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Hmmmm...this whole legal age thing is interesting. Even though it doesn't apply to me.
I wonder if a person could set up a trust for their child and have the trust own the car. And have the insurance for the car be in the trust's name. Hmmmmm. Loophole?
Or, what if the parent (if they had the time/resources) were to-->
1) Open a business (one in which could own assets)
2) Have the business purchase and own the car
3) Have the business be the insurer
4) Add the teenager as a primary driver of the vehicle the business owns.
You still have a say if they live in your house...if I'm not mistaken.
The "magic" is conditional upon what I wrote. At 18, they are legally responsible according to the law. That means they can own a car without my say so. They can own their own insurance without my signature. They can enter into contracts, etc...
When my kid turned 18, he was in college, had a job, paid for a car out of his savings, and had his own insurance. I would never think of putting GPS in his car for my benefit. When he was 17, he had a job, had his own car because we felt he was responsible enough to have his own car, and we paid for his insurance. I would've definately considered GPS, not just because of speeding, but to know where he was if I wanted to know.
My point was, if the conditions set forth above are not met at 18, and I'm paying for everything and I'm liable for his behavior under my insurance, then there is no "magic".
What is "magic" about turning 18 as far as being responsible or not?
well be glad you're there
it could be worse, you could have gone to NC State or Central! lol
Yeah, that's why college bugs me sometimes. Where are the stimulating subjects?
I've been lucky with some of my courses...but I need to find a major/courses that will actually help me with my career. Rather than just have a piece of paper that says I paid 200k to go somewhere for 4 years.
*yawn* Business Management
(originally was accounting but changed my mind with that too!)
True. I was going to add that. I didn't know what your finances were like.
What was your UG degree?
That would have been the smart thing to have done, eh? lol
However, something about the student loan only covering one Master degree.
How many credits did that add? What about getting that first degree that you were 4 classes away from and going after the second?
Because I LOVE computers!
Although I have a great paying job, it bores the hell right out of me! I've allowed myself to adapt to this monotonous
comfort zone.
Why'd you switch?
I "had" four more classes to complete for my Master in Health Care Management but just switched my major to Computer Programming. Crazy, huh?
Maybe I'm just lucky. haha.
You're terrible! I told my kids they could have a car, the only catch is I always have to be in the passenger seat whenever they go out ;)~
Econ...for now.
Hmmm. I'll pass on that.
What part of the country are you from?
You didn't say what major!
I already told my kids they can't have a car! (I'm a commie mommie what can I say?)
and they have attend UNC <~~~ best girl's soccer team!
(already own condos near the campus :)
now aren't you lucky I'm not your mom? lol
No, it wouldn't be without my parent's permission. But it would be my car. My insurance. My liability.
Major? Some sort of finance driven one.
I was actually thinking of switching to Sociology or a specific type of Econ. I need to check and see if there is a behavioral finance course or major.
I plan on working with stocks and the like for my career. Probably will start a private equity fund at some point...hopefully soon.
No, actually we're all very conservative. They just trust me. But I understand that liberal has multiple meanings...besides being a political term.
I go to Wake, remember? How many liberals go there? hehe jk
And, I just asked my mother. She said she wouldn't get it unless it offered a break on the insurance.
What are you saying, that rapists and child molesters deserve second chances and drunk drivers don't, LOL?
Take away a drunk's keys, and a child molester's eyes. Sounds like fair comparison to me!!
1) An under 18 person cannot get his/her own insurance without a parent or legal guardian to sign the application, or buy a car.
2) If he lived under MY roof under MY care, and under My legal authority? You bet your arse, whether he pays or not!
The value learned from buying your own car and paying for your own insurance is not freedom in the sense you are talking about. Because he pays for his own car and insurance doesn't give him the right to drive stupidly. It gives him the right to do what he wants with the car aesthetically.
Buying his own car and insurance teaches him responsibility, valuing what he has purchased and hopefully pride in getting something for something.
