Replies to post #24024 on Bible (Bible)

[Ranb2khz]

I believe 'hell' to be man's total separation from God. I cannot imagine variations of this aspect, as that itself would be utter chaos and the grandest feeling of emptiness ever known.

[excel]

I agree with a lot of what John says but this one? Nope.
Can I understand his reasoning behind it? Yep.

But like Rick says............. yep I read ahead.

I believe seperation. A great divide that can't be crossed.
Hell will be HELL!

Torment is torment. You could eliminate the fire and actually have people sit around all day in front of a big screen showing Heaven and believe me I think that would be enough. In other words, when they find out the lust of money, flesh, greed, self, and the list goes on and on we all battle with they will be tormented just knowing they could be with Jesus!

And besides, there is no Baseball in Hell!

[tenac]

A Warning to the Indifferent
John MacArthur
http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/42-136

This is the transcript / message i was talking about when i ask the question in the post that im replying to here.

Couple thoughts from the transcript;

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Now listen to this. The more of God's truth you know, the more severe will be the eternal punishment. Those people in the Old Testament who lived under the law of Moses will receive a certain level of punishment for rejecting the work of the law in their hearts which was to lead them to repentance and then to cry out to God for grace and mercy and forgiveness. The people in the Old Testament who did not respond to the work of the law of Moses in their heart, repent of their sin and cry out to God to be forgiven, they will receive punishment. Those who did not know the law of God, did not respond to the law of God will be punished. But those who heard the gospel, those who have heard the message of Jesus Christ, the good news of salvation in Him will receive a greater punishment. The more revelation you have, the greater punishment you receive if you reject it. The severest eternal punishment belongs to those who heard the most and rejected it.

Let me show you this. Turn, for a moment, to the tenth chapter of Hebrews and this is a very important portion of Scripture in this discussion, Hebrews chapter 10 and verse 26. Scripture says, "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth," if you've heard the truth and you understand the truth, that is the truth of Christ, the truth of the gospel, but you go on sinning willfully, that is to say you go on in rejection, you willfully spurn that truth, reject that truth of salvation in Christ and Christ alone, if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the truth, "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins." There will be no salvation. If you reject Christ, there's no way to be saved...that's what the writer is saying. There is no other sacrifice, there is no other provision. All you have then, verse 27, if you reject Christ, "Is a certain terrifying expectation of judgment." To reject Christ leads you with nothing but to expect judgment, a terrifying expectation of judgment. This is described as the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries, the fiery furious judgment of hell where the worm dies not, the fire is not quenched, blackness and darkness forever, weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth in eternal torment.

So if you having heard the knowledge of truth reject that truth, there is no other way for you to be saved and all you have to look forward to is the terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of the fire of hell. Verse 28 then says, "Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses." In other words, if you've violated the Law of Moses there was severe and deadly consequences. It was a serious thing to violate the Law of Moses.

But notice verse 29, and here's the key. "How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled underfoot the Son of God and has regarded as unclean the blood of the Covenant?" We'll stop at that point.

If you think it's going to be bad in eternity for the people who rejected the Law of Moses, it's going to be worse for the people who've rejected Jesus Christ. There are degrees of punishment in eternity. There are degrees of suffering in hell. And the more you know about the gospel and reject it, the severer will be your punishment.

To make it very practical, if you're a non-believer, being in this church and hearing the gospel is high-risk behavior. You'd be better off to climb Everest in a snow storm or jump out of an airplane with a parachute with a huge hole in the middle of it. Or better yet, jump out of an airplane with an umbrella than to sit in this church and listen to the gospel. Because the implications of rejecting it are so severe forever. Don't just come here, sit, know more and more about the gospel and continue in your rejection and no expect to be eternally held accountable for that rejection. The severest eternal punishment belongs to those who rejected the most exposure to the gospel.

