.. apologies to the board for more of this dangerous anarchist nonsense .. just to see these conspiracy people exist in other Western countries, too ..
Updated x 2 | Today, guardian.co.uk’s Comment is Free (CIF) was “taken over” .. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/series/occupy-comment-is-free .. by the Occupy London .. http://occupylsx.org/ .. movement. This has led to two particularly worrying articles being published. Both purport to offer legal advice which, if followed, could lead you straight to prison.
The second article, co-authored by “commonly known as dom“, propagates the dangerous myths of the Freeman of the Land Movement, described here .. http://www.headoflegal.com/2011/08/26/self-styled-outlaws/ .. and elegantly deconstructed here .. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2011/nov/16/law-protest-occupy-freemen .. by legal blogger Carl Gardner. In short, the Freemen believe that if you change your name and deny the jurisdiction of the courts, you will be able to escape (you guessed it) debt collectors, council tax and even criminal charges. See also this detailed article on the movement’s ideas .. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land , which are a mixture of the wacky and the bizarre. As “commonly known as dom” puts it, “if you don’t consent to be that “person”, you step outside the system“.
No you don’t. This movement is not just silly, it is also dangerous, and seemingly gaining popularity through numerous internet sites. I can provide two recent examples where it definitely did not help, and probably did harm to, people in the justice system.
Both Haigh and Watson considered themselves Freemen of the Land, who attempted to step outside of the system. It seems likely that at least in Watson’s case, her belief that she had “stepped outside of the system” led to her brazenly to flout contempt laws for as long as she did.
My second example arose when I did jury service last month (a generally positive experience – see my comment on it here .. http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/13174875 ). One of the trials involved a defendant who was accused of stealing sports cars. When we entered the court, the judge told us that the defendant had released his legal team and was denying the court’s jurisdiction. He refused to cross-examine witnesses – rather, he used the opportunity to ask the judge whether his jurisdiction arose from maritime law – and his closing statement involved the reading of a latin phrase and stating that he was the “official representative of the legal fiction known as...”
We found the Defendant guilty on 7 of 8 counts, and I will not say anything about our reasoning. I do suspect that the car stealing Defendant’s bizarre and misguided defence influenced the judge’s sentencing, and I also imagine that if he had retained his representation he may have pleaded guilty in any event. Either way, he probably went to prison for longer as a result of his attempt to trying to “step outside of the system“.
Occupy London’s takeover of CIF was a cute idea which seems to have gone badly wrong. The only two possible upsides are that, first, through the comments, the views set out in the articles can be given the public shaming which they deserve. Secondly, and somewhat sadly, the fact that this is the best the intellectual members of the Occupy LSX movement can muster exposes the strong possibility that it is being run, in part, by people who should not be allowed anywhere near this country’s economy.
Occupy London does not speak with one voice – within the movement there is much plurality and diversity… getoutofdebtfree.org has helped many people deal with crippling and overwhelming debts… This stuff actually works. It is not ‘dangerous’ for those in debt, but perhaps ‘dangerous’ for those who created the spurious debt in the first place. ________
I disagree. “This stuff” is dangerous and it does people harm. The common link between the get out of debt and freemen articles is that both promote the idea that if you believe hard enough that the financial or legal system does not exist, or is a gigantic fraud, then your problems will disappear along with the system. Notably, Jon Witterick, who wrote the debt article, is also a freeman .. http://kentfreedommovement.ning.com/video/zerogov-interview-jon .
These ideas are most attractive to desperate, vulnerable people who are going through terrible times in their lives. They are also classic conspiracy theories which should be consigned to the same category as the “9/11 was an inside job” T-Shirt which one of the debt advice website’s representatives is wearing in this YouTube video .. http://legalbizzle.wordpress.com/2011/11/07/further-adventures-in-woo/. The articles’ publication on CIF gives the ideas a veneer of respectability they do not deserve.
[YT video embed here]
I very much doubt that the articles represent the views of the many of the thoughtful people who currently .. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/15/occupy-london-eviction-attempt .. occupy the forecourt of St Paul’s Cathedral. But if those people are interested in justice and fairness, they should denounce such irresponsible advice. And CIF should not have given a platform to conspiracy theories.
law is the friend of political progress, not its enemy. Making companies and rich individuals pay their share will depend on exactly those legal and enforcement mechanisms that freemen seek to undermine, and on the rule of law that they mock. Freemanism stands implicitly against social progress, for a libertarian world is one where everyone’s a law unto himself and where the state has no right and no role. We need to be aware of this nonsense so as to resist it. ________
[i'm not sure if the just above should be inside the excerpt, or not]
Update, 17 November 2011 – There is an excellent article on the (surprisingly recent) history and ideas of the Freemen on RationalWiki .. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land . It begins: ________
Freeman on the land or freeman is a form of pseudolegal .. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pseudolaw .. woo .. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Woo .. existing in various English-speaking countries. Freemen believe that they can opt out of being governed and that legislative acts only apply with consent, as they are a form of contract. They believe they are only bound by their own bizarre version of common law .. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Common_law . They will often assert that the law doesn’t apply as they do not consent and do not agree to contract with the state, even going so far as to believe they have a lawful right to refuse being arrested if they do not consent. Essentially, they’re hilarious and somewhat less threatening sovereign citizens .. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen . _________
Oh! "The Freeman on the Land myth: Debunked" (the one this replies to) .. for any with any desire to review some Freemen stuff .. by Travis Barton .. was posted on Tornado Alley in March 2013 .. gulp,lolool,forgot .. i've just posted it on another board .. http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=93955566
News 
Market Data 
Discover 
AI
