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Carl on CNBC Alpha conference talked about HLF
Carl bought 2 million shares because it Ackman made it $10 cheaper.
Carl was a Fuller Brush salesman (it's personal). He says HLF has real products and person-to-person works.
US sales that will be regulated, is already assumed.
The sales outside the country aka China is still growing without the regulation
Carl says Ackman is a fool (paraphrased) for him to be so concentrated, with so many shares shorted as a percentage of float.
Ackmann has really lost respect IMO . I like the guy, he's an amazing sales person , very controlled and persuasive , but unfortunately the boy that cried wolf is now his brand . Him doing it under the banner of " consumer protection " is even more shameful as he was short upwards of $1b at points. Not sure where his true position is currently , or if he was able to unwind some of it, but his antics have certainly besmirched his rep.
We want that real estate in California near the beach lets put this pig to rest.. HLF GOING DOWN SOON!
SHADY ACCOUNTING PRACTICES HAPPENING HERE!
CARL ICHAN IS PROPPING UP HLF NOW LOL! HE'LL PULL THE RUG OUT AND SUCK EVERYONE IN> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/herbalife-shares-jump-as-carl-icahn-adds-to-his-position-2016-08-29?siteid=bulletrss
He toyed with Ackman, knowing that his group approaching him to flirt with the idea of purchasing some shares would result in exactly what happened. Ackman like a little boy at the candy shop runs off to Mommy(CNBC) to make a big stink. Stocks dip, sleezeball Icahn scoops...
oops, I was wrong, apparently he did buy Friday
http://www.streetinsider.com/13Ds/Carl+Icahn+Bought+2.3M+Herbalife+%28HLF%29+Shares+Friday%2C+Rips+Bill+Ackman/11978318.html
Carl Icahn disclosed after the close Friday that he added to his Herbalife (NYSE: HLF) stake. This follows reports he was looking to shop his stake.
Icahn bought 2.3 million shares, all Friday. Icahn said contrary to what Bill Ackman stated on television, he never gave Jefferies an order to sell any of his Herbalife shares. He said Mr. Ackman has developed a very bad case of “Herbalife obsession”.
The latest purchase brings Mr. Icahn's stake in HLF to 19,304,683 shares, or 20.78%.
Commenting on the added stake purchase, Icahn said:
"Over the years many investment bankers, including Jefferies, that specialize in block trades frequently make bids for our large positions. But completely contrary to what Bill Ackman stated on television today, I have never given Jefferies an order to sell any of our Herbalife shares. Last month we publicly disclosed that Herbalife granted us permission to go up to 35%. At the time of the disclosure, Ackman declared that I have no interest in increasing my position in Herbalife. This was obviously another misstatement of the facts by Ackman since today I bought another 2.3 million shares. I continue to believe in Herbalife: it’s a great model that creates a great number of jobs for people. Ackman may be a smart guy but he has clearly succumbed to the same dangerous (and sometimes fatal) malady that afflicts many investors – he’s developed a very bad case of “Herbalife obsession”. Obsessions concerning the value of stocks are the undoing of many investors because they often blind you to the facts, and it becomes impossible to see the forest for the trees. Watching Ackman on television today is a perfect example of this “obsession”. A month ago he declared that I’d never buy more Herbalife stock, which obviously turned out to be completely wrong. Today, he said I’m done with my Herbalife investment and that I’m a seller. Obviously wrong, again. It amazes me that a guy who hasn’t any knowledge of my internal investment thinking believes he is in a position to go on television to tell the world what I AM thinking! Amazing! He has no right to do so, and even worse, I’m sure his unsubstantiated, obsessive comments, especially about Herbalife, have cost investors a great deal of money over the last few years."
Meanwhile, Herbalife CEO, Michael O. Johnson, said: “We appreciate the support of all of our investors and are particularly grateful to Carl Icahn and the conviction he shares, and continues to show in our business, as demonstrated by today’s significant increase in his stake in the Company."
The way I read it. Carl bought the additional shares before Friday. Perhaps he didn't know how many shares he had because his people bought them.
There was even discussion that he even sold the shares after hours on Friday with his own news. But I doubt it.
What a scumbag...purposely getting some bad news out there so he can scoop up for 10% less...Pure SCUM...
Drama by Carl and Ackman..they are friends secretly.
Retail investors are going to loose more..
Herbalife Carl Icahn Fires Back In Statement to Bill Ackman. Feud continues! read the statement here
after hours bite me from carl
http://carlicahn.com/carl-icahn-issues-statement-regarding-herbalife/
nice looking at the last close premiums on the Call/Put at a strike of $87, you're already up over $2.60 a share premarket!
