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Re: None

Friday, 06/03/2005 11:10:44 AM

Friday, June 03, 2005 11:10:44 AM

Post# of 33129
The real DD- not from the haze of stupidity


Posted by: osignal2001
In reply to: None Date:5/24/2005 9:14:04 AM
Post #of 866

Some basic DD, pics and past posts;

TNOG is a Junior Oil company that is looking great. Check the chart and you will see a 4 month uptrend. A lot of buzz is being generated on TNOG and its production potential.

Chart Provided By Dragon52

http://stockcharts.com/def/servlet/SC.web?c=tnog,uu[g,a]dicayyay[db][pb50!b200!b25!b13!b5][vc60][iut....

Current share structure info per IR: last checked 03/28/2005
750 million authorized
660 million O/S (330 million held by insiders)
Roughly 330 million float

Website: www.titanoilandgas.com

TNOG Check these oil tank pic's out, say VALIDATION?

There had been word of a wait period for new oil tanks required to perform the certification testing on the new oil strike at well#3, seems these pictures support the rumblings. These tanks have been estimated at 5000 gallons each!

By DRAGON52 on RB: some picutres not posted before... tnog

http://www.novakcapital.com/TNOGgallery/07.html

water doesn't burn and oil does burn doesn't it?

http://www.novakcapital.com/TNOGgallery/10.html

Website has many pictures of current drilling site, you can also observe a video feed from the latest oil strike, it is also below in DD page.

Titan Oil and Gas currently has plans for 20+ wells to be pumping oil. They currently have well "Stanley #1" already showing great signs of pressure and having produced around 1000 barrels of oil during January 2005. Updates are expected on wells Stanley #1B (well#2) as well #3.

In the Wilson County Project there are 20 existing abandoned vertical well bores that can be used to launch new horizontal laterals. Although it is difficult to determine exact reserves in the Wilson County field as a whole, an estimate can be made based on its size – approximately three miles long and ¾ miles wide. As such, a minimum of Two Million barrels of recoverable oil can be assumed, as well as appx. Four million mcf (thousand cubic feet) of natural gas.

Latest Update: They are going to allow the transfer agent to give out current share structure info as a way of building trust with investors. This was investors can verify themselves that the company is not diluting, nor up to any funny business.

Expecting production numbers soon and they intend to drill more holes on different locations. Look for updates soon.

TNOG FYI from our Petroleum Engineer

The advantage with this technology is that we can use existing wellbores in order to "kick off" for horizontal laterals. The ability to use small casing for this technique as well as the decrease in costs as this technology has become more common, results in a unique opportunity - see the recent article an overview of horizontal technology attached (attachment no. 5). As we can use abandoned wells in this field in order to produce the reserves in place, it reduces our costs from $750,000 to approx. $150,000 per well.

DD by: narrowway2001
22 May 2005
3 wells at 50bpd = 150bpd x $50 a barrel =$7,500.Thats 2.7 million $ a year. 2.7 mill./ 670 mill. shs. =.004 earn.per sh. x PE oF 14 = A SHARE PRICE of .056---shortly.
AND with 15 wells, that would be 5 x .056 for a SHARE Price of .28...very conservative,no pump..
-----------OIL SMELLS LIKE VICTORY-------------------------

DD by: rtplacerttime
07 May 2005, 11:35 AM EDT Msg. 9209 of 9265

Two things: The companies exploring for oil are having a hard time getting there hands on equipment. You have stated that and I confirmed that with DD. Second, I have talked with Clayton at the TNOG IR Co. He had me believe that they were to release flow numbers this past week on Well #3, but that did not happen. I don't like being misled, for whatever reason. So I called the most direct person with the company. That person returned my call. I asked him very pointed questions about the current and future projects. He gave the answers. I may have not liked what I heard because they showed that Clayton was not honest with me. The point being is the Amount of Oil in Well #3 is big. Once they get the proper equipment in to verify what they already know, a PR will give us shareholders and the general public the facts. The company in my opinion does not want to put out info that may be overly optimistic. The numbers from Well #3 will be what they will be. Any number should have a positive impact on the SP. We seem to have a good bunch of people here on this board doing excellent DD. As everyone continues there own input from the DD that they are doing, it will help the overall SP gain ground in a nice upward fashion.

by: rtplacerttime 07 May 2005, 11:35 AM EDT
Msg. 9209 of 9265

Gabe, The PE who I spoke to believes that they have hit big oil. As I posted before, they needed larger holding tanks to confirm the pressure they had when they made it through the last core of the Phase 1 of drilling. To get the flows #s, they must pump and sustain a constant pressure for a period of time. Since they are getting so much oil/pressure that means they needs these larger tanks.

