[F6 note -- article presented in the post to which this post is a reply]
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Comments
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Enemies of the state? Posted by: murph on Jul 7, 2005 1:32 AM
This is a real person, not just a "story" repeated second hand. The Bush administration moves closer and closer to facism every day. Wake up those of you who think waving the flag makes you patriotic. Questioning those we elect and making them answer the hard ones by any means short of violence is patriotism.
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Forget convincing the elected. ---> Elect the convinced. Posted by: Meremark on Jul 7, 2005 3:04 AM
Congress, especially the House of Represendummies, already showed what they know. Squat. And flatten to a doormat. And let booted bushers wipe the mud all over them.
What, you think any of us can write an email that 'sends a message' that wises (or wakes) them up? Maybe infinite monkeys on infinite typewrites for infinite time could. We can't. And there's no time.
( Says multiple voices at this research website. )
For example: We have very little time ... to start planning for a winter that may include inflation, blackouts, fuel shortages, and even possibly rationing.
We can elect in '06 a whole new House -- the people's chamber -- ready and rearin' to Impeach, just by organizing and gathering 435 names (at least one for each seat), a National Slate of candidates who each pledge and sign a Contract With Democracy, which says: IMPEACH. Period.
And then repeal and undo every last order, bill, and measure that the lying, murdering, war criminals signed into law -- including bogus terrorist-surveillance 'watch lists.'
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what the legislature did not do... Posted by: stonemason on Jul 7, 2005 3:08 AM
Has anyone out there yet read the Patriot Act? Our legislature did not have the time, we are told. Yet the lengthy piece of statecraft revoked our every civil liberty, and set the snare for criminalizing anyone. Perhaps a read of that legislation will bring the author's "crimes" to light. Evidently the Patriot Act neatly supplanted the Bill of Rights.
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and that's not all Posted by: stonemason on Jul 7, 2005 3:38 AM
For those who have not yet seen 9/11 as the semi-aborted military coup it was (remember: Hitler bombed the Parliament building and blamed it on communists to whip up public support of war - this trick isn't even original, and mirrors classic CIA strategy), we have seen nothing yet. With cybertechnology, it is very possible that pretty soon, credit cards may not work for certain gasoline purchases, telephone lines may have automaton voices denying access... and I'm just waiting for some big explosion or something by which the regime will scapegoat the internet ("see, if we didn't have hackers, this [you fill in the blank] terrorist event would not have happened...") and close down all meaningful communication (surely Fox News will survive). We can just as easily be denied internet access as airport clearance.
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Please keep us updated on this situation, Mr. Graham Posted by: bettsoff on Jul 7, 2005 4:00 AM
Since you have chosen Alternet as the place to release your 45-day ultimatum, I will be watching here as your case unfolds.
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A Fascist Farce Posted by: erinachara on Jul 7, 2005 4:07 AM
Bad news: I've waited the 45 days, and here's what TSA had to say in a non-personalized form letter: "We are pleased to report that upon further review of the information you have presented, we have determined that the delays you have encountered do not result from being mistaken for an individul on a TSA watch list."
HUH? Does that then indicate that I experienced delays because I am actually on the list? The TSA is one of the most frightening of our government's new agencies. Even before I was forced to give up curb and kiosk check-in, I experienced being publicly humiliated by TSA agents at the security station, and knew that resistance, or response of any kind, placed me in jeopardy of arrest. I travel by air for my job, and now prefer to drive if at all possible when I am traveling for pleasure. This is NOT the USA where I grew up and was educated. Our government has begun to accellerate down the road to a fascist state. Unless we move to stop the farcical behavior of the TSA and other more subtle invasions of our privacy and rights, we will soon find that "homeland security" has gone to seed and grown into fascism. We are not the enemy!
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The worm turns Posted by: sheherezade on Jul 7, 2005 4:12 AM
Welcome to the real world.
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Waiting to Hear Posted by: grandpadave on Jul 7, 2005 4:38 AM
Like Mr. Graham, the last time I traveled I discovered that I am on the watch list as well. Sent in all the required documentation but have never heard from the TSA.
In all of my fantasizing about why I, an older American, am on this list, suspect that all of the letters and faxes sent to our nations leaders may have contributed although that seems like a stretch. (These were not letters of congratulations on their fine work but were generally quite critical.)
The other possibility that I learned of a number of months ago was that the FBI started files on all persons who traveled in the weeks around 9/11. Unfortunately I was hiking in Utah on that fateful day, having flown into Las Vegas a few days before. Made the trip home via the airlines several days afterward. Still, why would I be added to this list, I wonder. It's aggravating.
With an organization like this one operating in our country, what freedom can we expect to lose next?
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You're either with us or.............................! Posted by: ragmachine on Jul 7, 2005 5:48 AM
"I'm also engaged in international peacemaking,"
Which puts you with the terrorists (see Bush speech, post 9/11) -- only people who hate Amerika would think anything other than war is the appropriate approach to foreign relations! It is treasonous to disagree with the divine right of the USA to impose its will on the world!
It is this administration that should be displayed on "wanted" posters - like the shrub remembers from out west in days of yore.
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Watch List? Who are they watching? Posted by: cyclone on Jul 7, 2005 5:56 AM
Everyone but the terrorists. My white anglo brother is also on the Watch List. Happened when our mother passed away and he had to buy a one way ticket, not knowing when the death would actually occur. He has to use a PO Box when buying a ticket (a bad combination, one way tx and PO Box) because that is the address that his credit card statements go to. Now, he is manhandled by security each time he flies. Too late to wake up now, the party's over. I hope all the dumb asses that voted for the fascist party are happy with what they have created. Everyone that posts on this website is watched, I can guarantee that. About time for that coup, which will probably come in the form of a God who has seen enough.
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RE: You're either with us or.............................! Posted by: ecolib on Jul 7, 2005 6:15 AM
"It is treasonous to disagree with the divine right of the USA to impose its will on the world!"
I agree completely. This is what gives capitalists the power to destroy our planet and infiltrate, dominate, and assimilate other cultures. It infuriates me that Bush uses religion to justify his wrong doings.
If you question/criticize our leadership, you are a terrorist.
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Be very afraid! ! ! Posted by: Erin on Jul 7, 2005 6:35 AM
Bush, Rove, the Patriot Act - all boils down to one thing....we are in real trouble here. Wake up, America. Your rights and freedom are surreptitiously being taken away. Even posting your opinion on this site probably means that we are on some watch list or another. The Patriot Act is a ruse to get control. Americans are asleep at the wheel, and when they wake up it will be too late.
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John Graham's wake-up call Posted by: CJC on Jul 7, 2005 6:57 AM
Nobody should wait for a personal experience like Mr. Graham's to realize that our country has entered a condition where fear of terrorism has become an excuse to terrorize us.
The "Patriot" Act and the Dept of "Homeland Security" do not make us safer. The disappearance of due process of law and transparency are not restricted to the detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, Bagram, and secret detention sites around the world.
The real possibility that any of us could find ourselves on a "watch list" without any possibility of finding out why or being able to clear our names is absolutely chilling. And I suppose the more common and plain vanilla one's name is the more likely it is to show up on a list. Even Edward Kennedy or Ted Kennedy's name was/is on the list and Senator Kennedy was reported to have been subject to extra scrutiny for some time. And who of the rest of us has so recognizable a face and such a prominent position?
To lose the ability to travel by air is a kind of imprisonment. How could one get overseas if one couldn't get on an airplane? The authorities might as well confiscate one's passport!
But how do we get lawmakers' attention????
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You Are Sooo Guilty Posted by: nakis on Jul 7, 2005 7:05 AM
It would seem your admission of guilt lies in your subversive activities. Peace and empowerment movements! Why do you hate America?
I have some friends who are some of the kindest, friendliest, sharing people you can find who were raising money for the Palestinians in refugee camps. They are under watch for their subversive, anti-America acts of trying to feed the starving.
In one of my many letters to my Senator asking him to defeat the renewal of the anti-Bill of Rights Patriot Act, I received this response.
Thank you for sharing ...regarding the USA PATRIOT Act and the ....(SAFE) Act. ....... The PATRIOT Act,... signed into law on October 26, 2001, provides important legal tools and resources to the FBI and other law enforcement agencies to better protect our nation's security. ............. the first title ...states that the civil rights and liberties of all Americans, including Arab Americans, must be protected, and that every effort must be taken to preserve their safety while fighting the war on terrorism. .......... I also remain committed to preserving the civil liberties of the people of Massachusetts and the rest of the nation. After much consideration, I voted in favor of the PATRIOT Act. ......... I will continue to work closely with the Congress and the President to ensure the safety of both our country and our civil liberties. .... Sincerely, John F. Kerry United States Senator
It would seem that he did read it through and reviewed it completely. It seems that you are being protected having your rights restricted. Silly citizen.
I have a hard time accepting that the Democrats are any different than the Republicans except in minor variations. And some Democrats are nothing different.
Sorry about your no fly status. The responsibility lies with all Americans. I have to agree with the 1930 Germany analogy. There is a website (I lost the address) that makes a chilling comparison of the current acts in America and the warning signs of fascism.
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Frogs aren't stupid... Posted by: CLB on Jul 7, 2005 7:14 AM
This "And don't forget that frog. You know that frog. Dropped into a pot of boiling water, he jumps out to safety. But put him into a pot of cold water over a steady flame, he won't realize the danger until it's too late to jump," is an urban legend--stop using it!
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RE: You Are Sooo Guilty Posted by: CJC on Jul 7, 2005 7:18 AM
I too am a constituent of John Kerry.
How do we get his attention?????
So easy to be a US Senator. Even if your name is on a list it's not too hard to get someone to verify your identity. Trouble is he's a frog in the boiling water too.