Yup. It's all manipulated, so gotta play it that way. Options and the law of averages. BABA strangle today for earnings tomorrow morning. Doesn't matter which way the stock moves, win win either way. Just be sure to go far enough out, take a little piece, tiny risk. Just take a little piece on every trade. Glty!
HERBALIFE DOCUMENTARY FINANCIER REVEALED – AND IT'S NOT BILL ACKMAN -http://bit.ly/2aWNHPV
When is this thing going back to $50s where it belongs!
You're definitely right there & I've dabbled withe strangles too, great way to limit exposure to the market. My point is the numbers released had so many holes in it & now i know the media is in on the scam as the WSJ, Reuters, Market Watch all report the news like its 100% positive...
you cant beat the street - all you can do is play with them. the results after earnings often dont make sense, so just play the spreads. glty!
"Earnings were $1.29 a share, excluding some items, the Los Angeles-based company said on Wednesday after the market closed"
How is this even legal? Reported a $22 million net lost in the quarter, but is in the green earnings per share?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-03/herbalife-beats-estimates-as-it-works-to-rebound-from-ftc-probe
SCAM
I just trade option strangles before earnings, so i dont care what the reports end up saying. I sell way out of the money puts and calls - take the typical earnings gap x2 both ways. works like a charm. next day those options are worthless and i buy them back for a few cents. Good luck to ya!
Well all their estimates for Q3 are well below analyst predictions. The new FTC rules wouldn't kick in till now, so we won't see its effects state side till Q4 probably.
Still calling for a drop below $60 EOM.
Nah, people expected worse news is all
SCAM! lost money in the 2Q but somehow all other numbers in the green & beats estimates??? Shady accounting practice!
SO FTC comes out and says Herbalife is everything that falls into the category of a Pyramid Scheme & claims they did not claim it not to be one. Just as long as they pay a $200 million dollar fine and change their ways going forward...What happens when a Pyramid Scheme can't operate like one anymore? I'm no fan of Ackman, but I have a feeling he's going to be on the winning side of this bet when its all said & done.
lets us shake a few bones
Many skeletons in the closet here
we at the club--think its got a life
help needed from other I-HUBBERS
Ackman Is a Great Example
Of a common cognitive bias....being overconfident. The confirmation bias - the tendency to give too much weight to information that is consistent with a prior belief and too little weight to information at odds with the prior belief - was also a likely cause of his failure to change his opinion and his short position.
Though his long-term record of annualized returns of >20% per year is admirable he came to believe too much in his own ability and too little in the role that good luck may have played in his past performance.
Very few people have the ability to avoid the many cognitive flaws that afflict most of us. What this has revealed is that Ackman does not have a sound process at the base of his investment decision making.
Trendliner
Herbalife: Profound victory for HLF - Pivotal Research
This is a total victory for Herbalife shareholders and a total defeat for the short camp. Leaving aside the potential for a short squeeze that could take the stock to breathtaking levels in the short run, they believe the deal with the FTC is effectively the "all-clear" for HLF and indeed, USANA Health Sciences (USNA -- BUY - $122.26) PT $160; and Nu Skin Enterprises (NUS -- BUY - $49.91) PT $60. Thus they expect the stock to re-price rather rapidly to the $80-$100 level.
Short short short
Cya at low 60s
Herbalife to Pay $200 Million Over Claims of Misrepresentation
Friday 15 July 2016
Herbalife Ltd. is to pay $200 million in a settlement with the Federal Trade Commission that will enable the company to avoid being classified as a pyramid scheme, a victory in its long-running battle with activist investor William Ackman.
The settlement, expected to be announced Friday, is a dramatic twist in one of Wall Street's biggest fights in recent years. It could worsen a dismal stretch for Mr. Ackman's Pershing Square Capital Management LP.
The settlement will require the nutritional-products company to improve disclosures about its distributors, according to people familiar with the matter. It also will tie distributor compensation to actual retail sales and force the company to collect receipts, the people said.
That will force the company to prove it has underlying users who drink its protein shakes, something it hasn't disclosed and that was at the crux of the debate that Mr. Ackman stoked about its business model.
But while those agreements will cause shifts in its business, and possibly across the direct-selling industry, the FTC isn't accusing it of being the kind of fraudulent scheme Mr. Ackman and others have claimed for nearly four years.
Shares of Herbalife, up nearly 13% over the past year, rose 5.1% to $62.38 in premarket trading.
Ackman has long called Herbalife a pyramid scheme.
Ackman took a short position on the company more than three years ago. In May, he told CNBC that his bet against the company is roughly $1 billion. He also advised Herbalife employees to leave the company because it's "not going to be a good thing on your resume" and to "go find another job."
