Replies to post #262620 on Plastic2Oil Inc (PTOI)

[Rawnoc]

Bullshit.

[buenokite]

Excellent post that sums up JBI well.

[jaxstraw]

JBI’s entire business plan was based on the premise that very high profit margins would be obtained by pyrolyzing mixed, unwashed, unsorted landfill bound plastic waste.

JBI had at least two solid opportunities to prove the economic viability of the model: RockTenn (RKT) and Madison County. Think of these as experimental trials. Both trials involved large supplies of suitable plastics (HDPE, LDPE and/or PP). In both cases the plastic waste was available free of charge to JBI.

The Madison County trial was the easier of the two, as JBI could use the processors at its existing facility in Niagara Falls and the plastic was pure LDPE in the form of agricultural film. Yes, it was dirty, but the company claimed it could process unwashed plastic. In the end, JBI was unable to turn any profit from the low hanging fruit of Madison County. Why? We are being told that this free feedstock is just too expensive to process.

The RockTenn case was the bigger challenge of the two. The feedstock included mixed, unwashed plastics in the form of raggertail, various waste packaging plastics and something that was to be mined from a monofil site. This waste would be processed at an RKT location where JBI would install its equipment. Tests were performed, equipment was built and a third party engineering consultant was brought in to perform a very brief study on a “pristine” processor. Funding was provided by means of a private placement of shares to a group of investors (mockingly referred to as “whales” by Bordynuik’s own acolytes). Unfortunately, the new plant was never built and there was never any production. JBI has not given its shareholders any explanation as to why this trial was abandoned.

[steelyeye]

There are reasons why most of these arguments are complete bullshit.

There's a reason why JBI can't process this waste stream that's not of the right types and quality and not properly sorted to the processor's capabilities, otherwise he would already be doing it

-- This sounds like the old and tired argument that because JBI hasn't done it yet, they cannot and will never do it. False. Anyone who has bothered to read Bordynuik's ASME paper about the evolution of the processor understands that different stages of its development for commercial production at rates up to 4000 lbs./hr. required progressive solutions as they were encountered in real time.

All John had to do was prove that his claims were true by scaling up the process and running it profitably in a commercial environment.

-- Sounds like it should be as easy as pushing the green "on" button, right? False. Scaling for commercial production at continuous rates exceeding 1500 lbs./hr. was accomplished with P2 and validated by SAI Corp (who documented almost 3000 lbs./hr. over a three day continuous cycle). Higher rates of production caused pet coke to accumulate rapidly, which meant another solution was required. That is what P3 is all about.

Proof of this economic viability would depend on finding adequate quantities of free, suitable feedstock. This feedstock would be fed into processors that would run continuously with very little direct overhead expense.

-- Correct, and JBI's partnership with Crayola demonstrates this.

JBI had at least two solid opportunities to prove the economic viability of the model: RockTenn (RKT) and Madison County. Think of these as experimental trials. Both trials involved large supplies of suitable plastics (HDPE, LDPE and/or PP). In both cases the plastic waste was available free of charge to JBI.

-- False. The RockTenn "opportunity" involved significant infra-structure and permitting costs with a company, RockTenn, that has not yet shown any willingness to participate in sharing those costs to implement the installation of JBI processors at their sites.

The Madison County trial was the easier of the two, as JBI could use the processors at its existing facility in Niagara Falls and the plastic was pure LDPE in the form of agricultural film. Yes, it was dirty, but the company claimed it could process unwashed plastic. In the end, JBI was unable to turn any profit from the low hanging fruit of Madison County. Why? We are being told that this free feedstock is just too expensive to process.

-- False again. There was not nearly enough Ag plastic available, the Ag film needed shredding, it was apparently contained lots of soil, and JBI had recently thereafter closed their recycling center (RRON). Crayola was willing to ship feedstock for free... feedstock that needs NO pre-processing whatsoever.

The RockTenn case was the bigger challenge of the two. The feedstock included mixed, unwashed plastics in the form of raggertail, various waste packaging plastics and something that was to be mined from a monofil site. This waste would be processed at an RKT location where JBI would install its equipment. Tests were performed, equipment was built and a third party engineering consultant was brought in to perform a very brief study on a “pristine” processor.

--False. Raggertail was processed successfully during test runs, but the equipment built and tested was JBI's Processor #2 that contained the addition of a "pre-melt" system at Niagara Falls, and could never be installed at the Jacksonville, FL RockTenn site. See reasons above as to why.

Funding was provided by means of a private placement of shares to a group of investors (mockingly referred to as “whales” by Bordynuik’s own acolytes). Unfortunately, the new plant was never built and there was never any production. JBI has not given its shareholders any explanation as to why this trial was abandoned.

See above for the explanation about upfront costs.

To borrow a term from the biotech space: P2O failed twice to meet its endpoints.

-- Not even close. If you are talking about scientific endpoints, then please refer to the Islechem, LLC data, the NYSDEC permitting data, the Conestoga-Rovers and Associates (CRA) stack test data, and the SAI Corp. 3-day continuous audit of P2 data. These can all be found in the peer-reviewed scientific paper published by the American Association of Mechanical Engineers (ASME).

-- If instead you are talking about commercial profitability, then THAT endpoint will no doubt be reached upon completion of the very first sale of processors, which the CEO has stated are "in negotiations."

The company, low on cash and without an economically viability process, now appears to be liquidating its assets and heading toward shutdown.

-- Quite the opposite: There is no indication of liquidating assets, but rather a change in business model that includes cost-cutting measures such as closing RRON and trimming staff not needed going forward. JBI has been able to obtain necessary financing whenever they have needed it. The CEO Rick Heddle has put millions of his own money into the company within the last 6 months, and it remains to be seen what kind of financing terms JBI obtains to accompany their current business model.

The December AGM transcript is quite useful both to see where JBI has been, and where they propose to go in the future.

[Zardiw]

Let's not.........

Let's focus for a moment

Because your entire argument makes zero sense........

z