"so I say TA will lose and MMs win." This is the most mis-leading statement i've ever heard The mm's "make the market", hence the name Following "TA" is basically an attempt to follow the mm's activities They aren't seperate!!!!! mm's aren't "against" you. lol This is their market that we're playing Just because someone says they use TA and get proven wrong doesn't mean "TA" is wrong. It means they didn't know how to read it I use "TA" i wasn't wrong. The rest of your post was good and interesting. Just lay off the silly statements -squ1d