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No, I say since the trees exist, it is axiomoronic to say the burden of proof is on detractors to prove fraud. It is always the burden of proof on the entity charging fraud to prove it. Where is the fraud?
Why so many on the board? Off Topic in the MOD handbook:
Posts not about the topic of the board including other stocks or companies.
Posts about or focusing on other Members or groups of people and their reasons for posting on the board (i.e. "XYZDownDaDrain" is just a basher, ignore him", "XYZToDaMoon" is a pumper", "the naysayers are very loud today", "c'mon, where did all the cheerleaders go?"). The post does not have to be addressed to a specific person. If the post is about other Users then it should be removed.
Posts with religious or political statements should be removed as "off topic". These inevitably create an avalanche of replies that are off topic as well.
Posts about MODERATORS and/or DELETIONS are also "off topic".
Issues of this nature need to be discussed with a Site Admin.
Putting "ot" at the beginning of a post does not make it acceptable. It is still off topic and eligible for removal.
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Mods edit out "noise": those are postings that in the case of this board are of no useful info to tree owners ;in the off topic category. These are just the off topic issues. How this is done is that if something is off topic in your message, the whole message gets removed, sorry if 99% is not removable by itself and that one little sentence wipes out everything.
I believe you already know TATF is owned by Steve Brunner. The forrester was from switzerland, or was european and had gone to a swiss college,.. Probably easier for you to ask Steve to give you his email address to write and ask him questions if you plan on buying any trees..
Give us the names of the forrester and the land owner so we can talk to them.
Read post 122. Everything you post is unverifiable.
Absolutely there is proof that tree owners will reap big rewards when every treeowner sees his own trees growing and dollar bills in the lumber? Everyone who has gone to see their own trees has seen that they have trees that will big in big money at final harvest!
The statement of fact that "all tree owners will reap big rewards" should be challanged because there is no proof that that will ever happen. Hasn't happened yet and there is absolutley no proof that it will happen in the future. The TATF website makes a lot of projections that have not been met. This company does nothing to make anyone believe there will be big rewards coming from TATF for any treeowners. I do not believe anything that Steve told you.
Verifiable? Do you challenge the fact that tree owner's trees exist? That all tree owners will reap big rewards? What verification are you talking about, over what?
No response to post 122 asking you for verifiable information about
TATF activity. Not possible?
I don't need to really, i spoke to the forrest land owner, saw the farms(some) hiked through them, examined them for thinning and proper spacing, talked to the educated, experienced, professional forresters and made my decision that owning trees being cared for by TATF was a wonderful way to make lots of money!
Hi all,
Looks like nothing has really changed!!
Has anyone heard if there is any thinning going on on the farms in this dry season?
Not really a sign of a well run company that investors have to resort to a discussion form to get info on their investments, and boy is that info dodgy! (what was all that about tatf selling the farms?)
I have being trying to contact the farms by email, and phone to see what is going on and nothing.
I have repeatedly sent emails requesting that my trees be thinned at MY expense and have had the following responses:
I emailed TATF on the
19th feb 2010
13th April 2010
14th May 2010
1 June 2010
2 July 2010
5th July 2010 got a response saying that there was a TON coming out soon and to get back in touch after I have read it and see what I wanted to do.
I responed on the
30 July 2010 asking to tell me how much it would cost, no response so i emailed again on the
21 Sep 2010
22 dec 2010
21 Jan 2011
That is a lot of silence! with me offering to send funds to them to thin my trees for the good of the remianing trees.
Very difficuly to feel comfortable with this investment.
Anyone got any pre thinning reports this year yet?
Regards,
Paul.
Note that the moderator did not respond to the request for verifiable information to back up his claims about TATF.