Now, at age 18, if he works, is off all of my policies, doesn't owe me for cars, pays his own insurance that has high liablity coverage, the GPS comes out. I've done my job.
mjm first of all, a teen can't just go out and purchase a vehicle without the parent's permission.
What's your major?
If this were the only way in which I were allowed to drive? With this tracking GPS? I would say: "Fine. I'm getting my own car, with my own insurance and paying for it myself."
I really don't think that tracking your teens will teach responsibility
And your own house too? lol
Like I said, it's a matter of how you were raised. You probably had liberal parents that allowed you lots of "freedom" to do as you wish.
You can usually tell how a grown up was raised by their actions as an adult. Those that lived without discipline as a child usually grow up to detest following rules (see a lot of them in the ihub jail) and don't take responsibility for their actions.
What if your teen went out and purchased his own car with his own insurance? Would you still track them?
I just think the main issue would be the tracking. The constant updates and alerts. I mean, sure it would be nice to be able to login in and check up on them. But getting emails or texts if they take a pitstop somewhere?
Did you have to approve where you went (within reason) with your parents when you first started driving?
I mean, I think parents typically say-- Stay within these areas/towns. Get more experience before you drive here and there. Etc.
I thought a lot of this was avoided if the parents spend time with their children and have them drive when they have their permit.
If this were the only way in which I were allowed to drive? With this tracking GPS? I would say: "Fine. I'm getting my own car, with my own insurance and paying for it myself."
I really don't think that tracking your teens will teach responsibility.
I'm not sure about everything else...but I very much agree about drunk driving. I don't understand why US laws about DUI's are so loose.
Is it that hard to get a taxi? Or to plan ahead? Or take the train? Or crash on a couch? Or walk? Or take the train? Or to not drink and be the DD for your friends?
well the only place without us they go is school and to relative's homes visiting.
they keep it on at school but in walkie-talkie mode
I basically got them for safety purposes
Yeah, but is that GPS tracker always on? Or only used in emergencies? Do you get updates here and there about where they are?
Ahh, as much as I don't like Duke... they're ACC too.
I consider myself a "common sense" conservative. Not wacko far right conservative. Some of my views? We get our men and women out of Iraq...almost 3,000 dead. Mission failed. We seal and secure our borders, including not allowing middle eastern muslim students into the country until THEIR young age schools change their teachings. Any muslim cleric here in the U.S. found to be preaching hate and terrorist support must go immediately. Are you a muslim? Fine, we can live together. But I'll shoot you if you even mention the words "you deserved it". We start profiling at airports. Screw civil liberties. Arabs is arabs and sorry, but you are #1 on the suspicion list. Live with it or go back home. Caught drunk driving? Sorry pal, you lose. Find a ride forever. Kill someone while drunk driving? Sorry pal, you die. Don't speak English and you live here? Learn it fast. Live and let live. When you threaten me or my family, prepare yourself for a whole lotta sh%t. Yes, kids can still get their license at 16. Yes, gays can marry each other and adopt. Who cares? Freedom of choice for sure. That's between you and G-d. You want to murder a fetus? I ain't judging you. But HE will. All rapists and child molesters should be jailed, castrated, then surgically blinded before being released back into public.
Ok, so maybe just a little wacko, LOL!
"how much strife is this service going to cause between parents and children? "
I guess that all depends on how the child is raised in the first place.
I honestly don't think mine would have a problem with it and would just be excited to have a car in the first place.
Both of my children have cell phones that have GPS tracker installed in them and they know it and are fine with it.
Otherwise, my solution would be for them not to have any phone :)
I think the type of kids that would have "strife" are the same kids that have parents who wouldn't bother doing this in the first place so it's really a mute point.
1) I would TELL my teen I am watching their driving behavior.
2) If they dont like it, don't drive!
3) They have NO freedom. Only privilege.
4) They would understand ALL of the rules going in and the ALL consequences of not following them.
5) If my teenager forces keys away from a driver that is drunk, and drives his/her car, REWARD TIME!