Maybe we all need to get active in a coordinated way to take on this watch list. Is the ACLU on the case?
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RE: Frogs aren't stupid... Posted by: CJC on Jul 7, 2005 7:21 AM
Maybe frogs aren't stupid. But human beings clearly have a 1001 reasons not to see dangers growing up in their faces!
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Happy to be watched! Posted by: jefhadist on Jul 7, 2005 7:38 AM
Let's all get paranoid....real paranoid. On second thought... let's not. What's the point? We are all being "watched" in one form or another and it's been going on for at least fifty years. Ask Dr. King, Malcolm X, Dennis Banks, The Hollywood Ten, etc. how it felt. I'm embarrassed and ashamed to be a citizen of this country. We are told it's for our own good? Just watch TV, have a beer or take a chill pill, and if you don't like what's on just change the channel. More bombings in London. Don't worry. Everything is o.k! We won't let this distract us from "accomplishing the mission." If there is anything you need to know, they'll tell us, just turn on the boob tube. This is total madness people....we are fully through the looking glass here. "If you don't like the news maybe it's time to go make some of our own." (Scoop Nisker) Just good luck getting anybody to pay attention, or get it published, for more than a five-second sound bite. Good luck with your fight, brother giraffe. We are with you.
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It ain't easy being orange Posted by: JesseBC on Jul 7, 2005 7:43 AM
I'm on the list too. Right now, I'm only Orange. So I can still fly. But in the years since September 11, I've watched my security status increase. Last time I flew, TSA informed me I'm now Orange, but of course wouldn't tell me why and I have no clue. I have to go through all kinds of crap to get on a plane now, including (because my front-clasp bra hooks set off the wand) having a TSA agent reach up under my shirt and feel my breasts). To add salt the wounds, TSA also managed to lose the boarding pass for my connecting flight when they were searching my carry-on, almost resulting in me missing my connecting flight. At first I merely resented spending a couple hundred dollars to be treated like a criminal. Now, I think we have some real reasons to be afraid.
I'm sure it's only a matter of time before I'm placed on the No Fly list too.
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RE: Happy to be watched! Posted by: Erin on Jul 7, 2005 7:47 AM
This is not about paranoia. This is about reality. But the majority of the people just don't believe it. They are complacent puppets of this regime. Turn off your TV and think for yourselves. And you are right; the more pills they can convince you to take will keep you in a catatonic state so they can have their way with you.
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ClintEastwood Posted by: ClintEastwood on Jul 7, 2005 8:23 AM
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" Juvenol, 1st cent. Roman satirical poet's warning for a corrupt government
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BoldAnd so the Republic dies, with a whimper.Bold Posted by: ddmffood on Jul 7, 2005 8:46 AM
We are getting what we deserve....we (as a nation) are more interested in Brangelina, and the latest (un)reality t.v. show. We are bamboozled by the latest version of the Roman's "Bread and Circuses" ploy. Keep the people fed and entertained, and they will fiddle while the Constitution burns.
I am continually amazed by people who say that after 9/11 we have to sacrifice some personal liberties to keep the country safe. We are now the land of the monitored and the home of the scared shitless. Liberty comes at a high price, our founding fathers understood this. Most of the signers of the Dec. of Independence died penniless or at the hands of the British for their timerity.
We have to take our country back, and it will be a battle. I for one, am willing to be on whatever 'watch list' my vocal opposition puts me on....I'm a 56 yr. old grandmother and the only weapon I have is my voice, and "I'm Mad as Hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"
Diane R. Jones, Citizen
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RE: BoldAnd so the Republic dies, with a whimper.Bold Posted by: ddmffood on Jul 7, 2005 8:49 AM
Hmm, so I see html doesn't work in the title box. My bad.
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Chickens come home to roost Posted by: apodapa on Jul 7, 2005 9:28 AM
The government is now the enemy of the people. It's time for revolution.
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the warning signs of fascism - Posted by: apodapa on Jul 7, 2005 9:35 AM
Um, just how much warning do you need? It's here, it has been here for a while. It's just getting worse. But the sooner we acknowledge it the better. I guess.
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RE: You Are Sooo Guilty Posted by: apodapa on Jul 7, 2005 9:37 AM
Look, stop wassting your time thinking that Kerry or any other jerk like him cares about wht you think, or who you are. they don't care at all. I TOO live in MA. I think Kerry is a waste of space.
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uklibcat Posted by: lbowling on Jul 7, 2005 10:01 AM
Ok., folks. You're all totally correct. But as much as sharing the pain & horror stories may be cathartic, the only way to change things is to work state by state, district by district to recruit sane, electable candidates and then replace the weasels that are passing these laws and supporting the Bush agenda. There's not going to be any coup, revolution, or impeachment to change things. If it didn't happen in the 60-70's it won't happen now. Just the revolution at the ballot box; and it sure better happen in '06 or it may be too late.
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Of Course You're A Terrorist, Mr Graham! Posted by: DaftAida on Jul 7, 2005 10:02 AM
What? Empowering people to challenge the status quo? To build confidence in people that they can effect change? Any campaigner for truth either currently active or in the past has to be eliminated under the commie/fascist NWO.
Well, the only positive side to this undue and unwarranted harrassment is that you now know that conspiracy 'theorists' deal mainly in conspiracy Facts, and you are in a much more powerful position now to potray these facts to others, that they too may open their eyes and mobilize!
To commemorate 4th July, I read the Declaration of Independence and wondered whether America will ever reclaim her freedom. Right from the start, moves were made to crush this spirit because 'one' simply cannot control or exploit a free people and, heaven forbid that other nations of peoples might catch on to this idea.
We, in the UK have never had the advantage of a constitution or a declaration of independance which means we have no rights at all (don't mentioned the feudal propoganda called the Magna Carter). That's why it's so very important that you, who had a framework set in stone, pull through and eliminate the parasitic elements who have knawed through the bowels of your constitution.
There are bloody times ahead; may fortitude and grace be with you all.
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The giraffe did it. Posted by: raverill on Jul 7, 2005 10:04 AM
I think the author made the list with his "Giraffe" work, sticking his neck out to help others. Another clue arrives in the next paragraph when he describes his work with a "peace-making" organization. If that organization is Amnesty Int'l. it's for sure that's how he made the list.
The Bush Administration views anyone who does not agree with their policies 100% as an enemy of the state.
If I were the author, I would assume that every phone conversation, every e-mail, is being monitored.
Sieg heil, Hitler! for the Patriot Act!
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RE: Chickens come home to roost Posted by: youhavegottobekidding on Jul 7, 2005 10:08 AM
I just made up a completely fictitious email address not expecting at all to be able to send an email to this site.
where you can post to the site without any name or having any email address.
It seems to work fine there.
Other sites have the same.
This is a time were everything is watched.
Why make it easier for them.
I live in the U.K. and I write this the hours after the bombing of London.
Make no mistake, this is all going to fall into the lap of Blair.
I.D. cards, security employment up the umpta,
All because we have allowed our military and our politicians to kill and maim others at will and expected nothing to come of it.
Hello America.
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RE: BoldAnd so the Republic dies, with a whimper.Bold Posted by: Erin on Jul 7, 2005 10:46 AM
I am mad as hell, too. When are enough of us "mad as hell" citizens going to get it together and do something?
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RE: The giraffe did it. Posted by: wannabersc on Jul 7, 2005 11:53 AM
It seems we do live in interesting times, eh? What was once a curse or sad prophecy is now our reality.
I have dived into the political game here in Washington State, did my part to see a Democratic Governer was elected, but lets face it; Local or State politics has little to do with the big problem, the Feds. All I can do right now is grow freash talent to represent my ideals.
Revolution is something I abhor. I know what the cost will be... I am not looking forward to the future of this Country with optimism.
May God help us.
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RE: Please keep us updated on this situation, Mr. Graham Posted by: philame on Jul 7, 2005 12:30 PM
Me too! I want an update.
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Talk of revolution is the mark of a law enforcement agent Posted by: Sojourner on Jul 7, 2005 1:01 PM
Dear Agent Provocateur,
I am aware that a standard method for discrediting dissent is to try to push it to extremes that all agree are beyond tolerance.
If that is not who you are, your comments still have that effect.
If that is who you are, bugger off!
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We Need Tightened Security in the US Posted by: Taj on Jul 7, 2005 1:17 PM
What we are forgetting is that we DO need tightened security in America. There ARE people who would love to blow up as much as possible here, killing as many as posible. This is NOT a right wing fantasy.
If there is a significant event such as a large nuclear or biological incident, you can BET the very Constitituion itself will VANISH OVERNIGHT. Look what happend when two buildings were destroyed and one damaged.
We cannot take a chance with our very Constitution, giving those who don't like it much anyway a chance to demolish the rest of it.
The problem is our "security" is dumb, very, very dumb. It can't stop a Mexican peasant from walking into the US. Its the "tweezer patrol" at the airports. Its FBI Terrorism "experts" who don't know who Osama's right hand man is, or the difference between Shites and Sunni Muslims.
We NEED some small, smart agency in government to take effective action to prevent a major terrorist incident.
If we don't, overnight America and her freedoms could become a footnote in the history books.
Bob
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Mr. & Mrs. J. Obelcz Posted by: mara obelcz on Jul 7, 2005 1:46 PM
Strange he can't understand why he's being targeted. He's a person for peace! I've read many an artical that are a mirror image of his situation. Hell, I've even read where the powers to be infiltrate peace groups! Anyone can understand just what a threatening bunch we can be to a government hell bent on world domination!
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Re "Tightened Security" etc Posted by: CJC on Jul 7, 2005 1:56 PM
To Bob and all worried about "security"
The problem with "tightened" "security" is that we don't know how to provide "security" much at all, and less how to "tighten" it. I don't mean to belittle the real dangers we all face, but security is relative at best. No one can be "safe."