BFLwrote >>,"In other words, STEVE and SHERRY were knowingly"<<
taking advantage
>."us from the start. You can say that everyone should have read the full contract before signing and you would be correct. Eventhough it sometimes causes pain, stupidity is not a crime. But, someone who writes a contract and knows that it is not enforceable (according to you)yet still presents it to potential investors as legal and binding is a CROOK. Someone who is still doing the same thing is a CROOK. Someone who still posts knowingly false projections on their unaccountable website in an attempt to lure in more unsuspecting investors is a CROOK."<<
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No i don't think so. I believe Steve will honour all the contracts.
Duped you write "Steve has only to abide by what is written in my spanish written contract."
So you got an special written contract that no other has received!
LOL!!!
I was reading the agreement and i don't think a lot of treeowners noticed the #23-25 part of the agreement. They explain that word of mouth does not mean anything and neither does the TATF website.. Steve has only to abide by what is written in my spanish written contract. I knew that. I signed it because TATF is going to make me money.
I would buy some trees owners trees "on the stump" when harvest time comes but being as "real tree owners" have confirmed no tree care, no workers, no farm activity,no tatf office. Even if most of your trees do exist which I highly doubt they are probably low quality/very little value. Improper tree care =low quality
Like I said in other forum, have shares in a timber company or grow your own trees or face this nightmare everytime.
I-am astonished that you-have not-tried to contact steve personally about your lack of being able to get your trimming payouts. When are your trees to be final harvested, about 3 years? I would give the trees more time as with the world recession just easing, it would be wise to send steve more money to hold off the harvest.
You too, may not have seen that i was quickly going through europe. I did not spend 2 nights in the same country and was unable to talk to fellow treeowners with the short timeframework. I wish i had, the wonderful stories of how Steve and TAFT were propelling all treeowners up in the world when their very own trees were harvested would have been so inspiring. CR likewise was a whirlwind of activity, the farms were magnificent!
You should pay more attention to the postings on this site and the other one. The owner initially made all of those wonderful promises to each and every one of us. The promises have not been met. Almost 17 years and I still have not received one penny. The letters that you read....for the first several years I would have written a wonderful, glowing letter about TATF and their wonderful owners. In fact, one of the letters that you viewed might have been mine. But, after waiting all of this time and receiving no payments from TATFand seeing that TATF continues to post knowingly false projections on their website, I do not believe one thing that Steve, Sherry and TATF have to say. Steve and Sherry have both looked me in the eye and told me that all of the wonderful things that they were saying would come true in the time frame that was projected. I am still waiting for that to happen. I hope that Steve holds to the promises that he has made to you. I will believe what they have to say when I have a check in my hand, it actually clears the bank and I have the money in my hand. Until then I do not believe anything that anyone representing TATF has to say. I know that receiving an actual check from TATF still does not mean that you will get any money. I do not have any faith in Steve and Sherry living up to their end of the bargain. I hope that it works out better for you. I no longer count on TATF as part of my retirement plan. Instead, I have become part of Steve and Sherry's retirement plan. I do not mind them profiting from me, but I want them to hold up their end of the deal. They have not done this yet and I no longer expect them to. By continuing to knowingly post the totally false projections on their website, I no longer believe that I will receive any return on my investment with TATF. As I have stated previously, I bought trees very early in the life of TATF. If people have been paid I should be close to the front of the line. Until I actually have money in my hand, I too am duped by Steve, as are we all. I include you in this group. Good luck to you in your dealings with this company. I hope that after 17 more years with this company you have money in your hand. I have been with for almost 17 years now and I do not expect to have anything from them even if I wait another 17 years.
I fail to see any contradictory postings, unless by that you mean that when i get reliable new information i may change my mind about a belief i hold. I used to believe TATF was a scam until i received seemingly incontrovertible proof that it is a great professionally run venture!
Your posts contradict themselves. Any reader who goes back to your posts on http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.aspx?board_id=7823
will know your information is not reliable, to say the least.
All genuine investors in TATF have been bilked by this company.
