drbob board has several LII active traders: http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk/subject.gsp?subjectid=36624 ========================================================== To:Drbob512 who started this subject From: chichi2 Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 4:56 AM Respond to of 80690
to all, need LII replies from Traders for this poster, can you help him. I will transfer your responses to him if you post them here. TIA chichi2. or if you have another board i might ask for answers for him, please let me know, TIA
Does anyone have a link for information that explains how to use Level II information. How about a book maybe ? I just want to do some ground work before the expense of Level II.
Does anyone have a favorite Level II service provider? TIA
I'm just curious, how many traders on this board use two computers? One to monitor Level II and the other to monitor a real time stock chart ie Scottrader. I feel that I'm missing opportunities to make money on short term trades and that the above mentioned arrangement would help. =======================================================
xe2dy, RE Level II platform, this site includes a simulator you can use for free, if you enter your name. i will give you the simulator Link and i will give you Link to a help site from the platform itself, that you can search or just click on any tab and see what its all about. If you search on "Level II" you will see they have changed the name.
If you trade 48 times or more per year at Schwab, you may be eligible to receive StreetSmart Pro® free of charge. Call 1-888-639-7334 to find out about qualifying. (most Platforms are free, if you do a certain level of trading so this is comparable to others)
I THINK THE BEST MOVE IS TO SIGN UP AND USE THE SIMULATOR. I did not wish to do it but it is painless and maybe just what you want to see.
(Note, when you are a user of any of these platforms, you usually can set them up any way you want to. I used to trade with one Trade Open, set up a certain custom way i like, then i changed it long ago and use Two Trading setups in one systems with multiple charts for each Trading setup. for a while i even had 3 going. But i now only use, i say only use two. As i also watch Dialogue rooms, usually two up at a time with access to others, and 4 email systems operating off of different sound noises. And of course i have immediate access via favorites to the websites iHubs "chichi2".) So the clutter of it all, i cut back on the number of LII Trading Windows to 2, where i can see real time trading, with MMs identified with queues. On the platform i have lots of choices if you run the simulator i think you will see the common ones on most platforms. Watch Lists, NewHighs/Lows, News, Screener facilities on the platform, all kinds of charts and ways of customizing them with indicator, and on and on....
This StreetSmartPro is the same platform used at the subsidiary Cybertrader too which tends to have more semi pro and pro traders, than the main company, they get less support, and functions so they can trade Futures too. http://www.cybertrader.com/
ANYTHING BELOW THIS SENTENCE IS FROM THE HELP FUNCTION INSIDE THE SYSTEM, I AM COPYING all THESE URLS from info found at this first url by clicking around. To the overall help, place to search to your delight. http://help.sspro.schwab.com/2.2/
XE2DY, RE Level ll, here are Several People who took time and answered your Quest. they are all on the DrBob board. many i have communicated with for a few years. you can read them directly on DrBob's board or read them here. I will thank them for you, however if you want me to post a reply from you just let me know via email or here on this board.
These people are active traders, and fine traders, and have strong opinions.
DrBob's board is on Silicon Investors, this is the direct link, i do not think you can post unless you are a member. http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk/subject.gsp?subjectid=36624 ============================================================ Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 4:56 AM View Replies (3) / Respond to of 80699
to all, need LII replies from Traders for this poster, can you help him. I will transfer your responses to him if you post them here. TIA chichi2. or if you have another board i might ask for answers for him, please let me know, TIA
Does anyone have a link for information that explains how to use Level II information. How about a book maybe ? I just want to do some ground work before the expense of Level II.
Does anyone have a favorite Level II service provider? TIA
I'm just curious, how many traders on this board use two computers? One to monitor Level II and the other to monitor a real time stock chart ie Scottrader. I feel that I'm missing opportunities to make money on short term trades and that the above mentioned arrangement would help. ======================================================= To: chichi2 who wrote (80690) From: shoreco Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 8:10 AM
chichi2, >> Does anyone have a link for information that explains how to use Level II information. How about a book maybe ? I just want to do some ground work before the expense of Level II. <<
Answer, While I personally believe you can get faked out by watching Level II, here's a link I came across many years ago when I had the same questions...
>> Does anyone have a favorite Level II service provider? <<
Answer, Any Level II will do, but it HAS TO BE IN REAL TIME!!!. I will add that Level II is not enough, you really need to follow along w/ real time charts...
>> I'm just curious, how many traders on this board use two computers? <<
Answer, I use 2 computers w/ 3 monitors. The single monitor computer is for making my trades while the duel monitor computer has nothing but "data" and "charts" on it. I have a cable modem and a "dial-up" connection as a back-up. I also have a 3rd computer (lap-top) for a back up to the desk-tops and this computer has a "wire-less" I-net connection that becomes my primary trading PC when I'm on the road (boat)...
EOM Shoreco
PS I hope this helps, and I might offer anyone looking to get into trading to do some "paper" trades first and most important, keep a journal of what worked and what didn't. Once you go from paper to actual "cash" trading you'll will find the "emotions" start to get in the way. If this happens go back to "paper" until you can trade w/out the "fear&greed" taking charge of the "signals".
Last but not least, "patience" is the magic word while you wait for the set-ups (signals) and I've noticed in my own trading when I force or chase a trade, I normally lose...
Hi, chichi. Re: Level II Level II is basically for scalpers. I would tell people interested in learning the ins and outs of this style of trading to study it carefully and then step back, way back, and in a rational moment decide if they really want to do battle with the market makers and specialists for pennies.