Ahead of Ackman's Thursday appearance, Herbalife told CNBC that "it has been three years and [Ackman] has lost hundreds of millions of dollars. He admitted in the Fortune piece that it as costing him more than 100 million a year in carrying cost. When is it time to just say he gave it a valiant try but like Borders, J.C. Penney, Target, he was just misinformed?"
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/15/ftc-determines-herbalife-is-not-a-pyramid-scheme-dj.html
HLF not a pyramid scheme says FTC. Music to my ears.
bill ackman is having some bad luck lately
first vrx and now hlf
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/15/ftc-determines-herbalife-is-not-a-pyramid-scheme-dj.html
looks like Ichan wants to squeeze Ackerman - big time.
35% purchase by Ichan would send HLF through the roof and almost destroy Ackerman.
this is corporate warfare - a clash of titans.
high drama here.
$HLF
Just went $68. Safest with this is not to touch it either way now.
I'm not dumb enough to short it... It's a no touch Blocking out the noise on both sides and HLF is a dog anyways...
Something tells me that when they have to prove retail sales it will be problematic. I mean they just received a record fine of $200m... That's not for nothing... Think they doubled the previous record.
You sound like Bill Ackman
Almost seems like a smart short from these levels. The company is garbage anyways... I wouldn't touch it either way
News out. Not pyramid scheme. Flying $60+
Only a matter of time before the hammer comes down on hlf
They are running the stock up on rumors of a FTC settlement. Look for a big drop on the news. As the old saying goes: Buy on the rumor and sell on the news.
HLF - Ouch! Ackman is allegedly still holding tight. Wonder what his capital looks like today?
Hope Bill is still not short here
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MULTILEVEL MARKETING /\
Herbalife Ltd. (Herbalife) is a global network marketing company that sells weight management, nutritional supplements, energy, sports and fitness products and personal care products through a network of approximately 2.3 million independent distributors, except in China, where the Company sells its products through retail stores.
The Company is a network marketing company that sells a range of weight management products, nutritional supplements and personal care products. As of March 31, 2011, the Company sold products in 75 countries throughout the world. Herbalife’s products are grouped in four principal categories: weight management, targeted nutrition, energy, sports and fitness and Outer Nutrition, along with literature and promotional items. As of December 31, 2010, Herbalife marketed and sold 126 products encompassing over 4,000 stock keeping units (SKUs) through its distributors.
http://www.google.com/finance?q=HLFaa
INVESTOR ACKMAN TRIES WEEKLY TO CONDEMN $HLF BUT FAILS /\ 07-22-14
RECENT MEMO BY HIM FAILURE IN HIS CONFERENCE TO PROVE $HLF IN A SCAM/FRAUD
$HLF DUE DILIGENCE/
recent news/filings
## source: finance.yahoo.com
Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:22:32 GMT ~ Corrections & Amplifications
[at The Wall Street Journal] - Corrections & Amplifications for the edition of July 24, 2014
read full: http://online.wsj.com/articles/correctionsamplifications-1406141673?ru=yahoo?mod=yahoo_itp
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Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:32:19 GMT ~ What Wall Street is missing about Herbalife
[Talking Numbers] - http://l.yimg.com/os/en-US/video/video.pd2upload.com/video.tncnbc.com@a877f29f-9d9e-3a35-aaa3-d939f0229cf4_FULL.jpeg" rel="nofollow">http://l.yimg.com/hv/api/res/1.2/EYCldk06bPOHRaDXZQsdIQ--/YXBwaWQ9eWZpbmFuY2U7aD0zMTt3PTQy/http://l.yimg.com/os/en-US/video/video.pd2upload.com/video.tncnbc.com@a877f29f-9d9e-3a35-aaa3-d939f0229cf4_FULL.jpeg
read full: http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/talking-numbers/what-wall-street-is-missing-about-herbalife-193219652.html
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Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:24:12 GMT ~ Is Herbalife A Pyramid Scheme Or Just Another MLM?
read full: http://seekingalpha.com/article/2334485-is-herbalife-a-pyramid-scheme-or-just-another-mlm?source=yahoo
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Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:53:54 GMT ~ Ackman's clients shrug off Herbalife embarrassment
read full: http://www.cnbc.com/id/101860725?__source=yahoo%7cfinance%7cheadline%7cheadline%7cstory&par=yahoo&doc=101860725
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Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:51:00 GMT ~ This Might Be Bill Ackman's Real Plan To Take Down Herbalife
read full: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/might-bill-ackmans-real-plan-185100406.html
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$HLF charts
basic chart ## source: stockcharts.com
basic chart ## source: eoddata.com
big daily chart ## source: stockcharts.com
big weekly chart ## source: stockcharts.com
## source: otcmarkets.com
Link: http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/HLF/company-info
Ticker: $HLF
OTC Market Place: Not Available
CIK code: 0001180262
Company name: Herbalife Ltd.
