I'll tell you something I've noticed and as much as we all hate them, pumpers and shorts have one very great thing in common, that traders and investors don't. They have unity. They know how to tell each other, hey we are taking this up or down to this certain price and everyone does exactly that until the desired pps is reached. But with us because we are all over the place in goals is next to impossible to get a real true valuation that would be great for everyone. Geez I wish we could be better but I guess that's where they win at
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