If you think that you understand this game and want to be dealt in, consider your poker skills. You'll need to decide if this bidder is bluffing. If that one is holding aces. The game is about manipulation and faking and shaking the other guy out. Unless you're an experienced and successful day or swing trader and simply craving more action, I'd say the average person will have their lunch eaten before they can say, "Shuffle up and deal."
"I just want to do some ground work before the expense of Level II."
Uh-Oh. The word 'expense' appears to me to be a dead give away. If someone is concerned in the least about spending fifty bucks a month or so for L2... well, that's a warning sign that they may not have the bankroll to play with and against the big boys.
"I feel that I'm missing opportunities to make money on short term trades and that the above mentioned arrangement would help."
How 'short term' do you want to get? The shorter the term, the more volatility. The more volatility, the greater the odds that you'll get whipped in and out of trades. Remember, odds are you don't know what the odds are.
And good luck, FLACK ========================================================= From: indexit Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 12:23 PM Respond to of 80699
chichi Use 2 computers (I have had situations where I have had to use 1 for long periods, you can get by). I now have cable isp which I know you can network, and I imagine you can probably network dial up, but if not the cable will not tie up 2 phone lines. I also do not know how speed is affected if you can network dial up and obviously regular vs dsl would make a difference. My brokers trading platform has level 2 quotes, but are only from ecn's. I have that on one screen with charts and on another screen I have more level 2 quotes I get from these sites: http://www.tradearca.com/ (you need to click on the book here, and with the next screen the upper HTML version). The other: http://www.adspecific.com/stockquotestrpl.htm (This is isld and although they have 3 seperate level 2 availible usually only 2 at a time work).
I use the above 2 for greater detail, I actually have this basic from my brokers system, but this shows even more of the depth.
What I do not have is level 2 quotes showing the MM's. Since I trade on ecn's in a way I do not need, but it might be nice to have. Level 2 is essential for scalping and I believe charts must also be used.
Hope that helps. ============================================================ To:chichi2 who wrote (80690) From: bcrafty Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 4:15 PM
chichi, your friend should think carefully about level 2 Your friend isn't going to like what I'm going to tell him, but here it is: forget about level 2 and watch more conventional indicators instead like RSI, MACD, moving averages, etc.
I don't care if he's playing 1-minute charts and has an average holding time of five minutes, there are still better ways to play this game than watching level 2 as a means of doing so. FLACK's analogy to poker playing is a good one, and even moreso his comment about battling the big boys for pennies, IMO. And if it's a fast moving stock (SINA, SOHU, etc) I'd advise to not even try to play level 2 unless one has Superman's reflexes.
Another disadvantage of trying to watch level 2 all the time is you'll frequently get pissed off when they dance around your bid/ask like indexit used to complain about. <g>
I simply think there are better ways to spend my limited time during the trading day than to try to play this way, and I don't know any traders who have lasted any length of time who play primarily by this method. ============================================================ To:shoreco who wrote (80691) From: Louis V. Lambrecht Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 4:50 PM
shoreco - afaik, only the electronics have level II (Canadian exchanges, Nasdaq, CME, Eurex, Euronext,...). Is there Level II info diffused for the Nyse? (beyond ARCA and the electronic exchanges). Thx for the daytradinguniversity link. Some nice tips. ======================================================= From: indexit Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 5:53 PM Respond to of 80699
Loius, NYSE level 2, was not quite sure if you were asking about if it's available. None I know of except on arca, Isld as you mentioned, but often to thinly traded to be of much help. But since this also an opportunity to bash the NYSE exchange, ok. There is no reason for the NYSE not to have level 2, and it's now 20 years late. They were supposed to get it going a while back, but it seems like it's been delayed. Every step toward greater transparency seems to always for some reason hit delays on the exchange, a real pattern of abuse of power. That's the main reason I hated Grasso, it was so obvious he could give a shite about the individual investor, and acutually seemed to take steps to hurt him or her. It will be delayed as long as possible by the power people, but I do think it will happen. If only the specialists would go away, things would be sooo much better. This is simply institutionilzed theft, plain and simple. I posted last night things were picking up a bit on the board, hey I am even throwing out a rant or two these days. ============================================================ To:bcrafty who wrote (80694) From: FLACK Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 8:13 PM View Replies (1) / Respond to of 80699
Re: Level II... bcrafty, well said! Speed is not always the answer... that is, more trades in a shortest possible time frame is a sport for those who are addicted to the juice. For most of us, a bigger radar screen which allows for some slop, is a more dependable game... none of us want to hear, "Dear, your broker is on the phone..."
But, a couple of pieces of FLACK advice (for whatever that's worth) regarding Level II trading...
* Pick stable, predictable stocks. Know the prior price behavior. * Avoid the really volatile stocks. These are the most likely to move TOO much, even without the market marker's games and the price will nose dive a point in the blink of an eye while you're trying to catch a couple of cents. * Move (rotate) between stocks during the day - remember that whatever little trick you use once or twice might soon be detected (recognized) by your opponents and thus turn sour. * DON'T GET GREEDY! Market makers are watching out for day traders. If they recognize you lining up and flipping trades over and over, they'll step in to move the price. This is especially true of the biggest stocks (INTC, MSFT etc.) because the firm puts their most seasoned and skilled people on these stocks. These guys can handle anything you throw at them while maintaining a polite conversation about the weather. * Act with confidence but never hold out for the last crumb. * Watch the S&P futures and other key leading indicators. Look for higher highs and higher lows to identify strength. And the opposite for shorting. * Watch the time of day. Remember that pros and experienced traders generally come in at the end of the day.
That's a start. =============================================================
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