small things. Here, we are talking about people who have not seen anything but incessant war as an easiest way to survive rather the only way ofl ife. These are hollow howls of tame wolves positioning for their hefty returns and booties to continue rule with ironclad ruthlessness. The pre bargaining challenges for the negotiating table will include some difficult moments. Much as everyone would like to say that nation building is not an issue here, every major war in the last century has seen politicians acting as surgeons with scalpels and marking new territories with whims that have left sore hot points to tackle with.
Afghanistan needs that little more effort to put it on course of avoiding the recreation of a place where warlords may roam free and once against the dream of creation of a new decadent 1400 old system may not be attempted again.
With progress comes the responsibility, we like to take the advantages of development and shy away form responsibility, events of 11th Sept have opened new vistas as to the collective consciousness of mankind, it has one hand driven a cold dagger in the very heart of our ambitious claims of global integration but on the other it has quickened that goal too. The prospects of division and unity working togehter in tandem.
The demise of League of Nation and lessons learned from it led to formation of UN, that is far more better equipped in this toothless world to implement the resolutions, notwithstanding sometime in vain, but with obligation comes the disappointments too.
War is a combination of such obligations and disappointments, we have become a fast world, we need instant gratification in our stock markets, in our daily lives, the faster pace of the world events have grown on us, until we don’t see we don’t believe. Last 42 days of bombing did not have much coverage as the war was secretly fought; the Americans as well as Talebin hid the damages with equal fervour. For the only sake of avoiding negative publicity and avoiding morale and confidence collapse respectively. When fall of Kabul came it came like a pleasant relief although anyone watching it closely could see it coming, after al these heavy bombs were falling somewhere, if one misguided one could have take an ugly toll the interesting thing I my mind use to be why Talebin are unable to talk about the ones falling on targets. One could imagine that hiding pain and taking losses were their strategy that collapsed once the push came in, the fronts had become too porous and NA could just drive in. The bombs have no mercy on any man, the invincibility of Talebin proved to be of no consequence.
Wars and disputes have their own politics, this one is amongst people who are genetically pro- gun, most of their individual disputes run over centuries, revenge and grudge that runs through their hearts becomes the real personification of their transactions.
For me in this complex backdrop that faces the allies I would be very unsure of finding quick solutions with the Northern Alliance. They have tall ambitions and they have huge backers too, but if people of Afghanistan will have say they stand no chance to rule Afghanistan. The populace of Afghanistan the Pushtuns will have in all probability a Southern Alliance soon, I see that federation of Afghanistan will be an issue here. I expect UN to land a lot of forces and that will help defuse the NA. A broad based government is in offing; the very reason that NA is on the fringe despite of taking of Kabul is an indication that this time around power brokers and power negotiators have due considerations of the sensitivities of the area well in sight. These guys can demand anything but will not get any due preferences, the object that Afghanistan should ever become a political vacuum and huge expanse of land with no firm government ripe for a take over like that of Osama is the objective. Our area is far too sensitive, sitting at the confluence of 2.5 bn people we cannot ill afford too much of serious disputes in our areas. The fall of nations have huge consequences in terms of human life. I will reiterate the fact that this is only geographical configuration where four declared nuclear power sit with their own ambitions and agenda, from Tibet to Kashmir, there is no scarcity of issue of pride and self determination that each nation defines differently. Add on to it the Chechnya’s and volatile situation in Iran where revolution is failing as extremists try to bring Khatami down, I see that this is not the last time we are busy talking about this area, Saudi Arabian situation post Osama also may be quite fluid too.
All in all a peaceful all-inclusive settlement in Afghanistan will herald a new day for mankind as such, a failure will be a failure for all of us. This is unfortunately such a integrated world that lie we share our atmosphere, we have share little burden of giving right governance to the people, considering that history demands that as a result of colonialism may justify the expectations in the southern hemisphere, more so our economic prosperity is so much dependent on that peace premiums that we all tend to forget and take it as granted. Distance from hot spots and close integration of our individual economic fortunes with such distanced lands misery shocks many to the extent of unbelief but such is the reality of the 21st century cyber world. Although our pleasures are not the same our pains are common. This is new realism that I live with and have comfortably adjusted, it as not uneasy for me, coming form that area but I can understand this huge challenge which will be difficult for some one living thousand of miles away. I can totally recognize the position ‘what the heck this none of my business!!’
Difficult interesting time that we live in. As I always keep repeating world is but one country mankind its citizen, welcome to new federation, who will be our Captain Picard??ggg
Iqbal Latif
Good point<<The US equities market is soaring on excess liquidity with mediocre earnings and heavy debt.. an unsustainable condition. Managed inflation with growth has been the solution, but if it backfires we'll be like the Japanese.. with debt inflating against deflating asset values. Stocks, seen in that light are very much overvalued.>>
Deflation is a worry, and debt overhang is a major issue with Japan.
Asset inflation has been the biggest problem with Japanese economy inability to deal with this slowdown since the break of the market. The asset bubble of Nikkei and real estate bubble that led to equity inflation had one marked difference with US model in present case, the Japanese banks had a huge exposure to real estate and equities at the same time, when Tokyo central properties were selling for 1 millon $ /sq m, the banks were landing on a house of a 1000 sq-m a cool 900 million, the borrowers were taking out that kind of equity and investing it in Nikkei to lead Nikkei higher to 35000 level, they would than come back to the bank with SNE over inflated stock and use their stocks at 31000-35000 as collateral to borrow 90% of the stock valuation and reinvest in a market that was going higher.
The double whammy was compounding as market kept going higher and so did the real estate valuations. Now same thing happened with Yahoo, imagined based on that 400$ / share Yahoo Amazon shares someone would have borrowed 90% to invest in prime real estate in Manhattan, imagine if this was Citicorp, who than would have valued the new real estate asset at three times the acquisition and lend more money, when the internet market came home to roast, the stocks now trading at 16 would have not provided any collateral against the bank lending so would be the fall in real asset values of assets purchased by the borrower. The banks in USA if I am not wrong do not have this kind of exposure, the reason is the huge losses of Venture capital market. Other factors and similarities cannot be overlooked in discussing comparisons to Japanese deflation like the fact that prices are falling in US but limited to few commodities only, there is no sustained decrease like in case of Japan. The lack of sustained price fall is one clear difference. Price fall in Japan has made consumer complacent in case of USA the customer is taking its chance and spending like car figures and housing figures are showing, live is moving on. Productivity increases have helped, and prices fall is revving up demand from people who are pro consumption inherently unlike Japanese.
In case of US banks unlike Japanese Banks if I am not wrong VC’s supported most of the capital expenditure on information technology 600 bn $/ annum binge. Now that expenditure has trickled to 350-400 bn $/annum the chances that we will see Naz rallies like the one we saw in 99 are difficult proposition. However, once most of the paper profit has disappeared and Venture capitalist have licked their wounds enough, I would suggest that huge charges taken by VOD GLX Marconi LU Nortel JDSU have helped writing down the goodwill of these businesses to a realistic levels.
If like Japan, US banks would be involved where last few mentioned have written down 290 billion $ accumulatively, the BKX index would have gone through that 750 support and created unwinding of that asset inflation bubble that leads to double whammies.
The difference here in US and Japan is that in both countries asset valuation had been blown out of proportion but in US the losses were taken by private big money, the concept of creative destruction is very pertinent along with Banking lack of exposure to communication capital spending. VOD and Marconi both have huge loan books but both their loans are fully collateralised by good assets with lot of cash flow, the present low interest rate environment is helping them quite a bit to carry this cost. If VOD would have been unable to support the exposure than this whole game would quite different.
If you remember Resolution trust US was quick to take that 650 bn $ over build, although banks were not directly involved the companies involved in RTC related businesses were liquidated and done with.
Japan could not act to put business out of business!! The creative destruction of business is very strong point of US where in Japan it is considered as a loss of face. Creative destruction strengthen the system in Japan they maintain the losing businesses far too
long.
Iqbal Latif
<< In a 1995 Forbes interview, he described the principle this way: "You are trying to buy a share at the lowest possible price in relation to what the corporation is worth. And there's only one reason a share goes to a bargain price: because other people are selling. There is no other reason. To get a bargain price, you've got to look where the public is most frightened and pessimistic.
"The time to buy is when everyone else is scared and you're a bit scared yourself."
Templeton offers an important caveat: It's not enough for a market or a stock to be way down. There must be good reasons for it to go up. Some of today's tech stocks are down 90 percent but still trade at more than 30 times earnings. At the time of the Forbes interview in 1995, Japanese stocks were down 50 percent but still were trading at a P/E ratio of 90: far too pricey for Templeton. Today, Japanese stocks are down another 50 percent.
Templeton's approach is so counterintuitive that few of us have what it takes to be a great investor like him.
The best thing about mutual funds is you don't have to be a great investor.
Successful investing can come from being able to recognize great investors and placing your money in their care.
So put your money with some of the great money managers that are actively managing mutual funds today. Names such as Bill Miller, Mason Hawkins, Bill Nygren, Glen Bickerstaff, Sig Segalas and many others.
Templeton's 1995 assessment of the future still sounds accurate to me: "Progress is going to speed up, not slow down. In the long run, people who invest in common stocks of well-managed companies will be better off than people who put their money in other forms of investment. You want to be an owner, not a lender." >> Just read this..
Iqbal Latif
NA have already allowed lot of Britsh troops in today.
Iqbal Latif
Social contract, terrorism, oil prices and economy.
I agree with you and the world economy certainly runs on oil. If we continue to see the dramatic fall in oil prices, nothing will help the world economy more than the reduction in price. As I have highlighted before, the world economy is assisted by the interest rate cuts but falling oil prices is by far the best thing happening in the world economy today.
If you look back to my post on the 13/14 Sept, you will find that I have made the need of falling oil prices as important as a Fed interest rate cut. The reduction in oil prices has put a lot of extra consumable cash in the hands of the consumers. That is indeed very helpful in the current situation.
Lower interest rates are helping people buy more cars and making more mortgage applications as you may have noticed today. It is a sharp historical rise in mortgage applications and this naturally depicts that the housing industry will come out all right. If you associate the events of 11th September that have hit consumer sensitivities and confidence with what we are seeing right now, the reassertion of American strength and the ability of America to exert its will on bandits like Osama, Omar and Atef have played a very positive role. The ability of America to exert is a very pleasant break from 8-years of Clinton era dilly-dallying where Khobar was hit, Kenya was hit, Tanzania was hit and Cole was hit and the guys in the jungle used to have the last laugh. Few tomahawks worth 100 million dollars to strike a thousand dollar worth of shacks were the typical response.
Now in my opinion, the economic recovery of the US, post 11th Sept, is dependent on this new found resolve by the US that “enough is enough” and Americans cannot be kicked anymore. President Bush and his colleagues have made all of US proud that today American blood is not a cheap commodity. No one can get away from such a foul act and the sick minds of the world are watching the events in Kabul and Kandahar with great keenness and taking due note of the American resolve. Having said that, it does not mean that there will not be any untoward incidents but once resolve is established and the consequences of the price paid is known to the underworld the propensity to act is greatly diminished. Of course, on the other hand the new wake America policy is a great thing to check suspicious events is in itself very helpful and would help restore that critical missing link that sorely went missing post 11th Sept.
The special services group following leads and creating roadblocks in the hinterlands of Afghanistan trying to catch the culprits is a new kind of extended defence of US interests. This kind of strategic out-stretch will have positive repercussions on the US population. 11th September was a dark day for mankind but there is a silver lining to the dark clouds. It was the day that the US has announced to the underworld of the globe that it shall be no more and never again. America is going to use its muscle and use it blatantly and I would consider this announcement of military courts must have sent tremors down the spines of many in the underworld.
I will give you an example in the form of Ghaddafi. He was a great sponsor of terrorism and when President Reagan took the war to his desert camps and his family, the world has seen the Libyan appetite for terrorism to practically disappear. The situation was bleak for the American populace but all of a sudden, things have changed. Last Saturday when the plane came down as a result of an accident, things looked ominous but like it is always darkest before the dawn and that was the hour when we say things starting to change rapidly. First Mazar-I-Sharif fell, then Herat, then Kabul and Kandahar is dusted and done with.
Here we see right in the heart of Afghanistan, US Special Forces are following the criminals like they would be in Texas. That would raise confidence in the American public to new highs. I allow that there are a lot of apprehensions and when I made that call that it would be all over by the 17th and made my quantifiable Dow and Nasdaq points, it was not seriously taken but like that Sunday call when the US Supreme court would stop the Florida Supreme court decision on recounts, there were again some sceptics. I look back in this thread that the underlining reason of our arguments are very cogent and if anyone else or recognised publication had made such kind of pronouncements, they would have been giving due credit. The reason that they are made in an obscure corner of SI and no due credit is paid is the very reason we continue to make such groundbreaking new outlooks, which are outlandish on first ground, but a lot of history and geography goes into it.
Today when we make this assumption that economic interrelatedness to terrorism, some people thought it was a sheer waste of Ike’s time but as I come back to the market and find my bearings, I take it as my moral responsibility to highlight my intellectual reasoning for my pre-occupation with war. Here I am trying to deal with issues of our analysis towards future economic cycles and the events of the present; the eradication of Osama and the addressing of the poverty-stricken world, quality of life of women in Afghanistan. All these issues in my “confused mind” are going to determine the PEG of MSFT. This is the kind of foolish inter relations I develop and I enjoy them.
Mixing Osama eradication with the PEG of MSFT is in itself a groundbreaking assumption like my quantifying of the Al Qaeda elimination in Dow and Nasdaq terms, 1500 and 300 points. Who else would do that on the street? That brings a lot of conflicting arguments and thoughts who may disagree with but the ability to think independently helps me make this thread an interesting place albeit some consider it to be a maverick approach to the markets which I understand. Keep in the same vein, the US population are seeing the results of their proportionate response and this will show up that the lingering Consumer Confidence Index will find its bottom around 92 and increase from here. Economics is a science that has become so impractical that most of the time the political, social and strategic aspects of the economy are totally ignored.
If I am ever asked to speak to Economic students and lecture them on global economics, mine would be a tour de force that would include the ‘political and strategic’ underpinnings of our global economy more than micro and macro factors. Global economy does not operate in a vacuum, rather within a context of a social contract. That contract is a contract that demands respect of norms and civility of actions between nations. Take this contract out and you destroy the very fabric of this ‘social contract’ that insists on the civility of relationships and consequently we enter into an ice age of a depression.
Subsequent to 11th Sept, when people fear flying and flying becomes an effort, it is not just flying; it is the whole service industry that goes into a tailspin. 60-70 million visit France every year. Cut this interactivity and integration of global economy and you’re left with a French nation that would result in a severe depression. The last 2 months, analysts like myself, on the minimal fringe of the mainstream focussed too much on these events because for people coming from my background of ‘global integration’ the events of 11th Sept have been an antithesis of what I stood for. My bearings were just not there. I could not relate to the markets for the simple reason that I could see that if this attack on the basic human attributes were not confronted with the relevant response, we would not have any global economy. The 1930 depression would be perceived as a growth period if 11th September attacks had gone unpunished.
This was the reason I was preoccupied with this economic relationship to peace. Some considered that as a propaganda others Ike gone tangent. The fact in my head was that ‘there is no economy without global tranquillity.’ The ultimate result of the 11th Sept attacks is the undeniable fact that damage has been done but equally nicely sited is the ray of hope emerging due to the firm actions from the US.
I would have thought that the slowdown in the world economy may be restricted to a light recession, which has been built in into the market, and even the IMF has stated the world might not enter a recessionary period. I expect that the grim economic news will continue and that some airlines might go bust, more job losses, some truly dreadful earnings BUT I’m confident that with the way the present events are unravelling, the most important element that was sorely missing from our equations, that of consumer confidence has returned. All economies are about confidence and sentiment like President Johnson said “ All politics is local”. In a similar vein, the economy is made up of consumer sentiments and confidence.
The reason Japan could not come out of its Ice Age recession and all us economists have gone into a rip van winkle sleep waiting for that revival is that every Japanese knows that tomorrow things might be cheaper hence no interest in spending today. Here in the western economies, we are seeing low interest rates, falling oil prices and lower tax rates. In Japan we have lower interest rates, falling oil prices but higher tax rates and larger budgetary deficits. The US economy after such a severe examination of its strength has survived its test of spending otherwise car sales and mortgage applications should have shown a lowering trend. In Japan the reduction in rates, in the last 5 years, has not been able to show that strength in the housing sector and non-durable goods and spending habits. Japanese are still net-savers believing that next year will be cheaper. The key tests of any recessionary economy of lower consumer spending on non-durable goods are a hallmark of today’s Japanese economies. Even after the horrific incidents, the US economy has come out well ahead.
