Replies to post #127600 on Tornado Alley (PROG)

[DesertDrifter]

a single guy who stashed over a billion dollars per year from an impoverished country didn't have a direct effect on them? It was like he was a huge tax on the economy.

Hell, Cheney never even did that well, and Hosni did it for 30 years.

Bureaucrats will adjust to the rules imposed on them, that is what they do. There have already been reports of police not taking customary bribes for routine transactions due to a change in their orders.

Jobs? Well, the Egyptian version of trickle-down wasn't working either, since like the U.S., the top 1% are a sponge and not a bubbling spring.

The average dick over there now is getting the feeling that they can take risks economically and not have entrepenreurship squashed by the government. They are not as religion-bound as you seem to think... that is how the groupthink of Facebook was able to have a direct effect... the internet has helped free their minds. Which is what china fears, too.

[fuagf]

Egypt's Mubarak resigns as leader .. 11 February 2011 .. Last updated at 23:12 GMT

John Simpson By John Simpson World Affairs Editor, BBC News, Cairo

We all live in illusion of sorts .. their joy is real ..

The sun sets on protesters as they demonstrate in Tahrir Square in Cairo February 11, 2011.


A Egyptians are celebrating the fall of President Mubarak after
18 days of protests

In its way the overthrow of President Hosni Mubarak is as significant as the collapse of the Soviet bloc in Eastern Europe back in 1989.

That showed that a system which seemed to be fixed and stable and likely to endure for decades
was in fact brittle and fragile. Egypt's military dictatorship has been shown to be similarly feeble.

It took just 18 days to overthrow a proud, elderly man who had pitted himself stubbornly against the will of millions of Egyptians.

Egypt's army found itself right in the middle, unwilling until the very end to force President Mubarak
to go, yet deeply opposed to clearing the demonstrators out of Tahrir Square by sheer force.

'Military cracks'

So why has Mr Mubarak gone now after insisting that he would stay until the presidential elections in six or seven months time?

Two main reasons. The Americans - who had been embarrassed, helpless, onlookers - finally
summoned up all their power and influence to force the Egyptian military to get rid of Mr Mubarak.

But there was something else. The military leaders realised that cracks were starting to appear in the army's structure. Many
junior officers, ordinary soldiers, sided with the demonstrators. The generals backed the president who was one of their own.

Egyptian Army soldiers celebrate with children on their armoured personnel carrier in Tahrir Square, Cairo, 11 February 2011


Many soldiers sided with the demonstrators

There is a historical echo to this. In the 1952 revolution against the monarchy, some senior officers
supported the king, while younger ones like Colonel Gamal Abdul Nasser backed the coup.

Nasser became president after sweeping his boss, General Naguib, aside. Since
Nasser, there has only been two presidents in Egypt, Anwar Sadat and Hosni Mubarak.

For sixty years this country has been a military dictatorship backed by a nasty secret police
force. Finally, no doubt reluctantly, the army leaders have brought Nasser's system to an end.

It would never have happened though had it not been for the tremendous fortitude of
the tens of thousands of people who took control of Tahrir Square and refused to leave.

On Friday 28 January, the police attacked them with bricks, iron bars, and live ammunition.

They would not be budged.

When gangs of tough, determined Mubarak supporters were bussed in by the police and army to
wrest control of the square from them, the demonstrators fought back with even greater ferocity.

The gangs slowly retreated and were eventually driven out of the side roads around the square - after that they disappeared altogether.

Right from the start the soldiers who were sent in to discourage the demonstrators from taking
over the square showed themselves to be clearly sympathetic. That, in the end, proved decisive.

'Could happen anywhere'

The extraordinary scenes in Cairo tonight - with the streets, avenues, and bridges jammed with hooting
cars and excited flag-waving people - are a sign of the relief and pride which the crowds now feel.


The US - one of Egypt's biggest allies - pressured the army to get rid of Mr Mubarak

This was a victory for them in a country where people have habitually been obliged to do what their political masters told them.

Now they have the prospect of voting for their own leader in the coming presidential election.