6) If my teenager is a great driver, me watching him will not matter, whether I wait a year or two or not.
7) Teens NEED parents to step up and do things like this, even though they SAY and THINK they don't want it.
What your saying is akin to letting children having a computer in their rooms and have the parents "trust" them by not watching what they are doing.
Perhaps you should survey the parents of the hundreds of kids who are killed every year from excessive speeding.
Your grandstand is admirable, but at 20, and until you have children of your own, respectfully, you have a highly slanted view of this product and/or service in my opinion.
And I am not affiliated with this company in any way.
blue devil baby! lol
Ok, let me first point out my current situation. Just so there aren't any incorrect assumptions.
I am a current college student. I also have very recently entered the wonderful world of driving (4 years ago? Permit at 16 or so, and I just turned 20. So let's just say 4 years.)
Now, I have been fortunate enough to have a car and insurance provided to me over the past few years. And, I am grateful for that. Yes, there is a great amount of worry that parents have when their children first start to drive. They are concerned about their teen. They are concerned about their car. And, they are concerned about their assets. This is part of the reason why I have decided to get my own insurance and purchase/lease my own car. Not only does this provide relief for my parents, but it creates a tremendous amount of responsibility for me.
However, how much strife is this service going to cause between parents and children? Yes, it might be the parents’ car. Yes, it's under their roof. Yes, it's their food. Fine.
But, isn't this a bit extreme? We have to resort to GPS tracking and email/text updates to watch our children? Oh, and place it there without them knowing it? That would be such a great conversation to have if your teen happened to do something "wrong." Here’s a sample of what could and probably would happen if you just stuck that GPS tracker in there without your teen knowing.
Oh, hey were you speeding today?
No.
Oh, well, I know that you were.
Well, I didn’t speed. You’re wrong.
I have proof.
From what? Did you see me speed?
No.
Then what?
Oh, I have a GPS tracking system in your car.
WHAT? I HATE YOU!
It’s for your own good! I love you!
I hate you! Don’t ever talk to me again! Don’t you trust me?
Frankly, I think this opens a whole range of liability issues and problems. Just think about what might happen? Keep in mind that this Teensurance Big Brother service isn't a mandate. I can foresee a great amount of passive rebellion due to this small device and constant watchful eye. More people could be put at risk. Your teens could make different decisions than they would have.
For example, what if your teen decides to abide by your rules for YOUR car, but dismisses them for other people’s cars? Your new teen driver might just have to gain those first crucial years of learning how to drive in someone else’s car. What if they get in an accident in that other person’s car? What if they leave their car at home but get into an accident because they decide to ditch the overprotective GPS system and ride with another new driver. What if your teen is responsible but is forced into a situation where he has to drive or ride with someone they’d rather not because they are too afraid of that tracking system in their own car. This service doesn’t track other drivers.
There is no responsibility created here. No freedom. Your teens will not be able to make decisions on their own. Instead it’s fear. Hmm, I want to stop at the mall on the way home from school. Or I want to go to Starbucks and get a quick snack. Why is mom calling me? Oh she saw that I’m not going directly home. I hate this. I don’t think I want to drive their car anymore.
So now, not only are you potentially damaging the built up trust you have with your teens, your concern now has to be shifted to other teen drivers when they go out. I have a feeling that many of these Teensurance teens will opt not to drive. Or at least not to drive their own car. You might trust your teen, but do you trust their friends? Do you even know their friends? Did you have any part in seeing how they drive? Are you their parents? Can you punish their friends? And now that trust is possibly reduced. They might disregard those rules and rebel even more than normal. What can you do? Kick them out of the house? Disown your children? Is that the type of options you wish to be faced with?
It is a much better solution to build trust between you and your children. It is much better to proactively respond to potential problems, rather than watch, police, and punish. It is much better to instill in your teen a sense of responsibility. This will not assist that. This will destroy any progress you might have made and disrupt what you thought was a utopian environment.