Imagine if Japan had suffered such a blow. I don’t think their economy or their consumer outlook would have been able to sustain such events in their economic cycle. The ability of the US to sustain these body blows at the lows of its economic cycle augments my argument that I have been at the forefront of the beginning of this so-called recession that yes from a red hot state of 7% growth, we did come down to 2% growth but even in the present state of the US economy shows me green offshoots clearly visible. My hats off to an economy that can sustain such a blow and still be so optimistic to go and buy a car or house and to just spend.
Economy is a science of living and if we disassociate living and hinder the learning of this science with some out of the world graphs we complicate issues. On global events and every issue, I have a philosophy to keep it simple silly. I try to make my markets or my economic outlook to how an ordinary bloke on the street would like to understand it. I would reiterate that lower taxes, lower prices, lower interest rates, lower oil prices and a 2-2.5% growth rate would be an ideal mix and I think we would achieve that in the first quarter of 2002. Best regards Ike
Iqbal Latif
There's 25 million dollars reward on Bin Laden's head, he should get caught very soon. However, per news, Northen Alliance's already telling U.N. to stay away from the Kabul.
<Global economic weakness has effectively yielded an OPEC tax cut, however. The price of the North American benchmark West Texas Intermediate has been testing the $20 mark and, in some instances, has fallen below it. A sustained decline in crude oil prices would be very beneficial for a U.S. economy that needs all the stimulus it can get. Lower crude prices inject additional purchasing power into the economy and, in addition, would particularly benefit low-income households, who tend to spend a higher share of their income on energy. These low-income households, in turn, have a higher propensity to consume and thus are more likely to spend the additional funds available to them as a result of a lower energy bill.
OPEC faces some formidable obstacles if it is to halt the recent slide in the price of crude oil. There are no signs that the global economy is improving. Thus, weak demand will keep a lid on prices for some time to come. In addition, the cartel already has difficulties enforcing its quotas. Cheating on official production quotas is rampant, and overproduction is estimated to range between 1 and 1.5 million bpd. As further cuts are contemplated, the temptation to cheat only grows as members seek to benefit from higher prices, while at the same time boosting output and market share.>
The failure of agreement leads to this ..Dismal investigates it further..
The failure of OPEC ministers to secure the cooperation of non-OPEC members to restrict crude oil supplies is good news for oil importing countries and raises the question of whether OPEC is losing its edge. The non-member backing of OPEC's production cut is a prerequisite for any reduction in production quotas to be effective in boosting prices. Without such backing, a reduction in OPEC quotas would only reduce the cartel's market share without lending any support to prices.
The meeting of OPEC oil ministers has raised more questions than answers. OPEC has decided to defer any decision regarding a cut in production quotas, as it has failed to win support of key non-OPEC producers, most notably Russia, Norway and Mexico. The cartel will cut output by up to 1.5 million barrels per day (bpd) or roughly 6% starting on January 1, but only if OPEC's main competitors agree to a proportionate cut in output. OPEC expects nonmembers to cut production by a combined 500,000 bpd.
The demands of the cartel have met with resistance by producers outside OPEC, with only Russia offering a token reduction so small it could be construed as an affront against OPEC. Despite intense lobbying by OPEC, no agreement could be reached suggesting that future cooperation is not likely. Oil producers outside of OPEC do not depend as desperately on oil revenues and can live well with crude prices around $20 per barrel.
The absence of any agreement means that energy prices will trend sharply lower. Lower energy prices provide a much-needed economic stimulus for the U.S. economy. With lower energy bills in store, consumers will be able to spend on items other than energy, thus increasing the economy's purchasing power. The end result is that funds that have been traditionally sent overseas to foreign producers resulting from artificially high crude prices will remain in the domestic economy.
Weak global demand will remain the driving force in the oil market and will exert additional persistent downward pressure on crude prices. However, it is now also conceivable that OPEC's failure to secure cooperation by non-OPEC countries could result in a price war. In this scenario, no production cut at all would take place, and the price of crude oil would collapse. Naturally, such a price war would come at the detriment of oil producers both within and outside OPEC. It would be in the interest only of oil-importing countries, but it highlights the pitfalls involved with any inherently unstable cartel arrangement.
Also, the disagreement between OPEC and non-members should not detract attention from the differences within OPEC itself. The cartel has been unable to enforce its own current quotas and cheating has been rampant. Even if yesterday's meeting had yielded a definitive decision to cut official quotas, rampant cheating would mean a substantially smaller reduction of actual output. With rapidly growing spare capacity, the temptation to cheat and to increase market share at a rival's expense will only grow.
All this is exceptionally good news for oil-consuming nations, be it emerging market economies or industrialized nations. OPEC has lost its grip on world oil markets, and the cartel is unable to halt the slide of crude oil prices. OPEC's discipline is eroding quickly, and the cartel has lost its ability to control supplies. The recent failure to win the backing of non-OPEC countries and the continuing overproduction demonstrate clearly that the period that allowed OPEC to increase prices during better economic times earlier this year has quickly come to a close.
Compliance with quotas and discipline are the first casualties of slower demand for crude oil in the face of economic adversity. As a result, oil prices will fall well below $20 per barrel of the North American benchmark West Texas Intermediate. They will likely remain there until demand picks up with economic recovery in the second half of 2002.
Iqbal Latif
Taliban were a myth, their invincibility was a myth, most of the analysts never really thought that their coming and now going would be like a whimper. No guerilla war can be pursued with success unless it is fully supported by the common people. The Taliban are treated as aliens in the whole non-Pushtun belt in Northern Afghanistan and in Herat in the West. They had to leave several cities in a huff because they expected no support from the local people. The rejoicing in the streets of Kabul at the arrival of their opponents would indicate what kind of treatment they should expect if they ever tried to sneak back into the area as guerillas.
They just folded. I had no doubts about this falling of house of cards, we were very fair and now also I don't think that any comparisons on guerrilla wars are true or realistic. On Tuesday the Taliban forces fled Kabul in the darkness of night without firing a single shot, thus abandoning the people of capital to their fate. They had earlier withdrawn from a number of cities including Mazar-i-Sharif, Bamian and Herat without giving battle. All these towns had been won by them after enormous bloodshed. Their withdrawal from 80 percent of the country is being described as a tactical retreat and the Taliban supporters expect them to win back the lost areas through guerrilla war. This is a new myth, which is bound to explode like several others floated earlier. Without external support no amount of freedom fight can succeed, mountain do grow wheat, the surrounding areas are now hostile to Taliban and water is really scarce, they would also need continuous supply of weapons and communication. All this is seriously missing.
Iqbal Latif
Osama head now worth 25mUS$, that is quite a drooling tempting money for alot of big Pushtun Warlords. I ll tell you a small story about how Pushtuns kill for small sums as paltry as $200. The people who kill are called "Ujratis" I would be surprised if warlords dont throw him up even from the deepest of the caves.
The soccer fields were killing fields Snow Shoe, I was listening to one of these interview by Mutawakil the foreign minister for Taleban, and someone asked him on BBC that we gave you the money to build a soccer stadium to play soccer so that the youth of Afghanistan have some outlet and you have turned this soccer ground into a killing field. You know what that guy replied.
He said I am very grateful for the money that the international agency has given us for the soccer stadium but our priorities is a little different, we have a law and order situation on our hand and for us we would be grateful if you gave us some more money to make a proper killing field so that the youth can play in the soccer stadium!
When bigots rule a nation the priorities get mingled up,Afghanistan is a classic example of a nation stuck up in a pre Rennaissance period.
On fall of Kabul, I felt it was like a jail break. A whole nation was freed from the nation, much as anyone would say that Kabulis are Tajiks and Hazaras but still the Pushtun element could be seen dancing on the road.
Which human does not like freedom. Freedom is more important than even the nicest of luxuries in life.I think freedom of Kuwait was in the last decade very important economically but here the freedom from the hand of opressive Taleban was very special.
I think that although nations do forget act of valor to help them to freedom that many in Europe have, history will note this fall of Kabul as a turning point as far as relationship between civilisations go. A huge price has been paid by America but I am fully confident that every person that has fallen, his/her sacrifice will certainly help to make this world a better place.
Iqbal Latif
The post mortem of a disgraceful but a very welcome fall.. While the US was carefully planning military action during the four weeks after 11 September, Mullah Omar pooh poohed what he considered inaction on the part of Washington. The Americans, he claimed, lacked the will to attack his country. This too proved to be fallacious. When the Security Council demanded the surrender of Osama bin Laden and allowed military action against the militia if it failed to comply, the Taliban supporters claimed the UN body will not endorse any US attack on Afghanistan. They were confidant that the Muslim countries would never allow this and China would veto any such move. They were also sure of the Quranic verses that will help them the verse where ‘Ababil will bring stones in their mouth to stave off the enemy.’ According to Quranic God saved verses Mecca from a invasion of’ Abraha’ when thousands of Nightingales carrying small stones in their beaks pulverised the invading army. Now jokes aside, that would Muttawakil told the BBC, when he was asked how do you expect to fight the US forces!! can you imagine this archaic and antiquated thinking that had taken over the Taliban so solidly. The angle of religion that blinded them completely, some on this thread took my exception of analysis where old practices become precursors of major disasters as an attempt by me to trivialize religion or its contribution, some time when I was writing I had some knowledge that I could not share, that did result in osme confusion. .
Azizudin Ahmad highlights it even further, he writes that even when the US finally launched the air attacks, pro-Taliban experts all over the world and for me I will emphasise on Pakistan predicted that these would be ineffective. Those spreading the illusion included two retired Generals and a number of right wing columnists. Totally misreading the US war strategy, they declared that Washington was losing in the face of the Taliban resistance. On November 3, Gen.(Retd) Mirza Aslam Beg observed in an Urdu daily, "The situation on ground indicates that the US has committed a blunder by attacking Afghanistan. It is a miscalculation on its part to believe that the Taliban command and control system would collapse within days of bombardment and then its military units will fan out in search of Osama."
On November 9, writing in an Urdu daily, Gen(Retd) Hamid Gul, another Taliban fan, observed, "The signs of American failure on both political and military front have gradually started to emerge. The latest situation underlines the fact that all the US hypotheses regarding the defeat of the Taliban have turned out to be false". Then he put the rhetorical question, "Why should we be boarding a sinking ship?", meaning thereby the US led coalition. These profound observations came from the ex-ISI Chief just one day before the Taliban were made to beat a hasty retreat from Mazar-i-Sharif.
This brings us to the latest illusion harboured by the Taliban and their supporters, i.e. recapturing the lost territory through guerilla war. Commenting on the subject, Maulana Akram Awan, who is another cleric specializing in military strategy says, "The Taliban are like the People's Liberation Army of China. Gen Mao (sic) did not possess any army as such. Common citizens followed him". (The Urdu daily Pakistan, November 4).
Unfortunately, both Maulana Akram Awan and the Taliban are as ignorant of the principles of guerilla war as of regular warfare.
In a column entitled "Air attacks fail to harm the Taliban", a well-known pro-Taliban columnist writing in the same Urdu daily on 21 October observed "Nobody has an answer to questions like what has the US gained from two weeks of bombardment and how does it propose to proceed now. The Taliban continue to occupy 90 percent of Afghanistan and they possess cards which ensure their victory in the game".
Again, in his column in the same paper entitled "Start of the ground war", he wrote, "Even if the Americans succeed in occupying a city or two ,the Taliban will retreat to the nearby mountains. They will then give hell to the foreign troops". In the present case, the Taliban have made a race for not the mountains in the area but to the South, which is a few hundred miles from Mazar-i-Sharif. And that city is right now surrounded by anti-Taliban Pushtuns ready to take them on. The whole idea of warfare and continuous struggle was so much out of the line.
Iqbal Latif
Ike
Please accept my apology for telling you what to do on your own thread. It was meant with good intention for I see so many of your respectful followers have temporarily deserted posting and I attribute that to your loss of focus on the market.
<<I hope our celebrations of events are not premature but I think that events today may have help subside vastly the huge wave of popularity of Osama on Arab and Islamic street.>>
I think any celebrations would be most premature. It is amazing how quickly we slip into a false sense of security. Replacing the Taleban with another disparate coalition will not solve the problems in Afghanistan or reduce the threat of terror. Another problem has been created ready to hand over to the UN. OBL will find another rat hole to climb into or be replaced by some other fanatic. When I see the scenes of thousands of rabid fanatics almost foaming at the mouth and calling for blood literally minutes after prayer while still in a mosque - there is little cause for celebration.
The Taleban are fairly insignificant and OBL will continue to be the only hope for many of these people so unhappy with there own lot and quick to blame it all on the US and the West.
Regards
John
On fall of Kabul I promised that I would write on markets. So I did, I keep my word with events, as they unfold, important for a disciplined man.
On a lighter note, I also said that since even Gods like me to talk about market it should happen ASAP. Now that we have seen that, I need to keep my word, which is the funny side of me. I will devote now considerable attention to my market activity from next Monday, of course events in my region will not be far off, until O&O issue is resolved.
Collectively all of us here have a great job accomplished, we were like a closely-knit camaraderie that saw through these things very well. Markets and events that impact our life are important issues. We cannot withdraw from any of these things. I am proud to be associated with very qualified people who took time on this thread to keep going. Bubba Fred exceptionally should need a special mention.
Lets pray for a just equitable government for Afghanistan and lets pray that the orphans and widows and limbless young man may find solace within the new system.
The free women of Afghanistan and Kabul today need our special prayers, they suffered the most under the Taleban and they are future of Afghanistan, if one half of humanity is kept under lock and the key is thrown away future generations will have no chance. Give Afghan women the tool to train her family.
Afghan nation in no time will become the leading nation of change, which will also put 'talebinsation' of my country on halt. To halt extremism in Afghanistan would mean halting of extremism in the entire Islamic world. I don't won't to be rude on this very solemn occasion of fall of Kabul, however let me say that you cannot realize what a mourning must have gone through the heartland of the explosive extremists core of Islam when they must have seen people dancing on streets and shaving of their beard. This is a major revolution, Bush picked this gauntlet thrown by Osama, and the ways things are wrapping up now are great. The stakes were high, Osama never expected seeing after Cole and Khobar the lukewarm response of US that the price he would pay would be high that will include this kind of termination of his activities. This required very responsive and very solid conviction. US were lucky to have one at this important juncture. I hope our celebrations of events are not premature but I think that events today may have help subside vastly the huge wave of popularity of Osama on Arab and Islamic street. Kabul fall proved that the Emperor had no clothes.
I wish that UK and US might help Afghanistan grow without interference even from any regional power that may include Pakistan. The Afghanis need a self-governance model and we should have no business other than providing brotherly help if required.
Iqbal Latif
We are already for a single day in a new range breaking 1128. I am very optimistic on global things, the economy is going to shun the negative impacts and move on. As promised after fall of Kabul my 'self imposed purdah' from market is over. That is good news for me. I like VOD after this huge write off for long term. In my opinion 1155 is the next target...Nice for me to be writing about markets before 17th, I wish we have a good career in markets after 11th Sept, our projections were derailed, although we have moved above that 1080 that I expected to hold, however my opinion is that US economy is going to survive this bout of consumer downturn. I will like oil to be down for next 12 months to create the kind of non-inflationary, low interest rate environment that was a hallmark of 1997-1999 move. OPEC help is as important as monetary policy of US, by the way the war against terrorism is not going to cost 100 billion $, rather Russia US new-detente and China new entry to WTO, may rather bring that missing link into play that was somewhat worrying in context of global economy. New Russia as a global partner is far more important than the loss the world made on Osama entry as a global miscreant terrorist. I feel good to write about the markets so soon after this massive crisis.
Iqbal Latif
Condor, just read this, interesting post...my deep gratitude for the poster..I thought that sharing with the thread will be such a good thing for all of us, what a good community we have created here.
Monday, November 12, 2001 3:50 PM ET
To: IQBAL LATIF
From:
Dear Ike.
Reading your posts have brought a calm to my life and a better understanding of your people and the trials and tribulations of their everyday life. You have made me appreciate so much more, the life I have lived since I was born. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for all you have shared with so many of us here in cyberworld.
I sent your post to the President. I do not write that well but expressed what was in my heart the best way I could. May God keep you and your loved safe always.