You say, "What are you telling all this to us?" Because this is exactly the point of the text. Let's go back to Luke 10. This is the point of this text. Let me pick up the text in verse 12, Luke 10:12. "I say to you, it would be more tolerable in that day for Sodom than for that city. Woe to you Chorazin, woe to you Bethsaida for if the miracles had been performed in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago sitting in sack cloth and ashes. But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will be brought down to Hades, or hell. The one who listens to you, listens to Me. The one who rejects you, rejects Me. And he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me."

The message here is very clear. There are comparative punishments in hell. The more exposure you have to the glory of Christ, the more potential judgment you will receive if you reject it.

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And so you have then, let's just give you three points this morning, number one, the principle of comparative judgment...the principle of comparative judgment. I've already illustrated it in the introduction, but notice it is specifically noted in verse 12 and verse 14. "I say to you, it will be more tolerable in that day for Sodom than for that city, verse 14, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in that judgment than for you." Here's the warning. "My friend, it will be more tolerable in the judgment for people who have never heard of Jesus Christ than it will be for you having just heard the gospel and rejected it. Better you never should have heard this." That's why I say, hanging around this church is high-risk behavior. It has implications for all eternity. This is the principle of comparative judgment. This is first-hand, folks. Just in case you might think this is hearsay, verse 12 says, "I say to you...I say to you, and you pass it on..." First-hand from the judge Himself. I'm telling you from the mouth of Jesus Himself it will be more tolerable for the people who have never heard of Jesus in hell than it will be for you. It's not going to be tolerable, but it will be more tolerable than for you. This is a comparative, from anektos which means bearable, or endurable, talking about lesser punishment. Sodom, Sidon, Tyre will experience lesser punishment than Chorazin, Bethsaida, Capernaum, or any other town that saw and heard and rejected Jesus.

Now He says, "In that day" in the middle of verse 12. In what day? It's going to be more tolerable in what day? In that day. What's that day? Down to verse 14, "It will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the judgment." So He's talking about judgment day, isn't He? The day of judgment. Now the day of judgment could certainly cover a broad range. It could mean the day that those people died and entered into their eternal punishment. But I think it's more specific than that. In the tenth chapter of Matthew, Jesus in the comparative passage to this, is recorded to have said, "In the day of judgment," and He puts it together. And also in the eleventh chapter of Matthew, verse 24, "In the day of judgment." It's in the day of judgment. What is the day of judgment? It's really talking about, I think, the Great White Throne, the final adjudication, the last tribunal. All the people who die without believing the truth, whether under the law of Moses or after the coming of Christ, all the people all over the face of the earth go out of the presence of God forever into a place of punishment and torment. That's illustrated, you remember, by Jesus' parable of Lazarus and the rich man and the rich man wants water to cool the tip of his tongue because he's in torment. They're all in torment but they're waiting for their final sentencing on the day of judgment in which they will be cast forever into the final hell which is described as a Lake of Fire. And there at that particular time their punishment will be commensurate with their exposure to the truth of Christ. Revelation 20:11, "And I saw a Great White Throne, Him who sat on it from whose presence earth and heaven fled away and no place was found for them," this is at the end when the whole of the universe as we know it is uncreated and disappears and all the dead, the great and the small, that is the important and the unimportant, stand before the throne, they're all brought to the throne. They receive at that time resurrection bodies suited for their eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire. The books are opened, another book is opened which is the Book of Life, the dead are judged from the things written in the Book of Life. According to their deeds they come up from the sea, they come up from death and Hades and they are judged, every one of them, according to their deeds. All the ungodly of all the ages will be at that tribunal for that final sentencing and they will be throne into the Lake of Fire. There they will be punished forever. But it will be in that day a lesser punishment for Sodom and Sidon and Tyre and their illustrations of those people who lived before Christ than it will be for anybody who's been exposed to Jesus Christ, whether by personal experience because they were there when He lived, or by the experience of hearing the record of Jesus Christ proclaimed through the Scripture. This is the principle of comparative judgment.

To be exposed to the gospel, to be exposed to Christ either personally, or by the record of Scripture is to raise your level of guilt, culpability and therefore punishment if you reject. So the principle of comparative judgment and then the examples of comparative judgment, that's the second point I want you to note, the examples. There are three of them...three of them.