For instance, your water at your house pumps somewhere around 14 gpm. So to do an accurate test, you would need at least a 50 gallon drum to perform a test that would quantify your pressure reading.

By Dragon52 10 May 2005, 10:59 AM EDT
Msg. 9754 of 10151

Well #3 Video is in the press release section...

http://www.titanoilandgas.com/news_release.htm

nice... and it ain't water... slicky stuff is oil...

waiting for the tank battery so it can flow... soon real soon.

Info from Zeus earlier;
By: zeus_otc_god
18 Mar 2005, 09:59 PM EST
Msg. 571034 of 597667
Jump to msg. #
TNOG "Please All Read........

I live in San Antonio, Texas less than 30 miles from Wilson County. I know that that whole area has tons of oil, wells are all over the place and I have a couple friends that are getting royalties from wells on their land out that way. I was somewhat skeptical if this company was real or not and this is what I found. I traced down the Wilson County Clerks Office and spoke with a woman named Yvonne. I had her look up to see if their were any Oil Leases under Titan Consolidated Inc. She found recent paper work dated Aug 2004 filed by Peter Maupin (Titan's Petroleum Engineer) in behalf on Titan Consolidated Inc. for 15 Oil Leases; they bought the leases and the equipment in writing. She read me some of it that told about Titan buying leases and equipment and that Peter Maupin will received 1/32 of profit from all leases, she offered to fax me the copies but I did not have a fax. Her name is Yvonne, Wilson County Clerks Office, and her phone # is 1-830-393-7308(in San Antonio we do not have to put the "1" in front of number to call but you may need to. not sure). I believe she would be glad to fax you a copy of the Permits and maybe some one could scan and post it, she looked it up under Peter Mapin. Some more info I got from IR which seems to mesh with what I found in Wilson County. According to IR their is 660mil o/s, 330 mil float. They have one well producing 100 barrels a day free flowing (not being pumped yet) and others on the way not to say Natural gas. So this Company is """REAL""" and """PRODUCING""" lock, stock, and barrel...verified. I loaded up today and will be loading up more on Monday....god bless all.

by qcjaguars: 20 May 2005 I think it's worth noting that this excellent DD has also been followed up on by others here on the board. For example, I too called the Wilson County Clerk and talked with Yvonne who sent me about 20 pages of recorded documents confirming Titan's ownership in the leases. This was very easy to do and Yvonne seems more than willing to mail (at THEIR expense) any recorded documents from her office.

Reported OIL Out Put
http://webapps.rrc.state.tx.us/PDQ/home.do
STANLEY UNIT
LEASE# 07485
FIELD# 69707200
OPERATOR# 616819
NUTEK OIL INC
900 NE LOOP 410 STE E-121
SAN ANTONIO TX 78209
(210) 829-0442
PRODUCTION:
MONTH BARRELS
Sep-04 0
Oct-04 196
Nov-04 0
Dec-04 378
Jan-05 1,003

Some detail on the well that hit 300ft above the target in phase II

Kosciusko # 1 is a vertical re-completion of an existing horizontal well with a history of good production. The Company is drilling vertically from the bottom of the existing hole appx. 550 feet to the target zone, for a total depth of appx. 7,200'. Phase 1 of the drilling program has now been completed, with 4 concrete plugs drilled out to a total depth of 3,589', and steel tubing has been ordered from Cressman Tubular, of Addison, TX.

Titan's Petroleum Engineer, Pete Maupin, comments: "Everything has progressed as expected thus far. We have ordered a large workover rig, capable of deep drilling to reach our target depth, from Capital Well Services of Charlotte, TX. We look forward to the completion of this well." (**This is new completed**)

DD: TheCardinalR
23 May 2005, 08:39 PM EDT
If they can establish to the RRC that this well is producing from an entirely new formation beneath the Austin Chalk - and there seems to be little doubt that they have done so - there'll be a new allowable determination, anyway, being from a heretofore unproduced formation. The RRC isn't in the business of penalising people for having the guts to look further up - or down - an existing wellbore.