Subj: A message for President Bush that is important
Date: 11/12/01 2:44:15 PM Central Standard Time
From:
To: president@whitehouse.gov
Dear President Bush
I want to write to thank you for your calm during these horrific times for many of us. I am a ..... two grown adults and your handling of the affairs of our great country make me truly grateful that you were elected, and I did not even vote for you.
There is a site on the internet, called Silicon Investor, and I follow the postings of a man that is level headed and a great countryman in my eyes and he has been writing daily to explain many things that have happened to help me and so many others to understand exactly what is going on with the people of Afganastan and with our USA.
His name is IQBAL LATIF , and we all know of him as IKE.
This is what he posted today which I would be honored if you could read it. (so would he) ;o)
To:BubbaFred who wrote (41572)
From: IQBAL LATIF Monday, Nov 12, 2001 4:22 AM
View Replies (2) / Respond to of 41582
Herat's Ismael Khan holds a lot of cards; let Afghans settle these affairs amongst themselves. I agree with you. The major defections are going to happen soon. The reason the pounding from up above or you may say ‘Allah’ is hard and deafening. I doubt if most of these Taliban will make it to Kabul or Kandahar after rote of Mazar. The bombing is so minutely carried out that the distance become impossible to cover. In face of daisy cutters and carpet-bombing I doubt we can see reinforcements of Kabul. If they want they can get Kabul before 17th. The real fight will be to restore Afghan nation and their children and women to levels of respect and education that we all may take pride. The freedom from shackles of slavery is like opening the doors of Auschwitz, Afghanistan is a mental Auschwitz, although I make no comparison here, but in terms of breaking the will of a nation the nazism can be compared to this extreme form of fanaticism that we witnessed in Afghanistan. The case of rebuilding this nation is strong and very viable. A fund approved by UN and funded by Saudi Oil wealth along with other major players in the region as a punitive damage payment for restoration of Afghanistan is a must. Punitive damages for nations of Osama bin Laden, his company may cough up a cool 100 million $ here. That would be a nice gesture from International group of Bin Laden contributing to the welfare of Afghanistan orphans and widows. I doubt they would do it, but time to call the King Fahd to be ready for 1 million barrel of oil in kind for next 5 years delivered free to Afghanistan. The Afghans can barter it with money. Someone should write it to the President. Saudis owe it big time to the world community for actions of their nations, condemnation alone is great but 'some money to restore' Afghanistan would be equally welcome.
Market Trends and Strategies : IDEA OF THE DAY-Trading in&out for profits.
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk/msg.gsp?msgid=16642610
He is wise, honest, and has brought peace into the lives of many who read his postings. He has given up trading the markets to take the time to keep us all abreast of the many things that have gone on since September 11, 2001.
He has met personally a lot of the people that you are presently dealing with in foreign countries.
Here is the site that shows where IKE writes a column in an "The Iranian" paper with his opinions.
http://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2001/August/Islam/index.html
Perhaps one day there will be an article somewhere in the USA papers that will acknowledge what he has contributed to so many of us in the cyberworld to calm our fears in the real world as it is today.
I sincerely thank you for your time in reading this.
A grateful American and proud one.
Iqbal Latif
Fall of Kabul and fall of O&O in my opinion are so inter-related phenomenon.
Someone will take the price money to deliver him. Fall of Kabul is important now. I have no problems with political ramifications of such a fall; Dostum understands like other warlords that good behaviour will assure them long-term stability. This is a golden chance of Afghanistan and I don’t think factions will like to lose it to
In my opinion I would like Kabul to fall. I think that after Mazar NA can be allowed to go in. May be it would become little difficult to make a broad based government but the purse is in the hands of USA. The presence of USA will now make sure that a broad based government should be formed that may include the Pashtun elements.
That conceded, I will like before 17th the capital city to be occupied and once CNN starts beaming women without scarves, and thousand of man visiting the barber shops to relinquish the heavy burden of ‘forced grown beard’ that will relieve a lot of pressure from the Arab and Islamic streets. Add to it Presidents recent announcement on Palestine state with defined borders, I think that is icing on the cake, if Sharon-Arafat can agree on a deal soon, we can have a party planned for 300 points on NAZ.
No bloodshed in the streets or revenge being taken like Mazar will rather make a god image of US with the Islamic world.
Once Kabul peacefully falls I am sure that Osama bin Laden would be dragged and shot in the head by the Pashtun warlords. Treachery and Deceit and selling of loyalty for a price is not uncommon, the valiant Afghans traditionally and historically like to sell each other short at first moment of opportunity. O&O are main agents of guaranteeing travel back in time for any nation, any nation wanting intellectual backwardness associated with ‘nothing to lose’ situation, O&O in Kabul assure total new pariah state status in no time guaranteed. That is their perverted joint vision of a great nation, which should be in majority composed of fatherless, penniless, lonely and shoeless idle population. His own Arabs are well and save in Saudi Arabia, as he proudly says al his wife’s are Arabs and all his daughters are married to Arabs, his Arab pride not withstanding when it comes to hiding like a coward he uses the poorest nation on earth as his shield.
After fall of Kabul the borders on South and North should be closed, no route out for the remnants of the Brigade 55, and than you will see the serious infighting and a revolt as Kandahar spiritual status will be lost once Afghans realize that with Kabul gone they have nothing to fight for. This is the best forward-looking scenario, I hope for.
<Iqbal, after randomly coming across your posts, I want to express my appreciation for you insights and heartfelt passion. Such posts are what make SI such a wonderfully interesting place to read and communicate. >
Thanks for a very generous comment.I just try to bring some comfort to my US friends. bi
Iqbal Latif
Herat's Ismael Khan holds a lot of cards; let Afghans settle these affairs amongst themselves. I agree with you. The major defections are going to happen soon. The reason the pounding from up above or you may say ‘Allah’ is hard and deafening. I doubt if most of these Taliban will make it to Kabul or Kandahar after rote of Mazar. The bombing is so minutely carried out that the distance become impossible to cover. In face of daisy cutters and carpet-bombing I doubt we can see reinforcements of Kabul. If they want they can get Kabul before 17th. The real fight will be to restore Afghan nation and their children and women to levels of respect and education that we all may take pride. The freedom from shackles of slavery is like opening the doors of Auschwitz, Afghanistan is a mental Auschwitz, although I make no comparison here, but in terms of breaking the will of a nation the nazism can be compared to this extreme form of fanaticism that we witnessed in Afghanistan. The case of rebuilding this nation is strong and very viable. A fund approved by UN and funded by Saudi Oil wealth along with other major players in the region as a punitive damage payment for restoration of Afghanistan is a must. Punitive damages for nations of Osama bin Laden, his company may cough up a cool 100 million $ here. That would be a nice gesture from International group of Bin Laden contributing to the welfare of Afghanistan orphans and widows. I doubt they would do it, but time to call the King Fahd to be ready for 1 million barrel of oil in kind for next 5 years delivered free to Afghanistan. The Afghans can barter it with money. Someone should write it to the President. Saudis owe it big time to the world community for actions of their nations, condemnation alone is great but 'some money to restore' Afghanistan would be equally welcome.
Iqbal Latif
Herat has fallen to Alliance. Ismael Khan according to reports have defected. A major ground victory, although a tactical one, but bombing has worked. The swiftness of the fall is shocking for some analyst, however the bombing has been devastatingly accurate to hit the morale of the Talebin. From 40 targets raising almost to 280 targets, the carpet bombing has worked wonders to bring this campaign to a more conclusive finale with showdown in Kahdhar and Kabul very soon. Taleben are human and they will give up.
Iqbal Latif
In Mazar the first batches of unfortunate human slaves are released from Taliban antiquated system of governance. Women are on streets without veil and man are going to barber shops en masse to shave off their archaic beards. A new dawn in Mazar has begun. Like the fall of communism the fall of extremism is as fast. The root has begun.
Iqbal Latif
Iqbal: Write on, audience are watching, good or bad, they were all one click away.
Waste of time on issue that do not concern me fill my time, look at the timing of the article, who could have said on 28th of Aug that Taliban would be in limelight in next few months the feeling I had was bad. For a person like me john to stay awake for hours and write on these things in itself need a big commitment, I like it to the hilt. I feel that I do my part, it is that entire little romantic revolutionary hidden in all of us. Imagine if all of us go and do that small part of their obligation, 5 billion fulfilments would be so nice to change this to a great-united planet mother earth into heaven. It is that little romantic involvement that people like you did develop some respect that I want you to know I cherish and respect.
Rise and fall
Islamic apathy vs 400 years of forgotten renaissance
By Iqbal Latif, Paris
August 28, 2001
Iqbal Latif
Dear John, I will get back to markets when I think I should, at the moment I don't fell like writing about markets. I have my own doubts as to my ability to what I do best, I don't think I do anything better than anyone else. I just write because I feel that if people like me evade these burning issues we will be unfair to things we believed in, like 'distance is dead' was the premises my good world outlook was based on, the markets that have no borders, the sun never sets on those markets. Since 11th Sept, the configurations of global markets have completely changed.
The distance has reappeared to become a major obstacle, the polarisation of different civilisations, all this needs now to be confronted by we who are extreme optimists, until my inside is not satisfied that 'optimism' should return, until my inside does not tell me that distance is dead, I have my problems with the analysis I make. How can i be cure about oil coming out of Saudi Arabia, if I am not sure what will happen in case Osama followers tear monarchy apart, what will happen if Saudi House of Sauds find different pathways, how instability of Saudi will impact global oil prices. If you look into the problems of Osama and challenges his actions have now opened for any optimist analyst, the market calls have become kind of challenge.
As far as association by guilt charge is concerned, I think may be your analogy is right description, although knowing me I thought you could have been little more generous. I don’t see me carrying any cross on my shoulder. Honestly, that what surprises me john, that for last five years or so people respect me, my one aberration makes them upset and makes them unnecessarily judgmental. I did my markets when I use to be enthused about the world and markets, right now that is not my priority, I never knew I was the best, as I am sure I was not, today as other pre-occupations like the murder of my whole world coming together concept is slaughtered.
My eternal optimism demands within me that I have one cross to carry that is to make the world a better place, open up the eyes of people who see no wrong in their believes and open the eyes of those who think that God has given them a carte blanche to kill. Like foolishly I use to post to my own self about markets releasing very little that people think ‘I am the best,’ with the same old foolish childish streak and stubbornness I continue on with this new pre-occupation.
I hope you will respect my wishes. I could have in those days instead of market directions written about individual stock actions, I remember being told so may times about how wrong I was in my enthusiasm not to be able to appreciate the weakens of the US economy. As you know I traded the darn thing from a long bias and a growth based bias with world coming together.
Just because I was interested in markets and I thought I understood the reason of this Bull Run I was determined to do what I was doing. So some like you liked my pre-occupation with the markets, I agree with you and can see your disappointment about my involvement in politics, if you read my profile, food, politics and cricket are some of my passions too. You need to know how to respect my wishes and you need to let me do without being judgmental on what I want to do, that is my basic right as a human being and you are naturally inclined to stop reading me, I have no problems, until I am happy with myself I will not get involved, I see fall of Kabul soon and I think that will give me some strong urge to stop this foolishly stubborn streak. I also would make a plea, if you would care to read this thread most of my posts are addressed to my own self, it was always a one man show thread, sometime I use to think that this is just me to me, I have no reasons to believe that my views have nay impact far beyond my own mind and confines of my family, some friends join me and that keep the thread more colourful.
I am not very sure now about my interest in markets that will come soon I think, on fall of Kabul. Elimination of these people will help me build a new outlook.
Regards and a plea John to allow me to do what ido the best, ggg
Your little wayward friend..
Iqbal Latif
Ike
I believe you have been swamped by the events of Sep 11. Perhaps you feel you have to prove you are not guilty by association. I have followed your thoughts on SI for a long time and have a great respect for your analysis and forsight in the markets.
Forget the politics and get back to what you do best and I mean the best. This is a market trends and strategies thread and you have let it get off track.
Regards
John
Dear John.. read this one, you may have overlooked this.
Open Letter to Osama bin Laden..The self-inflicted death of intellect in Islam a thousand years ago is the main cause of the retrogressive and unenlightened mullah culture in Muslim societies today.
Your self-selected messiahism is too opportunistic and shallow to become a political movement of a revolutionary sentiment among the dispossessed Muslims of the world. If you are offended at the presence of US troops in Saudi Arabia, let me tell you something: the great majority of us Muslims do not give a damn. Izzat Majeed writing today.....
The vast majority of the Muslims of the world do not care about your proclamations and your antiquated notion of Islam. You helped create the Taliban (some say you actually rule over them). If the sheer barbarism of the Taliban regime is your version of an Islamic society, then you must be a true dreamer to think that any Muslim with half a brain will listen to you. The long lost tribal simplicity and austerity that once characterised the practice of Islam interest no one today. The self-inflicted death of intellect in Islam a thousand years ago is the main cause of the retrogressive and unenlightened mullah culture in Muslim societies today.
Look at what you have done, Osama bin Laden. The carnage in New York, in the full glory of a sunny day and the glare of ever-hungry television, has unleashed forces that are as ambivalent and as conspiratorial as any sea change in the river of history.
Ambivalent because, like you, all that these forces of imperial power understand is that clear and present danger, however concocted, can only be met with the exercise of naked military might. But at the same time, sheer force needs to be tempered with political accommodation on a varied and shifting political and ethnic battlefield.
Conspiratorial, because what you have invited to the region, under the shadow of your terrorism and by now half-forgotten mumbo jubmo of post-war anti-colonialism in the guise of so-called jihad, is today's one and only imperial superpower. ....
The majority of the Afghans want you and your 'foreigners' to leave them alone. By helping create and then lording over the Taliban you have lost any chance of winning the hearts and minds of the long-suffering people of Afghanistan. I am sure every single Afghan woman would love to put you in a burqa and flag you for your medieval and tyrannical version of Islam.
You will leave a legacy of terror which for a moment lit up the hearts of the poor, uneducated and downtrodden Muslims of the world and then vanished in the caves of darkness and despair. You should have stuck to your original petty war against the Saudis and, perhaps, you would have brought some change for the better there. Instead, you brought wretchedness to proud but hungry and abused Afghans, with your empty slogans and your money and showed them a new hell where bombs and chocolates fall from the skies.
We Muslims cannot keep blaming the West for all our ills. We have to first get our own house in order before we can even make any credible struggle possible to rid us of ignorance, living-in-the-past chest thumbing and intolerance of the modern world. Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) on returning from a battle, said: "We return from little jihad (jihad al-asghar) to greater jihad (jihad al-akbar)." True jihad today is not in the hijacking of planes but in the manufacturing of them.
The embarrassment of wretchedness among us is beyond repair. It is not just the poverty, the illiteracy and the absence of any commonly accepted social contract that defines our sense of wretchedness; it is, rather, the increasing awareness among us that we have failed as a civil society by not confronting the historical, social and political demons within us.
The social and political acquiescence to this condition by the vast majority of our people has given rise to cultural paralysis and a totally bogus interpretation of Islam based on self-serving political agendas. Without a reformation in the practice of Islam that makes it move forward and not backward, there is no hope for us Muslims anywhere. We have reduced Islam to the organised hypocrisy of state-sponsored mullahism. For more than a thousand years Islam has stood still because the mullahs, who became de facto clergy instead of genuine scholars, closed the door on ijtehad and no one came forward with a dynamic and evolving application of the message of the Holy Quran.
All that the mullahs tell you today is how to go back a millennium and more. We have not been able to evolve a dynamic practice to bring Islam to the people in the language of their own specific era. Little wonder, therefore, that the bulk of our mullahs are illiterate in any modern or ancient sense of the word. They are simply illiterate. Period. Oxford and Cambridge were the 'madrasas' of Christendom in the 13th century. Look where they are today - among the leading institutions of education in the world. Where are our institutions of learning?
The basis of ignorant mullahism issues from a fundamental debasement of the human being. Ours is an ongoing inquisition that thrives on ignorance and poverty. The pathetic ruling elites of the Muslim world remain trapped in their own abandonment of any knowledge about Islam. You cannot lead all of us to a barbaric social order and call it Islam. Most Muslims live in the dark ages already. The last thing they need is the growing darkness in your caves and the stale intellect that is anti-human and anti-progress.
Go and read the Holy Quran again and again until you see what great dynamism and modernism the Almighty has given us through His Word.
In verse 143 in Sura Al-Bacarah (the Cow), the Almighty says: "And thus have we willed you to be a community of the middle way." It is this God-ordained 'middle way' that we Muslims have lost. And we must find it in harmony with today's and tomorrow's hope for moderation and a better quality of life for us all.
