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Thursday, 02/14/2013 3:50:28 PM

Thursday, February 14, 2013 3:50:28 PM

Post# of 32544
thanks for the welcome, Quiver. Your posts are always among the most informative.

I do have a bit of experience and knowledge of PCR methods (medical school only though - no heavy lab work with them)

qPCR (real-time PCR) is, to my knowledge, a very effective and tried-and-true method. However, BioWatch Gen-3 isnt about tried-and-true systems, it's about future systems that can eclipse whatever's out there right now. This is why M-BAND system is not merely any old qPCR system - it is a highly developed one that seems to be honed to pinnacle levels regarding biodefense. What I mean is that M-BAND involves taking the qPCR technique and integrating into a platform designed for pathogen and biothreat agent identification in the real environment (as opposed to lab settings). This is key right here - M-BANDs success, in my opinion, will be heavily determined by not only how well it functions in the real-world environment with regards to the DHS, but also compared to the xMAP platform.

This brings us to the xMAP system. This technology is no push-over. In my opinion, it has huge potential in the future, especially in a more clinical setting (testing samples from a patient, etc). Its biggest strength is its ability to perform 100+ tests on one sample (this is what is meant by its relatively high-throughput) while maintaining reproducibility in its results. This is why that other guy in the Luminex forum said that it's "easier to add more pathogens" in the luminex systems. However, the same thing goes for xMAP system - it must be able to perform in the field. This is why I think that NG's brochure only has it at 6-20+, and not straight-up 100+. So, this again brings us back to testing results.

Besides xMAP's more efficient scalability, I am worried about some other things. First of all, the xMAP systems (at least up until 2010), have been developed in Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, which is a quite the decorated lab. The program is also in collaboration with NG and Luminex, two world-class companies. Also, based on my DD, it seems that their systems (not sure if it's their latest model or their older ones) have been lauded by the government to some extent, and even chosen to be the systems used in "BioWatch 2.5".

However, there are also a few thing's I've noticed that may tip the balance towards our side. First of all, all of the publications, literature, articles, etc regarding the xMAP-based system have basically come to a halt at approximately 2010. I was able to find many articles (scientific literature) and presentations about the system with dates preceding the end of 2010. After that, it stopped. Additionally, i don't see any evidence of LLN Laboratory being the one to further develop the system. In fact, the name on the brochure, "NG-ADS" is different from its original LLNL name, "APDS-150, APDS-300, etc" (it had different models). This leads me to believe that either LLNL is no longer involved, or NG acquired full rights to sell it. If the former, then it is possible that NG has no clue what it's doing (especially because some of the vague stats on the NG brochure come directly from some old LLNL literature from 2009). This might be why Boeing recently decided to back PSID, since it saw its competitor recently floundering. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that based on my DD, I have found tons of articles and presentations lauding the achievements and future of the system up until around 2010/2011, after which I cant find anything of nearly the same substance.

Furthermore, I found an abstract of a publication regarding M-BAND (didn't read full article since you have to pay for it lol). This article was dated more recently (2011). This article spoke of positive results, including absolutely no false positives when testing with both in-house samples and unknown random samples provided by DHS. Based on my DD, it seems plausible to me that while luminex system has been successful up till recently, the tables may have turned and M-BAND seems to be in the lead - that is, of course, unless everybody involved in the luminex system is keeping their information top secret or something.

Anyways, I can type essays on what I think lol, but I'll just leave it at that for now unless you guys would like to hear more. I will post all of the articles i found later on, since I do not have the links/pdfs with me at the moment.

But anyways, while M-BAND might pass all the DHS test requirements, that doesnt mean it guarantee win the contract (since it has to also beat competitors). I, for one, am not going to say this will be a KO. I think it will come down to a decision unless NG-ADS doesnt even send in a draft/plan on competing lol. If they are competing for it, we are going up against a cutting edge technology backed by well-established entities.

Tomorrow is the deadline for the draft proposal, right? I hope we will know, by tomorrow, if NG is bidding for the contract. I dont think that theyve said anything recently about it, right? I cannot imagine why they would not, unless a DHS contract like this is not important to a compay specializing mainly in aerospace and weapon systems.
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