And therefore we have to be very wary of actions like the "watch" and "no fly" lists that cannot be evaluated. Too many of our "security" measures are like looking for the keys under the lamppost because that's where the light is, not necessarily where the keys are likely to be. So John Graham is on a watch list but our ports are wide open. They screen the baggage but not the air freight. Feeling better now?
In Jan 2002 I took a flight abroad. The security personnel at Boston's airport were confiscating pen knives, nail clippers, small corkscrews etc etc. Then inside the "secure" area they were selling Nantucket Nectars in glass bottles! Go figure.
15 of 19 Sept 11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, but the first guest invited to a tete a tete dinner at the White House a day or two later was Prince Bandar, the Saudi ambassador (and long-time Bush family friend). Al Qaeda is an international terrorist organization, but we invaded Iraq, where there was no evidence of al Qaeda activity, and provided the chaotic conditions where the borders cannot be controlled and terrorism can thrive.
If we are too willing to compromise our freedoms, our rule of laws, our basic sense of fairness in being able to know why your name is on a list and able to clear yourself from it, then we've lost the "war on terrorism" by inviting it inside.
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RE: John Graham's wake-up call Posted by: royrogers on Jul 7, 2005 2:00 PM
Close the space between information and clearinghouse.
The above link outlines pretty good where the US is at and hints farily openly where you (as a citizenery) should go. "CJC"-you ask "But how do we get lawmakers' attention???? MY GOD MAN they are the enemy--almost to a person.
You remember the essay about hitlers time--something to the effect--"they came for the jews, but I wasn't a jew, so I said nothing and so and so on". Thats what's going on in the US RIGHT NOW!!!!!
Do you not think that it is possibly that this attack in London this morning is the event the powers that be have been waiting for to clamp down even more???
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RE: John Graham's wake-up call Posted by: royrogers on Jul 7, 2005 2:05 PM
No government can exist for a single moment without the cooperation of the people, willing or forced, and if people suddenly withdraw their cooperation in every detail, the government will come to a standstill — Ghandi
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RE: We Need Tightened Security in the US Posted by: DaftAida on Jul 7, 2005 2:06 PM
Where on Earth have you crawled out from? Do you not know yet, who and what was responsible for 911? Yes, the American people need BIG protection - from their American Government.
Get wise, learn what your fellow Americans have discovered by asking the right questions. For Godssake I'm in UK one of the most heavily censored places on earth and even I know this.
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RE: Watch List? Who are they watching? Posted by: AmericanVictim on Jul 7, 2005 2:15 PM
how many more days do we have left until Bush leaves office?
i'm counting the days.... counting the days..... it's all i can do, is count the days. i'm going crazy counting the days. especially since i had to tack on more days after november 2004. iti's like chinese water torture, counting the days.
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Did they let you on the plane? Posted by: jrh1972 on Jul 7, 2005 2:16 PM
According to your story, it looks like you did get a boarding pass, and apparently were able to fly. So my question is, what is the point of this list, then? Just to hassle you? You're on the list, whether you should be or not. If you're on the list by mistake then they should take you off, if you're not on it by mistake, then they shouldn't let you fly, since after all, that seems to be the point of the list.
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RE: e "Tightened Security" etc Posted by: royrogers on Jul 7, 2005 2:19 PM
Bingo, (to your whole post actually)--to your last paragraph specifically--if the "war on terrorism" is not lost at this very moment it's only gonna take a few more moments--UNLESS--a miracle happens.
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RE: Forget convincing the elected. ---> Elect the convinced. Posted by: LaVieja on Jul 7, 2005 3:08 PM
I'm with you, Fellow American!
Where, when, how do we get started? Do we need lawyers or can we draw up "real" documents just out of our own common sense?
This is how America Rocks!
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RE: what the legislature did not do... Posted by: LaVieja on Jul 7, 2005 3:10 PM
I hope you're not one of those people who pooh-poohed "Fahrentheit 911". My favorite bit was Michael, driving around the Capitol in a panel truck, reading the Patriot Act over a bullhorn to the hapless Congresspeople . . .
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RE: We Need Tightened Security in the US Posted by: Tone on Jul 7, 2005 4:08 PM
What you NEED is to stop doing things like invading countries using outright lies as justification. Maybe then people will stop wanting to blow up as much as possible.
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RE: the warning signs of fascism - Posted by: windy on Jul 7, 2005 4:14 PM
Yes, it gets worse and worse, everyday. But, the people are supporting this. Read royrogers Ghandi quote above. And I too, Nakis, am sick of congressional responses (only one of my senators bothers to respond)- it's enough to blow off writing, which could be the aim I suppose.
I interviewed with one of the "private contractors" hiring screeners for the TSA when they were first starting up. The gentleman interviewing me was making an effort to tell me what a great opportunity this was. I was informed that Airport security screening was only the beginning.
I was told the TSA had plans for and the company was looking forward to having security screeners at more than just airports. Yes indeed. They were looking forward to having security screeners at ports on waterways, on highways, and more. I was told a big bold bright future was available for security screeners because the opportunities would be endless.
The man's enthusiasm for the erosion of civil liberties and apparent revocation of the 4th amendment was not inspiring. I tried to keep my expression neutral as I asked if this was really something they planned on. Searching people before they could go boating or driving? Enthusiastic yes! For our own protection and security! Maybe even searching us for walking down the street at random checkpoints! Hurray for security!
The whole enthusiastic presentation really creeped me out. They really are looking forward to eliminating what liberties we have left, in the name of security, and they have plenty of brainwashed pod people who actually have been convinced that this is a good idea.
This is serious scarey stuff, folks. In the name of security. Security screenings at ports, on highways, at random checkpoints along city streets. It's all part of the plan, they really intend for this to happen. Just to keep us safe. Which it won't of course, but it will make us less free. A lot less free. So it's really about control. Don't let it happen.
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RE: Did they let you on the plane? Posted by: wannabersc on Jul 7, 2005 4:39 PM
Yeah, a real Catch 22. Either they're fools, or they are criminals.
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RE: Happy to be watched! Posted by: windy on Jul 7, 2005 5:10 PM
I think times are much worse now than those of McCarthyism and FBI surveillance of civil rights leaders and activists of the 60s and 70s. For one thing there was an end to those times, and we're just getting started. Too many people think it is ok - we need to fight the evil people, the terrorists - so we need to have these restrictions on our civil liberties. Do you know the military is now getting involved? Check out Common Dreams headlines for July 6th: "Military Expands Homeland Efforts" - a Washington Post article. You get the military involved (which I strongly believe already is), in these fear-ridden times and we are in trouble. Jobs for people! - troops and defense contractors - to protect the Homeland!
Do you see how affected the author of this article is, and others who have posted, by the no-fly list? Maybe it's because of this, maybe because of that. It's very consuming - and, they haven't done anything wrong! I know, I'm under surveillance (it's true). My best answer to "why?" is they're training, using me (without my friggin' permission). The first component is I moved to a red, rural, behind-the-times, "support our troops," small Texas town. I have hundreds of stories (yes, see? this IS happening). I'm waiting for more of this to come out - I don't think I'm the only one.
I think that while "they" continue to drag us down, in the meantime the rich will be getting richer and the rich will be the ones to leave the country. I hope that as more people become affected, more people will resist.
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RE: BoldAnd so the Republic dies, with a whimper.Bold Posted by: windy on Jul 7, 2005 5:25 PM
Well like the Grandmother above I won't be hiding my opposition either despite the consequences (justice!). We're here, on the Internet, but we're miles apart geographically, so far. Look at all the people who marched in Edinburgh this weekend, something like 200,000? Wouldn't that be great, to be with so many like-minded people?
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RE: A Fascist Farce Posted by: Jersey Devil on Jul 7, 2005 5:43 PM
I have some bad news for you, this already is a fascist state. The government has secret courts, concentration/detention camps, secret inprisonment, control of the press, and the latest - the FBI's new secret police for "domestic anti-terror". Our most basic constitutional rights are under attack and the White House is lying its communal ass off. The good old USA is protecting us by declaring preemptive wars, rendering innocent people to secret prisons for torture, and has authorized torture by American forces around the world. The only thing left is for Bush to reverse field and use fear to institute a military draft to replace the troops he has squandered in Iraq and Afganistan.
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RE: You Are Sooo Guilty Posted by: Jersey Devil on Jul 7, 2005 5:48 PM
Well loosing the presidential election didn't wake him up. If he isn't part of the solution, then he is the problem. It is up to Massachusetts to catch his attention by throwing him out of his Senate seat. Bye bye Bozo!
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Yet another Laura Lippscomb Posted by: pmurray on Jul 7, 2005 6:19 PM
Yet another Laura Lippscomb, who didn't see the wrongness of the war until her own kid was killed.
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RE: Talk of revolution is the mark of a law enforcement agent Posted by: apodapa on Jul 7, 2005 6:51 PM
You live your life, I'll live mine. Stop telling people what to do. Unless of course, you are Bill Belichek, coach of the New England Patriots. If that's who you are keep doing what you're doing and win another Super Bowl.
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Apparently a tad more angry than you Posted by: no666 on Jul 7, 2005 9:47 PM
You're all so . . . nice, golly gee whiz, about watching a bunch of power hungry bastards piss on every last civil liberty that you supposedly value.
Oh, by all means let's vote them out of office. Silly children, by the time the next presidential election rolls around, the Bush Regieme will have decided it's a matter of national security NOT to have elections.
If things continue at their present decline, I strongly suspect the only thing that will get their attention is blood.
