AI
Saturday, January 04, 2003 4:55:29 PM
Interesting post today on RB by Flecksman....Funny how after all this time, reality is finally beginning to seep into the minds of those members of the cult that were convinced that bashers were their only problem. Funny how questions that I raised two years ago and was burnt at the stake for, are now just interesting discussions by longterm shareholders.
I note that Plan B is now officially a dead issue. I find this quite surprising. He claims that "folks" wanted it to stop. I am curious as to which folks, and for what reason? Are the folks, company folks? Are they shareholder folks? Are they instructed folks? Why in the world would you just let Vince go about his business when he received the letter and it supposedly was legally and properly issued? Did Vince refuse to disclose numbers after speaking with his attorneys? Flecks doesn't say. Could any shareholder have hand delivered the message to the PCBM office? Again, Flecks doesn't say. Like polling the jury after a trial, I would like to see a list of all those opposed to continuing with Plan B. I would love to see their reasoning behind doing so.
Flecks asked what shareholders would do if they found out the company had been deceptive? I think seeing how they dealt with Plan B, you have your answer. NOTHING!
Do shareholders expect that the SEC will seek restitution for them? I don't believe that is the job of the SEC. They may halt a company from doing further business. They may fine a company for misrepresentations. I think the settlement of any losses seeked by shareholders though, are left in the hands of personal attorneys and class action suits, and unfortunately suing a bankrupt company is not prudent.
I owned another penny stock company, where the CEO had previously been founding guilty of defrauding shareholders and fined. However, shareholders defended him as a small error in judgement. Well eventually, the guy took down the company but before doing so, he sold others and me private placement stock under false pretenses. The SEC investigated, we provided the SEC with proof of wrongdoings, showing proof of where he outright lied to us, yet they decided the case was still not worth pursuing. The shareholder again, got nothing.
In my mind, the whole situation has never been about whether PCBM had been shorted or not. Nobody could ever show proof positive that shorting in itself was illegal or whether there was any way to do anything about it if it was. The question has always been about whether the company themselves had ever given any reason not to be shorted into oblivion, whether the company themselves were involved in the shorting, and whether or not the company would settle directly with any shorters ultimately bypassing the loyal shmoes who trusted blindly. It is a shame that it has taken so many this long to find their answers.
Below is flecksmans post, if anyone cares to read it.
By: certified_flecksman
04 Jan 2003, 01:17 PM EST Msg. 872457 of 872538
(This msg. is a reply to 872404 by dmf97.)
About the "Flecksman's" posts...
At this point in time it is MHO that very little creedance should be given to any posts regarding PCBM and what will or will not happen. Being someone who, some think, has the "inside track" on PCBM I can assure that I do not and neither does anybody else. This may be one of the most perplexing situations that I have ever been involved in.
What is PCBM and where is it going? I mean right here as of Jan 4, 2003? Anyone claiming to know is guessing and, more than likly, wishful thinkers. That goes for shorts and longs alike because, IMO, both sides are caught up in something which could have a dramatic affect on their financial futures. This is motivation enough for longs to cling to every new rumor and shorts to pound each and every positive thought right into the ground. Both sides want and need to be right. Both sides could still come out on top or lose big time.
It's time to be realistic. (That goes for me as well) WE KNOW NOTHING! Sure, we (longs) can debate what could happen and (shorts) can continue to debate what is likly to happen. The reality is NO ONE KNOWS! I'll speak for myself and then be on about my day. Here is where I have reason to believe we are with PCBM. In order of importance and IMHO:
1) Our government (SEC) needs to close it's books on its investigation and let us all know the verdict or if we will have to wait for July 2004 for this to play out.
2) Our leaders need to get their SSHIT together and PR exactly where we are and where we are going. From a business standpoint, just what is the current business plan. I have to say that no news is not good news. Not after this much time has passed and not with the daily volume being what it is. A simple PR about the share structure would speak volumes and we are entitled to know. Non-reporting to the government is one thing, Non-reporting to the shareholders is quite a different matter.
3) Mr. LoCastro still answers his phone and feeds the masses information one ear at a time. Should we be thankful or demand more. Anything said to investors on the phone means nothing and most who talk to Vince will tell you that he will tell you nothing of substance. Many people told even the same thing will misinterpret, misunderstand, miscommunicate, embellish etc. and it all means nothing.