Iqbal Latif
Afghanistan is an Islamic country because it takes the society and women from photo number 2 and three to the photo on the top.
http://www.ciriello.com/46women3.html
The social indicators of children in Afghanistan under Islamic Taleban are among the worst in the world - for example, United Nations figures show that a quarter of all children born in Afghanistan will die before they reach their fifth birthday.
Very sad. If he care at all about these people, he would use his billions to build and strong, healthy and tolerant society there.
Sara
How do yuo explain this..
MOHAMMAD Junaid's mother was led to safety from the blazing World Trade Centre by New York's brave firefighters and policemen.
But 26-year-old Junaid's thank you has shocked New York.
In return for saving his mum's life, the Islamic-American has turned traitor and bought a one-way ticket to Pakistan to sign up for the Taliban and kill Americans.
Junaid left on what could be a suicide mission one week after his mother – an office worker on the ninth floor of the north tower – was among the survivors.
About 4500 others were not so lucky, and lost their lives in the terror strikes on September 11.
"My mother was in the north tower of the World Trade Centre but I still feel absolutely no remorse about what happened on September 11," Junaid said.
"I saw the towers collapse but felt nothing for the Americans inside. I may hold an American passport, but I am not an American – I am a Muslim."
Junaid offered his own personal jihad against his own country when in Islamabad, Pakistan, as he waited to cross the border into Afghanistan to join the Taliban.
"I did not feel any remorse for the Americans who died," Junaid told Britain's ITN television network.
"I'm willing to kill the Americans. I will kill every American that I see in Afghanistan. And I'll kill every American soldier that I see in Pakistan."
Junaid's parents migrated from Pakistan.
Iqbal Latif
I think you missed this post of mine..
http://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2001/August/Islam/index.html
Iqbal Latif
<The only Bull I am seeing is this assessment>
Last time you wrote this on my post, I thought you were economical with words here, now please look at that 'bull', you will find them quite appropriate today..
He will be caught soon, no hiding place, yes without him it is difficult world as confidence will not be restored. Bush is trying to underplay his success, you will see good progress soon may be in one month by 17th Nov the 'Taliban' will be out,. Some other queries and my answers, and you take care.. Don’t worry the bull will live but bull needs some circumstances those are presently little hurt..
<oil shipping lanes are threatened and disrupted
(slam dunk eventually, with barrel prices jumping, and world economic recovery thwarted)
With Qaboos of Oman on one side of the Gulf and now Pakistani port of PASNI and Gawadar on the other controlled by US forces with four battle carrier groups in the region, no one -ucks around. Iran takes due notice..
<Egypt's Mubarek and Jordan's Abdullah are toppled
WORST CASE WOULD BE ASSASSINATION OF PAKISTAN'S MUSHAREEF
(slam dunk eventually, with Islamic Fundies rising, regional instability worsening, assassination would be trigger to Paki Civil War)>
Egypt's Mubarek on scale of 1-10 the chances are 6, Jamma'ul Ismlamia is the main concern for me, two regions are intellectual bed rocks one is the Egyptian Syed Qutb party, other is South West of Saudi Arabia, the region from most of these 11 Saudis came. The biggest risk is not Abdullah in Jordan he is well entrenched and liked and protected by Jordanians, Black September 1970's was one occasion where Hashimiites could have been over thrown once that danger was out again with the help of Pakistani pilots who beat the hell out Palestinians in Amman, Air Commodore Khaqan Abbassi and Brig Ziaul Haq did the job for King Hussien where he never forgot them neither Arafat forgave the Pakistanis for saving the Hashimiites. No threat to Abdullah who is now protected by Israelites and liked by Palestinians for her wife is a Palestinian refugee born in Kuwait. he has no problems with anyone in the region, no threat on that account. On scale of 1-10 your Egypt and Jordan are respectively lopsided scenario one is 6 other King Abdullah one is 2..Anyway Egypt and Abdullah are both fully hedged in this crisis so is Oman’s Qaboos, so lets not worry too much on that account.
Coming to longest neck and sticking out and tended as well and the biggest -alls in the region is PAKISTAN'S MUSHAREEF-WORST CASE is again nothing big, no major crisis will emerge, ZiaulHaq disappeared in thin air with no impact on command as Baig took over. You may not know this that our sub-continent was ruled by British with less than 15,000 English civil servants, much as any one may fictionalise and believe in these stories around of implosions and disturbances the fact is the Command and control so far luckily is one great fortune for goods and bad we will not have the civil war, our coups has been far too many but no loss of life loss of democracy of course but once our democracy dies our liberty is restored as the ‘dictators’ are more conscious of democratic values than the so called elected democrats. His Vice Chief Yusuf called as Joe, equally pragmatic AND FORWARD LOOKING OFFICER, I SEE ON SCALE OF 1-10 NO chance of such destabilisation, I would consider that on scale of 1-10 the worst scenario is probably a 2.5. The Corp Commanders now are all very positive and forward looking guys and exactly knows where their interest lies, anyway they know it well that they have a good chance to show to the world that they have ditched the dirty baggage of Taliban so has US their long term ally who made wear this at first place and now once they have gotten rid they will probably go all the way.
<bio-attack causing real deaths with bigger numbers
bio-attack causing real deaths with bigger numbers
(real big variable now, was anthrax a test?)>
I think more Americans will fear these attacks more the terrorist will be heartened to continue, much as I feel the urgency and acute nature of fear they transpire I have my doubts about viability of these attacks, this only represent a further last ditch attempt to black mail America and try to get them to negotiate with the perpetrators of this crime. I feel that anyone who had read ‘Executive Action’ had a plot of what is happening now, this is a typical plagiarised sick version of a sick novel and will fail, the mankind ability to face and recuperate is far greater than the cowardice of backstabbing.
<BinLaden bombing Moslem mosques, blaming the USA
(his frustration with cooperating Arab/Moslem nations is growing with probably desperation, will he soon turn his sights to Saudi Arabia?)>
The Grand Mosque was attacked by one his fellow province member read my posts where I explain the politics of that grand mosque invasion in times of King Khalid, this is not a workable ploy they were killed with anti aircraft fire by the Saudis in the Grand Mosque, you are right on one count unfortunately the invasion of Grand Mosque by his province fanatical clan was blamed on US, it was an attack to throw out Al-Sauds but Us got the blame from the Muslim world the fool it is they now are following some one who has betrayed the sanctity of the grand Mosque but such is dastard sense of understanding of most of these fanatical and Muslims who fail to connect with justice and equity. On scale of 1-10 if the previous act in 1969 would have not been committed this could be a possibility but now none, the Saudi protect the Holy sites with a brigade from Prince Abdullah national Guards. Interesting thing to note is that Saddam AND Osama are both perverted version of Islamic thought one became a Muslim after invading Kuwait otherwise he was a known secularist and the other is from perverted sect of Wahabism who may represent and constitute a lot of voice but self defeating as the very concept is a-human and will wither, come what it may be.. These things don’t last , ,where they last nations wither like Somalia like Sudan like Afghanistan or if Pakistan would follow this path would meet the same fate..
South West of Saudi is the trouble spot, but Saudi hedging of positions has removed or capped that threat for some time, Osama is a bigot and bigots are cheap as such cheap things can be expected but his ability to move has been curtailed, he cannot talk he cannot step out and the entire hornets nest ability to communicate has turned them into a richest booty of terrorist assembled in one place, thousands of them for that last devilish stand, they will be wiped clean or they will surrender like Iraqis did in thousands..
Most probably I think he will surrender he will not like to die, he likes to live and he likes his life and woman, all this suicide and all this acts of cowardice are for other people children his own self he will be surrendering so that he can become the Sunni Ayatollah, Osama alive will be a bigger problem than dead so he will be soon dead although he will be coward to surrender but someone will put bullet in his head..
Iqbal Latif
Iqbal Latif
Allow us to nail the edict of reformation on the forehead of our nation Mr John Mckay. On.....
< Mr Latif,
I find your constant attacks on islamic people an affront. Why are you so against muslims. Just because most of them outside the US are stupid and uneducated that is no reason to keep picking on them. I thought this was an trading thread not a political witchhunt forum.
Stop equating terrorism with Islam. Islamic people want peace the same as we do.
No wonder everyone has deserted this thread.
Regards
John>
How would you feel if someone calls and incite people of your nation to overthrow your government? Osama AND Omar the pedigree of people I handle are too hot to handle, if in your opinion Saddam, who gassed is own people or Assad who killed thousands in Hama or Suharto who swept the slate clean in East TIMOR should be saved from criticism in name of true Islamists who are mostly peaceful, than my path is different from yours.
How many times you have seen this condemnation of mass murders on Al Jazeera or any Islamic newspapers? Why should you let us be cursed in this manner, by you walking away saying that most of Islamists are peaceful actually you are helping the cause of fanatics. What most Muslims will say:
"Islam would never support the killing of innocent people. Allah of the Holy Qur'an never advocated killings. This is all the work of a few misguided individuals at the fringes of society. The real Islam is sanctified from violence. We denounce all violence. Islam means peace. Islam means tolerance."
What knowledgeable Muslims should say:
That is what most Muslims think, but is it true? Does Islam really preach peace, tolerance and non-violence? The Muslims who perpetrate these crimes think differently. They believe that what they do is Jihad (holy war). They say that killing unbelievers is mandatory for every Muslim. They do not kill because they wish to break the laws of Islam but because they think this is what true Muslims should do. Those who blow-up their own bodies to kill more innocent people do so because they think they will be rewarded in Paradise. Lack of will to confront facts and hiding the ugly faces of our society in fear of inciting the war of civilisation have brought us to this critical crossroad, where the very stability of our country is at stake. Do you know what is it like to see 5 million refuges as a result of Islamic infighting in Refuges cams around Peshawar?
The Qur'an tells us: "not to make friendship with Jews and Christians" (5:51), "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (2:191), "murder them and treat them harshly" (9:123), "fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (9:5). The Qur'an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises "If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them" (8:65).
Allah and his messenger want us to fight the Christians and the Jews "until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (9:29). Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (9:3). Our God tells us to "fight the unbelievers" and "He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them" (9:14).
Do you know what it likes to walk without shoes in below zero degree? How a woman feels once she is tied up to that shuttlecock type of veil? The Kurds live in absolutely hopeless conditions, persecuted by Turks and Iraqis. The Armenians were practically decimated by the Turks, the Bangladeshis given the real treatment of torture by my fellow countryman. In a blatant attempt all these subjects are taboos for our society to discuss, it is always a perpetual battle to eliminate evil and install pure values. Some liberals want to look away, yes it is too hot to handle, but without confronting, without questioning and without deliberating or bringing up to surface are we going to move an inch? Are you asking me to walk away from a subject that has risk of my life as I offend some?
No, I don’t offend anyone, I offend my own nation and I need to tell them, wake up call, lets put our act together, and lets try to start a new war against our wretched mind boggling poverty. Unfortunately our poverty is rooted in our ideological intolerant positions, we buy misery and pain as we are taught that pain and misery is virtue and we shall be rewarded in the next world.
The worst impact of the ideological divide where rich Islamic nations have tortured any ray of enlightenment within their own confines and have refused to look at the poor ones as being part of Ajam- non Arabs not worthy of attention have left 800 million people future at stake, they are fooled by O&O type of reformers who ask them to over throw their government and install new puritan dictatorships who may start this new extreme terror of running planes in to cities. This is unique threat and this needs to be talked about. You say majority is good, are you aware of the fact that even the educated class knowing well that Osama represents bigotry support Osama in Middle East. The street supports Osama, now Osama enters a new lexicon that of Palestine in his interview, where were these poor Palestinians when he was calling for overthrow of Saudi government, you can be so simple as to get this as kind of freedom struggle, he is playing with the tinder, he has now declared Jihad of Kashmir as his problem and Palestinian as his issue an even Chechnya, now with this broad brush he wants to win over the entire world Muslims, and you say that most of them are peaceful, yes they may be peaceful but everyone is peaceful until a chance comes by him, I want to educate them of pitfalls. When the chance come by they should not be foolish enough to say yes, say big no to these terrorists, we have a war on hand, and we little people have a responsibility on our hand to educate and break taboos.
John, Are you aware of the fact that support for this Terrorists Inc runs huge as people on streets think of them as reformists that would lead them to houries as promised in Quran? The overwhelming support of street was the reason that Saudi backed out from open support of the attacks. The most troubling aspect is the fatality part of this whole equation, everything is in credit here, no rewards here but next world entering as a ‘shaheed’ or martyr is the biggest reward, that kind of reward Mr Mckay puts a spin to the basic social contract humanity has with each other to live and let live. I am completely perplexed by the fact that how can ultra rich Saudis and Gulf citizens who were saved from pangs of Saddam horror can support the icons of terror, it is this strange logic that encourages me to write more nonsensical things that befriend neither a Muslim nor a Christian.
It was a trading activity thread, since 11th Sept the biggest attack on economic life line of the world has been made, if you have cared to read his interview today he says his attack were to bring down the symbols of capitalism and strength of US, for some economic activity and global political problems may not be inter-related, in my opinion the future of our economic activity depends on the ability to win this war waged against mankind by evil. This kind of threat that has to be rooted from the bud.
Terror Inc. is biggest threat not only to freedom but to economic future of the world, the short sightedness displayed by some to think trading markets in face of this unique kind of threat that has no similarities of the past may keep DOW up here is very wishful. In face of Nazism or in face of major annihilation, prosperity and confidence is the biggest victim. War ravaged economies do not have stock markets in 5 figures, the interrelatedness of the markets to security, preparedness and ability to respond will determine the future course of our societies as far as growth factor is concerned. Horses for courses, right now the biggest market challenge is to stop the terror cycle and bring the confidence back and revive the spirit of collegiality amongst comity of nations. The economy is servant of good governance, respect of life and lust of living, all these components go haywire in a screwed up model that most of these puritans are prescribing.
The reason I bring these very important issues is to shake the conscience of the Islamic world. Muslim’s should stand up and talk, they need to stop this ambivalent approach; the question of ‘moral equivalence’ is very valid here in your post. Most of the Islamic nations are peace loving but not courageous to condemn this terror-infested mentality. I am against this thinking in the Islamic world that ‘west’ is responsible for all the evils; I think that Islamic world should grow up and take its responsibility. It is also a theological question, are the laws good 1400 years ago valid today, can the world live with those kind of thinking, until we don’t have open debate on these issues, the dormant nature of our actions that we think that ‘all is well’ breeds the kind of things that destroy and shatter confidence overnight. We use to talk of integrated, globalised world, in minutes we were in middle of civilisation clashes, the Islamic world fails to see what US has done in Bosnia to save Muslims and in Kosovo too.
They talk of Chechnya which is again a nation infested with bandits and banditry that has been way of life for centuries and has nothing to do with US, rather US has been forcing Russia to keep an easy hand on them. Why did US bomb Yugoslavia for months? No one wants to talk about that. They talk of Palestine; the Palestinian issue is just one stop convenience for every Islamic fundamentalist. Saddam who represents secularism changed his standard to standard of prophet by inscribing Allah-o-Akbar on it soon after invasion of oil rich sisterly Kuwait. Osama who has long scores to settle with his own people and kingdom of Saudi Arabia is no now calling for a worldly uprising; this is in his opinion a modern age crusade. Assad, Saddam, Osama are symbols of tyranny who happen to hijack gullible Islamic nation at all important junctures, they could have done it to my nation Pakistan also, I think I know the sensitiveness and I am completely aware of my responsibility as a poster, not to hate anyone but my responsibility as human being to shake the conscience is above all the most important thing. I my have offended your pacifist feeling and love for Islam but I assume you that I know that the present course of Islamic thinking is not the right course for mankind, we need to change our direction of thinking, we need to find the enemy within ourselves, we need to go back to education, pluralism, tolerance and farsightedness, without that we are doomed, do you know that 76% of the 1 billion plus Islamic world thinks that on that fateful day of 11th of Sept, no Jew was present in WTC. Now with this kind of background I don’t know where are your peaceful Islamists. I am writing on many forums, if you want I will pass you the links and all these forums predominantly pro-Osama, with my lone voice as minority, never I have been told that why do I write what I write!
