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Re: terryels post# 79023

Tuesday, 11/30/2010 6:38:02 PM

Tuesday, November 30, 2010 6:38:02 PM

Post# of 312015
In response:

OK, I can agree with you on the commercial production. THe lab setup was a science experiment as what they have now is a prototype. Agreed. It is a commercial prototype.

However, I do think that it is lacking in the kind of documentation that can support wide deployment, namely a set of Design Drawings. Do you agree?

Do they need to be Outdoors? I think the question is, do they NEED to be Indoors? Being Indoors is a huge cost factor which should be avoided if at all possible. The equipment that makes up these systems is built to take all ranges of temperatures and environments. As for your comment about regulating, being in room temperature is usually not a requirement. Usually, ambient temperature does not matter. I would compare it to my car, which finds it's temperature naturally (regulating..)., my knowledge is limited in term sof Process Engineering so maybe you are the expert.

But I did work in a place that regularly deployed systems with structures, and space is always a concern. You don't want anything new to take up any more space in terms of footprint than necessary. Over times these sites get quite cramped. Having a dedicated building in NY is costly and not the norm.

Here is a para. from the Envion site:


The Envion unit is assembled on a single mobile base platform with dimensions 47 feet x 13 feet (14.3 meters x 4 meters). In most cases, virtually no civil engineering is required for installation. Scaling up of production capacity only involves the installation of additional reactors, not entire systems. Unit operation requires non-skilled or low-skilled labor, further reducing the operating cost.

It gives the footprint and addresses constructability. Civil Engineering usually IS very important, so this is addressed.

I know the processes are different. I don't even know what a "reactor" is, so there is no way I can compare the two from a process standpoint.

The relevant factors wrt Outside/Inside are:
- how much human interdiction is required?
- what ambient temperature is required?
- does the environment allow for a building?
- Cost

In looking at the above list, I would say Human Interdicton is the biggest consideration. In both of these systems (Evnion, JBI) human interdiction is minimal. There is a Control Panel in each which required monitoring, but that does not need to be inside. The other interaction is a loading of plastic. The Envion unit obviously has the same requirement and it is outside, otherwise I would say that the JBI system doe snot need to be indoors.

The other issue is the Solid Waste Management issue. It appears as if JBI needs to have a building to properly control SW investory. I have posted previously on this. IF that is the case, it would appear as if the unit may as well be inside, or at least the majority of it be inside along with the SW.

I think that Envion has solved this problem of permitting by locating their machine on landfills that have existing permits, hence they don't have to worry about it.

If it were not for the SW issue, I would say that there is no reason for the jBI system to be indoors, and that it should be similar to the Enviion system. The SW permit is another angle altogether.

Thoughts??




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