DD: TheCardinalR
23 May 2005, 08:28 PM EDT
And here's the specific section discussing "allowables" for oil wells:
http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_....

DD: IMO A Very Good Post By: TheCardinalR
19 Apr 2005, 02:40 PM EDT Msg. 1384 of 7445

It was no coincidence that this DOA lawsuit balloon was floated immediately after the news of what was clearly a defining moment for the Company. Thieves don't try to steal something - even legally - unless they think there's something worth stealing.

But be that as it may; the sentence in the PR that kept returning to my mind, over and over, was this one:

"We encountered high pressures 300 feet above our original target zone and decided to complete the well at this depth."

and I alluded to this in an earlier post on this thread as being very significant. Now, after some research in the RRC's archives and some calls to friends in the Oil Patch down that way, this piece of information takes on even greater significance.

They've encountered this formation on what appears to be a structural "high" based on the regional dip in that area. Extrapolating production data from wells to the west [ regional dip in that part of TX runs west-to-east, with the rise being in an easterly direction ] and talking to people familiar with the area convinces me they've found this formation right at its "sweet spot", the point at which a formation gives best production. The "...high pressures" encountered support this theory.

So, it's no surprise that Snidely Whiplash and The Gang From The Great White North are now trying to steal it, legally.

Lead time example from IHUB
Posted by: farnrth1 Date: 5/5/2005 1:47:35 PM
(notice dates)

The time frame for testing this co. has after completing a well

Thursday, November 18, 2004
Maverick Oil and Gas, Inc. has reached total drill depth of 6,245' on Travis 641-H, the second well in its Maverick Basin project in Texas, and is awaiting completion after the rig moves off location. Maverick anticipates that testing will be completed in two weeks, after which facilities and pipelines will be constructed. First sales are anticipated early next year. A third well is expected to be started sometime in January.

TNOG gets listed under New & Expanding Business for March.
http://www.oilonline.com/news/headlines/business/

Posted by the CardinalR, New Math

Here's the rule-of-thumb math:
[bbls/day] X $spotpriceofoil X 30 X .875 = gross production revenue - per month.

The .875 multiplier takes care of the mineral owner(s)' 1/8 cut.

Now, out of gross production revenue everybody gets their respective Working Interest share, LESS taxes, fees, and what Everybody-Else-With-Their-Hand-Out can make a legal, legitimate claim upon.



Posted by: farnrth1 Date:5/7/2005 2:27:42 PM

Notice the reference to pressure as to what has occurred on well 3
Extraction

Generally the first stage in the extraction of crude oil is to drill a well into the underground reservoir. Historically, in the USA some oil fields existed where the oil rose naturally to the surface, but most of these fields have long since been depleted. Often many wells will be drilled into the same reservoir, to ensure that the extraction rate will be economically viable. Also some wells may be used to pump water, steam or various gas mixtures into the reservoir to raise or maintain the reservoir pressure, and so maintain an economic extraction rate.

If the underground pressure in the oil reservoir is sufficient then the oil will be forced to the surface under this pressure. Gaseous fuels or natural gas are usually present, which also supplies needed underground pressure. In this situation it is sufficient to place a complex arrangement of valves on the well head to connect the well to a pipeline network for storage and processing.

Over the lifetime of the well the pressure will fall, and at some point there will be insufficient underground pressure to force the oil to the surface and the remaining oil in the well must be pumped out. see: Energy balance and Net energy gain.

Various techniques aid in recovering oil from depleted or low pressure reservoirs, including Beam Pumps, Electrical Submersible Pumps (ESPs), and Gas Lift. Other techniques include Water Injection and Gas Re-injection, which help to maintain reservoir pressure.


Great Post by farnrth1 over at IHUB
In reply to: None Date: 5/9/2005 6:02:46 PM
Post 434 of 439
Very very interesting info on the Edwards lime formation (note last paragraph)

Regional Geology

The Edwards Shelf Margin trend is parallel to the Gulf Coast from Florida to Mexico. The Edwards Formation is a lower Cretaceous limestone that is 400 to 650 feet thick. The Edwards Lime is roughly divisible into three rock types that were defined by different environments of deposition. The three environments and corresponding rock types are:

1. Back Reef type, tight, pure limestone’s and dolomites that were deposited in shallow water on a broad area north of the reef and shelf margin.

