Thank you Joe, I get it. My question was, why no one can put a little effort with all this assumptions, chasing their tails in a circle. Chanting "It was Lehman, It was Lehman". Someone can just type out a few coherent sentences on a simple form and wait for a reply. No one here knows and refuses to find out if it was Lehman. I just don't get the logic some here are saying. Creditors and Bondholders and the such, received pennies on the dollar recovery, but the precious Trusps are worth up 34 a share. What???????? The non dischargeable clause is unenforceable with Bankruptcy from my understanding.