4) PLAN B is DEAD. End of story. The reason is that those who sought to undermind it were successful and I must bow to the wishes of the majority. I'm not about being the leader of a powerful revolt. I thought folks wanted answers. Apparently most want to let this play out. That is what will happen and PLAN B will be shelved for now.
I would personally suggest that this group of longs pick a focal point and stick to it. IMHO that point is the share structure. If you call V, T, or H and chat for an hour a day and get no information it means nothing. If you call or email I suggest you demand to know where the shares are coming from. If they are willing to say that they don't know over the phone than they should be willing to say so in writing. Until this matter is resolved IMO any other information is mute.
Ask yourself this, why on God's green earth would the share structure of an organization be such a secret? Sure, maybe a year ago we may have thought that it served some grander plan. A "trap" for the shorts. IMO there is no more fundamental question than authorized and outstanding shares to ANY publicly traded company and certainly to ours. Good or bad lets have it. People's lives are in limbo and will be until this information is made public. We must clean our own house before we spend endless hours debating our enemies and call our friends to see what they have heard. That is pure BS. I don't care about anything else until I know whether dillution has taken place or not. I still think this issue is shorted massively but it may very well be deluted as well. Whats to stop management from selling their shares to shorty after deluting and walking away.
It's not a matter of whether or not you trust V, T, or H any longer. They have all the time they need to do their job but they should let us no point blank what the share structure looks like. We are the ones averaging down. It's our money and it's our company. Let's focus on one thing. SHARE STRUCTURE! It's a simple question to answer and fundimental to the outcome here. That announcement alone would clear up a great deal and put many souls at peace. Is management willfully and knowingly deceiving us and, if so, what are you willing to do about it if that truth comes out? IMO these are the question we need to be asking ourselves and discussing.
I bought more yesterday based on my belief that every dog has it's day. What are we going to do if the normal course that should have happened here was purposely severed for the greed of those entrusted to manage our company? Maybe everything is under control and maybe management has in motion a plan to make us all wealthy beyond our wildest dreams. It's time that we know the simplest of things. Those PRs that announced share retirment and a stock buyback program. If that was true and has happened we will be VERY wealthy. If, after announcing that, the opposite happened then fraud has occured. It's time to demand to know. No more double-talk. No more figuring it out for ourselves based on logic. It's time for the facts so that we can decide just what we are going to do about it.
JMHO,
Certified_Flecksman
Derf
I note that Plan B is now officially a dead issue. I find this quite surprising. He claims that "folks" wanted it to stop. I am curious as to which folks, and for what reason? Are the folks, company folks? Are they shareholder folks? Are they instructed folks? Why in the world would you just let Vince go about his business when he received the letter and it supposedly was legally and properly issued? Did Vince refuse to disclose numbers after speaking with his attorneys? Flecks doesn't say. Could any shareholder have hand delivered the message to the PCBM office? Again, Flecks doesn't say. Like polling the jury after a trial, I would like to see a list of all those opposed to continuing with Plan B. I would love to see their reasoning behind doing so.
Flecks asked what shareholders would do if they found out the company had been deceptive? I think seeing how they dealt with Plan B, you have your answer. NOTHING!
Do shareholders expect that the SEC will seek restitution for them? I don't believe that is the job of the SEC. They may halt a company from doing further business. They may fine a company for misrepresentations. I think the settlement of any losses seeked by shareholders though, are left in the hands of personal attorneys and class action suits, and unfortunately suing a bankrupt company is not prudent.
I owned another penny stock company, where the CEO had previously been founding guilty of defrauding shareholders and fined. However, shareholders defended him as a small error in judgement. Well eventually, the guy took down the company but before doing so, he sold others and me private placement stock under false pretenses. The SEC investigated, we provided the SEC with proof of wrongdoings, showing proof of where he outright lied to us, yet they decided the case was still not worth pursuing. The shareholder again, got nothing.
In my mind, the whole situation has never been about whether PCBM had been shorted or not. Nobody could ever show proof positive that shorting in itself was illegal or whether there was any way to do anything about it if it was. The question has always been about whether the company themselves had ever given any reason not to be shorted into oblivion, whether the company themselves were involved in the shorting, and whether or not the company would settle directly with any shorters ultimately bypassing the loyal shmoes who trusted blindly. It is a shame that it has taken so many this long to find their answers.
Below is flecksmans post, if anyone cares to read it.