Although I do recognize some of the benefits of Teensurance. Yes, the GPS could be helpful. But the minute to minute updates and alerts are not necessary. If they are, your teen should not be driving in the first place. If you need or think these alerts are necessary, then you might want to rethink your parenting methods. Maybe something needs to be addressed. I do think that alerts or status updates might be helpful in a limited sense. But services such as OnStar already offer them (I believe). Let’s say your teen has disappeared and is unreachable, and this is very unlike them to do something like that. Then the ability to see where they are could give you some peace of mind. But have emails sent to you every minute if they are off route is a bit extreme, isn’t it? Also, the car unlocking service would be beneficial, but OnStar provides that as well.
If you need to track your teens, then should they be driving in the first place? Maybe they should wait a year or two. Maybe I don’t feel safe with you allowing your teen to drive, but you don’t trust them enough that you have to watch over their each and every move. That you don’t trust their driving or decision making ability.
Just be prepared to open yourself up to all kinds of liability issues and potential fights due to this service. Oh, your teen might be driving a junk car to start out with? But again what about their friends? Do you insure their friends? Can you afford to even? You and your teen might be able to afford the repairs on their used Honda Civic, but what if they are allowed to drive a friend’s car and get into an accident? What if that friend has a very nice car which neither you and your teen can afford to fix? What if your insurance drops your or raises your insurance because they won’t cover this damage on a non-covered car? Oh, yeah, you might say, “I trust my teen to make the right choices. I will tell them not to drive other people’s cars.” But what if they don’t listen? And if you trust them so much then why do you track them? And then you’d have to lie to the insurance companies and say that you knew about their driving friends’ cars and allowed it, if you wanted to receive any sort of help with the damages. What if you get sued?
Oh and to take a less selfish approach, what about this? What if your teen chooses to ride or drive another car that isn’t as safe as his own? What if they are hurt or killed, but they might have been fine if they were riding in the safer normal car? And those statistics are somewhat flawed. Some have to do with other drivers being at fault. How am I to protect myself from getting hit by an unsafe or drunk driver?
I just feel that this service will cause more problems than it would solve. Maybe I should rephrase my opinion. Maybe I should say that the abuse of Teensurance would be horrible. That constant tracking and updating would be poor. However, the OnStar-like features it offers could be beneficial and create peace of mind.
The best option would probably be to get the car in your teen’s name with their own insurance. Also, you yourself should have some sort of liability umbrella insurance to protect your assets. And, if you were that worried, install OnStar. But this real-time tracking is horrendous, thus why I think Teensurance is horrible.
Oh, don't give me that tar heel propaganda. Oh, everyone loves UNC because the sky is carolina blue.
Orrrr, are you a dukie? Anyway, I'm going to respond to that other person's post in a minute...I just have to formulate an argument.
Oh lawd! You attend Wake Forest.
Now I see why you think it's horrendous LMAO
I agree!
I'd do it in a heartbeat. That's the problem with teens today, they have too much freedoms.
Just like with the computer, my kids are aware that I have child monitoring software on their system. They don't even complain about it because they know the house rules.
Driving an automobile is a HUGE responsibility and is a privilege and not a right.
I'd rather have a kid angry with me because I keep an eye on them rather than have to identify a body on the highway lord forbid.
EXCELLENT point! I couldn't have said that better myself.
Well,
I disagree with you. I wouldn't even remotely use the word "horrendous". My kids are older, but if this were available when THEY were teens, I would have seriously considered it. They had NO rights while living under MY roof, driving MY cars, and eating MY food. Privacy and respect, yes. Rights? Nah. Trust? Sure, but if they are trustworthy, they should welcome the idea. Besides, this can be done without them ever knowing it anyway.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=teens+die+in+car+crash
http://www.healthinschools.org/ejournal/2007/feb1.htm
http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/aug2005/nichd-24a.htm
Plus many many more.
These kids need guidance, and if that means us keeping an eye on them through GPS, too bad I say. Yeah, they are people, but they are young people. I'd rather have a kid angry with me because I keep an eye on them rather than have to identify a body on the highway lord forbid.
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