Mr Mckay, note one thing, I live in Islamabad, I feel this as my human responsibility, and I have my driver from Malakand ( where 1500 people have travelled to fight this Jihad) and my servants from village near ‘Akora Khattak’ this is the place where that school where Mullah Omar studied is situated. I will be killed like a rat one day but I want my kids to know that their father stood the ground, one day these posts will be great posts for my kids, I don’t wont to bring them up as cowards!! My dancing and my nightlife will come to an end, but I rarely even think about the consequences, humanity and its survivals are far bigger goals Mr. Mckay..
Every day, when I find time when I am there, most often than not I talk with same style and vigour with those people, I have some solid points to make, they get convinced, you as an American think that I am offending Muslims, that is little difficult for me to comprehend. O&O want to incite a bloody revolution in my country in name of ‘anti-western Islamic puritanical agenda’ if we in minority does not bring facts on surface our gullible nation will be swept by these professional criminals, by bringing the contradictions and issues that have confronted our nation so far, in open, we try to create openness where if someone can convince me I will be part of that culture or I will convince someone on my way of thinking, this is a very healthy exchange and I don’ see any need any kind of appeasement required for people who have nothing but significant determination that ‘Islam’ wins even when they lose. Remember the Iraqis calling the mother of all victories, when actually 60,000 Iraqi soldiers laid arms within 48 hours of ground action? We as nation of Islam have to answer the misdeed we have conducted towards our won brethren, we need to hold those people accountable and this is our renaissance, don’t stop us form that, you had ours 500 years earlier, we are small Luther’s, let us live. Allow us to nail the edict of reformation on the forehead of our nation.
I have an open personality, and a name and I don’t throw stones from an anonymous house or hidden in the cave, I am a small pawn very much possible to be eliminated, when I take this chance I take it because if everyone thinks the way you are thinking that no problems exist, than we are doomed, this ideological narcissism is dangerous.
This is the real Islam. Please go ahead be my guest.
What most Muslims will say:
"Islam would never support the killing of innocent people. Allah of the Holy Qur'an never advocated killings. This is all the work of a few misguided individuals at the fringes of society. The real Islam is sanctified from violence. We denounce all violence. Islam means peace. Islam means tolerance."
What knowledgeable Muslims should say:
That is what most Muslims think, but is it true? Does Islam really preach peace, tolerance and non-violence? The Muslims who perpetrate these crimes think differently. They believe that what they do is Jihad (holy war). They say that killing unbelievers is mandatory for every Muslim. They do not kill because they wish to break the laws of Islam but because they think this is what true Muslims should do. Those who blow-up their own bodies to kill more innocent people do so because they think they will be rewarded in Paradise. They hope to be blessed by Allah, eat celestial food, drink pure wine and enjoy the company of divine consorts. Are they completely misguided? Where did they get this distorted idea? How did they come to believe that killing innocent people pleases God? Or is it that we are misguided? Does really Islam preach violence? Does it call upon its believers to kill non-believers? We denounce those who commit acts of violence and call them extremists. But are they really extremists or are they following what the holy book, the Qur'an tells them to do? What does the Qur'an teach? Have we read the Qur'an? Do we know what kind of teachings are there? Let us go through some of them and take a closer look at what Allah says.
What the Qur'an Teaches Us:
We have used the most widely available English text of the Qur'an and readers are welcome to verify our quotes from the holy book. Please have an open mind and read through these verses again and again. The following quotes are taken from the most trusted Yusufali's translation of the Qur'an.
The Qur'an takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and relegates those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). It says that the "non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water" (14:17). It asks the Muslims to "slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter" (5:34). And tells us that "for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods" (22:19-22) and that they not only will have "disgrace in this life, but on the Day of Judgment He shall make them taste the Penalty of burning (Fire)" (22:9). The Qur'an says that "those who invoke a god other than Allah not only should meet punishment in this world but the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in ignominy" (25:68). For those who "believe not in Allah and His Messenger, He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!" (48:13). Although we are asked to be compassionate amongst each other, we have to be "harsh with unbelievers", our Christian, Jewish and Atheist neighbours and colleagues (48:29). As for him who does not believe in Islam, the Prophet announces with a "stern command": "Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (69:30-37) The Qur'an prohibits a Muslim from befriending a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (9:23), (3:28). Our holy book asks us to be disobedient towards the disbelievers and their governments and strive against the unbelievers with great endeavour" (25:52) and be stern with them because they belong to Hell (66:9). The holy Prophet prescribes fighting for us and tells us that "it is good for us even if we dislike it" (2:216). Then he advises us to "strike off the heads of the disbelievers"; and after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" (47:4). Our God has promised to "instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers" and has ordered us to "smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them" (8:12). He also assures us that when we kill in his name "it is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself" (8:17). He orders us "to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies" (8:60). He has made the Jihad mandatory and warns us that "Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (9:39). Allah speaks to our Holy Prophet and says "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed" (9:73).
He promises us that in the fight for His cause whether we slay or are slain we return to the garden of Paradise (9:111). In Paradise he will "wed us with Houris (celestial virgins) pure beautiful ones" (56:54), and unite us with large-eyed beautiful ones while we recline on our thrones set in lines (56:20). There we are promised to eat and drink pleasantly for what we did (56:19). He also promises "boys like hidden pearls" (56:24) and "youth never altering in age like scattered pearls" (for those who have paedophiliac inclinations) (76:19). As you see, Allah has promised all sorts or rewards, gluttony and unlimited sex to Muslim men who kill unbelievers in his name. We will be admitted to Paradise where we shall find "goodly things, beautiful ones, pure ones confined to the pavilions that man has not touched them before nor jinni" (56:67-71).
In the West we enjoy freedom of belief but we are not supposed to give such freedom to anyone else because it is written "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good) (3:85). And He orders us to fight them on until there is no more tumult and faith in Allah is practiced everywhere (8:39).
As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (4:34). It advises to "take a green branch and beat your wife", because a green branch is more flexible and hurts more. (38:44). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (2:228). It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance (4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the courts of law (2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Our Holy Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many 'captive' women as we may have (4:3) even if those women are already married. He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women. Dear fellow Muslims:
Is this the Islam you believe in? Is this your Most Merciful, Most Compassionate Allah whom you worship daily? Could Allah incite you to kill other peoples? Please understand that there is no terrorist gene - but there could be a terrorist mindset.
Iqbal Latif
HM: If America got out of Saudi Arabia and the Al-Aqsa mosque was liberated, would you then present yourself for trial in some Muslim country ?
OSB: Only Afghanistan is an Islamic country. Pakistan follows the English law. I don't consider Saudi Arabia an Islamic country. If the Americans have charges against me, we too have a charge sheet against them.>
Afghanistan is an Islamic country because it takes the society and women from photo number 2 and three to the photo on the top.
http://www.ciriello.com/46women3.html
HE LIKES Afghanistan also because they make sure those Afghan children and their families who have been suffering from 23 years of war, which has displaced millions of families and created an estimated 800,000 war widows should continue to suffer. He likes to shelter himself amongst the children and women that is his definition of a great society. When thinking becomes so degenerative, answers are few.
The social indicators of children in Afghanistan under Islamic Taleban are among the worst in the world - for example, United Nations figures show that a quarter of all children born in Afghanistan will die before they reach their fifth birthday.
This is the vision of the great Islamic society of Osama.
Iqbal Latif
He would have liked another poor nation like Pakistan to become a mass producer of orphans, widows and misguided intolerant psychopaths.
OSB: The government of Pakistan should have the wishes of the people in view. It should not have surrendered to the unjustified demands of America. America does not have solid proof against us. It just has some surmises. It is unjust to start bombing on the basis of those surmises.
HM: Had America decided to attack Pakistan with the help of India and Israel, what would have we done ?
OSB: What has America achieved by attacking Afghanistan ? We will not leave the Pakistani people and the Pakistani territory at anybody's mercy.
We will defend Pakistan. But we have been disappointed by Gen Pervez Musharraf. He says that the majority is with him. I say the majority is against him.
Bush has used the word crusade. This is a crusade declared by Bush. It is no wisdom to barter off blood of Afghan brethren to improve Pakistan's economy. He will be punished by the Pakistani people and Allah.
Right now a great war of Islamic history is being fought in Afghanistan. All the big powers are united against Muslims. It is ' sawab ' to participate in this war.>
As if hell point Afghanistan is not big enough a hell he has single headedly created and master minded with another fool Mullah Omar. How this crazy mumbo-jumbo would have saved Pakistan from his underground cowardly cave is beyond me. He says US has done no harm to Afghanistan. The economy of that nation whatever was left of it until the war started is now in the ground. The nation is practically bankrupt, the nation that had 800 $ / capita incomes has now been reduced to a nation of rubble. The chief economic activity is to collect and sell junk; even ‘residual bomb junk’ is very much in demand. Rubbish and garbage collection in search of food is widespread; most of the children and women collect rubbish for finding some morsels of food. This is the vision of a true Islamic state of Osama. Today Afghan nation with no GDP and 40$/capita income lowest in the world, that has what puritan Islam has bequeathed for Afghanistan and that is why I tell all those people who like to support them to take ‘one way ticket’ to hell hole.
In his interview Osama says he would have saved and defended Pakistan from his cave, like he has saved Afghan nation by mercilessly putting the poor people of that nation as human shield for his own safety. . As bombs would have fallen on our cities in Pakistan, taking out our communications, our energy and our dams including our strategic assets, that would have given him new satisfaction. A new pariah state would have emerged, if in desperation any crazy crook would have used the A- bomb, that would given him ultimate victory of a war that would have consumed few millions and set back the Islamic world by a few hundred years back to cave age. Not that it would have mattered.
O&O are main agents of guaranteeing travel back in time for any nation, any nation wanting intellectual backwardness associated with ‘nothing to lose’ situation, O&O in Kabul assure total new pariah state status in no time guaranteed. That is their perverted joint vision of a great nation, which should be in majority composed of fatherless, penniless, lonely and shoeless idle population. His own Arabs are well and save in Saudi Arabia, as he proudly says al his wife’s are Arabs and all his daughters are married to Arabs, his Arab pride not withstanding when it comes to hiding like a coward he uses the poorest nation on earth as his shield.
I hope this vermin chooses to fights his proxy battle against the Kings of Saudi in his own land instead of the land of the poorest people, using them as shield and canon fodder is evil. It is premeditated and deliberate attempt to blackmail nations, now his only way out is to export this war to the entire easy to fleece Islamic world, I hope these people read him well. This evil needs no mercy.
Iqbal Latif
Mr Latif,
I find your constant attacks on islamic people an affront. Why are you so against muslims. Just because most of them outside the US are stupid and uneducated that is no reason to keep picking on them. I thought this was an trading thread not a political witchhunt forum.
Stop equating terrorism with Islam. Islamic people want peace the same as we do.
No wonder everyone has deserted this thread.
Regards
John
The Muslims need to answer these crimes of one of the largest gendercidal massacres of modern times. It was not Jews, Christians or anyone else; it was your own leaders mercilessly wasting their own people. "Final solution" to the Kurdish problem undertaken within months of al-Majid's arrival in his post. It would be known as "al-Anfal" ("The Spoils"), a reference to the eighth sura of the Qur'an, which details revelations that the Prophet Muhammad received after the first great victory of Islamic forces in A.D. 624. "I shall cast into the unbelievers' hearts terror," reads one of the verses; "so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them ... the chastisement of the Fire is for the unbelievers." Anfal, officially conducted between February 23 and September 6, 1988, Send these mails to Al Jazeera, let them run few programmes on htis too. Let them shame their own people in the people.
It was war against own populace. Those who talk of rights were quiet. Why? Why these Ulema were not standing up to protect their own brethren from ass annihilation form the hands of their own leaders?
Martin van Bruinessen writesAnswer these crimes agaisnt their own people...Genocide against women,the elderly, and children.
It was these displaced populations of Barzani tribespeople who, after the onset of the Iran-Iraq war in 1980, would fall prey to one of the largest gendercidal massacres of modern times. Martin van Bruinessen writes:
In [July-]August 1983, Iraqi security troops rounded up the men of the Barzani tribe from four resettlement camps near Arbil. These people were not engaged in any antigovernment activities. ... Two of Barzani's sons at that time led the Kurdistan Democratic Party and were engaged in guerrilla activities against the Baghdad government, but only a part of the tribe was with them. ... All eight thousand men of this group, then, were taken from their families and transported to southern Iraq. Thereafter they disappeared. All efforts to find out what happened to them or where they had gone, including diplomatic inquiries by several European countries, failed. It is feared that they are dead. The KDP [Kurdish Democratic Party] has received consistent reports from sources within the military that at least part of this group has been used as guinea pigs to test the effects of various chemical agents. (van Bruinessen, "Genocide in Kurdistan?," in George J. Andreopoulos, ed., Genocide: Conceptual and Historical Dimensions ([University of Pennsylvania Press, 1994], pp. 156-57, emphasis added.)
One Barzani woman described the roundup of the menfolk: "Before dawn, as people were getting dressed and ready to go to work, all the soldiers charged through the camp [Qushtapa]. They captured the men walking on the street and even took an old man who was mentally deranged and was usually left tied up. They took the preacher who went to the mosque to call for prayers. They were breaking down doors and entering the houses searching for our men. They looked inside the chicken coops, water tanks, refrigerators, everywhere, and took all the men over the age of thirteen. The women cried and clutched the Qur'an [Koran] and begged the soldiers not to take their men away." In 1993, Saddam Hussein strongly hinted at the final fate of the Barzani men: "They betrayed the country and they betrayed the covenant, and we meted out a stern punishment to them, and they went to hell." As Human Rights Watch noted, "In many respects, the 1983 Barzani operation foreshadowed the techniques that would be used on a much larger scale during the Anfal campaign." (Human Rights Watch, Iraq's Crime of Genocide, pp. 4, 26-27.) Khaled Salih notes that "No doubt, the absence of any international outcry encouraged Baghdad to believe that it could get away with an even larger operation without any hostile reaction. In this respect the Ba'ath Party seems to have been correct in its calculations and judgement of the international inaction." (Khaled, "Anfal: The Kurdish Genocide in Iraq"; see also "Who was responsible?," below.)
Aftermath of Iraqi chemical attack on Halabji, March 1988.
Among the most horrific features of the Iraqi campaigns against the Kurds in the 1980s was the regime's resort to chemical weapons strikes against civilian populations. On April 16, 1987, a chemical raid on the Balisan valley killed dozens of civilians; in its wake, "some seventy men were taken away in buses and, like the Barzanis, never seen again. The surviving women and children were dumped on the plain outside Erbil and left to fend for themselves." (Jonathan C. Randal, After Such Knowledge, What Forgiveness?, p. 230.) Less than a year later, on March 16, 1988, a far more concentrated chemical attack was launched on the town of Halabji, near the Iranian border, which had briefly been held by a combined force of Kurdish rebels and Iranian troops. Thousands of civilians died, and with the town still under Iranian occupation after the raid, journalists and photographers were able to reach the scene. "Their photographs, mainly of women, children, and elderly people huddled inertly in the streets or lying on their backs with mouths agape, circulated widely, demonstrating eloquently that the great mass of the dead had been Kurdish civilian noncombatants." (Iraq's Crime of Genocide, p. 72.) Although it took place during the Anfal campaign, however, the attack on Halabji is not normally considered part of that campaign.
The gendercide
In March 1987, Saddam Hussein's cousin from his hometown of Tikrit, Ali Hassan al-Majid, was appointed secretary-general of the Ba'ath Party's Northern Region, which included Iraqi Kurdistan. Under al-Majid, who "even by the standards of the Ba'ath security apparatus ... had a particular reputation for brutality," control of policies against the Kurdish insurgents passed from the Iraqi army to the Ba'ath Party itself. This was the prelude to the intended "final solution" to the Kurdish problem undertaken within months of al-Majid's arrival in his post. It would be known as "al-Anfal" ("The Spoils"), a reference to the eighth sura of the Qur'an, which details revelations that the Prophet Muhammad received after the first great victory of Islamic forces in A.D. 624. "I shall cast into the unbelievers' hearts terror," reads one of the verses; "so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them ... the chastisement of the Fire is for the unbelievers." Anfal, officially conducted between February 23 and September 6, 1988, would have eight stages altogether, seven of them targeting areas controlled by the PUK. For these assaults, the Iraqis mustered up to 200,000 soldiers with air support -- matched against Kurdish guerrilla forces that numbered no more than a few thousand.
