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"$20M-$30M is all that's provable here"
And that- is the key factor- Thank you Hotmeat.
There's nothing wrong with hoping for more folks, we all do that. But HPYING more serves no beneficial purpose. The only beneficial purpose constant hyping of huge numbers and that it will occur right around the corner (always) could possibly serve is if one works for Investors Hub and is getting paid to keep people glued to the website.
Just because thats exactly what has happened every one of the past nine years, what makes you think that'll happen again this year?!?!?
....oh yeah, sanity.
Thanks to all of the posters in 2018 for all you do! Everyone from Hotmeat to AZ and everyone in between. All your opinions vary greatly, but at least you do the dd to the best of each of your abilities, benefiting posters such as myself who received educations in other areas not related to finance or law.
Unfortunately, to everyone's surprise and disappointment, we are still here, waiting. Three years ago no one would have imagined this. And frankly I think we'll be right here next year. I am limited to one post per day now because I let someone get to me and I posted immaturely. But sadly I dont think I'll be missing much as I start to check in less often. There was a time I was really counting on escrows, I see now I must move on because they may fail to come to fruituon.
Best to all in 2019. Me.... I plan to make other plans.
Peace-
AT
You are correct. I'm very sure of that. Good luck to you Kate. People call you a basher simply because you're tired of being lied to. It's an unfair characterization ...and a distraction from how consistently and arrogantly wrong they are. Expect the world, be disappointed. Expect very little, be pleased with anything and invested in other things.
I ....well, I can't say either is impossible. Both the stock and the escrows are completely disappointing. If anyone had any doubt about COOP just look at COOPs flatline for dec 26. Every stock on the Nasdaq was green, except for one (can't remember but you can look it up). We... technically closed even, and then went red in ah. COOP.....sucks. it just does. It's such an underachiever... like it's on life support... it's almost strange how badly coop performs, and WMIH before it.
And escrow returns...ha. thats been pushed back so many times they'll be doing skits about it on SNL soon.
Anyone not disappointed is flat delusional.
This is undoubtedly the worst performing stock I've ever heard of.
I have doubts about ever, much less 2018.
I remember several years ago csny would go on about how we would suddenly be at $24 from a start point of $2. Now we go through a reverse split and still can't even make it to 15. If the goal of a stock was to fail, this would be the most impressive stock one had ever heard of.
It has been a complete joke for years. Now is supposed to be the time that it came out of the Shadows to shine. I don't really believe in curses, but I might make an exception for this stock.
It is remarkable that the Dow Jones is up over 700 points, 3.5%, and yet somehow we are actually down for the day. This is the only stock in my portfolio that is down today. I'm just beside myself. I shouldn't be surprised but yet I still am.
Yet another attempt at distraction. You are trying to put the focus on us rather than the fact that payout has not and is not occurring. You're also trying to distract from the fact that you, like so many others, are wrong yet again. I wrote a couple weeks ago that this would not be wrapped up in 2018, and no payout to P's or Q's would have occurred, to which you replied that 2018 was not over yet. We have five days left, my bet is still on the table and will not be moved. Will you do the honorable thing when you are proved to be wrong yet again? I bet not.
Respectfully, that's a disingenuous response. 97% of the people on this board only own and have only ever owned P's and Q's and you know that. All that side action doesn't matter to that 97%. Let's admit we have no idea what the future holds and we can all move on together with nothing to argue about.
No, good point. I could swear many said it would gave happened by now. In fact I could swear that has been case hundreds of times already. Seems those folks have been fooled.
No change on mine. Etrade.
"....but actions that will in turn lead to payouts. "
I hear what you're saying, and I appreciate it, but really it's a bit of a cop out. Theoretically if Brian Rosen takes a poop, everyone can say, "Well that's one less bowel movement until we get paid!"
Personally I do not believe there will be any significant actions- these people, the judge, the lawyers, not only are they apparently not that motivated to close this out, but it is the holidays and they all have families too. I would bet my left ring finger that we got absolutely no significant escrow news before the close of 2018, and I believe that Coop will be in the $10's. I wish otherwise, but that is the direction it is going.
2018 ANOTHER BUST. As many of us predicted it
Would be. Its not about being a naysayer, its about looking at the past ten plus years and simply being honest with ourselves that unfortunately optimism here is historically unfounded in comparison to pragmatism or sadly even pessimism.
