Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Hmmm. So much for the Hummer. How did I get on this thread? Oh yeah. The Tennessee Volunteers. Sometimes you get burnt when you try and help someone. What do I mean? That's just the way it is.
It is a neat vehicle, though. I have had some friends come back from Iraq and give me a report on the quality of the machines. Air conditioned, stable, sure footed. It drives the Iraq insurgents crazy.
I also heard that the people of Iraq are very kind. It is just the slugs (insurgents) that are stirring the turmoil. Imagine that.
Peace. . .hope all is well with all of you.
Jan. 17 - BELLEVUE -- Standing next to his shiny Hummer H2, John Brightbill recounted a perk that a fellow owner noted about driving this immense sport utility vehicle.
"He said some young women wanted to drive around the block with him," said Brightbill, a real estate broker. "That hasn't happened to me yet."
Real estate broker John Brightbill stands beside his Hummer H2. He is considering the tax write-off -- "I've been using it partially for business." Gilbert W. Arias / Seattle Post-Intelligencer
But some people have a more practical reason for laying down $50,000 to $60,000 to buy an H2: a federal tax deduction of nearly $38,000.
"The government is sort of subsidizing people for buying these land yachts," said Henry Pierman, a certified public accountant with Hauser & Associates in Bellevue. "It's one of those odd things that happen. I would say maybe half of the CPAs are aware of this loophole."
In the mid-1980s, he said, Congress tightened rules about how much money can be written off on luxury automobiles used for business -- but excluded vehicles with a gross weight of 6,000 pounds or more, partly an attempt to help farmers afford tractors, large trucks and other heavy equipment.
But many SUVs, including the 6,400-pound H2, fall into that heavyweight category, and now a new class of small-business owners and the self-employed, such as construction company executives, doctors, real estate agents and lawyers, is qualifying for the deduction.
The main requirement, said Pierman, is that people use their SUVs more than 50 percent of the time in their business.
"The soccer mom isn't going to get a write-off for buying one," he said.
The loophole has drawn critics, including Taxpayers for Common Sense, a non-profit group in Washington, D.C.
"You have a litany of these 6,000-pound vehicles that were not originally intended to be deducted," said Aileen Roder, the group's program director. "The original goal was to help family farmers and small businesses who need these vehicles."
Her group estimates that the tax incentive's application to SUVs cost the federal treasury $840 million to $987 million last year.
It's not known just how many buyers of H2s and similar SUVs would qualify for the tax break in Washington state.
But Hummer dealers said that since its debut in July, the H2 has been rolling off their lots in droves and ending up at the homes of professional athletes, doctors and businesspeople.
"For the right people, it's a pretty hefty advantage," said Darrel Landers of Dick Hannah Hummer in Vancouver, referring to the tax incentive.
The state's five dealers in Bellevue, Tacoma, Vancouver, Lynnwood and Spokane have sold more than 450 of the H2s.
"It's as hot as I've ever seen it, and I've been in the business for 40 years," said Brent Barron, a general sales assistant for Osborne McCann Cadillac in Tacoma, which has sold 90 H2s. "I could sell 190 of them if I had them."
"It's outselling any high-end sport utility vehicle," said Bruce Huskinson, product manager for Hummer of Bellevue, which has sold 120.
Several owners and dealers say the H2 is selling so well because it's sporty, stable and more practical for daily use than the larger H1 model. That's not to mention cheaper: The H1 sells for $110,000 to $120,000.
The H2 can come with such high-end features as a built-in telephone and a global positioning satellite system. Dealers also point to its power and climbing ability.
Then there's the tax incentive. Word of the potential savings brought pauses and gasps from some owners. A few joked that they need to chat with their accountants.
Brightbill, the 63-year-old Eastside realty agent, is considering the tax write-off, which he heard about after buying his H2. "I've been using it partially for business," he said.
Brad Sonne, 35, a construction company owner from Mukilteo, said he may qualify for the tax provision, although he bought his H2 for personal use.
"It's just one of the coolest things out there. I don't know how to explain it," he said. "I saw it in an ad in August, and when I saw it, I said, 'That's it.' "
He sees nothing wrong with the tax incentive.
"It's a great deal for construction companies who are buying everyday vehicles for their crew, and where they may have put it off for another year," he said.
"A tax break is a tax break. I don't see anyone complaining about it when it's a tax break for families."
The tax deduction is a combination of rules written in the 1980s and business incentives passed after the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.
Pierman, the Bellevue accountant, calculated the $38,000 deduction by taking an H2 costing $55,000 -- and presuming the buyer falls into a 40 percent tax bracket. Many SUV buyers are in this category, he said.
