Replies to post #1614 on Investing in Timber

[mattyo5]

When I met w/ Steve and Sherry, I saw some Raleo products, and Raleo appeared to be busy. So, they aren't doing nothing. Its not like they are sitting on their tails and waiting for the maximum return before they run away with our money. Raleo is there, and the trees are there. Based on what I saw, I was not impressed with the overall care of the trees, but the trees were being more or less looked after. Obviously they are way behind on the thinnings, they just haven't bothered to give us evidence that they have it under control and will catch up soon. Hence the uncomfortableness on this forum.

-Mattyo

[schaef]

I'm also interested in hearing about the visits. As much specifics as you are willing to share. How many people are working there? Did you see active working going on? Were they putting on a show for you or did you see random people working at various activities? Which/how many farms did you see? What farms look bad/good? What percentage of trees look as good as you expected, or are they all scrubby? Did you buy new plantings or special older trees, and do the special older trees look like they were selling the worst ones off?

Basically, the contract seems to boil down to this: they are responsible to thin the trees in the best way to make them grow as well as possible, but TATF is the only entity that has the right to judge whether the trees need to be thinned or not, so in other words, they watch over themselves to see if they are doing a good job. So we have no independent way to hold their feet to the fire. No USDA to inspect the trees and give them a seal of approval for what they are doing.

I don't think everyone thinks it's a scam where they will take the money and run (but if even '93 owners haven't gotten any money at all? I'm pretty uncomfortable about that - hadn't read back that far). More that they aren't doing what they said, trees might not be growing as expected, wood might not be as valuable as expected. Like they sold it a lot bigger than it is, they are managing it very poorly and what we end up with may not be a whole lot.

To all: You are welcome to contact me for verification if you like. Not sure if my cheerful innate optimism makes me sound like a shill.

[belmontx]

No one has reported visiting their office or factory. Several have reported visits to what is marked as their trees and have had varying reactions -- none particularly positve, several disappointed because of poor soil, stunted growth, overgrown brush or steep elevation, some of which I observed on my visit several years ago. No visitor has reported any visible activity by TATF on the farms in recent years.

According to their promotions they are under an obligation to trim and maintain the trees they sell to investors. Whether or not there is anything we can do about it is another matter (see fawtsc's last post). Without this board none of us would know what is going on and would be completely helpless; with the board we are gathering a sizable group of tree owners who eventually can band together for redress if it becomes necessary (see "treeowner" post #1062, May 25).

Finally, as for not receiving responses from TATF, welcome to the club. Their email eagerness is supreme when they are luring a prospect for purchases, it changes radically after the money is sent their way. Most on the board have reported failure in trying to get meaningful information from them either by email or telephone.

It can't be emphasized enough that the single most sobering finding we have gained from the three years of this board is that no credible poster on it has reported any financial return from his investment in TATF, no matter how old his trees nor how long he has owned them.