Maybe one day something great will happen, but I will never actively EXPECT it. Happy holidays to all, your health is more important than your wealth anyways! May you please not wait for wamu riches to follow your dreams, follow them now if you can!
Best,
AT
If that's not making lemonade out of lemons I don't know what it is. I may not know finance, but I sure know when someone's reaching,
Imo, no chance. The price is dropping just because we are unlucky suckers.
Well all good points, but never underestimate the stupidity of pride and arrogance, two things that lead many to their graves...
No, this will never ever close. When it's no longer a topic worth discussing we will be dead
Sounds par for the course..
Not only that, it's in their interest to pick fights between parties that don't have a quarrel. The profession almost requires poor character.
Your last comment, poised in the form of a question, is it good point. I have heard that it is standard practice to not ask any question that they don't already know the answer to.
That sounds like pointless negative talk, but unfortunately I actually think what you're saying is quite likely.
I don't see another delay not coming. If a new delay is not announced today it may be the first time inthe history of this court case that Walrat spoke and did not okay another delay
It's true, you naysayers are unfortunately always right. I even get called a naysayer just for acknowledging that. I'm not a naysayer nor a believer, I just see patterns, and historically they don't favor the believers.
Ok buddy, you got two and a half hours to set up the fireworks. Bet the 19th comes and goes with no show, jmho...
"...MM could have taken Coop apart any time they wanted to.."
Uh have you seen the pps lately? Looks torn apart to me.
What, you don't believe his daily, "Did you buy today? I did." BS? Why not? Doesn't it makes sense to buy at every price point possible nearly daily, finding new justification for each buy related to each new price? Lol
Look, I'm very much invested in WMIH/COOP, but hyping sans honest logic is only worthwhile for a short term pump. Longterm such hyping does not benefit price, therefore it is pointless lies by way of dishonest implications and to no measurable benefit. If the was evidence to the contrary I would hype/pump too, but the isn't.
We know better by now than to get our hopes up. But we all agree closing would be nice. Personally...I would bet on sometime in 2019, possibly even early summer
Wow, ok. See you in four months
Thank you for your post. And thank you for your offer regarding reading the due diligence.
As Finance and banking are not my fields of expertise, it would be a poor investment of my time to read through all the relevant docs.
In determining for myself whether I should get excited about any particular date or event, it is more efficient for me to trust those with much more conservative views on outcome, for instance Hotmeat or Bond, who DO understand much of the legalese. On very rare occasions there is so much logic apparent that something looks promising that the conservatives and the optimistic posters all agree. Those are the rare occassions I allow my hopes to lift.
Yes! Correct and thank you! I wish you could hear me applauding right now. Thank you for your integrity Bond.
Wow.... so this is what happens after no great news for long stretches? I preferred a couple years ago when people were sharing recipes. What a sad state of affairs. Come on End, hurry up and get here!
Is it just laziness, or....
Her history suggests to me she has someone's money in her pocket, just my opinion..
Judging by the stock price movement today, I take it most shareholders would have preferred to keep the old CFO
Im always amazed people like Rosen remain untouched by physical violence regardless of what they do. It reminds me of a contractor I knew who didn't pay half his subs- everyone wanted to kill him, but nobody touched him. Nobody had the money to take him to court and nobody wanted to beat him with a baseball bat and go to jail. Maybe somehow Rosen is an ally to us now, I don't fully understand it, but years ago when he appeared to be working hard to completely screw thousands of shareholders each day I was amazed he was still alive. It just shows you how easy it is to get away with terrible behavior.
Sounds very sensible to me. Thanks for posting the relevant and related excerpts from the pertaining Docs. It all sounds pretty clear that P holders stand strongly first in line. To me that's never been a question. The only thing I'm wondering about is what happens after P's receive full face "$1000"... does the remaining continue to get split 75/25?
It has always appeared to me that this language was written under the assumption that there would not be enough to reach commons, therefore meaning that preferreds would not get paid in full either. If your lower estimate of only 2 billion dollars coming back is correct I think this is how it would play out.
Best post of the day!
You make an extremely valid point. We CANNOT verify that ANYTHING.... is coming back, and that is a fact!
We are following docs and hoping that blank plus blank must equal blank, BUT... we do NOT know!
Come on, dont bash, thats weak. Instead prove that HM is wrong...IF you can. I'd rather hear conservative doubts then to hear pie-in-the-sky predictions that come out as Wrong Time After Time After Time After Time After Time.
Uh, March 16, 2017 is NOT news.