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woofer

10/29/07 12:39 AM

#686 RE: maxgold #685

max, you spent a lot of time and effort on your post and I appreciate the fact that you did, but I honestly don't have the time to respond to it right now. I'll try to do it bit by bit over the next few days if that's OK with you. In the meantime, could you please watch this video which will save me a little time.
If you don't want to watch the entire movie (although I would suggest that you do), move the slider to 37:18 and start from there:
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
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woofer

10/29/07 5:54 PM

#707 RE: maxgold #685

max, like I said before, I'm bogged down with a lot of things going on, especially at home, so I don't have much free time. In fact I have no free time, but since I promised to address your post, I'm keeping my promise by posting one response per day per segment of our post.

Installment One:
You said, "Oh, so now you are saying the Americans that killed 3,000 other Americans on 9/11 also are making Osama bin Laded tapes to rally radical Muslims in a Jihad against the West."

My response: Yes, at least some of the tapes were 'manufactured' but no, it wasn't for the reason you stated.

EDIT: I'm adding this old post of mine first since it has to do without something you mentioned in another post- Make sure to read the reply to this post too:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=21476499

The Fake 2001 bin Laden
Video Tape
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html
A videotape purportedly showing Osama bin Laden confessing to the 9/11 attacks was made public on December 13, 2001:
The tape bore a label indicating it was made on November 9. Administration officials wouldn't reveal exactly how or when they got it, except to say it was found in a house in Jalalabad after anti-Taliban forces moved in. [Online NewsHour]

The videotape was supposedly physically located.
The size of a standard VHS videotape is 7.5 inches wide by 4.2 inches deep by 1 inch high - if you look in a video cabinet you'll see they're not very big. The satellite photograph on the right shows Jalalabad - it is very big and it contains a lot of buildings (not all single storey).

Don't you find it somewhat fortuitous that a very small video tape of Osama confessing to the 9/11 attacks was found in this very big city? Were squads of video watchers sent in to view every tape found just in case one showed Osama confessing?

"For those who see this tape, they'll realise that not only is he guilty of incredible murder, he has no conscience and no soul, that he represents the worst of civilisation," said President George W Bush. US Senator Ron Wyden, who has also seen the tape, says he hopes it will remove suspicions in countries such as Pakistan that the 11 September attacks were an Israeli plot aimed at drawing the US into a war with Islamic countries. [BBC News]

The video was very effective in diverting media attention away from the deportation of five Israelis who danced as the twin towers burned - "Osama" certainly picks his moments to appear.

Details of the videotape - includes full video and transcript.

A German TV show found that the White House's translation of the video was inaccurate and "manipulative". Bin Laden even praised two live 'hijackers' - Wail M. Alshehri and Salem Alhazmi. Why didn't he know the names of hijackers he personally chose?

The quality of the video was very poor and the authenticity of the tape was questioned. This annoyed President Bush:

"It is preposterous for anybody to think that this tape is doctored," he said during a brief photo opportunity with the prime minister of Thailand. "That's just a feeble excuse to provide weak support for an incredibly evil man." [CNN]

Okay, let's take a closer look at bin Laden and his views.

The following is an extract from bin Laden's September 28, 2001 denial of involvement in the 9/11 attacks...
"This system is totally in control of the American-Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States. It is clear that the American people are themselves the slaves of the Jews and are forced to live according to the principles and laws laid by them. So, the punishment should reach Israel. In fact, it is Israel, which is giving a blood bath to innocent Muslims and the U.S. is not uttering a single word." [Public Action]

...and his views were the same in 1998:
"We say to the Americans as people and to American mothers, if they cherish their lives and if they cherish their sons, they must elect an American patriotic government that caters to their interests, not the interests of the Jews." [American Free Press]

The above demonstrates that bin Laden publicly aired very strong views about Israel and Jews when he was given the chance.

Below are still images from bin Laden videos released in 2001. The images are in chronological order. A point to note about bin Laden is he was suffering renal failure...
Renal dialysis -- talking about hemodialysis -- is something that really is reserved for patients in end-stage renal failure. That means their kidneys have just completely shut down. The most common cause of something like that would be something like diabetes and hypertension. Once that's happened, if you're separated from your dialysis machine -- and incidentally, dialysis machines require electricity, they're going to require clean water, they're going to require a sterile setting -- infection is a huge risk with that. If you don't have all those things and a functioning dialysis machine, it's unlikely that you'd survive beyond several days or a week at the most. [CNN]

...therefore his health in the videos is very relevant.

The "bin Laden" in video #3 has the wrong beard color, and his views and health are inconsistent with those of the real bin Laden. Also, if video #3 was a true bin Laden confession then why didn't he attribute 9/11 to avenging the suffering of Muslims, especially since America was attacking the country in which he was living?

The poor image quality of video #3 stands out when compared to the genuine bin Laden videos. There is also excessive noise on the video's audio track, making it impossible to really hear what is being said. Given that the tape was recorded in an area supposedly devoid of audio urban signature there should have been little ambient noise, yet the speech is masked with a great deal of noise.

There is clearly good reason to doubt the November 9 tape.

This was not the first video claiming to show Osama confessing to the 9/11 attacks...
[Video] footage, to which the Telegraph obtained access in the Middle East yesterday, was not made for public release via the al-Jazeera television network used by bin Laden for propaganda purposes in the past. ... The video will form the centrepiece of Britain and America's new evidence against bin Laden, to be released this Wednesday. [Telegraph 11/11/01]

...and this never-to-be-seen video also appeared right on cue:
Emergency powers to imprison suspected international terrorists indefinitely using special closed courts will be announced this week. The measure, which will require exemption from human rights legislation, will be used to round up about 20 suspects hiding in Britain beyond the reach of existing laws. [Telegraph 11/11/2001]

Even hard line secular Pakistanis were unconvinced by the released bin Laden video tape. Iqbal Haider, a former senator from the party of ousted prime minister Benazir Bhutto, said he found it hard to believe that bin Laden would allow himself to be filmed confessing to the crime. "It is hard to believe that a man who masterminds the September attacks with such secrecy and finesse could be that stupid and imprudent," he said. "I hate Osama and the Taliban because they inflicted incalculable damage on Muslims ... but it is hard to digest that he can be such a fool."
When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden's Most Wanted web page, [Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI] said, "The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden's Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11." [Muckraker Report]

The above demonstrates the bin Laden "confession video" was a propaganda exercise created to justify the pursuit of a preplanned war.