thanks-if maxm-gets bored waiting-----bingo--im getting ready 4 4s also--nothing to 0017--------and that will be cheap with a pr--------one of old directors had new survelience business at same address!!!-RM-ANYONE!! -------OR WHAT I WANT ---the continuation of the dips-i tried them all in the days----------they were all greatªªªªªcome on hellmans or kraftªªªªª==========================tmonkey