That is the base line, still. Yes it does take grit, start ups are no bed of roses , and there are no get rich schemes, it's hard work. Some things arise when you run a business that require extra funding, period.if SNEY had got a bank loan, I'll bet you it would have been applauded, well $ is $, and liabilities are no different, period. They are running a business and have a lot more on the line than any one person here.