2. Reef and Shelf Margin type, reef and high-energy limestone’s with varying porosity and permeability. These rocks form a one to two mile wide band that extend from Webb and La Salle Counties, through Live Oak County, into Lavaca County. This is where most of the Edwards production occurs.

3. Fore-reef and Basin; shaley limestone and shale which occupy all of the area south of the reef edge. These rocks were deposited in deeper water south of the reef.

The Edwards reef and shelf margin have long been a target for oil and gas exploration. The first phase of activity occurred in the mid 60’s. A second period of activity was during the late 1970’s to mid 1980’s. Edwards’s reservoirs are characterized by a thick or tall gas column, low permeability, moderately low porosity, long reserve life, and gas which contain some carbon dioxide and hydrogen sulfide. Average reserves for a vertical Edwards well are about 2 BCF, but because of the nature of the limestone reservoir they vary dramatically from .5 BCF to over 15 BCF.

Recent work in the Edwards Formation has shown that fracturing and faulting are very important to porosity and permeability development in the reservoir. It now seems likely that many of the “good” Edwards wells intersect small faults and/or fracture swarms that in effect greatly increase the surface area of the wellbore and therefore “producibility” of the well. The recognition of the role of faulting and fracturing in Edwards’s production has led to the realization that horizontal drilling will substantially reduce the chances of drilling marginal wells in the Edwards. In fact horizontal drilling may increase average reserve recovery, increase initial production rate, and accelerate reserve recovery.

By Osignal: TNOG "flowing the well" IMO Good Stuff Going ON!
Some Well Testing Info:
3.3 Extended/Transient AOF and Stabilized AOF
Section 4.3 of Guide 40 clearly states that for the initial deliverability relationship: "A stabilized rate is required to be a calculated value, based on the time to pseudo steady state. This calculation corrects the actual extended test rate to a lower estimated stabilized rate. Higher permeability reservoirs will have very little correction to stabilize, where lower permeability reservoirs will have a large correction. Although the time to pseudo steady state varies with the well geometry and reservoir shape, one can assume a well in the center of a one-section drainage area for a gas well; or if the data or mapping suggests a different drainage area, adjustments must be made as indicated in section 5 of EUB Guide 3: Gas Well Testing Theory and Practice."

Some confusion has existed as to which deliverability relationship must be reported to the EUB for an initial test. Often, the most practical and prudent method of conducting an initial deliverability test would involve flowing the well for an extended period of time rather than to complete pressure stabilization. An extended AOF can then be determined, and the stabilized relationship would be derived through calculations using the extended values with reservoir properties obtained from pressure build-up analysis on the well.

http://www.eub.gov.ab.ca/BBS/requirements/gbs/bulletin-2004-15.htm

TNOG Right Place? By stockrocker IHUB: Oil Fields Are Refilling...Naturally - Sometimes Rapidly
There Are More Oil Seeps Than All The Tankers On Earth
By Robert Cooke
Staff Writer - Newsday.com
4-10-5


Deep underwater, and deeper underground, scientists see surprising hints that gas and oil deposits can be replenished, filling up again, sometimes rapidly.

Although it sounds too good to be true, increasing evidence from the Gulf of Mexico suggests that some old oil fields are being refilled by petroleum surging up from deep below, scientists report. That may mean that current estimates of oil and gas abundance are far too low.

Recent measurements in a major oil field show "that the fluids were changing over time; that very light oil and gas were being injected from below, even as the producing [oil pumping] was going on," said chemical oceanographer Mahlon "Chuck" Kennicutt. "They are refilling as we speak. But whether this is a worldwide phenomenon, we don't know."

Also not known, Kennicutt said, is whether the injection of new oil from deeper strata is of any economic significance, whether there will be enough to be exploitable. The discovery was unexpected, and it is still "somewhat controversial" within the oil industry.

Kennicutt, a faculty member at Texas A&M University, said it is now clear that gas and oil are coming into the known reservoirs very rapidly in terms of geologic time. The inflow of new gas, and some oil, has been detectable in as little as three to 10 years. In the past, it was not suspected that oil fields can refill because it was assumed the oil formed in place, or nearby, rather than far below.

