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Empiricst1

03/30/20 10:21 PM

#288783 RE: farrell90 #288782

You're right. This type of research should be funded by a fat kitty of money, none of which appears for research in the 2 trillion package, though I have not seen the approved bill, just news snippets.

kfcyahoo

03/30/20 11:30 PM

#288785 RE: farrell90 #288782

"It seems there may be unknown genetic or other factors that make some more susceptible especially the healthy young people who succumb quickly and the resistant older individuals with multiple risk factors who barely get sick.

It would make a good research project."

I'm sure there are many attempting to piece the puzzle together.

I read, a week or two ago, that virus's thrive on elevated blood suger(hyperglycemia). I could not confirm it. What did make sense is that diabetes has been listed as not a good thing to possess if one becomes infected with covid 19. Neither is heart disease and a couple other ailments which are ensnared by diabetes.

Being a type 1 diabetic for over 40 years(pretty could control for t1d, a1c low 6's(which is HIGH for the general public)), I did a little research and discovered that blood sugars rise as people get older.
"RESULTS—In the FOS and NHANES cohorts, A1C levels were positively associated with age in nondiabetic subjects. Linear regression revealed 0.014- and 0.010-unit increases in A1C per year in the nondiabetic FOS and NHANES populations, respectively. The 97.5th percentiles for A1C were 6.0% and 5.6% for nondiabetic individuals aged <40 years in FOS and NHANES, respectively, compared with 6.6% and 6.2% for individuals aged ≥70 years (Ptrend < 0.001). The association of A1C with age was similar when restricted to the subset of FOS subjects with NGT and after adjustments for sex, BMI, fasting glucose, and 2-h postload glucose values.

CONCLUSIONS—A1C levels are positively associated with age in nondiabetic populations even after exclusion of subjects with IFG and/or IGT. Further studies are needed to determine whether age-specific diagnostic and treatment criteria would be appropriate."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2551641/

The advancements in blood sugar control have moved astronomically in the past few decades. Diabetes, mainly via out of whack blood sugars, can stress the body/organs. I wonder, if elevated blood sugars do feed covid 19. Perhaps "a trial could be experimented with in hospitals on covid patients to maintain blood sugars at the safe, but lower ends(70-90 mg/dl), to starve the virus?

Just thinking.

seek the light

03/31/20 8:50 AM

#288813 RE: farrell90 #288782

farrell90...I agree, It is individual Immune System differences, IMO. Right in B wheelhouse!!

KMBJN

03/31/20 11:10 AM

#288901 RE: farrell90 #288782

I was wondering if it was due to variability of genetics in the perforin pathway - where effector cells can't do their job, and inflammation lingers / runs out of control. It is this hyper-immune response that kills many.

Commentary on cytokine storm in COVID19:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30628-0/fulltext


Accumulating evidence suggests that a subgroup of patients with severe COVID-19 might have a cytokine storm syndrome. We recommend identification and treatment of hyperinflammation using existing, approved therapies with proven safety profiles to address the immediate need to reduce the rising mortality.

...

Predictors of fatality from a recent retrospective, multicentre study of 150 confirmed COVID-19 cases in Wuhan, China, included elevated ferritin (mean 1297·6 ng/ml in non-survivors vs 614·0 ng/ml in survivors; p<0·001) and IL-6 (p<0·0001), suggesting that mortality might be due to virally driven hyperinflammation.




Interesting article on cytokine storm, which tends to be what kills in COVID19:

https://www.uab.edu/reporter/know-more/publications/item/8909-here-s-a-playbook-for-stopping-deadly-cytokine-storm-syndrome

Some people have different genetics of the perforin pathway, and are more prone to hyperinflammatory responses / cytokine storm.

Up to 15% of the population

“Cytokines are inflammatory immunologic proteins that are there to fight off infections and ward off cancers,” Cron explained. “But when they’re out of control they can make you very ill.”

Symptoms include high fever, enlarged spleen, excessive bleeding, low counts of all types of blood cells (red, white and platelets) and, potentially, multiple organ failures.