In Egypt's 5,000 years as a unitary state, these people have never been able to choose their government before.

Will the army let it happen? It is hard to think now that they could prevent it. The people who have taken control of
their cities and their country once know how to do it again. It would be foolhardy for the army to try to stop them.

What has happened here in Egypt can happen anywhere. In Libya, in Iran, in Algeria,
in Syria. It does not take leaders and it does not take a well-organised conspiracy.

It simply takes courage of the kind the demonstrators have shown in Egypt.

The leaders of dictatorships in the Middle East and way beyond should not sleep easy after this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12437827

[fuagf]

Bah Humbug .. tell us something original .. hello



sure feels like YOU

[Alex G]

jeesh, at least give them a day or two before you crap all over their parade

[BOREALIS]

[F6]

benzdealeror2 -- that post says far more about you and your yet again obvious inability and/or refusal to see things as they are than it does about any 'others' and their mindsets -- especially the oh-so-richly ironic "They're suppressed by their own dogmas and mysticism." bit

of course there's much more left to do beyond what has been accomplished to this point -- but this is, has been, the both remarkable and absolutely necessary beginning -- and anybody who truly does value human freedom and dignity can and does see that

[F6]

Why the Muslim World Can’t Hear Obama


Olaf Hajek

By ALAA AL ASWANY
Published: February 7, 2009

Cairo

PRESIDENT OBAMA is clearly trying to reach out to the Muslim world. I watched his Inaugural Address on television, and was most struck by the line: “We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus, and nonbelievers.” He gave his first televised interview from the White House to Al Arabiya, an Arabic-language television channel.

But have these efforts reached the streets of Cairo?

One would have expected them to. Mr. Obama had substantial support among Egyptians — more than any other American presidential candidate that I can remember. I traveled to America several days before the election. The Egyptians I met in the United States told me — without exception — that they backed Mr. Obama. Many Egyptians I know went to his Web site and signed up as campaign supporters.

In Cairo, which is seven hours ahead of Washington, some people I know stayed up practically all night waiting for the election results. When Mr. Obama won, newspapers here described Nubians — southerners whose dark skin stands out in Cairo — dancing in victory.

Our admiration for Mr. Obama is grounded in what he represents: fairness. He is the product of a just, democratic system that respects equal opportunity for education and work. This system allowed a black man, after centuries of racial discrimination, to become president.

This fairness is precisely what we are missing in Egypt.

That is why the image of President-elect Obama meeting with his predecessors in the White House was so touching. Here in Egypt, we don’t have previous or future presidents, only the present head of state who seized power through sham elections and keeps it by force, and who will probably remain in power until the end of his days. Accordingly, Egypt lacks a fair system that bases advancement on qualifications. Young people often get good jobs because they have connections. Ministers are not elected, but appointed by the president. Not surprisingly, this inequitable system often leads young people to frustration or religious extremism. Others flee the country at any cost, hoping to find justice elsewhere.

We saw Mr. Obama as a symbol of this justice. We welcomed him with almost total enthusiasm until he underwent his first real test: Gaza. Even before he officially took office, we expected him to take a stand against Israel’s war on Gaza. We still hope that he will condemn, if only with simple words, this massacre that killed more than 1,300 Palestinians, many of them civilians. (I don’t know what you call it in other languages, but in Egypt we call this a massacre.) We expected him to address the reports that the Israeli military illegally used white phosphorus against the people of Gaza. We also wanted Mr. Obama, who studied law and political science at the greatest American universities, to recognize what we see as a simple, essential truth: the right of people in an occupied territory to resist military occupation.

But Mr. Obama has been silent. So his brilliantly written Inaugural Speech did not leave a big impression on Egyptians. We had already begun to tune out. We were beginning to recognize how far the distance is between the great American values that Mr. Obama embodies, and what can actually be accomplished in a country where support for Israel seems to transcend human rights and international law.