I propose to designate the next April 1st as "Kill a Kongressman Day" Or sooner, if you prefer. :-)
But if you simply *must* eliminate blood letting as a social political art form, then I would also have to concur with LaVieja's "impeach every damn one of 'em and restore our civil rights" campaign. Boringly plebian*, perhaps, but effective.
*C'mon, isn't a pitchfork up the ass a lot more visually appealing? :-)
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a tad more angry Posted by: bansidh@citlink.net on Jul 7, 2005 10:14 PM
no666, I understand your anger , but, resorting to violence ALWAYS leads to more violence. Following the rule of law is the only way to deal with this lawless pack of thugs running our government. If you resort to their tactics , how are you any different from them? I not only think they used 911, I am all but positive our government had a big hand in it, but heaping evil on top of evil won't help us.
So how is that possible when they control the ballot box (electronic voting machines and their software) and have dozens of other ways to manipulate (steal) elections? (Just consider the massive Republican assault on black voters in 2004, and the more localized prequel [rehearsal] in 2000.)
The crime of the century -- indeed the preeminent crime of our nation's entire history so far -- happened when Bush and Co. hijacked the system and stole the election by stealing and reassigning votes. And yet so many of our citizens remain in a state of denial ("that could never happen in America!") and the corporate media mind control machine keeps on presenting us only with highly filtered fascimiles of the truth, outright distortions and propaganda, and an endless series of mental junk food news extravanganzas... Runaway Bride, Michael Jackson, Terry Schiavo invasion of dignity, etc., etc... ad nauseum.
What's left when you've lost the vote?
hmmm?
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Uh, BOB: Can you cash a REALITY CHECK ??? Posted by: Meremark on Jul 7, 2005 11:52 PM
I am not one for name-calling, but your stupidity is so telling and so common I am going to make an exception and throw my keyboard through your ego.
Look. THREE skyscrapers pre-loaded with demolition explosives several weeks prior to the Nine Eleven Op (n.e.o.-con, that's what it stands for ! ) takeover -- pre-loaded with explosives by men in white coveralls seen accessing the elevator shafts that summer, according to the testimony of several of the buildings' regular workers who said they didn't know the men or their reason to be there -- THREE skyscrapers were demolished and imploded in Manhattan (see: 911review.org, and other sites), in the n.e.o. CON job. Murdering 3000 people. WHY ?? To TERRIFY YOU shitless and immobile when they went on a war-crime spree invading other countries for oil. The third skyscraper your opium TV keeps forgetting to mention, called WTC 7, include 4 floors of NYC FBI office, 2 or more floors of the New England CIA office (the existence of which was a secret until then), the NYC emergency response command center, and several floors of the entire archives of the S.E.C.. In short: ALL the EVIDENCE of the crime. Bloooey! Unexpectedly exploded and collapsed in on itself about 4:00 that afternoon.
There is more, so damningly much more. (See photo of Pentagon hole where, you must admit the plane don't fit: http://0911.site.voila.fr/index2.htm .) Look at WHY? (above), again and then recall the ANTHRAX letters. To the U.S. CONGRESS !! And THE MEDIA !! Scared them shitless !!
People trying to tell you to look at the evidence which persuaded them ARE NOT KOOKS. You are DOING THE RIGHT THING, getting here, posting your comment, collecting information -- but BY DAMN GIVE UP their BRAINWASHING.
WE do NOT NEED ANY Security EXCEPT common citizen vigilance, nevermind MORE Security.
BOB, there ARE. NO. TERRORISTS. It is OUR OWN PEOPLE doing this. All the BOMBS and murders ARE your TAX DOLLARS at Work.
Now, TAKE THAT INFORMATION and TELL YOUR FRIENDS. Talk about it. And they tell two friends, and they tell two .... NOBODY is GOING TO DO IT FOR US. Quit begging the media and begging Congress. Dammit, DUMP THEM and JOIN the PEOPLE.
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RE: Elect IMPEACHERS. How 2 Start? BLOG UP. A petition website. Posted by: Meremark on Jul 8, 2005 12:42 AM
A little ol' website, somewhere, anywhere, promoting the idea.
- - - - -
WANTED: 435 Candidates for Congress '06. One in EVERY DISTRICT. Must sign and pledge If Elected TO UPHOLD The CONTRACT With DEMOCRACY.
Contract With Democracy: one word -- IMPEACH.
- - - - -
Take that modest little bit and PASS IT ON. Cut-n-Paste THIS WHEREVER You Go. Tell family friends and neighbors and Tell them to Tell others. TALK ABOUT IT. OPENLY. (Shhhhh Don't Tell the Media. Or Democrats. Or Republicans. LET THEM CATCH UP with the MOVEMENT and the Story.) The INTERNET Now can DO IT. BLOG The VOTE. Good People will ADD Good Ideas along the way. NO LEADER, Just a Keep It Simple POLICY
=-=-= IMPEACH =-=-=
Impeach Bush Impeach Cheney then the PRESIDENT IS the Speaker of the House among the 435 candidates !! Think about that.
Then go on Impeaching. All the cabinet Secretaries and Appointees. Go back and get Ashcroft. Indict. Convict. Imprison.
Then IMPEACH Supreme Court Justices. Start with Scalia. (New president nominates replacements.) The cowardly MAJORITY in this great Country WOULD be Ferocious with SUPPORT. The RELiGIOUS PERVERTED Splinter Group would SHUT UP and SLINK OFF when they saw the revolution get rolling. The WORLD would LOVE IT.
Besides -- IT IS LEGAL to Elect OUR Congress.
Do not command military decisions -- withdrawal, etc. SIMPLY ZERO the BUDGET. (Leave enough for All Commitments to Veterans.) DEFUND Active Military Killing -- Let them figure it out.
REPEAL EVERY BUSH LAW.
People, PEOPLE -- THERE. ARE. NO. TERRORISTS !! Those are OUR GUYS, In Costume. War Gaming both sides MAKES WAR LAST LONGER. The BOMBS and the BODIES are OUR TAX DOLLARS At WORK.
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Misappropriating 'Patriotism' to disguise 'nationalism' Posted by: TrueUSPatriot on Jul 8, 2005 5:21 AM
Not only has the word "Patriotism" been abused and bandied about as a club to stir nationalistic tendencies, but "Enemies of the State" has been misappropriated to mean 'Enemies of those controlling the US", not necessarily indicating anyone who's actually ~an real threat~ to the nation. In fact, the term now appears valid for those who would challenge the entrenched threat currently occupying our government, a threat which has severely limited the founding tenets and principles of our nation.
...a growing number of citizens have recognized this, and are now taking action (check it out here).
The first thing, IMO, that we must address is the complacency of the people and the press, when it comes to letting little digs and jabs, misdirections, and misleading statements to pass by unopposed. If we give an inch, those who are utilizing those linguistic tools will increase their stranglehold on the abused version of the language, and straightening out the warp they have introduced will become far more difficult.
Good luck and best wishes on correcting your situation. I sincerely hope that you can help us find a way to clarify and contain the rampant misuse of the watch lists.
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elsie Posted by: trurel on Jul 8, 2005 6:03 AM
Sounds familiar. In 1994 I was recommended for a teacher's job in the Detroit School System, where I had made applications and heard nothing; when I investigated, I found that I was on a list because I had been arrested at a protest in Washington, D.C. 5 years before.
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Time to become a "Conspiracy Theorist" Posted by: plunger on Jul 8, 2005 7:04 AM
As your story illustrates, it's high time to think with a new point of view about your government. If you are not prone to think in terms of conspiracy theories, you can never understand the truth. Of course there is a conspiracy to strip you of your rights and create the conditions for a war without end which enriches the rich at the expense of the poor. You worked in the government - you know what they are capable of, and you should know that a "plan" IS a "conspiracy."
The term "Conspiracy Theory" is used to debunk any attemt to understand a PLAN. It is used most vociferously when those who are determined to expose the truth of THE PLAN are actually making headway at getting to the truth.
Another tactic is to accuse those who are getting too close of being anti-Semetic, as most PLANS presently being carried out are done by NeoCONS who are under the direction of AIPAC and their overlords.
If you get too close to the truth, they will shout you down with words including conspiracy, anti-Semitism, and even throw in UFOs and tin-foil hats for good measure.
When all of these efforts fail, they will simply blow shit up and take the focus off their own crimes:
Given how desparate the criminals have become, what lengths might they go to in order to save their own skins?
AIPAC under the gun for Spying. Rove under the gun for Treason. Bush on the verge of Impeachment. 9/11 truths on the verge of being told. Time for a crisis...time for fear...time for martial law to be imposed...time to shut down the internet.
All of the New World Order's best laid plans are under threat of being exposed. Time for terror:
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TSA has gotten me too ... Posted by: Lindie on Jul 8, 2005 7:12 AM
My sympathies to everyone on the list - you'll not even be able to get off unless the current cretins in office are removed.
We shall all have to speak with our neighbors and friends - it will be difficult, but we must speak out to even begin to right this end-run around our constitution that is called the "Patriot Act". We must stand against the government's "anyone who doesn't agree with us is our enemy" policies, or our nation is lost. I sympathize with Mr. Graham, even though his is the sin being the ostrich with its head in the sand, until they got hiim, anyway.
I got myself on TSA's hit list also, by traveling too close to 9/11, by traveling to my family on one-way tickets (sick and dying or dead relatives, funerals), and by writing letters criticizing administration policies and engaging in activism to preserve our fast-dwindling rights. We can work together to stop this assault on our contry by joining and being activie in groups supporting our rights and constitution against the predations of the quickly-becoming-fascists in high office. We must, for our own sakes.
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what other lists are there? Posted by: foofoo on Jul 8, 2005 7:24 AM
I work at a "secondary financial institution". We cash checks, sell money orders, western union, and payday loans. After 9/11 we now have a government mandated program on our computer systems that checks the names of every customer new and old.