On June 20, 1987, a crucial directive for the Anfal campaign, SF/4008, was issued under al-Majid's signature. Of greatest significance is clause 5. Referring to those areas designated "prohibited zones," al-Majid ordered that "all persons captured in those villages shall be detained and interrogated by the security services and those between the ages of 15 and 70 shall be executed after any useful information has been obtained from them, of which we should be duly notified." However, it seems clear from the application of this policy that "those between the ages of 15 and 70" meant "those males" in the designated age range. HRW/ME, for example, takes this as given, writing that clause 5's "order [was] to kill all adult males," and later: "Under the terms of al-Majid's June 1987 directives, death was the automatic penalty for any male of an age to bear arms who was found in an Anfal area." (Iraq's Crime of Genocide, pp. 11, 14.) A subsequent directive on September 6, 1987, supports this conclusion: it calls for "the deportation of ... families to the areas where there saboteur relatives are ..., except for the male [members], between the ages of 12 inclusive and 50 inclusive, who must be detained." (Cited in Iraq's Crime of Genocide, p. 298.)
Iqbal Latif
The evil the men do! Bashar humiliation accorded to Blair..See who is talking of bombing of innocents, no one has bombed indiscriminately their own citizens than these very people? When they talk of bombing they should be shown the clippings of Hama murders...Al Jazeera can be sent those stories, the murder of muslims by its dictators and their own strong man..
<The Syrian President, standing just a few feet away from him, was warming to his task. He condemned the bombing of Afghanistan, which was causing “thousands” of civilian casualties.
Palestinian “freedom fighters” were not terrorists, he said, they were like the French resistance under Charles de Gaulle. It was Israel, not Syria, that was “prosecuting state terrorism”. >
Starting on February 2, 1982 and lasting 27 days, President Asad ordered the shelling of Hama, one of Syria's major cities some 150 miles north of Damascus. According to the Syrian Human Rights Committee that operates outside of Syria a third of the city was completely destroyed. Some 30,000 to 40,000 civilians were killed. Another 15,000 were never accounted for. Why?
Only a few months earlier on October 6, 1981, members of the Muslim Brotherhood had assassinated Egyptian president Anwar Sadat. The Brotherhood had been founded during the 1930's in Egypt by Hassan Al-Banna. He allegedly was killed on orders of Egypt's General Gamal Abdul-Nasser. Sadat too was a general and so was Asad. The destroyed district of Hama had become a major center of the Brotherhood in Syria. Clearly Asad struck massively and brutally to prevent the same from happening to him. The present President uncle Rifa'at was the chief enforcer of the Hama massacre. Yet in later years he began to drift towards the Brotherhood. He grew a beard and went regularly to mosque. But this time Hafez decided the Brotherhood could be useful rather than dangerous and himself approached them. He showed his changed attitudes by having Rifa'at placed under house arrest in their home town Latakia on Mediterranean shores.
Iqbal Latif
Not one of the Arab leaders, however, offered any support for the bombing campaign.
<After meeting President Assad, Mr Blair travelled on to Saudi Arabia and Jordan for further talks, before heading to Israel and Gaza to see Ariel Sharon, the Israeli Prime Minister, and Yassir Arafat, the Palestinian leader.
Not one of the Arab leaders, however, offered any support for the bombing campaign. Mr Blair now recognises that even if they had wanted to help, their domestic political pressures would have made such a statement impossible. >
Why Bashar humiliated Blair.
<TONY BLAIR shifted uneasily on his feet as his eyes flicked across to the British journalists seated in front of him at the presidential palace in Damascus.
The Prime Minister has always had an intuitive grasp of how events will be interpreted and he knew immediately that his joint press conference with Bashar al-Assad was going very badly wrong.
The Syrian President, standing just a few feet away from him, was warming to his task. He condemned the bombing of Afghanistan, which was causing “thousands” of civilian casualties.
Palestinian “freedom fighters” were not terrorists, he said, they were like the French resistance under Charles de Gaulle. It was Israel, not Syria, that was “prosecuting state terrorism”.
Somewhere on the road to Damascus, Mr Blair had chosen to dismiss Foreign Office warnings against holding a press conference with President Assad. The result was that for the first time in four trips and almost 40,000 air miles of shuttle diplomacy since September 11, the Prime Minister had hit real trouble as he came face to face with the hard, intractable reality of Middle East politics.
According to close aides, Mr Blair was uncertain how to react to his public dressing down. If he argued with his host, he risked diplomatic disaster and inevitable headlines about a public slanging match. If he let it go, the Prime Minister knew he would appear to have been humiliated at the hands of an Arab dictator. In the end, he bit the bullet — as well as his tongue — and chose the latter course. >
In light of above, one can imagine why I think Pakistani President did a great job... this is the reason I think that he s a man of vision unlike other in the Arab wrold who are despots and are willing and unwilling tools in the hands of destructive machines like AlQaeda and Hamas.
Iqbal Latif
<<"Yes, for the 30th straight day Osama bin
Laden, a mass murderer, has cloaked himself in a human
blanket of Afghan civilians. Unfortunately, this has led to
some civilian deaths." Or "Yes, for the fourth straight
week Osama bin Laden, the man who sends other Muslims to
their death but never risks his own life, is now sending
Afghans to die for him.">>
Ike puts it this way..
Osama is a symptom a curse that is born every few decades, all psychopaths are alike they have same common traits of ‘tyrannical and repressive attitudes’ irrespective of their nationalities Saddam, Osama and Hitler.
<Not a single Arab-Muslim leader has yet answered bin
Laden's taped message, which was heard all over the world.
Our Arab-Muslim allies have to give their people a vision
of why they are with us - not just secretly let us use
their bases while their newspapers fuel anti-American rage.>
Your experts know a LOT but let me highlight further few points and undercurrents of all of this geopolitical behind the door juggling. THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN on November 2, 2001 is little economical with facts, we as nation in majority are defying what could have been a great Saudi Al Qissim based ulema conspiracy of Wahabi Islam not to act AND create a greater front from Maghreb to Brunei. One man destroyed it single headedly that was…. In my opinion and I will repeat what a French general told me he saved the world from clash of civilisations, the reason Kuwaitis, Saudi and others are not talking is that it is them that are under implosion, the population will remove the rulers if these fundamentalists nest are hurt. The best bet for the west would be to encourage Turkey, Pakistan and even Iran to form a new role, along with this Iraqi regime should be toppled and replaced by a secular regime of opposition, revival of CENTO is must to control the region.
THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN forgets to highlight the maturity and chivalrous conduct of our President Musharraf who in no less term has done against all odds and expectations created the greatest schism in the Islamic world by going along with US. A poor, wretched Pakistan was of no use to these Arabs; Prince Saud Al Faisal has visited Pakistan twice in last few days for thanks and gratitude.
I know that the internal dissent in Saudi could not be exploited within House of Saud as the largest and strongest nation within Islamic world decided to side with US so openly. The Sudieris seven and Price Abdullah are on two different courses, the Sudieris are supportive of US mass annihilation of terrorists, Abdullah sceptical as he aligns himself with the religious elements of the Saudi and as head of national guard the biggest stumbling block against the volatile aspiration of most explosive region of Saudi is the guard against any uprising against the rule of Sudieris seven. However, if he sees an opportunity to install his family to the top and side step his half brother forcing Fahd to abdicate the chances are that we can even see a more fundamentalist Saudi with Abdullah as king and his son Mitab Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz as Crown Price.
President Musharraf has not only steered the whole nation towards moderation and that is in itself is no small feat for my nation known to be the next and future ‘nation in waiting’ for implosion. By demanding the head of Omar before Osama, he has quietened the radical element within Saudi, although they do not have much of a regard for poor Pakistan but a Islamic Pakistan as a US ally has added no significance to the stability of the pro-west Sudieris and I would not be surprised if Sudieris further cultivate this relationship with moderate Pakistan until Fahd is alive as King to undercut the influence of the radical element within Saudi. The stability factor has far reaching implications; an Osama whole battle to light up the Islamic world with this throwing of tinder has failed, like a rat he is counting his days. The credit for this goes to Bush and his team I will tell you candidly, they dealt with this threat in the most intelligent manner, I doubt anyone else could have pulled it better, my hats of to the team.
. Friedman should know that and should have made that exception; brave man should be praised openly. I have my doubts on stability of many of other Islamic nations where open dissent is not allowed, in my nation where dissent and political disagreements or war of sectarianism or ethnic rivalries are not crashed with tanks has shown the Islamic world a new path, hopefully one day people will appreciate it once Kabul and Mazar-e-Shariff falls in few days.
On Rushdie….do you remember.. I do remember..
I was under attack for some misunderstanding of one of my ealrier post.. I reproducing my partial reply to that gentleman...
<Yes I remember it well. But these Islam nations will defend the terrorist to the death in a Holy War but want to kill an author.
.>
We know Rushdie family in Karachi; we had even eaten with his Uncle and Aunt at DeKhan’s, so don’t tell me that we as individual were bystanders we were not, we are in the hornets nest and fighting a war that will one day take our life but we are happy to give it, this self righteous streak and activity to take humanity to medievalist milieus needs to be stopped, I am proud to be in the fore front of that. I opposed the author condemnation in the Islamic world under an article 'The children of the lesser God.' Published in nearly six newspapers.
Voltaire’s books were burned and woman were burn as witches and until 1945, 6 million innocent people were sent to burn to death, all nations have a learning curve, Germans given a chance came out as biggest allies, US could have made them their biggest enemy. The treaty of Versailles that charged them with reparations brought the 2nd World war, the Marshall plan brought the prosperity and stoppage of hundreds of years of war, what I want is that once this hidden enemy is exposed and dealt with we should not leave poverty pockets that may bring these kind of devastation on mankind. My sisters are married to a Jew and a Christian and my nephews are US citizens, for me the future of these kids need not to be darkened by creation of new enemies. I am a truly global citizen and have several times openly written that US model is the model that is the true hope for mankind. I even don't short the market for that sake. As a small thinker I think that unresolved issues need to solve, my nephews should not be a cannon fodder in war of civilization, majority of US would agree with me on that. I do my best to denounce the terrorists in media that belongs to that region and do it under my name. Therefore equally hated by these very same characters. Hated by you and them because I stand for something. I condemn them and ridicule them 100's of SI posts are witness of all that, you without knowing me are attacking me with kid of merciless accusations, the things that I have fought against all my life will not be accepted by me. ( excerpts from a previous post on a different thread)
Iqbal Latif
<<"Yes, for the 30th straight day Osama bin
Laden, a mass murderer, has cloaked himself in a human
blanket of Afghan civilians. Unfortunately, this has led to
some civilian deaths." Or "Yes, for the fourth straight
week Osama bin Laden, the man who sends other Muslims to
their death but never risks his own life, is now sending
Afghans to die for him.">>
Ike puts it this way..
Osama is a symptom a curse that is born every few decades, all psychopaths are alike they have same common traits of ‘tyrannical and repressive attitudes’ irrespective of their nationalities Saddam, Osama and Hitler.
<Not a single Arab-Muslim leader has yet answered bin
Laden's taped message, which was heard all over the world.
Our Arab-Muslim allies have to give their people a vision
of why they are with us - not just secretly let us use
their bases while their newspapers fuel anti-American rage.>
Your experts know a LOT but let me highlight further few points and undercurrents of all of this geopolitical behind the door juggling. THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN on November 2, 2001 is little economical with facts, we as nation in majority are defying what could have been a great Saudi Al Qissim based ulema conspiracy of Wahabi Islam not to act AND create a greater front from Maghreb to Brunei. One man destroyed it single headedly that was…. In my opinion and I will repeat what a French general told me he saved the world from clash of civilisations, the reason Kuwaitis, Saudi and others are not talking is that it is them that are under implosion, the population will remove the rulers if these fundamentalists nest are hurt. The best bet for the west would be to encourage Turkey, Pakistan and even Iran to form a new role, along with this Iraqi regime should be toppled and replaced by a secular regime of opposition, revival of CENTO is must to control the region.
THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN forgets to highlight the maturity and chivalrous conduct of our President Musharraf who in no less term has done against all odds and expectations created the greatest schism in the Islamic world by going along with US. A poor, wretched Pakistan was of no use to these Arabs; Prince Saud Al Faisal has visited Pakistan twice in last few days for thanks and gratitude.
I know that the internal dissent in Saudi could not be exploited within House of Saud as the largest and strongest nation within Islamic world decided to side with US so openly. The Sudieris seven and Price Abdullah are on two different courses, the Sudieris are supportive of US mass annihilation of terrorists, Abdullah sceptical as he aligns himself with the religious elements of the Saudi and as head of national guard the biggest stumbling block against the volatile aspiration of most explosive region of Saudi is the guard against any uprising against the rule of Sudieris seven. However, if he sees an opportunity to install his family to the top and side step his half brother forcing Fahd to abdicate the chances are that we can even see a more fundamentalist Saudi with Abdullah as king and his son Mitab Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz as Crown Price.
President Musharraf has not only steered the whole nation towards moderation and that is in itself is no small feat for my nation known to be the next and future ‘nation in waiting’ for implosion. By demanding the head of Omar before Osama, he has quietened the radical element within Saudi, although they do not have much of a regard for poor Pakistan but a Islamic Pakistan as a US ally has added no significance to the stability of the pro-west Sudieris and I would not be surprised if Sudieris further cultivate this relationship with moderate Pakistan until Fahd is alive as King to undercut the influence of the radical element within Saudi. The stability factor has far reaching implications; an Osama whole battle to light up the Islamic world with this throwing of tinder has failed, like a rat he is counting his days. The credit for this goes to Bush and his team I will tell you candidly, they dealt with this threat in the most intelligent manner, I doubt anyone else could have pulled it better, my hats of to the team.
. Friedman should know that and should have made that exception; brave man should be praised openly. I have my doubts on stability of many of other Islamic nations where open dissent is not allowed, in my nation where dissent and political disagreements or war of sectarianism or ethnic rivalries are not crashed with tanks has shown the Islamic world a new path, hopefully one day people will appreciate it once Kabul and Mazar-e-Shariff falls in few days.
On Rushdie….do you remember.. I do remember..
I was under attack for some misunderstanding of one of my ealrier post.. I reproducing my partial reply to that gentleman...
<Yes I remember it well. But these Islam nations will defend the terrorist to the death in a Holy War but want to kill an author.
.>
We know Rushdie family in Karachi; we had even eaten with his Uncle and Aunt at DeKhan’s, so don’t tell me that we as individual were bystanders we were not, we are in the hornets nest and fighting a war that will one day take our life but we are happy to give it, this self righteous streak and activity to take humanity to medievalist milieus needs to be stopped, I am proud to be in the fore front of that. I opposed the author condemnation in the Islamic world under an article 'The children of the lesser God.' Published in nearly six newspapers.
Voltaire’s books were burned and woman were burn as witches and until 1945, 6 million innocent people were sent to burn to death, all nations have a learning curve, Germans given a chance came out as biggest allies, US could have made them their biggest enemy. The treaty of Versailles that charged them with reparations brought the 2nd World war, the Marshall plan brought the prosperity and stoppage of hundreds of years of war, what I want is that once this hidden enemy is exposed and dealt with we should not leave poverty pockets that may bring these kind of devastation on mankind. My sisters are married to a Jew and a Christian and my nephews are US citizens, for me the future of these kids need not to be darkened by creation of new enemies. I am a truly global citizen and have several times openly written that US model is the model that is the true hope for mankind. I even don't short the market for that sake. As a small thinker I think that unresolved issues need to solve, my nephews should not be a cannon fodder in war of civilization, majority of US would agree with me on that. I do my best to denounce the terrorists in media that belongs to that region and do it under my name. Therefore equally hated by these very same characters. Hated by you and them because I stand for something. I condemn them and ridicule them 100's of SI posts are witness of all that, you without knowing me are attacking me with kid of merciless accusations, the things that I have fought against all my life will not be accepted by me. ( excerpts from a previous post on a different thread)
<Whenever U.S. officials speak about
Saddam they should always say: "Saddam Hussein, the man who
has killed more Muslims in the 20th century than any other
human being . . ." (He's killed a million Iranians, Iraqi
Kurds and Kuwaitis.) Or they should point out that Saddam
and bin Laden are "the world's two biggest hijackers - they
have each hijacked a country and are holding its civilians
hostage, and we're trying to liberate them.">
In my opinion Pakistan is the pivot, we have got them on our side that was most important. The nest of terror lies in Afghanistan, the Northern Province of Pakistan that produces ‘Mullahs the Sunni brand the worst of the kind,’ and ‘Hamas the natural collaborators in the Gaza,’ Syria blow hot blow cold attitude is un-condonable get ALL these crooks they represent the cocktail along with Iraqi regime, Powel did a mistake to let Saddam live after US was at Qaddisiyah ready to flush out Saddam within a day. We cannot any more afford that, lock them up or clean them, I am fed up of seeing children and innocent man dying, no stopping now, liberals and human life lovers may get out of the way. It will to hard to handle. It is and should be an open war. The martyrs of WTC is calling us, clean this mess up, it is our duty otherwise blood of every single martyr of WTC will haunt us until we live for future, -uck the markets at the moment. Get these guys. Now that US has resolve, we have directions to clean them. It is Afghanistan, North of Pakistan, Gaza get in, West Bank, Iraq, Syria and Libya. This is the array of forces we are confronted with, in order of importance all stand to be flushed out, the eastern province of Dharan, the out skirts of Bahrain. And Iran needs to behave properly and allow its reformist to govern after 20 years they have realized that revolution has failed. My friend was with Musharraf on Bateux Mouche when he was last in Paris, over drinks Musharraf asked him what I should do to break the impasse, my friend said go ahead and recognize Israel, we have no problems with Israel, we should go ahead after this terror campaign finishes to recognize the state, everyone else like Arafat the good guy and bad will falling place, but it s a very difficult task we need help, we need commitment from US that we will not be used like a toilet paper and thrown away like last time in Afghanistan against USSR. Our issue of Kashmir is dead and we need to make bridges with our neighbors India. It is a long wish list but that all has to be done, I feel so bad that if these guys would have kept the outposts and maintain the external strength to have the external defense of the great US, we need it, until Romans defended Rome to the extent of Danube what they called external defense they never crumpled once the were isolated the whole thing had fallen, the Praetorian Guards were out for selling to the highest bidders, we lost it big time on external outposts, the liberals who did that should look and see the price US paid. .
