Replies to post #6203 on The Political Battle Royal

[GEO928]

eagle....after all that....this is the best you can do.....

Let's see: The Articles of Confederation contained what is in The Bill of Rights, but it wasn't stripped.

I'm very disappointed with you....this is from your original post:

When one reads the debates, especially between James Madison and Patrick Henry, it is easily axiomatic that secret societies prevailed in stripping provisions of The Articles of Confederation to form a deliberate tyrannical government, by the their own very definition.

I told you most scholars and intellectuals believe the Articles of Confederation were too weak....

yet, you disagree with your intellectual chums and insist they were stripped by "secret societies"....

ok, here's a condensation of the articles followed by the same for the Bill of Rights....

I'm from Missouri....show me which freedoms were stripped to form a tyrannical government....

first: a synopsis of the Articles of Confederation

1. Establishes the name of the confederation with these words: "The Style of this confederacy shall be "The United States of America."

2. Asserts the equality of the separate states with the confederation government, i.e. "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated."

3. Does not call the United States of America a "nation" or "government," but instead says, "The said States hereby severally enter into a firm league of friendship with each other, for their common defense, the security of their liberties, and their mutual and general welfare, binding themselves to assist each other, against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them, or any of them, on account of religion, sovereignty, trade, or any other pretense whatever."

4. Establishes freedom of movement – anyone could pass freely between the states, excluding "paupers, vagabonds, and fugitives from justice." All people are entitled to the rights established by the state into which he travels. If a crime is committed in one state and the perpetrator flees to another state, he will be extradited to and tried in the state in which the crime was committed.

5. Allocates one vote in the Congress of the Confederation (the "United States in Congress Assembled") to each state, which was entitled to a delegation of between two and seven members. Members of Congress were appointed by state legislatures. Also, individuals could not serve more than three out of any six years.

6. Only the central government was allowed to conduct foreign relations and to declare war. No states could have navies or standing armies, or engage in war, without permission of Congress (although the existence of state militias is encouraged).

7. Whenever an army is raised for common defense, colonels and military ranks below colonel will be named by the state legislatures.

8. Expenditures by the United States of America will be paid by funds raised by state legislatures, and apportioned to the states based on the real property values of each.

9. Defines the powers of the United States of America: to declare war, to set weights and measures (including coins), and for Congress to serve as a final court for disputes between states.

10. Defines a Committee of the States to be a government when Congress is not in session.

11. Requires nine states to approve the admission of a new state into the confederacy. It pre-approved eastern Canada, if it had applied for membership.

12. Reaffirms that the Confederation accepts war debt incurred by Congress before the existence of the Articles.

13. Declares that the Articles are perpetual, and can only be altered by approval of Congress with ratification by all the state legislatures.

here's a summary of the Bill of Rights

• First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition

• Second Amendment – Militia (United States), Sovereign state, Right to keep and bear arms.

• Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.

• Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.

• Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.

• Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel

• Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury.

• Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.

• Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.

• Tenth Amendment – Powers of States and people.

[GEO928]

eagle.....a thought.....

as you accuse me of deflection, you might consider the most obvious answer to the "problem" is usually the correct one....

in this case, as you smugly advise me that your position is affirmed by the debates between Patrick Henry and James Madison, I will offer you this....

I have not read the debates....nor studied them in depth.....

But....

reading or studying them is unnecessary when one understands that Madison was in favor of strong federal government and Patrick Henry was opposed to tight central control....

and....

while it might be an overstatement to call them enemies....I am sure you will agree they were political opponents/adversaries....

and, therein lies much of your answer....

as an anarchist or, as you like to say: "anarchocapitalist".....with whom would we expect you to side or favor....regardless of what they said....

my answer is: the person who favors the weakest government....

in this case that's Patrick Henry.....

however, your relish for Henry's position does not validate your statement.....

and....

your air of self importance & condescension......

Too bad my post was beyond your grasp.

.....is not only unworthy of you but also pigeon holes you into the well deserved, stereotypic mold of today's intellectual, liberal know-it-all who must resort to sticks and stones when faced with the reality of: "uh, oh....maybe, I'm wrong".

have a good weekend.