For 2002, a qualified buyer can take an immediate deduction of $24,000.
After that deduction is taken, about $9,300 can be deducted through a bonus depreciation on capital expenses, part of post-Sept. 11 legislation.
In addition, there's the normal depreciation over five years that can be taken on vehicles used for business. The 20 percent deduction in the first year is taken on the amount left after the $24,000 deduction and the bonus depreciation. That, Pierman said, comes to $4,340.
The total comes to $37,640 that can be deducted in the first year. That would reduce the buyer's income tax by about $15,000, he said.
Other vehicles besides the H2 that qualify for the tax break include the Mercedes-Benz M-Class SUV and Chevrolet Suburban and Tahoe, and some pickup trucks and cargo vans, according to Pierman.
He lamented the attention to the tax incentive.
"I think it's actually bad because Congress may close the loophole," he said. "If they see something that the public sees as 'too good of a thing.' You know, subsidizing gas hogs."
There are also complaints about the H2's fuel economy, about 10 miles per gallon. The Seattle-based Transportation Choices Coalition argues that SUVs contribute a high percentage of greenhouse gas emissions because of their high fuel consumption.
"I think a lot of people aren't aware of the impact on human life and the natural environment," said Peter Hurley, executive director. "Our solution is to design them safer and more efficiently."
Bellevue resident Karen Santa, 46, is aware of that sentiment. Since she switched from driving a Mercedes-Benz and bought her H2 in December, activists have left a note and a bumper sticker on the vehicle.
The sticker read: "With every tank full of gas, we're killing Americans." The note read: "And the reason you bought this gas guzzler . . ."
Still, Santa is pleased with the vehicle's handling, appearance and her global positioning satellite system. She's already taken her H2 off road in the snow and has used it to pull her son in a sled on Crystal Mountain.
"It's a fabulous vehicle. You just push a button and say call home and it calls home," she said of the telephone feature.
Park your Sub at the iHub - Bub; .....the experience might just "...float your boat..." !!!
.
"..................they call me --- MELLOW YELLOW.................
.........................................quite right, ..............SLICK....."!!!
Park your Sub at the iHub - Bub; ....the experience might just "...float your boat..." !!
10-4 on the Mil/Govt funding games. Venture capital is no walk in the park either...!!!
It's nice when things work out for the best, like the Hummer. And, enough to make you want to hit somebody when you end up getting a kludge like the Bradley - that "..burns up like a sparkler upon a direct hit.." in a battle situation. I presume they finally solved that annoying little issue, ha ha ha........
I'm always reminded of the Luckup Corporation's robot jet fighter in the Chevy Chase movie: Deal of the Century. Their electronics would go totally nuts, if they had to fly in the rain....!! "....Doooooooooooooooooh...."!!!
Funds to do testing on some new R&D components I am familiar with came from another US DOE program that "..failed to perform..". The money chase is a game that would drive most folks gray before their time.
I worked on portions of the MX Missile and it's horizontal basing mode's erector-launcher systems for a year and a half. That modality was never adopted, but the "bird" went on to comprise part of our strategic nuclear forces and help bankrupt the Ruskies....
John
Park your Sub at the iHub - Bub; ....the experience might just "...float your boat..." !!
No problem. I was at Fort Sill in Oklahoma when the first models were introduced which is the reason I knew a little about its original purpose. As far as the Gulf war is concerned, they did do O.K. after the air filters were replaced. They had an awful time in the beginning because the sand was getting into the fuel system and causing the engines to die. You are correct about the A to B thing. The Army has a tendancy to produce and then test in the field, then make revisions. I honestly don't think that the funding for the project would have been approved for the HummVee if it was only to be a Jeep replacement. Perhaps the Army just threw the towing of Howitzers in the mix to get the funding, when in fact the were just wanting one bad ass jeep replacement. They have been known to do that in the past. One thing I can say about the vehicle is that it is almost impossible to get stuck. I am certain that those hunters are more than satisfied with its performance. I wonder if they are using a gas or deisel engine. In the beginning, the deisel was the only one available but I understand that both gas and deisel are available in the commercial version.
Disclaimer
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=135097
Hi xx,
Lots of military things start out as an "A" and end up as a "B", i.e. the F-111 swing-wing kludge used against both Quacky Qadaffi and Sadass Hussein ..........
The Hummers certainly seemed to do ok in the Gulf bit.
There's a large private hunting preserve near me, and their primary transporter is a 1/2-cab Hummer with the short pickup box in the back. In all-glossy-black it sure looks slick.
Thanks for the input.