We are required to record the first and last name of everyone who buys a money order, no matter how much its for. If a customer is flagged by the system we have "protocol" to follow. I am not allowed to disclose these things to our customers.
I just wonder if we have to do these things, who else does to?
I wouldn't be surprised if the grocery store has a watch list too.
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What happened to freedom and civil liberties? Posted by: Tonya on Jul 8, 2005 8:10 AM
My husband is also on the no-fly list, and like the author he has to travel for his job. He has missed flights, meetings, etc, when it takes too long to get FBI clearance. The head of TSA at JFK knows him well because he is called every time my husband tries to check in for a flight, but has no power to clear him to board.
What's frustrating is that the no-fly list only takes into account first and last name, not middle name, date of birth, social security number, passport number, etc. So everyone with his first and last name (it's a very common name) is supposedly on the no-fly list.
Lufthansa told him that the name "Jurgen Schmitt" is on the no-fly list, and of course every flight they have a Jurgen Schmitt who is on the list (it's one of the most common men's names in Germany).
Bush keeps talking about wanting to spread democracy and freedom to other countries, but we don't seem to have them here. Once civil liberties are gone, it's really hard to get them back.
I'm willing to undergo additional security procedures if those procedures are actually making us safer, but the no-fly list is not. The list is something like 88 pages and has thousands of names. Meanwhile, commercial cargo that travels on passenger planes is still not screened at all. The chemical and nuclear plants are still unsecured as well.
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RE: Misappropriating 'Patriotism' to disguise 'nationalism' Posted by: royrogers on Jul 8, 2005 8:35 AM
In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary, ``patriotism'' is defined as the last resort of the scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer, I beg to submit that it is the first. — Ambrose Bierce
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RE: What happened to freedom and civil liberties? Posted by: royrogers on Jul 8, 2005 8:51 AM
Tonya--you and others like you seem unable or unwilling (for whatever reason) to aknowledge the reality of your fate as US citizens. The US population is being led/coerced to a point at which there will be no returning. When that point is reached, where the "powers that be" feel confident that they can demand subservience without resistence or at least minimal and non effective resistance, then the boom will be lowered and ALL the freedoms once enjoyed by Americans will be suspended--you will be slaves and subjects of the emperor. ALL HAIL bushy!!!!!!!
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That's just the beginning Posted by: CyberChas on Jul 8, 2005 11:35 AM
So, Mr. Graham doesn't think he did anything wrong, but can't fly as easily on planes any more, and could his flying rights TURNED TOTALLY OFF at a moment's notice.
That's a good FIRST STEP in controlling him.
But, he could still get to his engagements via bus, train or even car, so they haven't COMPLETELY controlled his ability to talk his dangerous "world peace" message.
Now that 7/7 has happened, expect similar "safe lists" for trains, planes and automobiles (toll road checks? interstate security checks? Etc.).
We can't have all these rabble-rousers just going wherever they please, can we? Anybody who would discuss "peace" is obviously a sympathizer of the terrorists who would probably rather give them "therapy" than kill them without trial. Hell, this fellow is probably against torturing anybody who has visited a "radical" website like http://www.911truth.org. These people are DANGEROUS, and should be kept under a VERY short leash.
Welcome to Germany in 1935. The camps will be open soon.
Don't worry, if you think you'll use the Internet to communicate and outflank the theo-neo-con controlled right wing mass media spin machine. The Gov. has just said that won't give up control over the DNS computers that route Internet traffic. (It's a bit geeky, details here) but the basic bottom line is that they can "turn off" any website they want to at the push of a button. At any given moment (of their choosing) somebody typing in www.alternet.org would get a blank screen or be directed to www.fbi.gov/internet_policy.
And really, isn't that a GOOD thing? Terrorists could be putting dangerous un-American things on www.buzzwatch.com or www.rawstory.com or www.truthout.org, and innocent American citizens could accidentally getting INFECTED with that anti-Government filth. Maybe Justice Gonzalez and Justice Owens under Chief Justice Scalia will overturn that -- don't hold your breath.
f you get a chance, rather than watching CNN or MSNBC or PBS, take a few moments and read a little bit about the events leading UP to the rise of Hitler. You can pick it up at the republic collapses if you want to skip the early parts.
ISTANBUL, Turkey (AP) - First one sheep jumped to its death. Then stunned Turkish shepherds, who had left the herd to graze while they had breakfast, watched as nearly 1,500 others followed, each leaping off the same cliff, Turkish media reported.
In the end, 450 dead animals lay on top of one another in a billowy white pile, the Aksam newspaper said. Those who jumped later were saved as the pile got higher and the fall more cushioned, Aksam reported.
Wellll......
Will this be our fate, just one after another, following the lead sheep over the cliff. That's what they hope for, that we'll just follow mindlessly.
We have to stop following them blindly. They are not working for us.
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Mr Graham should know better Posted by: Dad.don on Jul 8, 2005 1:24 PM
Mr Graham...if you had the clearance you cite, you should also know it's a security violation to reveal the fact that you have it or have had it.
I've had the same hassles as you, in spite of possession of clearances that require polygraph and recent FBI EBIs. I'm over 70.
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RE: That's just the beginning Posted by: royrogers on Jul 8, 2005 2:19 PM
The structures already exist--how many military bases are being closed across the US homeland-choke-homeland-that slogan had a sinister purpose too ya know--I digress, wasn't it 37 bases? (rummy says he is cutting back cause ya just dont need that big of an armed force and so he can save money for the taxpayer. Never mind the money that is being thrown around blowing to smitheerens anybody and everybody that gets in the way, elsewhere).
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You poor clueless leftists Posted by: bobw on Jul 8, 2005 3:15 PM
You poor clueless leftists still don't get it.
This is not Conspiracy Theory.
This is Conspiracy Reality.
How much you wanna bet that AlterNet and ZNet are your Gatekeepers of the Left?
Take a look at Conspiracy Planet
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RE: BoldAnd so the Republic dies, with a whimper.Bold Posted by: nardo on Jul 8, 2005 3:57 PM
I totally agree, I've seen this comming for quite a while. We're going to end up a third world slave continent who'se citizens sole purpose will be to wait hand and foot on the rich and powerful with no voice, rights, or protections. fly? you've got to be kidding me, where will you go but to another Bush or Cheny plantation to take care of their household and chilluns.
RE: Misappropriating 'Patriotism' to disguise 'nationalism' Posted by: TrueUSPatriot on Jul 8, 2005 4:43 PM
That's an excellent example of the differing applications of meaning.
Here's a 'quote within a quote':
"Confusing patriotism with unconditional support for government policy does core damage to the meaning of citizenship, especially during time of war. In 1736 Lord Bolingbroke identified the essence of patriotic fervor as devotion to the public good, whether as official or citizen. To uphold a policy that is believed harmful to the country is then, with such an understanding, highly unpatriotic, exhibiting either weakness of spirit or fear of consequences." - Richard Falk, Professor of international relations, Princeton University
It was part of his response to the question "What is Patriotism? ", posted July 15, 1991 (July 15, 1991 issue) of The Nation.
There are many perspectives.
The ones which fall closer to supporting the concept as proposed by Lord Bolingbroke are the ones which we hold to represent 'A True US Patriot'.
...but I like your quote. ;)
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from the other side Posted by: just tina on Jul 8, 2005 5:17 PM
My heart goes out to you, and I could see being nervous about the government and your current themes. It's natural to focus on "why me" in such situations. (I thank you for your ox goring confession); BUT let's look at this from the other side:
there is a name that is purportedly the name of a terrorist on a list
you have the same name
Is there no more information on this terrorist? How can they tell a person is a terrorist only by name? If this is a person being investigated by all of Homeland Security and the FBI, probably Interpol, etc., is there no other identifying information? A mug shot perhaps? A driver's license photo? Country of origin? Height? Hair color? Eye Color?
No?? Just a name. Huh. The authorities must have consulted an oracle or something.
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from the other side Posted by: just tina on Jul 8, 2005 5:19 PM
My heart goes out to you, and I could see being nervous about the government and your current themes. It's natural to focus on "why me" in such situations. (I thank you for your ox goring confession); BUT let's look at this from the other side:
there is a name that is purportedly the name of a terrorist on a list
you have the same name
Is there no more information on this terrorist? How can they tell a person is a terrorist only by name? If this is a person being investigated by all of Homeland Security and the FBI, probably Interpol, etc., is there no other identifying information? A mug shot perhaps? A driver's license photo? Country of origin? Height? Hair color? Eye Color?
No?? Just a name. Huh. The authorities must have consulted an oracle or something.
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RE: what other lists are there? Posted by: windy on Jul 8, 2005 6:13 PM
Yes, you are so right. The hardware store - might want to buy a timer...or something. I know law enforcement can simply ask a store owner to keep a watch, and people will do so to help the "authorites" "protect" the Homeland. There are places that I have felt watched and refuse to go back - I will not do business there (if I can help it).
So many smart people in the world and this is how we handle terrorism - but then this isn't about terrorism is it?
Thanks for speaking out.
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RE: What happened to freedom and civil liberties? Posted by: windy on Jul 8, 2005 6:53 PM
I think you're right, it's just that it is not easy to resist when you are so outnumbered and you are not a Mother Jones. In my rural area people go along to get along. So, they are not one of THOSE people who can't be trusted for "National Security" reasons. At the bureauacracy that I work at we are constantly changing our passwords, and warned not to have ones that people might guess - because THEY might try to guess our password and do "harmful" things. Everybody knows everybody in our offices, but they make you be suspicious of people, and because everyone wants to fit in they go along with everything so they won't be ONE OF THEM (like the "terrorists"!).
Things have gotten so bad and people just go along with it - it's the "us and them" thing.
