Plastic2Oil Inc (PTOI)

[Arthur Edward Whoof]

Good job researching this topic, however; it might be good to read the entire articles and not just take points out of context to support your argument...

In contrast, if we take your argument for what it is, THIS POSES A BIGGER PROBLEM which exactly supports my point... PLASTIC IS DIFFICULT TO EXTRACT FOR VALUE which is the same argument that I am making. For all of the reasons that it is difficult to obtain plastic from a waste stream for recycling would also apply to obtaining plastic from a waste stream to put it into JBI units.

The single biggest issue that creates the most troubling problem here is that JBI units can not handle mixed plastic or plastic with contaminates. Putting plastic with contaminates into the machine will cause fouling, bad gasses, bad emissions, and variations and contaminates in the fuel output as well as complex changes on a molecular level of the fuel that can render it out of spec.

In order to run the JBI machines it is necessary to sort the plastic and obtain a good, contaminate free stream of specific types of plastic. If you can achieve that you now have plastic that has value on the recycling market (more value than the oil that you can make).

If you have a sorted, contaminate free supply of post industrial plastic, it is already worth more on the recycle market than it is worth trying to turn it into oil. (and spending $50,000,000 and 4 years with no results)


So, with all of the added supporting evidence that you provided in your post, you have led us right back to supporting the premise-

Why the entire premise of JBI’s plastic to oil is FALSE-

The first problem is in the design and permit restrictions…
The JBI machines can ONLY use #2 #4 #5 and #7 plastic (and only a very limited amount of #7).

This means the plastic MUST be SORTED unlike other companies that can handle ALL plastics.

When it comes to SORTED plastic, you get what you pay for.

If you want contaminated mixed plastic that will foul up your machines and break the set emission standards, sure you can get truckloads at (only) $500 a ton.


If you want good, sorted plastic you will pay at least $750 a ton.

If you HAVE good sorted plastic you can SELL it for $750 a ton
(more than the value of the fuel you could make from it!)


If it (only) takes 8 lbs to make a gallon

and (on the best days) you get 6 US brls/ton


IT WILL COST $125/brl JUST IN PLASTIC!

OR, another way to look at it- If you just sort and sell the good plastic that is needed
to run the machines, you could MAKE MORE MONEY!

now add your $10 overhead cost (yeah, right, more like $50mill)

and you are selling $110/brl fuel for a $25 loss per barrel!!!


This math is not double dipping, or accounting for ANY of the long list of other issues previously pointed out AND it is the BEST CASE SCENARIO
(meaning min price for good sorted plastic, max yield for the process, round UP to make it juicier, minimum overhead cost, and at a sell price of $110/brl which is NOT what a WHOLESALE buyer would pay btw).

And if I was RockTenn why on earth would I put plastic in a machine (that holds no IP advantage for my business model and could make me the target of an infringement lawsuit) to turn it into anything.... and lose time and money.... when I could sell the plastic on the open market FOR MORE MONEY and do nothing to it? Why does RockTenn landfill plastic now you ask… simple- IT COST MORE TO SEPARATE IT THAN ITS WORTH!


Just another additional added point to all of the other problems....

Landfill plastic cost time and money to extract it,
once its extracted it has MORE VALUE AS RECYCLED PLASTIC than it has turning it into oil.

http://www.plasticsnews.com/resin/recycled-plastics/current-pricing


When you are permitted to ONLY use landfill plastic and you can ONLY put half of the landfill plastic in the machine or you create toxins and deadly corrosive gasses that will rust and foul up your machine and break emission regulations... then you have MORE PROBLEMS.

Once you spend the time and money to extract HALF of the landfill plastic that you can use, what do you do with the other half? Pay to put it in a landfill (ANOTHER UNMENTIONED ADDED COST) and if you actually started doing this on a regular basis or somehow managed to run at maximum capacity, in a years time you will have dumped well over 100,000 tons of UNUSABLE plastic into a landfill! (that would put you on the map as one of the biggest plastic contributors to negative environmental impact in the state of NY if not the country,… talk about bad PR for a company attempting to gain an earth friendly image)

I have not seen or heard of ANY plastic processing equipment or methods mentioned for JBI... if they were doing this it would be a good idea to let them know that they could qualify for recycling status if they sold the plastic that they separated... and between the break even cost of doing this and the recycling subsides they could get, they might just make a buck or two... oh, that's right, that would get used to pay for the dumping license they would need to get rid of that much BAD plastic that they can't use!


In the end it will become obvious why making oil for only $10 a brl on a commercial level is a misguided fraud...

And why waste management companies don’t find it commercially viable to sort and sell recycled plastic headed to a landfill…

and after 4 years and $50mill it should have become even more obvious that...

MAKING OIL FOR ONLY $10/brl IT IS A LIE.


(Why perpetual motion machines don’t work-

energy in = energy out with loss… ($50,000,000 loss and growing)

THERE IS NO WAY TO GET MORE OUT THAN YOU PUT IN!)


THE PLASTIC HAS A VALUE GREATER THAN THE VALUE OF THE OIL YOU CAN PRODUCE!!!!!!!!!!!!
and government recycling subsidies make sure that this holds true


I can't wait to see how the story ends...
I'm betting on either-

JBI getting caught fudging the production to make it appear that they are finally up and running,
or
JBI blowing the plant up to collect on insurance.