John
Park your Sub at the iHub - Bub; ....the experience might just "...float your boat..." !!
The HumVee was a failure in a sense. Want to know the original purpose for it? It was supposed to be the primary vehicle for towing the 155MM howitzer. As it turns out, something about the height and balance of the vehicle made it unable to pull the howitzer. So the Army decided to turn it into a glorified jeep. A 50 cal can be mounted on the top but alas, it cannot do what it was originally intended to do. It was and still is a bad ass vehicle though. I had a lot of fun trying to tear one up in Georgia a few years back. After many miles of rip roaring, dirt road driving, tree knocking down, sliding around slinging up mud fun, I found it to be a great vehicle for play and extremely durable. Full time four wheel drice, plenty of ground clearance, very fast{we got one on the freeway and it topped out at about 95-100mph) but I still fail to see the military use for it. It can only carry a few people and can only carry a 50 cal. We ended up using them to tow generators. LOL. I guess it turned out to be another deal like the Bradley. The Army spends a mint developing it for a specific purpose. The engineers run amuck and the final product is totally unsuitable for its intended purpose. So I guess the name does fit in a way.
Disclaimer
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=135097
O/T: The value in Laforza is not so much in what is (although they have accomplished a great deal in the last several years), but what will be.
I don't believe I ever suggested it was something you might like, or undertand. I work in R&D, so the steps they are taking make a lot of sense to me.
As with any development company, you have to understand it intimately as it probably won't ring any bells on some T/A system.
John
How can you honestly, with a straight face, push this garbage all over the 'Net?
I just looked at it on a chart. What a disaster.
What's the avg volume on it? 100k? Trades under a penny. We have no idea on SEC filings, finances.
What are you in at?
O/T: There were 25+/- folks at the big auto show in Mexico City recently who offered to buy the Laforza PSV Prototype on the spot for cash.
Mexico City is known as the kidnapping capital of the world, and a dealership will probably be located there soon; so yes - there is quite a big market down that way.
If one has a background in romance languages or likes the Star Wars series, Laforza ("the force") has a certain flare to it. Considering original US brands, it's not to far from the old Cadillac LaSalle, or the Buick LeSabre nomenclature.
Most places I go, a "..hummer.." denotes something that is a failed or wasted effort. But, when one understands the transition from the military designation to HumVee to Hummer and how well the AM General machines perform the previous connotation obviously changes to the positive.
Like Ford vs. Chevy, it's all in what you like, or need; especially at $0.01 per share. With 400+HP and 2400 pounds of cargo capcity, they'll jerk a pretty big Go-Fast out of the pond I understand.
John
Park your Sub at the iHub - Bub; ....the experience might just "...float your boat..." !!
Qua. . .
LMAO! Everyone is saying that. Perhaps, in the future things will change.
Peace,
M&M Man
Seems like a pretty small market.
Are there a lot of Mexican Dons looking to buy unknown, armored, funny-named SUVs.
The Laforza is a niche SUV / PSV (armored), see: http://www.laforza.com More intended for the wealthy industrialist or Mexican Don who might wish to ballance going to the Country Club on a cruddy road in bad weather with bulletproof and anti-kidnapper capability.
It differs from the brute force Hummers with a new Prototype style having similarities to the Jeep Grand Cherokee; Italian glove leather interior, etc.
Kramer would probably like one...................
That red Hummer above would be a nice garage ornament though, wouldn't it...!?!
Regards,
John
Park your Sub at the iHub - Bub; ....the experience might just "...float your boat..." !!
What the heck is a Laforza?
Sounds like a word Kramer on Seinfeld might make up.
Kramer: I just invented a new reclining chair with built in cupholders. I'm calling it the "Laforza!"
So. . .has anyone seen "Laforza" PSVs? Since they aren't in production, I was wondering whether anyone believes they will be able to "dethrone" the Hummer when they do get into production. Can anyone explain how Hummer can fall to a Laforza? Laforza could be a great take at a penny. . .if their management can do something with the company. So far, however, that has not been a proven ability of Laforza's leadership. Now, look at Hummer. Go out on the streets and do a simple study. Ask who has heard of a Hummer (ten people that know about SUVs) and ask the same sample who have heard about Laforza. Then, call the company and ask who is giving out cash for Laforza to survive.
Man. . .shoulda bought that Hummer back in 00'! :)
Peace,
M&M Man
Followers
|
1
|
Posters
|
|
Posts (Today)
|
0
|
Posts (Total)
|
16
|
Created
|
07/29/02
|
Type
|
Premium
|
Moderators |
Volume | |
Day Range: | |
Bid Price | |
Ask Price | |
Last Trade Time: |