So, what I get from your post is the need to point out to people how these"supicions," and loss of civil liberties, affect us ALL. There are bad people, but it's NOT "us and them," it's US. We need more people aware how this affects them and then, more resitance.
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RE: That's just the beginning Posted by: windy on Jul 8, 2005 7:10 PM
They've just started random car checks at the airport in Austin. (Orange alert precaution.) You can avoid this by driving to the parking garage and walking.
Austin is one of the few places left in Texas that is pretty progressive.
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xargaw Posted by: xargaw on Jul 8, 2005 9:00 PM
Mr. Grahams problem is simple to comprehend. First, he works for the "common good." Second, he promotes activism to do good. Both are reviled by the current administration. He is a perfect candidate for harrassment and attempted obstruction of his good works.
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Time to act Posted by: Ann Weaver Hart on Jul 8, 2005 9:19 PM
If not now, when?
If the congress is swamped with phone calls, faxes, emails and letters, something will happen. But they have to be swamped, and it has to happen NOW.
Call your Rep. Write both senators. Better yet, call, e-mail, fax and write all three. Then ask your friends and family to do the same. The Jews yelled "Crucify him!" Americans need to yell "Impeach him!" as loud and for as long as it takes to make it happen, and now is the time to act.
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Take heart Posted by: Earthwatch on Jul 8, 2005 9:27 PM
I am both a sincere civil liberties activist and also an employee of the airline. Despite having being checked against the list, if you eventually flew that means you were not on a "No Fly" list. Very simply, if you were you would not have been cleared to travel and your day would have ended very differently. However, your name (or one similar enough to yours) must have been on some list in question. This doesn't mean it is you, individually, under suspicion - - it just means that someone with your same name (or similar) is a person of question. It needed to be established that you were not that person, and then you were free to fly.
I know the process can be unnerving, and I know the airlines and even the TSA screeners at the airport often have very little helpful information to share. Even once you finally connect to the TSA agents who do understand the system, they may only be able to verify that it isn't you who is in question, but you still may have to have this verified each time you fly.
There may be relief in sight, however, but at the price of less privacy. For example the "registered traveler" program is being tested in select airports. Passengers who submit to a background check may be issued a state-of-the-art biometric ID card (recognizing fingerprints, iris scan, etc) which can be used for speedy check-in and express security check points. There are a number of articles available on the subject, or you can visit the TSA website to learn more about it.
Of course, flashing this ID card also means that your every move is easily trackable (personally, I'd prefer being selected for extra screening every so often). Anyway, I hope this information is helpful.
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Have you heard of "Suspicious Activity Report" Posted by: foofoo on Jul 8, 2005 11:25 PM
This is probibly one way people end up on the terrorist wach list
"The SAR should be filed if the bank knows, suspects, or has reason to suspect that:
1. The transaction involves funds derived from illegal activities or is intended or conducted in order to hide or disguise funds or assets derived from illegal activities (including, without limitation, the ownership, nature, source, location, or control of such funds or assets) as part of a plan to violate or evade any federal law or regulation or to avoid any transaction reporting requirement under federal law;
2. The transaction is designed to evade any regulations promulgated under the Bank Secrecy Act; or
3. The transaction has no business or apparent lawful purpose or is not the sort of transaction in which the particular customer would normally be expected to engage, and the bank knows of no reasonable explanation for the transaction after examining the available facts, including the background and possible purpose of the transaction."
"Confidentiality Of Reports
Suspicious activity reports are confidential. Any bank subpoenaed or otherwise requested to disclose a suspicious activity report or the information contained in a suspicious activity report shall decline to produce the suspicious activity report or to provide any information that would disclose that a suspicious activity report has been prepared or filed."
It is illegal to tell someone if you are submitting a SAR on them. If a transaction is large (for us over 2000.00) you have to find out where they got the money and why they are performing the transaction. If the answers arent good enough, you have to file the SAR.
for more information on the bank secrecy act please read
RE: Uh, BOB: Can you cash a REALITY CHECK ??? Posted by: icebox on Jul 9, 2005 1:47 AM
you need a reality check. hogwash.
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How much good can a list like this do anyway? Posted by: mikemikef on Jul 9, 2005 3:58 AM
Why would a professional terrorist use their real name anyway?
Have we not publicized the watch list enough to keep the amature terrorist off our airplanes and the proffesional terrorist informed?
Would professional terrorist not create a new identity or steal a safe identity?
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RE: you make no sense Posted by: apodapa on Jul 9, 2005 4:05 AM
What do you mean? Are you dumb enough to think Kerry is unanimously elected? Oh, wait, I see, You are from New Jersey. You are that dumb.
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RE: Chickens come home to roost Posted by: apodapa on Jul 9, 2005 4:07 AM
no matter what you think, you are never ficticious on a computer. You can always be traced.
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WISH YOU WOULDN'T GIVE UP Posted by: balu on Jul 9, 2005 6:56 AM
"...I know what I will do. If my name is not removed completely from the Watch List in 45 days I will use every resource I've got to challenge the government of a country that I love and have served. ..."
so what's so special about "45 days" ? ... is not what happened to you a blatant disregard of all that is right? a move toward a police state ? a tear in the constitution ?
I am not on the no-fly list yet (that I know of) --- BUT THIS IS WRONG. And just because they take some names off does NOT mean that the rest of the names are "on their own" .
whether they take your name off in 45 days or not, there are still those incarcerated without charges, held without recourse to justice and on "no-fly lists" without explanations.
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RE: How much good can a list like this do anyway? Posted by: Earthwatch on Jul 9, 2005 7:11 AM
Your right - - common names with fake IDs are being used which is exactly why John Graham needed to be checked to be sure he really was one of the safe "John Grahams" out there. It wasn't him they are after (or he wouldn't have been allowed to fly) it was someone with his (or a similar) name who must be a person of question.
In the entire history of airport security, though, I don't think they've ever caught a terrorist before they boarded... So even though I don't feel the author is being individually victimized himself, I think the purpose behind the elaborate show of security at airports is more to condition society as a whole to submit to these kind of unauthorized searches as an acceptable part of life.
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RE: What happened to freedom and civil liberties? Posted by: royrogers on Jul 9, 2005 7:19 AM
Yes--and you need a leader of significant stature--so far as I know not one such person has publicly opposed bush's policies let alone denounce the whole debacle of bush's insane movement. Hopefully someone will step up.
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Re: How much good can a list like this do anyway? Posted by: Earthwatch on Jul 9, 2005 7:22 AM
Your right - - fake IDs with common names are being used which is exactly why John Graham needed to be checked to be sure he really was one of the safe "John Grahams" out there. It wasn't him they are after (or he wouldn't have been allowed to fly) it was someone with his (or a similar) name who must be a person of question.
In the entire history of airport security, though, I don't think they've ever caught a terrorist before they boarded... So even though I don't feel the author is being individually victimized himself, I think the purpose behind the elaborate show of security at airports is more to condition society as a whole to submit to these kind of unauthorized searches as an acceptable part of life.
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RE: WISH YOU WOULDN'T GIVE UP Posted by: royrogers on Jul 9, 2005 7:33 AM
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out.
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RE: WISH YOU WOULDN'T GIVE UP Posted by: balu on Jul 9, 2005 7:50 AM
It's actually sadder than that. first they came for the socialists ... then they got me OFF the list ... and I will stop speaking. because I am NOT on their list of "socialists" ...
it's not going to be over for a long time ... and "I got my problem straightened out and you are on your own" does not solve the cause of the problem.
Peace
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RE: You Are Sooo Guilty Posted by: diamondvajra on Jul 9, 2005 8:59 AM
Well, I concure for what good that does us. If I am still in the US I will work for Wes Clark in '08. He understands who these people are and what they are about. He has seen fascism and, having heard him speak many times in '04, he has my support. He is smart, speaks four languages, has lived overseas. I know that people think he screwed up in Kosavo but read Genocide by Samantha someone or other and see what she has to say about our guy Wes
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DROP the idea of convincing the elected. ELECT the Convinced. Posted by: Meremark on Jul 9, 2005 10:42 AM
The ones in office are watching their own interests, not ours.
Our interests and our work is to IMPEACH and imprison the war criminals, and undo the totalitarian laws they've signed.
Spending energy of persuasion to get 'them' to do 'our' work is wasted energy, and sort of a cop out. It is our work to do.
Spend energy either running for office or giving props to someone you know who could run for office and fulfill our interests, you or someone who GOES IN knowing what to do and doesn't have to have us or someone explain it to them.
Besides, stopping paying attention to the preeners and posers currently in office, and turning to ourselves to start talking plans-of-action, and being our own lawmakers -- stops giving incumbents the spotlight. They hate that.
Don't go to them. Let them come to us, if they want to know stuff. Such as: they're fired. There's a new power set to replace them: democracy.
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RE: Mr Graham should know better Posted by: staugustus on Jul 9, 2005 10:47 AM
you can place these clearances on resumes, especially when applying for goverement/defense contractor jobs. Not much problem there.
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RE: Yet another Laura Lippscomb Posted by: staugustus on Jul 9, 2005 10:55 AM
its easy to be a flag-waver until it hits home, and then you see the reality of it all. OR be expendable in a war that never was a threat to us all. Because in a war, all military are expendable, thats the unwritten rule.
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RE: You're either with us or.............................! Posted by: staugustus on Jul 9, 2005 11:04 AM
Of course. If you disagree with anythiong the Bush Administration tells you, You are not a "team player" (what a laugh!!). They do not want intelligent people to argue, discuss, or debate any issues, because you might find out the truth, especially about 9/11, the Iraq War, and a host of other lies. You are questioning their authority, and yet we keep electing them to office, or the ones who can do the least damage. Your entire family is a terrorist if they do not agree with the Bush Admin. or take issue with other matters that involve privacy or liberties. If you wantr to feel safe, move to Russia, the KGB still offers the same friendly service, under a new name.