Cron’s research has shown that cytokine storm syndrome is much more common than previously thought — as is the number of people at risk. Scientists seeking the cause of cytokine storm syndrome have focused their attention on the perforin pathway, the series of proteins that work together to deliver perforin. Perforin is a key weapon of the immune system’s cytotoxic T-cells and natural killer cells. They use it to punch holes in the walls of infected, cancerous or otherwise undesirable cells. Then they use these perforin channels to pour in toxic granzyme B, which induces the cells to self-destruct. Mutations in the genes responsible for “any one of the 10-plus proteins that get perforin to do what it does” are linked to a higher risk of cytokine storm syndrome, Cron said.

Some 10% to 15% of the population may carry these mutations, according to Cron’s calculations. Unlike infants, who tend to have two bad copies of one of the 10+ perforin-associated genes, these people have one mutated copy and one normal copy. “Generally, that’s enough to produce all the killing you need,” Cron said. “But if you get the wrong organism or the wrong inflammatory state it may push you over the edge.”



Hopefully some of these immunomodulatory therapies (IL-6 antibodies, immunomodulatory stem cells, CCR5 antibodies - see CYDY - wow, human defensin mimetics like brilacidin) will be able to dampen down the cytokine storm in COVID-19.

CYDY's CCR5 blocker seems to prevent macrophage migration to the site of inflammation, preventing the macrophage induced cytokine storm.

Some of Cron's previous papers on CSS/CRS/MAH/HLH:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7004271/

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2019.00119/full


A robust immune response is desirable at the initial stages of infection, but it is the hyperimmune inflammatory response that kills in the end.

Here is a nice commentary on immune response in COVID-19:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41418-020-0530-3


Two-phase immune responses induced by COVID-19 infection

Clinically, the immune responses induced by SARS-CoV-2 infection are two phased. During the incubation and non-severe stages, a specific adaptive immune response is required to eliminate the virus and to preclude disease progression to severe stages. Therefore, strategies to boost immune responses (anti-sera or pegylated IFNa) at this stage are certainly important. For the development of an endogenous protective immune response at the incubation and non-severe stages, the host should be in good general health and an appropriate genetic background (e.g. HLA) that elicits specific antiviral immunity. Genetic differences are well-known to contribute to individual variations in the immune response to pathogens. However, when a protective immune response is impaired, virus will propagate and massive destruction of the affected tissues will occur, especially in organs that have high ACE2 expression, such as intestine and kidney. The damaged cells induce innate inflammation in the lungs that is largely mediated by pro-inflammatory macrophages and granulocytes. Lung inflammation is the main cause of life-threatening respiratory disorders at the severe stage [4]. Therefore, good general health may not be advantageous for patients who have advanced to the severe stage: once severe lung damage occurs, efforts should be made to suppress inflammation and to manage the symptoms.



That is where anti-IL6, (activated) MSCs/MAPCs, and other anti-inflammatory or immunomodulatory (anti-CCR5) strategies come in.

Three immune-related things predict death: (1) high IL-6, (2) high serum ferritin, and (3) lymphocytopenia. The first two are the cytokine storm from active macrophages, and the third of unknown cause. It's possible the cytokine storm causes lymphocytopenia (possible cause #3 from paper below).

Here is a very nice paper (pre-print) on lymphocytopenia being a predictor of poor outcome:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.01.20029074v1.full.pdf

We speculated four potential mechanisms leading to lymphocyte deficiency. (1) The virus might directly infect lymphocytes, resulting in lymphocyte death. Lymphocytes express the coronavirus receptor ACE2 and may be a direct target of viruses. 9 (2) The virus might directly destroy lymphatic organs. Acute lymphocyte decline might be related to lymphocytic dysfunction, and the direct damage of novel coronavirus virus to organs such as thymus and spleen cannot be ruled out. This hypothesis needs to be confirmed by pathological dissection in the future. (3) Inflammatory cytokines continued to be disordered, perhaps leading to lymphocyte apoptosis. Basic researches confirmed that TNFa, IL-6 and other pro-inflammatory cytokines could induce lymphocyte deficiency 10. (4) Inhibition of lymphocytes by metabolic molecules produced by metabolic disorders, such as hyperlactic acidemia. The severe type of COVID-19 patients had elevated blood lactic acid levels, which might suppress the proliferation of lymphocytes 11. Multiple mechanisms mentioned above or beyond might work together to cause lymphopenia, and further research is needed.



We definitely need more data on which drugs work, and what is happening with the immune response to SARS-CoV-2 in patients that successfully fight it off versus those that don't.