Incorporated In: Cayman Islands
$HLF share structure
## source: otcmarkets.com
Market Value: $6,485,857,406 a/o Jul 23, 2014
Shares Outstanding: 98,107,055 a/o Apr 23, 2014
Float: Not Available
Authorized Shares: Not Available
Par Value: No Par Value
$HLF extra dd links
Company name: Herbalife Ltd.
## STOCK DETAILS ##
After Hours Quote (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/after-hours
Option Chain (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/option-chain
Historical Prices (yahoo.com): http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=HLF+Historical+Prices
Company Profile (yahoo.com): http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=HLF+Profile
Industry (yahoo.com): http://finance.yahoo.com/q/in?s=HLF+Industry
## COMPANY NEWS ##
Market Stream (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/stream
Latest news (otcmarkets.com): http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/HLF/news - http://finance.yahoo.com/q/h?s=HLF+Headlines
## STOCK ANALYSIS ##
Analyst Research (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/analyst-research
Guru Analysis (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/guru-analysis
Stock Report (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/stock-report
Competitors (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/competitors
Stock Consultant (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/stock-consultant
Stock Comparison (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/stock-comparison
Investopedia (investopedia.com): http://www.investopedia.com/markets/stocks/HLF/?wa=0
Research Reports (otcmarkets.com): http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/HLF/research
Basic Tech. Analysis (yahoo.com): http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ta?s=HLF+Basic+Tech.+Analysis
Barchart (barchart.com): http://www.barchart.com/quotes/stocks/HLF
DTCC (dtcc.com): http://search2.dtcc.com/?q=Herbalife+Ltd.&x=10&y=8&sp_p=all&sp_f=ISO-8859-1
Spoke company information (spoke.com): http://www.spoke.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=Herbalife+Ltd.
Corporation WIKI (corporationwiki.com): http://www.corporationwiki.com/search/results?term=Herbalife+Ltd.&x=0&y=0
## FUNDAMENTALS ##
Call Transcripts (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/call-transcripts
Annual Report (companyspotlight.com): http://www.companyspotlight.com/library/companies/keyword/HLF
Income Statement (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/financials?query=income-statement
Revenue/EPS (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/revenue-eps
SEC Filings (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/sec-filings
Edgar filings (sec.gov): http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?action=getcompany&CIK=0001180262&owner=exclude&count=40
Latest filings (otcmarkets.com): http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/HLF/filings
Latest financials (otcmarkets.com): http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/HLF/financials
Short Interest (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/short-interest
Dividend History (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/dividend-history
RegSho (regsho.com): http://www.regsho.com/tools/symbol_stats.php?sym=HLF&search=search
OTC Short Report (otcshortreport.com): http://otcshortreport.com/index.php?index=HLF
Short Sales (otcmarkets.com): http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/HLF/short-sales
Key Statistics (yahoo.com): http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=HLF+Key+Statistics
Insider Roster (yahoo.com): http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ir?s=HLF+Insider+Roster
Income Statement (yahoo.com): http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=HLF
Balance Sheet (yahoo.com): http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=HLF
Cash Flow (yahoo.com): http://finance.yahoo.com/q/cf?s=HLF+Cash+Flow&annual
## HOLDINGS ##
Major holdings (cnbc.com): http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/HLF/tab/8.1
Insider transactions (yahoo.com): http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=HLF+Insider+Transactions
Insider transactions (secform4.com): http://www.secform4.com/insider-trading/HLF.htm
Insider transactions (insidercrow.com): http://www.insidercow.com/history/company.jsp?company=HLF
Ownership Summary (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/ownership-summary
Institutional Holdings (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/institutional-holdings
Insiders (SEC Form 4) (nasdaq.com): http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/HLF/insider-trades
Insider Disclosure (otcmarkets.com): http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/HLF/insider-transactions
## SOCIAL MEDIA AND OTHER VARIOUS SOURCES ##
PST (pennystocktweets.com): http://www.pennystocktweets.com/stocks/profile/HLF
Market Watch (marketwatch.com): http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/HLF
Bloomberg (bloomberg.com): http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/HLF:US
Morningstar (morningstar.com): http://quotes.morningstar.com/stock/s?t=HLF
Bussinessweek (businessweek.com): http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot_article.asp?ticker=HLF
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