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RE: You're either with us or.............................! Posted by: staugustus on Jul 9, 2005 11:08 AM
Guess What. Religion has been used for centuries to impose its will on many people, or stifle independent, creative thought. Study History and it was used to control people's minds, while the Kings controled the people's physical existance. Many leaders hide behind religion, to get what they want, or tell others what they want to hear, so it gets them elected.
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RE: Apparently a tad more angry than you Posted by: Royaras on Jul 9, 2005 11:25 AM
Dude, I completely understand your anger, but seriously, did you not come away with any moral to this story?
Advocating violence against a government official is a sure way to find yourself on some very unpleasant lists.
BTW, as a woman of Middle Eastern descent (especially because my passport still has my maiden name), I anticipated (and received) some delays and hassles travelling with my family post-9/11. However, my uncle (who Americanized his name when he became a naturalized citizen 25 years ago) recently discovered that he was on the No Fly List when he attempted to fly to Las Vegas for a 36 hour gambling turnaround. Since he carried only a small bag with him, he was subjected to a humiliating, intensely personal search that lasted four hours before being turned away. My uncle has never been involved in any groups that would cause alarm, and the only criteria we could think of to place him on that list is the fact that he was born in Iran and is a practicing Muslim.
My father brought his family from Iran to escape the oppressive theocracy instituted by Khomeini. How sad that the land that promised so much liberty is slowly turning as oppressive as that which they sought to escape.
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RE: What happened to freedom and civil liberties? Posted by: windy on Jul 9, 2005 11:27 AM
It's a tough establishment to go up against. I recently heard an interview on Democracy Now with three guests, including a conservative one. Rep. Conyers name (one of the leaders trying to do something with the Downing Street memos - hold someone accountable) was mentioned and this conservative guest downplayed him: Oh, that's John Conyers, he doesn't exactly have alot of power. Everything that gets brought up seems to get downplayed.
But, I think you're right, a Leader for us to rally with, including our politicians (for more solidarity). Right now the Right's got the support. George Bush! Incredible.
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RE: Take heart Posted by: windy on Jul 9, 2005 12:45 PM
I doubt I am on the No-Fly list (I'll find out before the end of the year). I am much more concerned with being tracked on a flight, is that an undercover agent sitting next to me, or over there? Why the air marshalls on this flight? (What you looking at?) At least the No-Fly list is blatant - you are a suspect or not.
I appreciate you passing this information on, and glad that someone like you is in the airline system. This ID card you mention is very bothersome. How is it that we are allowing this to go on? There's no need for this information to go anywhere but for the sole purpose of you are ok to travel. The end. Instead, a purchase here, a purchase there, a micro-chip in the rental car and you're tracked all the way. Unless someone is strongly supected of criminal activity, no one should be tracked. And then, either figure it out, are they ok or not, and then do something about it or drop it. It's like toys for law enforcement to play with (and jobs to make the toys). Virtually no one in the legislature is doing their job and checking these anti-democratic policies. So, people think oh, it must be ok, and this is unfortunately something we need to do to combat terrorism. Then we will (won't) be safe and free (not).
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RE: You Are Sooo Guilty Posted by: BlueStateBitch on Jul 9, 2005 2:46 PM
Well, I concure for what good that does us. If I am still in the US I will work for Wes Clark in '08. He understands who these people are and what they are about. He has seen fascism and, having heard him speak many times in '04, he has my support. He is smart, speaks four languages, has lived overseas. I know that people think he screwed up in Kosavo ...
I just met a guy from Kosovo yesterday. He says that the Albanians in Kosovo all have American flags and pics of Bill Clinton in their homes because we came in and stopped the killing. So maybe we didn't screw up that badly.
No pics of Bush there. They hate him.
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Ideas with handles Posted by: 42Years on Jul 9, 2005 4:15 PM
Excellent story of a post-9/11 plan gone horribly wrong. First-rate links. Perhaps you can collect a petition of people who have been in a similar situation and present it to your elected officials. All you need to do is get the attention of the right person or group on the internet to sponsor such an initiative and it may fly.
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RE: e: How much good can a list like this do anyway? Posted by: 42Years on Jul 9, 2005 4:17 PM
I am being conditioned to NOT use public transportation or my local library.
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RE: Forget convincing the elected. ---> Elect the convinced. Posted by: Windstalker on Jul 9, 2005 9:44 PM
ONE thing is for sure...
Electing the Big Two (Dems & Repubs) hasn't helped anything. We continue to slip deeper into a statist, repressive, totalitarian state with each election.
Voting for the Big Two IS NOT WORKING !!!
Einstein once said " A definition of insanity is to continue to do the same thing expecting different results"
It's time to do something different.
Myself ... I've been voting Libertarian.
They want to crucify the scaliwigs as much as the rest of us do.
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I'm skeptical ... BUT ..... Posted by: Windstalker on Jul 9, 2005 10:10 PM
I work a lot of night shifts at a necessary but uneventful job. That leaves the mind unoccupied a lot.
One thing we do to maintain alertness is listen to Coast To Coast AM (Art Bell).
Usually with tongue planted firmly in cheek and chuckling.
BUT
One caller I've been amused by for years is John Titor who claimed to be from our future, 2038.
He has made many ludicrous claims of "his" history.
What is Very Frightening is that for the last three years the news is starting to sound play by play like Mr. Titors rantings.
Read for yourself and see if the hair on the nape of your neck doesn't start to stand on end. http://www.johntitor.com/
When you get there pay special attention to the section in the left panel labeled "Civil War"
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RE: Waiting to Hear Posted by: Samantha Vimes on Jul 9, 2005 10:22 PM
I alos read about a pair of editors of a small town newpaper finding out they were on the list.
I think it has a lot less to do with safety and a lot more to do with supressing the dissent necessary for a healthy democracy.
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RE: A Fascist Farce Posted by: crazedwolf95 on Jul 10, 2005 12:05 AM
someone has stolen our country....i want...no politley demand...or maybe not so politely....that they give us back our country....since i am crazy and cannot work because i'm crazy, among other things, what do think my chances are of being on their list of 'undesirables'???
nahhh....nobody listens to or pays much heed to us crazies, but dubya does get a good bit of ink doesnt he?
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RE: John Graham's wake-up call Posted by: Samantha Vimes on Jul 10, 2005 12:57 AM
I remember Al Gore had trouble with airline security pulling him aside for extra scrutiny, making calls about him and so on because he was on the list.
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Me Too!!! Posted by: MausMasher on Jul 10, 2005 2:03 AM
Well I have not been flying in the last few years, but I was taking a trip over to Canada, at the border I was told I was inadmissable. In admissable without a visa, I thought that strange and asked and in no uncertain terms, was told nada, upon return to US, I was given rather rude treament too and yet no explanation. I have written to a few Senators and Congressmen and have yet to get a real answer. I do know however that I have a very distant cousin that has a felony rap sheet longer than the paper trail of Bushler's lies and may very well be the problem. But I think also those of us who tend to have discourse here and at other sites are being monitored and listed for our beliefs and open frankness. As I have said before, after making some rather unkind remarks about our esteemed administrantion, any and everything I did on the web was routed thru 3 government leased/owned servers, for what, to monitor activities to see if I am an actual threat, I guess. But still no replys to any inquirey I have made to our government or Canadian has ever managed to find it's way to my email box in the last 2 years, to tell me exactly what or any of my offences might happen to be. So, yes we are and have been losing our rights ever since 9/11. Just let me migrate to Canada and I will shut up(yeah, right...when Ali Bu$h and his 40+ Thieves depart for the Hague, I will).
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RE: Me Too!!! Posted by: Johanna Moren on Jul 10, 2005 3:52 AM
In 1974 a Priest friend of mine in Australia said to me,"when the wall comes down the fascist that are waiting in the wings will take over, because the Right Wing will be in complete power".
I didn't take much notice of this at the time, but now it makes sense. Everything we the people fought for and gained in every western country is being dismantled, even here in Sweden.
We must unite. The reason why the hate campaign on France is so strong, is that the people of France are not taking it lying down.
I am 76 yrs old, and I have never seen anything like this before.
Mr. Graham, you have all the qualifications for the list. Peace and harmony.
They want war.
Johanna Moren.
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Every American Should Read this Article Posted by: jeri on Jul 10, 2005 10:42 AM
Just reading Mr. Graham's tribulations gave me an elevated heartbeat of indignation and worry. What are we, as a nation, becoming? If Mr. Graham would give his consent, I think everyone who has posted on this should make printed copies of this article and give them to everyone we know and ask them to do the same; forward this link to anyone and everyone.
If the Rove/Plame also strikes this same fear/nerve for us, then I think we have clear indications to what extent this Administration is willing to do to subvert our liberties AND our safety. AND most dern fool Americans are clueless.
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The Power to Abuse Posted by: tittiger on Jul 10, 2005 1:33 PM
"My name is on a list of real and suspected enemies of the state and I can't find out what I'm accused of or why, let alone defend myself." …
I can hazard a guess.... It's because John Graham believes in freedom, he believes in the Constitution. He and others like him are a very real threat to the despots, thugs, scum (i.e. our masters, owners....) that enslave and abuse us under color of law. Any one who somehow was not brainwashed in the government schools can see it.
It's really not that difficult: This is NOT about King George; it’s NOT about the abuse of power, it IS ABOUT the power to abuse. No one should have it!
The question remains what are we to do about it?
Joe
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RE: a tad more angry Posted by: tittiger on Jul 10, 2005 5:06 PM
ALWAYS? Did we get the British to leave our shores in 1776 or 1812 by saying please? Should we ask Ossama to please turn himself in?