Iqbal Latif
<I am much less optimistic that the goals of the ISI are presently aligned with the goals of Pakistan and the USA. . Especially for intelligence organizations that operate in relative secrecy I think that changes in policy occur gradually rather than immediately. >
The inside story of how these rogue Generals are being treated now!! The two leading right wingers retired but active in politics are 4 star Beg (who thought of strategic defiance) and 3 star Gul (Jalalabad fiasco fame), both heavy supporters of status quo, now read on…….. ..
Soon after the world changed on September 11, Pervez Musharraf called a meeting of former big-gun Generals . Anyone who was ever anyone duly assembled in Rawalpindi, amongst them a couple of "strategic defiancists"... General Aslam Beg and "strategic depthists" General Hamid Gul. Our mole at the meeting tells us that General Mirza Aslam Beg , who was at the top during 1990's criticised Pervez Musharraf unequivocal "unstinting support" to the international coalition against terrorism.
Pervez then asked Beg what else he could have done. Beg replied that Musharraf should have been verbally supportive of the international coalition without going the whole hog. He advocated a course of action whereby Musharraf should have kept his options open whilst talking to all sides of the conflict.
Pervez Musharraf had no time for such chop logic and he shot back: "Yes, like you did during the Gulf War with the Prime Minister committing troops to Saudi Arabia and you lauding Saddam Hussain publicly. What did Pakistan get at the end of the day? Nothing". That put paid to General Aslam Beg argument.
From Tomorrows. FT...With thanks..
Iqbal Latif
<``Osama bin Laden called on Muslims in Pakistan to stand in the face of what he called a Christian crusade against Islam,'' a Jazeera newsreader quoted the letter as saying. Pakistan has allied itself with the United States.
``Muslims in Afghanistan are being subjected to killing >
Would AL Jeezera make same announcement of Osama if he makes a call for Saudi rulers or Qatari ruler to be overthrown, I notice now that now his tone is not anti-Arab imperialism what is the original fight all about, now it is the division of Arab and Ajmi. Using Arab assets of communication to dislodge an make another Afghanistan and make our sub-continent a living hell, Osama would fail, but this is the treachery of Jazeera, coded messages to start big wear since he is incommunicado, al allies can do it to watch, I hope these rulers of the region if they are not making Pakistan a cannon fodder to pacify their own people may kindly strangle this new found love with press freedom, they have waited for freedom for 1400 years six more months cannot be that bad.
Putting the lights off for Al Jazeera by Qatar for three months will stop Osama communication, in my opinion. Press freedom is important but press freedom that may kill few thousands more or make a new Afghanistan where few dominate over millions by threat and deceit has to be curtailed.
An Ajmi Pakistan has little importance for these -astards, they way these rich Arabs have screwed Afghanistan, they want us to become a new battle ground to hell with you.
Al-Jazeera is doing Osama's bidding by throwing gunpowder on a already volatile situation. Asking for revolution in Pakistan is very serious assault by station based on a friendly country, it is a assault on our stability, do they want their radical population to be appeased at the expense of our country?
Propagating revolution in a very volatile situation, are they encouraging this new found press freedom to make their own masses happy that the Islamic state that is cooperating in this war is being overthrown by their own element, like Prince Turki announcement yesterday on revolt in Pakistan if war continues until Ramadan, it is part of the bigger script!!
Shut up Al Jazeera, we know who is your paymaster, this is not press freedom but appeasement of your volatile Arab Wahabi dominant population who fuels this war.
Iqbal Latif
A nation standing against the Mullahs and madersas, you will like this one..
Let us sing in chorus with Silent Majority
A.B.S. Jafri
Oh at what an achingly long last has our Silent Majority begun to articulate our anguish and heartaches! Last Thursday, a group of women banded together in Karachi and inaugurated what can be an Odyssey. One should wish most ardently that they have already made history, or started making it. If not, they certainly have produced a kind of daybreak through our irredeemably pitch dark night. These wonderful women, with a token sprinkling of men, organized a seminar and then put up a demonstration to protest against extremism — and plead for sanity.
This nation has been in the stranglehold of charlatans and quacks, trading their spurious wares in the most sacred of names known to civilized humanity. These purveyors of distorted half truths have dug themselves deeper in Karachi than anywhere in the country.
When exactly did the sun of sanity start sinking beyond our horizons? A difficult question to answer. To borrow a few words from the lament of Mirza Ghalib:
kab say houn kiya bataoun jahan-e-kharab mein...
For the sake of convenience and brevity, let us say that the sun of sanity started setting with the arrival of dictator Ziaul Haq at the helm of this adrift ship. Recall July 5, 1977. General Ziaul presented himself as the "soldier of Islam." This is no joke. His own words spoken to a nation in a traumatic daze. Only hours before, he had subverted the constitution of this Islamic republic. Of course, under the cover of the darkness of the darkest of nights in the life of this persistently abused nation.
This "soldier of Islam," began his career with the solemn promise to restore the country to democracy after elections "in 90 days." He stayed on for more than 3,600 days, mind you. And all those days he was harping on what he would have us believe were religious themes. During his long and disastrous misrule, he spread his own brand of 'Islam.' Behind his toothy smile he carried the immense burden of the bad conscience of a usurper for whom the least punishment was the shooting squad.
Most of the ultra-active clerics of today were anointed during that regime, by the man with false promises. Few in our brief half-a-century history have done more to disorientate the people of this country than that pretender claiming to be serving the cause of Islam.
Karachi remained his chief target. Because he suspected this city was relatively more educated and able to communicate with the contemporary culture of common sense and moderation. Note the country is in turmoil because of the seeds sown a quarter of a century ago. No city in the country is so helplessly at the mercy of extremists as Karachi. There are more deni madarasas in and around Karachi than anywhere.
Those who may be impatient to cite the example of some pockets in the north and north-west had better hold their breath. Those remote nooks had always had some such tendencies in a wholly illiterate and almost innocent way. In Karachi this is an entirely alien corn. And sown by the hands of none but the self-proclaimed "Soldier of Islam." No other city has seen such rapid proliferation of the deni madarsas as this educated metropolis, seat of industry, trade, commerce and also education. According to one educated senior citizen of Karachi, this city has well over one hundred thousand joints that are the nerve centres of diehard extremism. These are seminaries from where descend hordes of agitators who have an uncanny expertise in rioting, arson and destructive crafts.
In this environment, reeking with blackmail, intimidation and actual use of uninhibited violence against the sane citizens, the initiative of "Silent Majority" comes as a whiff of fresh air. Mark the irony in the fact that in this country, reverberating with noise and fury, kicked up by pseudo clerics, the majority feels too insecure to speak out, let alone to mount a protest. This is a measure of the fear of violence from the fanatics. When the armed forces of the fanatics are out in the field, the average law abiding citizen is driven to opt for the fallacious and defeatist line of least resistance.
How heartless the extremist elements can get is so glaringly evident from the use of raw youth as the cannon fodder in their warfare. Little children are displayed at the head of furious processions, brandishing automatic weapons, notably the notorious Klashnikov. As far as the decent people are concerned, display of weapons is not only in atrociously bad taste but also illegal and a cognizable offence. This brazen defiance with impunity is from the so-called religious parties and religious leaders and the reverend Maulana and Ulema.
There is so much of din and to-do about Jihad. If this is to be a dedicated effort to curb evil and promote virtue, it is welcome. Our society is perforated with consuming evils. What about corruption in public services? Do we need any proof of how fearsomely widespread and deep-rooted this evil is? What do we have these Army Monitoring Teams, the Criminal Investigation Agency, and the Accountability Courts in aid of? What prevents our 'religious leaders' from taking up cudgels against the corrupt? Why not plead for the social boycott of the known corrupt? Why not stage protests against corruption?
These pious men cannot see the condition of inner cities where millions of the poorer people live and suffer. In Karachi there is hardly a clean street. In this city an average of a dozen cars a day are taken away, mostly on gun point. Crime is on the rise. The other day the elected Nazim spoke of the need to promote tree plantation. No maulana, no ulema, has time to look at these evils on the one hand and social needs on the other and do the needful.
Equally dismaying is the attitude of the political leaders. They have been on an unearned holiday from common sense.
The moderate and sane citizen has stayed silent and indolent for far too long and with injury to none but the decent and the honourable in our society. By way of political demonstrations decency must be defended in a positive and activist manner. Honour must be upheld and protected in an articulate and assertive way.
The figure that has led this move is a lady who is revered by all and for all the good reasons, too. There can hardly be a nobler voice to intone with to produce a chorus articulating the sorrow of the soul of this nation. It is time for all good people to speak out.
Iqbal Latif
"His people are behind him, his military is behind him."
Chamberlin said Musharraf had successfully convinced "all sectors of the Pakistani society" that his decision to cooperate with the US-led campaign was the right thing to do. She said anti-American demonstrations in Pakistan, images of which are repeatedly shown on US and international television, were not as grave as one might imagine. "I think they are a bit exaggerated in the Western press," Chamberlin said of the protests. Chamberlin said she believed Musharraf was in complete control of the country and needn't worry that anti-American demonstrations taking place almost daily posed a real threat to his rule. "I feel he is quite secure," she said. "His people are behind him, his military is behind him."
Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf is "totally in support" of the US-led war on terrorism despite calls for a quick end to military operations now underway in Afghanistan, Washington's ambassador to Islamabad said Tuesday.
"He is absolutely totally in support of our effort," Wendy Chamberlin said, saying that construing Musharraf's pleas for the campaign to end early and possibly halt before Ramazan as demands were "a bit of a misinterpretation."
She noted that Musharraf had expressed his full support to her as recently as Monday when she met the president along with General Tommy Franks, the commander-in-chief of the US Central Command who is directing the operation.
Musharraf "does express a hope that the bombing ends soon," Chamberlin said in an interview
with NBC television's "Today" programme from Islamabad. "I don't think that there's a person on earth that doesn't agree that this thing should be over as quickly as possible."
But she said the war would not end until the United States had achieved its objective of bringing down Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaeda network and ending support to them by the Taliban. "President Musharraf, (US President George W) Bush, myself, everyone else hopes that that we can achieve our objectives and achieve them very quickly," Chamberlin said.
Iqbal Latif
In Hindustan TimesMusharraf said he saw the growing possibility of a revolt against the Taliban paving the way for a political solution that would end the need for the daily bombing that has inflicted an increasing toll on civilians.
"No, it's not wishful thinking," Musharraf said when pressed about the prospect of desertions in the dominant Pashtun tribe that has supported the Taliban so far.
"Who is the head of the Pashtun? Not the Taliban. It is a very calculated remark that I am making," said the former commando leader, declining to go into details about who he expected to leave the Taliban. PROMOTING REVOLT
Musharraf defended the Taliban until the September 11 attacks on the United States, when he lined up behind the US campaign against them for sheltering Osama bin Laden, the Saudi-born militant blamed for the devastation in New York and Washington.
"Afghanistan has suffered, the people are suffering so much that I am reasonably sure there are many people who even question the wisdom of their suffering for the sake of somebody who is there and not an Afghan, like Osama bin Laden and his people," he said.
"There are some people who would be thinking on these lines and those are the people who may be waiting to change sides."
Musharraf, dressed in a striped navy suit but still sweating from a three-set evening tennis match, would not venture a guess on when the war would end in Afghanistan -- either by military victory or disintegration of the Taliban.
Iqbal Latif
<<1. Who's responsible for the anthrax attack on the U.S.? What is the current thinking of that question among Pakistani leadership and elites?
3. Perception in this country is that the U.S.-led coalition is beginning to lose it's strategic grip on the Afghan situation. I don't necessary believe that, and I appreciate your optimism regarding the outcome. How is the prosecution of the war being viewed "off the street" in Pakistan and elsewhere in the region?>>
To be frank, I have no idea but my best estimated guess or my instinct leads me to believe that this is too sophisticated a job for the likes of Bin Laden. Bio-terrorism, although equally reprehensible, is far trickier to handle than a deceitful and cowardly act of hijacking a plane and running it into a building.
In my opinion most of them would have picked up anthrax if the Bin Laden group had handled it. If you have been following this anthrax case closely, you would have found that reports are leading towards a domestic hand trying to take advantage of the current situation. Its more akin to a Unabomber type of deranged group.
I do hope they are caught although when I was caught up in Kuwait in August 1990, we had a false alarm of Iraqis planning to attack with poison gas. I remember the children were young and the whole family spent the night in a basement where towels soaked in water were placed under the doorsills and all air conditioning ducts were closed. It was the first time I had heard about Anthrax. Uncharacteristically Iraqi demeanour has been very subdued and the Libyans are quiet.
With the change of government in Syria and Bashar in charge, a leading ophthalmologist, I doubt the Syrians have the stomach or the appetite to engage in such a nefarious activity. The strains of the Anthrax, the frequency of the postings and a deliberate attempt to disfigure the writing will lead to the culprits in the near future.
I have not been able to discuss this issue with a great many Pakistanis but my friends are delighted with the Government policy and genuinely feel that Musharraf has turned a corner and begun a new era. In Pakistan, I am not a very liked person due to my condemnation of Islamic extremism and their involvement in across the border terrorism, which at times leads to myself being labelled as a traitor.
Hence now when I talk about orthodox islams responsibility in encouraging violence and terrorism in the name of Holy Jihad and hold Imam Ghazali treatise responsible for “death of enlightenment” corresponds to Blasphemy. On that premise alone, I could be sentenced to death. But I have never cared nor shall I back away when the truth has to be expounded. I have one nationality, humanity and I consider myself to be a global citizen and as such my views tend to make me at odds with a lot of people.
My relationship with the elite in Pakistan is blow hot blow cold. They have the perception that I am a maverick and as a consequence do not carry much weight and that realisation helps me to be open and impartial. Fairness again is a relative term and sometimes I do get upset with slanted news reports and the spin created. From the last 5 years in this thread, I have continued my banal activities and make my forecasts on global events. That independent free mind helps me make that those kind of analysis and deductions that are now considered by some on SI as insider information.
I laugh on it since when I was making a prediction of the Bush-Gore campaign, I was “THE INSIDER” since most of the projections held true to form. But the truth is I was no insider then nor am I now. Yes I am defending my nation vehemently because the failure of Pakistan to perform would be nightmarish. It would destabilize the whole of Northern India. Afghanistan has 5 million guns, Pakistan has 17 million guns.
They are fiercely independent people and I have to admit that they do support Islam over the US but on this particular issue, the people are satisfied that their neck has been saved. I have no doubt whatsoever that Pakistan could have been a target if emotions would have prevailed. I do not think that this would have cost the US much but my country would have been devastated in every aspect.