Mr. Obama’s interview with Al Arabiya on Jan. 27 was an event that was widely portrayed in the Western news media as an olive branch to the Muslim world. But while most of my Egyptian friends knew about the interview, by then they were so frustrated by Mr. Obama’s silence that they weren’t particularly interested in watching it. I didn’t see it myself, but I went back and read the transcript. Again, his elegant words did not challenge America’s support of Israel, right or wrong, or its alliances with Arab dictators in the interest of pragmatism.

I then enlisted the help of my two teenage daughters, May and Nada, to guide me through the world of Egyptian blogs, where young Egyptian men and women can express themselves with relative freedom. There I found a combination of glowing enthusiasm for Mr. Obama, a comparison between the democratic system in America and the tyranny in Egypt, the expectation of a fairer American policy in the Middle East, and then severe disappointment after Mr. Obama’s failure to intercede in Gaza. I thus concluded that no matter how many envoys, speeches or interviews Mr. Obama offers to us, he will not win the hearts and minds of Egyptians until he takes up the injustice in the Middle East. I imagine the same holds true for much of the greater Muslim world.

Have Egyptians irreversibly gone off Mr. Obama? No. Egyptians still think that this one-of-a-kind American president can do great things. Young Egyptians’ admiration for America is offset by frustration with American foreign policy. Perhaps the most eloquent expression of this came from one Egyptian blogger: “I love America. It’s the country of dreams ... but I wonder if I will ever be able someday to declare my love.”

Alaa Al Aswany is the author of “The Yacoubian Building” and “Chicago.” This article was translated by Geoff D. Porter from the Arabic.

Copyright 2009 The New York Times Company (emphasis added)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/opinion/08aswany.html


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President Obama's Statement on Egypt

February 10, 2011

Here is President Obama's statement following the Thursday televised address by Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak:

"The Egyptian people have been told that there was a transition of authority, but it is not yet clear that this transition is immediate, meaningful or sufficient. Too many Egyptians remain unconvinced that the government is serious about a genuine transition to democracy, and it is the responsibility of the government to speak clearly to the Egyptian people and the world. The Egyptian government must put forward a credible, concrete and unequivocal path toward genuine democracy, and they have not yet seized that opportunity.

"As we have said from the beginning of this unrest, the future of Egypt will be determined by the Egyptian people. But the United States has also been clear that we stand for a set of core principles. We believe that the universal rights of the Egyptian people must be respected, and their aspirations must be met. We believe that this transition must immediately demonstrate irreversible political change, and a negotiated path to democracy. To that end, we believe that the emergency law should be lifted.

"We believe that meaningful negotiations with the broad opposition and Egyptian civil society should address the key questions confronting Egypt's future: protecting the fundamental rights of all citizens; revising the Constitution and other laws to demonstrate irreversible change; and jointly developing a clear roadmap to elections that are free and fair.

"We therefore urge the Egyptian government to move swiftly to explain the changes that have been made, and to spell out in clear and unambiguous language the step by step process that will lead to democracy and the representative government that the Egyptian people seek.

"Going forward, it will be essential that the universal rights of the Egyptian people be respected. There must be restraint by all parties. Violence must be forsaken. It is imperative that the government not respond to the aspirations of their people with repression or brutality. The voices of the Egyptian people must be heard.

"The Egyptian people have made it clear that there is no going back to the way things were: Egypt has changed, and its future is in the hands of the people. Those who have exercised their right to peaceful assembly represent the greatness of the Egyptian people, and are broadly representative of Egyptian society.

"We have seen young and old, rich and poor, Muslim and Christian join together, and earn the respect of the world through their non-violent calls for change. In that effort, young people have been at the forefront, and a new generation has emerged. They have made it clear that Egypt must reflect their hopes, fulfill their highest aspirations, and tap their boundless potential. In these difficult times, I know that the Egyptian people will persevere, and they must know that they will continue to have a friend in the United States of America."

© 2011 AOL Inc.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/02/10/president-obamas-statement-on-egypt/ [with comments]


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Remarks by the President on Egypt

February 11, 2011
3:06 P.M. EST

THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon, everybody.