Get a grip! There is a continuim between bending over and grabbing your ankles (like most of the sheeple) and political assiinations and all out warefare.
Abby Hoffmans concept of monkey warefare being somewhere in the middle there. And certainly more effective than ankle grabbing!
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A la Rothbard Posted by: tittiger on Jul 10, 2005 5:30 PM
For a minute I heard Murray Rothbard wispering in my ear. "Its the free market stupid" he said.
Why didn't every family that was victimized on 9/11 sue the airlines for $100 million each? The neocons spewed out some dogma about bankrupting the airlines. Great! Thats the idea you morons! In our American Free market system (when it is allowed to function) someone would have bought these airlines that would be a bit more serious about security. When there are consequenses to your actions it's amazing at how corperations would act. Who knows maybe they would subcontract their airlines security out to Mosad that does security for Al-Air. Perhaps ther government would get the hell out of the way and let the airline and the customer come to an agreement as to whether they can be armed on their flights. I would bet dollars to donuts that any airline that allowed cutomers to carry a fire arm could charge a premium for the service.
We don't need no stinkin' no fly list! All you need to do is put Bubba with a 357 in the seat behind anyone that may be a real threat. Either that or face the piper in a law suit for damages from the person that was not allowed on board.
The sad fact is the government does not want to make anyone really safe. They want to exert power, steal more money and freedoms from us. As soon as their lips start moving they are lying and usually trying to do the opposite of what they say they are up to.
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RE: Have you heard of "Suspicious Activity Report" Posted by: tittiger on Jul 10, 2005 8:24 PM
Let me see if I have this right:
While we have open borders and the government calls militia members trying to do something about it viglates. And the government still in effect won't let pilots or passengers carry weapons to protect themselves.
BUT at the same time they are snooping in 200 million American citizens finantial affairs and more than likely sharing it all with the IRS.
And I'm sure that terrorists are really stupid people that can't do something as simple as avoiding these ridiculous laws.
Sure makes me feel warm and fuzzy and especailly safe. Just kidding!:-) I say Impeach/recall/fire all the bastards!
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So what's next? (the no-fly list Trilogy) Posted by: tittiger on Jul 10, 2005 9:00 PM
I ask you to sit down with any first grader and present him or her with the following scenario: You have public event (i.e. an airline flight) and you have 100 participants. Are you with me so far?
Good!
You are also clairvoyant and know the name of the person that is going to try to do harm to the other people during this flight. BUT-- before anyone boards the flight they are all thoroughly searched, and no one has as much as a finger nail clipper on their person.
Any questions yet? I know this is a lot to absorb all at once. I can go back and reiterate if anyone wants me to. No? Alright then….
Do you think that the first grader can figure out the solution is; to let this person on the plane.
(This is a rhetorical question.)
Then why do Congress and the President have trouble with this concept?
Using the same logic that our masters/owners use we should have screeners and no-bus lists at the Greyhound station. A no-stadium list and screeners at football games and concerts. The no-mall list and inspectors at all of the nation’s malls. Let us not forget the no-McDonalds list. We must protect the children.
Then they will institute a 20% national list-tax to pay for all this. Hire 500,000 federal employees to man it. And guess what? The next terror attack will be a 100 pound plastic explosive in the road along the bus route.
And you can be damn sure that the next day our brilliant owners in Washington would rally for a no-road and no-sidewalk list. Raise the list-tax to 30% and swear up and down that THIS measure is going to stop the terrorism. Don’t question them that would be unpatriotic. Such as: Why didn’t at least one show these guys that a 357 trumps a whole slew of box cutters. Not to mention why they are ignoring the root causes.
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John Graham Posted by: Giraffe on Jul 10, 2005 10:31 PM
Comments from the author:
Thanks for all the comments. They led me to write a different ending for his piece, one more helpful to all those people who want to do something about this loss of our civil liberties.
Here it is:
What to do? To help keep us safe, there needs to be a list of the bad guys, coordinated among the security agencies with a need-to-know. But the actions that could get your name on that list must be made public, and they can’t include constitutionally protected dissent from government policies. The Feds can’t be allowed to throw the names of innocent people on the list without first doing simple checks for mistaken identity. And no one’s name should be added to the list, or kept on it, without a formal, open explanation of charges and opportunity to challenge and disprove them. This assault on civil liberties must not stand--not for me, not for anybody.
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Ever heard of the 'quick kick' formation? Posted by: Sojourner on Jul 10, 2005 11:51 PM
My high school football coach used it. We never got past the first elimination round. But I'd like to see us punt in Iraq right now.
Sorry if I was too overbearing, but my 60s hippie political nose lights up whenever I read provocations. I'm glad I was wrong.
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RE: Barnacle Bill Posted by: Lindie on Jul 11, 2005 6:46 AM
Ya know, Bill - that's not such a bad idea (wink-wink), and I'm sure that's where the bushites would LOVE for it to go. I seem to recall an Alternet article written early this spring about a 60-something gentleman in California, who was ratted out to Homeland Security by his fellow Health Club members, for having the temerity to criticize GW in public.
Then the gentleman was then subjected to endless investigations, denial of employment, credit refusal, a monitored library checkout and bookstore purchase list, and constant surveillance as a threat to national security.
How cool it would be to get the watchers on the watch list!
By the way, I have three sibs with the armed forces, as was my father, and many other family members. Their rights have always been abridged, compared to the ones I used to have pre-9/11, by virtue of their being with the Armed Forces. AND, it has always been routine for the feds (FBI) to keep them and their family members (immediate and extended) under surveillance.
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RE: That's just the beginning Posted by: Lindie on Jul 11, 2005 6:56 AM
Don't you find it odd that, when military enlistment is at an all-time low, and the military has resorted to rifling public school records, BY LAW (courtesy of the Partiot Act), to get access to our children's strengths and weaknesses, interests and favored activities (the better to persuade them that military enlistment is COOL), that rummy is closing BASES because 'we don't need them' ???
(the better to pitch the kids on the dubious benefits of joining the military to see exotic places like Iraq and do exciting things like get blown to sh_t in the US Military-Industrial Complex's real-time training camp for Al Qaeda, who have been flocking to Iraq in DROVES since we invaded ... )
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RE: Please keep us updated on this situation, Mr. Graham Posted by: ikoniclast on Jul 11, 2005 8:00 AM
I second the request to keep us updated. Moreover, I think a challenge to the TSA Watchlist policies you described may be ripe.
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hillcntrysweetie Posted by: texas1 on Jul 18, 2005 10:20 PM
My boyfriend is in Canada right now, unable to fly his cargo plane back into the United States. Although he works as a pilot for a Worldwide Cargo shipping company, and flew the plane into Canada on Friday, his name was put on a terrorist watch list while he was in Canada and now his company is sending another pilot to fly it home. He was told that the company would send him home on a commercial flight tomorrow, if they could. I don't know if he will be able to get on that flight either. It is truly sad because he is a retired Air Force Pilot and private pilot, and has worked for this company for 15 years. He doesn't fit the "typical" terrorist discription, if there is one. He is just a good ole country boy from Texas. I am frightened by the fact that he will be on a list now. Does this mean we will never be able to fly without being hassled at the airport, more than normally? Thanks for letting me vent!
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The other John Graham Posted by: jgrayhome on Jul 20, 2005 9:55 PM
Mr. Graham: some possible insight from another John Graham. My wife looked on the net, and it appears that we share a name with a third John Graham who got into some trouble--a murder?--associated with the American Indian Movement. This gentleman, if memory serves, is 49 and is now in Canada. It would seem fairly plain that neither you nor I (a 56-year-old resident of Vancouver, WA) fit either of those criteria very closely, and yet we're both stopped for every flight. I share your view that this is mostly a necessary inconvenience--except for how little real security it provides, and the completely improper way this event was allowed to happen. Hang in there.
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DO NOT BE AFRAID Posted by: michaeldarwyne on Jul 30, 2005 2:07 PM
Mr. Graham's sincerity and obvious chagrin have inspired some fascinating ideas. Would the airlines help?
Who has the most to lose in the final analysis from no fly orders? Who suffers most if people decide the hassle is too much and take the bus instead or just stay at home? How many Senators and Congressmen are influenced by what Mr. Graham says? Some perhaps. On the other hand how many Senators and Congressmen refuse to listen to lobbyists for major airlines?
"Dear Sunshine Airlines
I appreciate the need for ensuring persons who are reasonably suspected of wanting to kill or injure your passengers should not be allowed to fly. No fly lists are one way of doing this.
On the other hand, when there is little if any transparency and accountability in the process of creating these lists, when perfectly innocent, reputable, upstanding citizens find themselves listed and are as a result humiliated and inconvenienced through no apparent fault of their own, clearly the exercise has ceased to be a proportionate response to a problem: it has become an unreasonable intereference with freedom of movement.
Your airline has a duty to follow Government orders. You also have the ability to influence the process for the better.
I would like to ask you to lobby the appropriate officials to make the No Fly process more transparent, accountable and open to speedy and objective review. Quite frankly, if a mistake can not be corrected quickly, the whole process must be regarded as fatally flawed and should be discontinued.
I do hope that with your help I shall be able to fly again confident that reasonable measures of security are balanced by a sensible respect for the right to enjoy freedoms which lie at the heart of our society.
Very truly yours."
Michael Darwyne 21 Chemin Des Gotettes Vesenaz Switzerland CH 1222 Tel: 41-7941-584-717 mdarwyne@hotmail.com
PS I put all my contact details because all this talk of government agents watching this discussion is a way of terrifying (? terrorisng) ourselves. There really is nothing to be afraid of. Even government folk may be on No Fly lists!
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