You have not been reading my postings? I am not an "investor" but a tree owner whose trees are being taken care of by TATF on TATF properties. I realise that most treeowners are happy treowners who are all extremely satisfied with the professional way in which TATF is caring for their trees. Many send e-mails to TATF in appreciation and Steve allowed me to read some in the files. Of course these treeowners had given express permission for the showing and the identifying names, addresses had been marked out by several differeng markers. That and that some were longhand and i could see had different styles and penmenship convinces me the letters were genuine.
Happy treeowners do not go looking for message boards. A tiny fraction, less than 2% in total have even signed in to comment on the boards. If that means, with the few happy ones have found the board, then 99% of TATF treeowners are extremely happy with TATF.
BTW, when i met Steve he told me there are now 3371 treeowners!
What verifiable information can you give us about TATF?
Of the seven investors who have spoken on your forum all are negative about TATF. Since you, admittedly, are not an investor, and only you are positive, and you moderate the board, what verifable information can you give us about TATF? (something to back up your and Brunner's claims, something that one of us could check out)
On the other ihub board (now compelled by mysterious forces to be inactive) there were over 70 negative posters and virtually no positive ones. This board thus far is mirroring the other one with its pervading theme that Mr. Brunner's company has become a scam.
On both boards your supportive statements have all consisted of generalities and could have been written as advertisements for TATF.
belmontx
Yes to everything except i do not know if Steve is in CR. Of course i do not have first-hand knowledge but i am sure from understanding Steve's heart and mind that all is well with every tree owners trees.
"Have he and his employees returned from Monaco? Are they still in business and accepting new money for trees? Are they answering current investor inquiries and are they thinning trees? Is his health allowing wholesome and honest accounting to his investors?"
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Yes to everything except i do not know if Steve is in CR.
Have he and his employees returned from Monaco? Are they still in business and accepting new money for trees? Are they answering current investor inquiries and are they thinning trees? Is his health allowing wholesome and honest accounting to his investors? Is the Pope Jewish?
Most tree owners are very well satisfied with TATF. I see no reason to involve the FBI, CR has their own laws and courts and we all signed that document saying that a CR court has jurisdiction. It was near the end of my agreement. I have great faith in Steve as a good tree farmer who is fulfilling his tree owners dreams of profit. That 6% charge is not too much to pay for all that TATF does.
It is obvious that there is deception going on here by more than just the owner of TATF.
It is vital that investors file their reports with the FBI. The accumulation of reports will trigger their action.
Report at http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx
Mamy fine people at TATF could be hurt as well in any FBI investigation, the farm workers will suffer, and the fact is everyone's trees are there.
I beg to differ about getting the fbi involved. This will drive down interest in buying lumber from TATF and hurt all of our treeowners here on the board. Many rumours might cause furniture makers to stop dealing with TATF. I beg to differ with the entire message i am replying to Belmont.
Ok, Guys/Girls, this may well get the board taken by Ihub. We all know what happened to the other board because members violated TOS. We all should know that the rules about posting about deletions, speculating about other posters, calling posters bashers are hypers, personal insults even if not directly directed at the other ihub member, off topic timber, these are postings that get removed even if 99% of the entire message are brilliant timber knowledge.I am posting altogether too many such messages as this one i just did.
I can try to save some by editing and reposting i feel is worth saving but why can't adults live by and edit themselves? If i have to send to ihub admin these deletions, this won't be a board that you will see around very long. You could see abvgn trying to save the other board while several headstrong posters continued along brazenly posting offtopic or personal attacks. A link to something a poster posted.
Internet fraud complaint link: www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx
Hello Fawtc- They are collecting facts and is important for all investors to report their shortcomings as it is to FBI so they can proceed for the good of each victim and right the wrong that has occured. It appears that TATFs Sherry and Steve have recessed to the campo real? And are not in San jose? Cost savings?
