Replies to post #453982 on Tornado Alley (PROG)

[Zorax]

Sorry, I don't buy that. Particularly since much of what I've read isn't saying Israel is buying from the US, but selling to other countries. Using our subsidies to help fund the process.

If that is even remotely true, then we're just contributing to a ponzi scheme of sorts. But I think many many countries that the US and 'democratic' countries assist are also doing the same thing and it's not just Israel. It's just a constant churning of money and weapon products with everyone skimming a chunk off as it passes through their gates.

Not like it's anything new. That's all I got, I have nothing more to add to this subject. I'm not versed or learned enough beyond that to do so.
Sadly I don't see any solutions there when religion is part of the governing bodies.

[fuagf]

brooklyn13, I think more than the arms industry and pension funds the topic was the special relationship between Israel and the U.S.A. The only real connection between what you introduced and Israel is, why should Israel be the number one customer for arms from the U.S.A. If the answer to that is to support U.S. citizens through their pension funds and the wealthy in the arms industry then i guess (without further research) you may have a point. That aside however and back to Israel did you catch this one:

The U.S.-Israel Relationship No Longer Makes Sense

[...]

It’s not just the discrimination of Palestinian citizens of Israel (also sometimes referred to as Israeli Arabs) that raises questions about the quality of Israeli democracy. In recent years, Israeli lawmakers have passed legislation that cracks down on non-governmental organizations that receive foreign funding .. https://www.france24.com/en/20160712-israel-controversial-ngo-law-leftist-rights-groups , bullied .. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-bans-groups-btselem-say-apartheid-state-from-lecturing-in-schools/ .. human rights groups, and passed a “nation-state law .. https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-nation-state-law-bill-explained-apartheid-netanyahu-democracy ” that essentially formalizes the first- and second-class citizenship of Jews and Arabs, respectively, in Israeli society. These issues have largely been ignored in the United States. At best, they are buried in State Department reports that few ever read. Israel has always been democratic enough for U.S. presidents and members of Congress.

[Insert: Now due to your penchant for attacking my not including comparatives with Australia or other countries in every post about Israel (that thought of yours will remain
as silly as it is long after we all have gone) i will slip in here, though Australia has treated our aborigines abysmally we have nothing even close to Israel's "nation-state" law.]

The current Israeli government is making Israel’s democratic deficits hard to ignore, however. These issues have been covered extensively so there is no need to delve into details here. In brief, the Israeli government seeks to weaken checks and balances in Israel’s political system, redefine Israeli identity along religious lines that a majority of Israelis do not share, undermine the security of LGBTQ citizens, and annex parts of the West Bank. Avowedly fascist and racist government ministers who make no apologies for their worldviews are driving this agenda. Their only interests are the land and the Lord .. https://www.sas.upenn.edu/penncip/lustick/ .

It is not appropriate for the United States to tell Israelis how to live or organize their society, but let’s no longer pretend that the two countries share democratic values. Perhaps the ongoing mass protests against the government will prove that Israel’s democratic practices are stronger than its demagogues. That would be a good thing for Israelis and strengthen the argument about values, but Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his partners do not seem to be backing down. Former U.S. President Ronald Reagan once said, “There is no nation like us, except Israel.” It was a nice sentiment, but it is not true, especially now.

In recent years, Israel has become more secure and less democratic. If Israel and its supporters want the country to continue receiving U.S. largesse, they will need to come up with a new narrative.
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How do you feel about that opinion of Steven A. Cook's...