At these crossroads, the elite of Pakistan generally are quite pro-Musharraf and support his strategy. The background of the subcontinent is a pre-requisite in understanding the dynamics and popular public reaction. The authority is very much subscribed to like 30,000 bureaucrats ruled 300,000,000 subjects and my Indian friends get irked and piqued by their own sense of grandiosity. I am a far simpler man and understand my limitations and see that authority is never challenged therefore the concept of a coup against Musharraf is far fetched and assuming the worst that he is taken out as an individual, the next in line Joe (Nickname) is another liberal.
This whole propaganda that the Pakistan army is responsible for all the wrongs on the earth is good enough for the New York Times and The Times of India. It holds good reading for the gullible masses but someone with even minimal knowledge of the ethos of the Pakistan Army would know that the commissioned officer would give his life rather than revolt against his chief. I see that Musharraf will accept the recent request for increased co-operation and all these joy killers making their own assumptions about command and control will be sorely disappointed. Even if this recent news is factual that few nuclear scientists had ugly connections, look at the closeness of the relationship with the US. These Pakistanis are handed over for further interrogation, which is what the Hindustan Times is reporting today.
I think the war is going on track and there is no fear of losing the objective. The whole organisation and network of terrorism are on the run and I remain steadfast in my belief that the US forces can complete the job very quickly. This is one of the most unreported campaign and the news that we have received from the press that 35 of the Pakistani activists who joined the Taleban all lost their life in a single attack.
If one attack can yield such a rich booty of deranged terrorists who left their the peace of their home and wanted to wage war with a bunch of lunatics a.k.a Taleban, I can imagine what is happening to the Taleban front line rank and file.
When the aerial campaign began on the Iraqi forces in Kuwait on 21st Jan 1991, we all expected that the Iraqi army will collapse. However as time went by and the aerial campaign had no end in sight, we thought that the bombings had been ineffective against the entrenched Iraqi positions. But in reality as the Allied forces began to move in, the Iraqis were totally decimated and surrendered as POW.
So the Taleban exist only in the figment of our imagination and I will deal with this aspect accordingly. They have been on the run and have endured a serious body blow. Most of their leaders are hiding and their oppressive writ is lost. Since the world tends to believe that hiding bandits control Afghanistan, yes I concede to that but as bandits and not as governors. They cannot use this as a basis of launching future attacks.
Impatience with war is part and parcel of peaceful societies therefore Eisenhower’s and Churchill’s are such a rare breed who exactly know the resolve required to beat down the adversary and deliver that with the best of efforts. Great leaders have the potential to deliver great results and I sincerely believe that the US is bestowed by providence at this crucial junction. His father delivered in the Gulf and he will deliver now.
<<2. Where does Saudi Arabia really stand? Who's in charge there?>>
Saudis are in a real dilemma. They cannot support because they had no idea of what a strong network of disgruntled Saudis have massed up in south west of Saudi Arabia. After the invasion of the Grand Mosques by Otaiba Jhamayan, this is the first time that the wahabi orthodoxy is on a collision course with the House of Saud. Prince Abdullah has recently stated that we need to see the pulse of our nation.
The House of Saud is like the House of Pahlavi of 1978. the Pahlavi’s had their Ayatollah and the Sauds are worried about their new Amir-ul-Momneen. It goes without saying that these Muslim extremists are butchers and assassins of the highest order. The pathetic part is that Osama Bin-Laden calls Omar as the Amir-ul-Momneen.
To achieve his nefarious objectives which is the political takeover of Saudi Arabia. Theologically speaking Osama Bin-Laden is not the prospective Ayatollah in waiting and is actually Omar who has been giving this title only to the extent of fighting the war and winning it in Saudi Arabia. Once the extremists are successful in Saudi Arabia, Ajami Omar will be forgotten. So the poor Omar is the cannon fodder for bigger Inter-Arab theological war of the Wahabi’s where their common enemy is the House of Saud which is definitely pro-west.
The dilemma I referred to is this. To be in the good books of the extremist elements of their own country, they have to be decisively sound more conservative and their relationship with the West is definitely at a crossroad. I see that within the next 1 or 2 years they would like to tow an independent line and the present frozen relationship with Arafat will be revived. The House of Saud have definitely tried to play to the galleries and masses.
I concur with this approach and it is my opinion that a repressive House of Saud is better than a democratic Wahabi Orthodoxy like we have seen in Iran. The Shah would have better than the crippled democracy of the Ayatollahs. But the Shia Orthodoxy is more openminded than the Wahabi Orthodoxy and to quantify it on a scale of 1-10 in terms of oppression. If the Shia’s are 7, then the Sunnis would be 9. If I was the west, I would not demand much of Saudi Arabia. I would concentrate more on Turkey and try to cement the present gains of west in Pakistan. It would also be preferable to establish a toe-hole like the long-standing close relationship Turkey enjoys with the US. Pakistan Army to be encouraged and quietly moved towards a more liberal role. I am definitely sure that a new era has begun in terms of the regional stability.
Pakistan and Turkey will be the key players in this emerging epoch. When Saud-Al-Faisal was in Pakistan recently, I’m pretty sure he must have given a lot of support to the Pakistani government and they are supporting this action by demonstrating through material help.
Too much criticism of Saudi would serve only to encourage the opponents of the House of Saud. The cells of South Western Saudi Arabia would love to see a withdrawal of support from the West. That can be quite devastating especially in Oil prices.
The world markets did stomach the Iranian revolution but Saudi unrest would definitely cause chaos to the global economy. As a swing producer, Saudi stability is important. My two cents worth..
My best to you and yours..
Iqbal Latif
<<1. Who's responsible for the anthrax attack on the U.S.? What is the current thinking of that question among Pakistani leadership and elites?
3. Perception in this country is that the U.S.-led coalition is beginning to lose it's strategic grip on the Afghan situation. I don't necessary believe that, and I appreciate your optimism regarding the outcome. How is the prosecution of the war being viewed "off the street" in Pakistan and elsewhere in the region?>>
To be frank, I have no idea but my best estimated guess or my instinct leads me to believe that this is too sophisticated a job for the likes of Bin Laden. Bio-terrorism, although equally reprehensible, is far trickier to handle than a deceitful and cowardly act of hijacking a plane and running it into a building.
In my opinion most of them would have picked up anthrax if the Bin Laden group had handled it. If you have been following this anthrax case closely, you would have found that reports are leading towards a domestic hand trying to take advantage of the current situation. Its more akin to a Unabomber type of deranged group.
I do hope they are caught although when I was caught up in Kuwait in August 1990, we had a false alarm of Iraqis planning to attack with poison gas. I remember the children were young and the whole family spent the night in a basement where towels soaked in water were placed under the doorsills and all air conditioning ducts were closed. It was the first time I had heard about Anthrax. Uncharacteristically Iraqi demeanour has been very subdued and the Libyans are quiet.
With the change of government in Syria and Bashar in charge, a leading ophthalmologist, I doubt the Syrians have the stomach or the appetite to engage in such a nefarious activity. The strains of the Anthrax, the frequency of the postings and a deliberate attempt to disfigure the writing will lead to the culprits in the near future.
I have not been able to discuss this issue with a great many Pakistanis but my friends are delighted with the Government policy and genuinely feel that Musharraf has turned a corner and begun a new era. In Pakistan, I am not a very liked person due to my condemnation of Islamic extremism and their involvement in across the border terrorism, which at times leads to myself being labelled as a traitor.
Hence now when I talk about orthodox islams responsibility in encouraging violence and terrorism in the name of Holy Jihad and hold Imam Ghazali treatise responsible for “death of enlightenment” corresponds to Blasphemy. On that premise alone, I could be sentenced to death. But I have never cared nor shall I back away when the truth has to be expounded. I have one nationality, humanity and I consider myself to be a global citizen and as such my views tend to make me at odds with a lot of people.
My relationship with the elite in Pakistan is blow hot blow cold. They have the perception that I am a maverick and as a consequence do not carry much weight and that realisation helps me to be open and impartial. Fairness again is a relative term and sometimes I do get upset with slanted news reports and the spin created. From the last 5 years in this thread, I have continued my banal activities and make my forecasts on global events. That independent free mind helps me make that those kind of analysis and deductions that are now considered by some on SI as insider information.
I laugh on it since when I was making a prediction of the Bush-Gore campaign, I was “THE INSIDER” since most of the projections held true to form. But the truth is I was no insider then nor am I now. Yes I am defending my nation vehemently because the failure of Pakistan to perform would be nightmarish. It would destabilize the whole of Northern India. Afghanistan has 5 million guns, Pakistan has 17 million guns.
They are fiercely independent people and I have to admit that they do support Islam over the US but on this particular issue, the people are satisfied that their neck has been saved. I have no doubt whatsoever that Pakistan could have been a target if emotions would have prevailed. I do not think that this would have cost the US much but my country would have been devastated in every aspect.
At these crossroads, the elite of Pakistan generally are quite pro-Musharraf and support his strategy. The background of the subcontinent is a pre-requisite in understanding the dynamics and popular public reaction. The authority is very much subscribed to like 30,000 bureaucrats ruled 300,000,000 subjects and my Indian friends get irked and piqued by their own sense of grandiosity. I am a far simpler man and understand my limitations and see that authority is never challenged therefore the concept of a coup against Musharraf is far fetched and assuming the worst that he is taken out as an individual, the next in line Joe (Nickname) is another liberal.
This whole propaganda that the Pakistan army is responsible for all the wrongs on the earth is good enough for the New York Times and The Times of India. It holds good reading for the gullible masses but someone with even minimal knowledge of the ethos of the Pakistan Army would know that the commissioned officer would give his life rather than revolt against his chief. I see that Musharraf will accept the recent request for increased co-operation and all these joy killers making their own assumptions about command and control will be sorely disappointed. Even if this recent news is factual that few nuclear scientists had ugly connections, look at the closeness of the relationship with the US. These Pakistanis are handed over for further interrogation, which is what the Hindustan Times is reporting today.
I think the war is going on track and there is no fear of losing the objective. The whole organisation and network of terrorism are on the run and I remain steadfast in my belief that the US forces can complete the job very quickly. This is one of the most unreported campaign and the news that we have received from the press that 35 of the Pakistani activists who joined the Taleban all lost their life in a single attack.
If one attack can yield such a rich booty of deranged terrorists who left their the peace of their home and wanted to wage war with a bunch of lunatics a.k.a Taleban, I can imagine what is happening to the Taleban front line rank and file.
When the aerial campaign began on the Iraqi forces in Kuwait on 21st Jan 1991, we all expected that the Iraqi army will collapse. However as time went by and the aerial campaign had no end in sight, we thought that the bombings had been ineffective against the entrenched Iraqi positions. But in reality as the Allied forces began to move in, the Iraqis were totally decimated and surrendered as POW.
So the Taleban exist only in the figment of our imagination and I will deal with this aspect accordingly. They have been on the run and have endured a serious body blow. Most of their leaders are hiding and their oppressive writ is lost. Since the world tends to believe that hiding bandits control Afghanistan, yes I concede to that but as bandits and not as governors. They cannot use this as a basis of launching future attacks.
Impatience with war is part and parcel of peaceful societies therefore Eisenhower’s and Churchill’s are such a rare breed who exactly know the resolve required to beat down the adversary and deliver that with the best of efforts. Great leaders have the potential to deliver great results and I sincerely believe that the US is bestowed by providence at this crucial junction. His father delivered in the Gulf and he will deliver now.
<<2. Where does Saudi Arabia really stand? Who's in charge there?>>
Saudis are in a real dilemma. They cannot support because they had no idea of what a strong network of disgruntled Saudis have massed up in south west of Saudi Arabia. After the invasion of the Grand Mosques by Otaiba Jhamayan, this is the first time that the wahabi orthodoxy is on a collision course with the House of Saud. Prince Abdullah has recently stated that we need to see the pulse of our nation.
The House of Saud is like the House of Pahlavi of 1978. the Pahlavi’s had their Ayatollah and the Sauds are worried about their new Amir-ul-Momneen. It goes without saying that these Muslim extremists are butchers and assassins of the highest order. The pathetic part is that Osama Bin-Laden calls Omar as the Amir-ul-Momneen.
To achieve his nefarious objectives which is the political takeover of Saudi Arabia. Theologically speaking Osama Bin-Laden is not the prospective Ayatollah in waiting and is actually Omar who has been giving this title only to the extent of fighting the war and winning it in Saudi Arabia. Once the extremists are successful in Saudi Arabia, Ajami Omar will be forgotten. So the poor Omar is the cannon fodder for bigger Inter-Arab theological war of the Wahabi’s where their common enemy is the House of Saud which is definitely pro-west.
The dilemma I referred to is this. To be in the good books of the extremist elements of their own country, they have to be decisively sound more conservative and their relationship with the West is definitely at a crossroad. I see that within the next 1 or 2 years they would like to tow an independent line and the present frozen relationship with Arafat will be revived. The House of Saud have definitely tried to play to the galleries and masses.
I concur with this approach and it is my opinion that a repressive House of Saud is better than a democratic Wahabi Orthodoxy like we have seen in Iran. The Shah would have better than the crippled democracy of the Ayatollahs. But the Shia Orthodoxy is more openminded than the Wahabi Orthodoxy and to quantify it on a scale of 1-10 in terms of oppression. If the Shia’s are 7, then the Sunnis would be 9. If I was the west, I would not demand much of Saudi Arabia. I would concentrate more on Turkey and try to cement the present gains of west in Pakistan. It would also be preferable to establish a toe-hole like the long-standing close relationship Turkey enjoys with the US. Pakistan Army to be encouraged and quietly moved towards a more liberal role. I am definitely sure that a new era has begun in terms of the regional stability.
Pakistan and Turkey will be the key players in this emerging epoch. When Saud-Al-Faisal was in Pakistan recently, I’m pretty sure he must have given a lot of support to the Pakistani government and they are supporting this action by demonstrating through material help.
Too much criticism of Saudi would serve only to encourage the opponents of the House of Saud. The cells of South Western Saudi Arabia would love to see a withdrawal of support from the West. That can be quite devastating especially in Oil prices.
The world markets did stomach the Iranian revolution but Saudi unrest would definitely cause chaos to the global economy. As a swing producer, Saudi stability is important. My two cents worth..
My best to you and yours..
Iqbal Latif
I totally agree. It is great fun listening to the bunnies.
Regards
John
I got the information from KGO Bunny World(?)(10pm to 1am) and the orther guy; I don't know his name but he usually hosts the talkshow from 1am up to 4am. I believe the source is accurate. You know day to pm hosts are totally different animals from late night ones. Far right to far left depends on your belief. I am an owl so stay up late. Dr. Wantenburg(?) got into Bunny last week for their differences through the callers. It is fun to listen to Bunny.
About the duration of military operation in Afghanistan, Musharraf said it could be completed in few days if the military objectives are achieved.
Latest from Pakistan..Musharraf said that Afghans were deliberating on these issues and they were planning to hold a convention. “The political strategy should be crystallized as early as possible. If there is any vacuum it should be there to be filled in.”
He said there were saner elements in Afghanistan and every body including Afghans were witnessing what was happening there. “They want an end to their miseries, they have been facing for the last 21 years.”
To a question, the President said he was not aware of the situation inside Afghanistan whether Taliban remained united or not after military operation. But everyone wants an end to the miseries the Afghans have faced since long.”
About civilian causalities in Afghanistan, the President said: “In such a big military operation the possibility of collateral damage is always there. Though the figures being given from inside Afghanistan are exaggerated but there are civilian casualties. We regret that and feel sorry about civilian causalities.”
N. ALLIANCE: About Northern Alliance, the President said it is a grouping of Uzbek, Tajik, Hazaras and Pakhtoon elements and is a marriage of convenience.
“They fought with each other for many years. There is no internal strength in the Alliance. Pakhtoons are always the dominant partners in Afghanistan,” he said.
When asked whether Pakistan created the Taliban, the President said: “It is a fallacy. Taliban are home grown in reaction to the in-fights between the warlords there who butchered each other.”
Another fallacy, the President said, was that Pakistan was providing arms to the Taliban. There were huge left over stocks of every kind of military equipment as the former Soviets had left Afghanistan besides billions of dollars worth equipment pumped in for Afghans to fight against Soviet occupation.
“Unfortunately, these are the fallacies which we could not tackle properly,” the President said.
About the duration of military operation in Afghanistan, Musharraf said it could be completed in few days if the military objectives are achieved.
REHABILITATION: He said the achievement of military objectives in Afghanistan must follow the political process and rehabilitation work in Afghanistan, otherwise there would be vacuum and anarchy.
Iqbal Latif
I live in the SF Bay Area and saw your post this morning... so on the way to work, I listened carefully for any mention of that item and heard nothing even close.
Sara
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