I will delete any message that attacks any other poster personally, is so off topic as to create a nuisance thread of posts, and Ihub admin will delete duplicate accounts and occasionally have even showed up here to delete some messages i did not get deleted because of my days other activities. We are all living by the skin of our teeth on having this board continued by IHUB. I do not delete your messages for having an opposing point of view on TATf:only please remember to counter my message with one of your own that:
if you even mention deletions, speculations about people posting who are not company owners or their workers, if you post any obscenities, and by ihub rules that includes the &*^%$ symbols then those postings are gone even if the rest of the post would solve world hunger and mankind's wars.
In the yellow sticky post you will find the hyperlink to Ihub Terms of service on what gets deleted.
Does anyone receive any info from the FBI about their TATF complaints?
Let us know if you can talk with anyone.
We also have been getting the answering machine.
To my surprise all the phones including the one I had as direct contact (Steve') to he office are directed to the answering machine, then I tried all others numbers and various faxes, we could not get anyone.
The main office number I was given by the office manager is 506 256 5161. The other ones are the same as posted in the webpage.
I just called the TATF office in Costa Rica. The phone was answered by the machine.
WHICH PART Duped DOES NOT UNDERSTAND, THAT:
1) I am Costa Rica now, there is no one at the TATF claimed address of business.
2) Business has stopped operations. TATF is kaput, niet TAFT kapot, zippo, cero, niente!!!
They are answering the phone today too. Last night i left a message saying i was a present timber investor and first thing this morning i got a return call asking if i needed any help or information. I asked if there was any problem about the phones, and they said the night guard had inadvertantly shut off the machine on saturday. They assured me the office staff was back to work today and the farms were being tended.
Why sue a company that is going to enrich everyone after they get their very own trees harvested? TATF will meet all the expectations we had when we bought our trees. This is a really, really, really good investment!
It is fact TATF shut down operations.
I doubt you got an answer on a Saturday.
Since when there are people answering phones Saturdays?
Really, let us know when you can get a real person to answer your call.
We might get something going since TATF sold products that were called to be fitted for IRA in the USA.
Now, anyone who got IRA TATF trees will need to initiate the legal claim.
"You said you called yesterday!" I did. I called tonight and got an answering machine.
Hello Mr. John *****, how are you? Hope fine. I’m Maria ****, I work for CINDE, the investment promotion agency of Costa Rica. Regarding your question,
any legal contract in Costa Rica has to be in Spanish. But maybe your lawyer can help you facilitating an exact English version for you.
If you have any additional doubt, let me know.
Hold-the-Horses, TATF-still in business! TATF is sorry that phone service was interrupted and offices are staffed again as usual. I was correct, the staff were called to Monaco, everything is fine with TATF and the farms are in TATF hands and control.
Goodby Everyone, The-TATF company-dissolving has ended further speculation about TATF.
I would not, unless i consulted someone in the know. It might be that anyone might say i would be somewhat responsible if the news of TATF put someone in the frame of mind to do harm to steve and i contributed before a cooling off period.
How could telling us how to contact Steve and Sherry possibly get you in trouble in court? I am not an attorney but telling us how to contact to Steve and Sherry could not be an illegal action.
That could be dicey for me to answer in court. I suppose though that if you set your mind to it you might logically come up with a way to find out.
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I am not an investment professional and any comments i make are only my opinion and belief.
Herein you must make your own judgements. I suggest you read sbrunner postings on another board. It will take a little while ... Then you will have a clearer idea of why i think other "posters" are misguided in their assessment of TATf. Besides i saw the farms, read letters, know that thinnings don't amount to a hill of beans and that the only basis i have is that the trees exist, they are growing and being cared for now some 20 years almost since steve started this business, and there is no real reason to suppose that a man who has 2.2 million trees of his own is interested in making 3350 enemies for what is peanuts in his holdings.
I have decided That CLOSING the board is necessary because too many were complaining about my moderating noise out of the forum. It gets very old explaining that talking about deletions on the board is automatically going to get the post deleted. I attempted to put in Knowledgable assistants so they could understand by reading the deletions that a few posters were posting personal attacks and thinking i as the moderator would stand still for that.
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