According to marine geologist Harry Roberts, at Louisiana State University, "petroleum geologists don't accept it as a general phenomenon because it doesn't happen in most reservoirs. But in this case, it does seem to be happening. You have a very leaky fault system that does allow it to migrate in. It's directly connected to an oil and gas generating system at great depth."

What the scientists suspect is that very old petroleum -- formed tens of millions of years ago -- has continued migrating up into reservoirs that oil companies have been exploiting for years. But no one had expected that depleted oil fields might refill themselves.

Now, if it is found that gas and oil are coming up in significant amounts, and if the same is occurring in oil fields around the globe, then a lot more fuel than anyone expected could become available eventually. It hints that the world may not, in fact, be running out of petroleum.

"No one has been more astonished by the potential implications of our work than myself," said analytic chemist Jean Whelan, at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, in Massachusetts. "There already appears to be a large body of evidence consistent with ... oil and gas generation and migration on very short time scales in many areas globally," she wrote in the journal Sea Technology.

"Almost equally surprising," she added, is that "there seem to be no compelling arguments refuting the existence of these rapid, dynamic migration processes."

The first sketchy evidence of this emerged in 1984, when Kennicutt and colleagues from Texas A&M University were in the Gulf of Mexico trying to understand a phenomenon called "seeps," areas on the seafloor where sometimes large amounts of oil and gas escape through natural fissures.

"Our first discovery was with trawls. We knew it was an area of massive seepage, and we expected that the oil seeps would poison everything around" the site. But they found just the opposite.

"On the first trawl, we brought up over two tons of stuff. We had a tough time getting the nets back on board because they were so full" of very odd-looking sea.floor creatures, Kennicutt said. "They were long strawlike things that turned out to be tube worms.

"The clams were the first thing I noticed," he added. "They were pretty big, like the size of your hand, and it was obvious they had red blood inside, which is unusual. And these long tubes -- 3, 4 and 5 feet long -- we didn't know what they were, but they started bleeding red fluid, too. We didn't know what to make of it."

The biologists they consulted did know what to make of it. "The experts immediately recognized them as chemo-synthetic communities," creatures that get their energy from hydrocarbons -- oil and gas -- rather than from ordinary foods. So these animals are very much like, but still different from, recently discovered creatures living near very hot seafloor vent sites in the Pacific, Atlantic and other oceans.

The difference, Kennicutt said, is that the animals living around cold seeps live on methane and oil, while the creatures growing near hot water vents exploit sulfur compounds in the hot water.

The discovery of abundant life where scientists expected a deserted seafloor also suggested that the seeps are a long-duration phenomenon. Indeed, the clams are thought to be about 100 years old, and the tube worms may live as long as 600 years, or more, Kennicutt said.

The surprises kept pouring in as the researchers explored further and in more detail using research submarines. In some areas, the methane-metabolizing organisms even build up structures that resemble coral reefs.

It has long been known by geologists and oil industry workers that seeps exist. In Southern California, for example, there are seeps near Santa Barbara, at a geologic feature called Coal Oil Point. And, Roberts said, it's clear that "the Gulf of Mexico leaks like a sieve. You can't take a submarine dive without running into an oil or gas seep. And on a calm day, you can't take a boat ride without seeing gigantic oil slicks" on the sea surface.

Roberts added that natural seepage in places like the Gulf of Mexico "far exceeds anything that gets spilled" by oil tankers and other sources.

"The results of this have been a big surprise for me," said Whelan. "I never would have expected that the gas is moving up so quickly and what a huge effect it has on the whole system."

Although the oil industry hasn't shown great enthusiasm for the idea -- arguing that the upward migration is too slow and too uncommon to do much good -- the search for new oil and gas supplies already has been affected, Whelan and Kennicutt said. Now, companies scan the sea surface for signs of oil slicks that might point to new deposits.

"People are using airplane surveys for the slicks and are doing water column fluorescence measurements looking for the oil," Whelan said. "They're looking for the sources of the seeps and trying to hook that into the seismic evidence" normally used in searching for buried oil.

Similar research on known oil basins in the North Sea is also under way, and "that oil is very interesting. There are absolutely marvelous pictures of coral reefs which formed from seepage [of gas] from North Sea reservoirs," Whelan said.