There are very few moments in our lives where we have the privilege to witness history taking place. This is one of those moments. This is one of those times. The people of Egypt have spoken, their voices have been heard, and Egypt will never be the same.

By stepping down, President Mubarak responded to the Egyptian people’s hunger for change. But this is not the end of Egypt’s transition. It’s a beginning. I’m sure there will be difficult days ahead, and many questions remain unanswered. But I am confident that the people of Egypt can find the answers, and do so peacefully, constructively, and in the spirit of unity that has defined these last few weeks. For Egyptians have made it clear that nothing less than genuine democracy will carry the day.

The military has served patriotically and responsibly as a caretaker to the state, and will now have to ensure a transition that is credible in the eyes of the Egyptian people. That means protecting the rights of Egypt’s citizens, lifting the emergency law, revising the constitution and other laws to make this change irreversible, and laying out a clear path to elections that are fair and free. Above all, this transition must bring all of Egypt’s voices to the table. For the spirit of peaceful protest and perseverance that the Egyptian people have shown can serve as a powerful wind at the back of this change.

The United States will continue to be a friend and partner to Egypt. We stand ready to provide whatever assistance is necessary -- and asked for -- to pursue a credible transition to a democracy. I’m also confident that the same ingenuity and entrepreneurial spirit that the young people of Egypt have shown in recent days can be harnessed to create new opportunity -- jobs and businesses that allow the extraordinary potential of this generation to take flight. And I know that a democratic Egypt can advance its role of responsible leadership not only in the region but around the world.

Egypt has played a pivotal role in human history for over 6,000 years. But over the last few weeks, the wheel of history turned at a blinding pace as the Egyptian people demanded their universal rights.

We saw mothers and fathers carrying their children on their shoulders to show them what true freedom might look like.

We saw a young Egyptian say, “For the first time in my life, I really count. My voice is heard. Even though I’m only one person, this is the way real democracy works.”

We saw protesters chant “Selmiyya, selmiyya” -- “We are peaceful” -- again and again.

We saw a military that would not fire bullets at the people they were sworn to protect.

And we saw doctors and nurses rushing into the streets to care for those who were wounded, volunteers checking protesters to ensure that they were unarmed.

We saw people of faith praying together and chanting – “Muslims, Christians, We are one.” And though we know that the strains between faiths still divide too many in this world and no single event will close that chasm immediately, these scenes remind us that we need not be defined by our differences. We can be defined by the common humanity that we share.

And above all, we saw a new generation emerge -- a generation that uses their own creativity and talent and technology to call for a government that represented their hopes and not their fears; a government that is responsive to their boundless aspirations. One Egyptian put it simply: Most people have discovered in the last few days…that they are worth something, and this cannot be taken away from them anymore, ever.

This is the power of human dignity, and it can never be denied. Egyptians have inspired us, and they’ve done so by putting the lie to the idea that justice is best gained through violence. For in Egypt, it was the moral force of nonviolence -- not terrorism, not mindless killing -- but nonviolence, moral force that bent the arc of history toward justice once more.

And while the sights and sounds that we heard were entirely Egyptian, we can’t help but hear the echoes of history -- echoes from Germans tearing down a wall, Indonesian students taking to the streets, Gandhi leading his people down the path of justice.

As Martin Luther King said in celebrating the birth of a new nation in Ghana while trying to perfect his own, “There is something in the soul that cries out for freedom.” Those were the cries that came from Tahrir Square, and the entire world has taken note.

Today belongs to the people of Egypt, and the American people are moved by these scenes in Cairo and across Egypt because of who we are as a people and the kind of world that we want our children to grow up in.

The word Tahrir means liberation. It is a word that speaks to that something in our souls that cries out for freedom. And forevermore it will remind us of the Egyptian people -- of what they did, of the things that they stood for, and how they changed their country, and in doing so changed the world.

Thank you.

END 3:13 P.M. EST

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/02/11/remarks-president-egypt [video at http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/2011/02/11/president-obama-historic-day-egypt ]


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also (items linked in):

http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=39512678 and preceding and following

http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=59647069 and preceding and following