By: certified_flecksman
04 Jan 2003, 01:17 PM EST Msg. 872457 of 872538
(This msg. is a reply to 872404 by dmf97.)
About the "Flecksman's" posts...
At this point in time it is MHO that very little creedance should be given to any posts regarding PCBM and what will or will not happen. Being someone who, some think, has the "inside track" on PCBM I can assure that I do not and neither does anybody else. This may be one of the most perplexing situations that I have ever been involved in.
What is PCBM and where is it going? I mean right here as of Jan 4, 2003? Anyone claiming to know is guessing and, more than likly, wishful thinkers. That goes for shorts and longs alike because, IMO, both sides are caught up in something which could have a dramatic affect on their financial futures. This is motivation enough for longs to cling to every new rumor and shorts to pound each and every positive thought right into the ground. Both sides want and need to be right. Both sides could still come out on top or lose big time.
It's time to be realistic. (That goes for me as well) WE KNOW NOTHING! Sure, we (longs) can debate what could happen and (shorts) can continue to debate what is likly to happen. The reality is NO ONE KNOWS! I'll speak for myself and then be on about my day. Here is where I have reason to believe we are with PCBM. In order of importance and IMHO:
1) Our government (SEC) needs to close it's books on its investigation and let us all know the verdict or if we will have to wait for July 2004 for this to play out.
2) Our leaders need to get their SSHIT together and PR exactly where we are and where we are going. From a business standpoint, just what is the current business plan. I have to say that no news is not good news. Not after this much time has passed and not with the daily volume being what it is. A simple PR about the share structure would speak volumes and we are entitled to know. Non-reporting to the government is one thing, Non-reporting to the shareholders is quite a different matter.
3) Mr. LoCastro still answers his phone and feeds the masses information one ear at a time. Should we be thankful or demand more. Anything said to investors on the phone means nothing and most who talk to Vince will tell you that he will tell you nothing of substance. Many people told even the same thing will misinterpret, misunderstand, miscommunicate, embellish etc. and it all means nothing.
4) PLAN B is DEAD. End of story. The reason is that those who sought to undermind it were successful and I must bow to the wishes of the majority. I'm not about being the leader of a powerful revolt. I thought folks wanted answers. Apparently most want to let this play out. That is what will happen and PLAN B will be shelved for now.
I would personally suggest that this group of longs pick a focal point and stick to it. IMHO that point is the share structure. If you call V, T, or H and chat for an hour a day and get no information it means nothing. If you call or email I suggest you demand to know where the shares are coming from. If they are willing to say that they don't know over the phone than they should be willing to say so in writing. Until this matter is resolved IMO any other information is mute.
Ask yourself this, why on God's green earth would the share structure of an organization be such a secret? Sure, maybe a year ago we may have thought that it served some grander plan. A "trap" for the shorts. IMO there is no more fundamental question than authorized and outstanding shares to ANY publicly traded company and certainly to ours. Good or bad lets have it. People's lives are in limbo and will be until this information is made public. We must clean our own house before we spend endless hours debating our enemies and call our friends to see what they have heard. That is pure BS. I don't care about anything else until I know whether dillution has taken place or not. I still think this issue is shorted massively but it may very well be deluted as well. Whats to stop management from selling their shares to shorty after deluting and walking away.
It's not a matter of whether or not you trust V, T, or H any longer. They have all the time they need to do their job but they should let us no point blank what the share structure looks like. We are the ones averaging down. It's our money and it's our company. Let's focus on one thing. SHARE STRUCTURE! It's a simple question to answer and fundimental to the outcome here. That announcement alone would clear up a great deal and put many souls at peace. Is management willfully and knowingly deceiving us and, if so, what are you willing to do about it if that truth comes out? IMO these are the question we need to be asking ourselves and discussing.
I bought more yesterday based on my belief that every dog has it's day. What are we going to do if the normal course that should have happened here was purposely severed for the greed of those entrusted to manage our company? Maybe everything is under control and maybe management has in motion a plan to make us all wealthy beyond our wildest dreams. It's time that we know the simplest of things. Those PRs that announced share retirment and a stock buyback program. If that was true and has happened we will be VERY wealthy. If, after announcing that, the opposite happened then fraud has occured. It's time to demand to know. No more double-talk. No more figuring it out for ourselves based on logic. It's time for the facts so that we can decide just what we are going to do about it.
JMHO,
Certified_Flecksman
Derf
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