Analysis of the ancient oil that seems to be coming up from deep below in the Gulf of Mexico suggests that the flow of new oil "is coming from deeper, hotter formations" and is not simply a lateral inflow from the old deposits that surround existing oil fields, she said. The chemical composition of the migrating oil also indicates it is being driven upward and is being altered by highly pressurized gases squeezing up from below.

This upwelling phenomenon, Whelan noted, fits into a classic analysis of the world's oil and gas done years ago by geochemist-geologist John Hunt. He suggested that less than 1 percent of the oil that is generated at depth ever makes it into exploitable reservoirs. About 40 percent of the oil and gas remains hidden, spread out in the tiny pores and fissures of deep sedimentary rock formations.

And "the remaining 60 percent," Whelan said, "leaks upward and out of the sediment" via the numerous seeps that occur globally.

Also, the idea that dynamic migration of oil and gas is occurring implies that new supplies "are not only charging some reservoirs at the present time, but that a huge fraction of total oil and gas must be episodically or continuously bypassing reservoirs completely and seeping from surface sediments on a relatively large scale," Whelan explained.

So far, measurements involving biological and geological analysis, plus satellite images, "show widespread and pervasive leakage over the entire northern slope of the Gulf of Mexico," she added.

"For example, Ian MacDonald at Texas A&M has published some remarkable satellite photographs of oil slicks which go for miles in the Gulf of Mexico in areas where no oil production is occurring." Before this research in oil basins began, she added, "changes in reservoired oils were not suspected, so no reliable data exists on how widespread the phenomenon might be in the Gulf Coast or elsewhere."

The researchers, especially the Texas team, have been working on this subject for almost 15 years in collaboration with oil industry experts and various university scientists. Their first focus was on the zone called South Eugene Island block 330, which is 150 miles south of New Orleans. It is known as one of the most productive oil and gas fields in the world. The block lies in water more than 300 feet deep.

As a test, the researchers attempted to drill down into a known fault zone that was thought to be a natural conduit for new petroleum. The drilling was paid for by the U.S. Department of Energy.

Whelan recalled that as the drill dug deeper and deeper, the project seemed to be succeeding, but then it abruptly ended in failure. "We were able to produce only a small amount of oil before the fault closed, like a giant straw," probably because reducing the pressure there allowed the fissure to collapse.

In addition to the drilling effort and the inspection of seeps, Whelan and her colleagues reported that three-dimensional seismic profiles of the underground reservoirs commonly show giant gas plumes coming from depth and disrupting sediments all the way to the surface.

This also shows that in an area west of the South Eugene Island area, a giant gas plume originates from beneath salt about 15,000 feet down and then disrupts the sediment layers all the way to the surface. The surface expression of this plume is very large -- about 1,500 feet in diameter. One surprise, Whelan said, was that the gas plume seems to exist outside of faults, the ground fractures, which at present are the main targets of oil exploration.

It is suspected that the process of upward migration of petroleum is driven by natural gas that is being continually produced both by deeply buried bacteria and from oil being broken down in the deeper, hotter layers of sediment. The pressures and heat at great depth are thought to be increasing because the ground is sinking -- subsiding -- as a result of new sediments piling up on top. The site is part of the huge delta formed over thousands of years by the southward flow of the massive Mississippi River. Like other major deltas, the Mississippi's outflow structure is continually being built from sands, muds and silts washed off the continent.

Analysis of the oil being driven into the reservoirs suggests they were created during the so-called Jurassic and Early Cretaceous periods (100 million to 150 million years ago), even before the existing basin itself was formed. This means the source rock is buried and remains invisible to seismic imaging beneath layers of salt.

In studying so-called biomarkers in the oil, Whelan said, it was concluded that the oil is closely related to other very old oils, implying that it "was probably generated very early and then remained trapped at depth until recently." And, she added, other analyses "show that this oil must have remained trapped at depths and temperatures much greater than those of the present-day producing reservoirs."

At great depth, where the heat and pressure are high enough, she explained, methane is produced by oil being "cracked," and production of gas "is able to cause sufficient pressure to periodically open the fracture system and allow upward fluid flow of methane, with entrapment of oil in its path."

For reference only, and not a recommendation to buy or sell, always do you own DD prior to investing